Forgive my student loan!

honeysprinkles

ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!!

I worked my way through college to avoid taking on debt. You borrow money, you pay it back. You don't want that obligation, then don't take the money.

By the time I finished college I only owed $550.00. I worked my butt off to not be in debt.

And looking at the age listed on your profile (51), that explains a lot. Try graduating with only $550 in debt NOW. That's the price of ONE class at my school, and that's IF you have in-state tuition (which I do).

Take a class in Economics too while you are at it. No. Seriously.

30 years ago wages were far far lower then they are today. The cost of college 30 years ago was far less unattainable then it is today.

Yes, my Math class and lab we in state at a combined cost of 600$ (not including books and equipment) - but, 30 years ago when my mom went to a community college, her costs were much more - IF you take into account that she was only making 3.00/hour at her job, and her interest rats on her loans were MORE then they are today.

When I graduate, I will PROUDLY be debt free.

I wasn't able to take classes this semester because I couldn't afford it. So, I'm working extra overtime and odd jobs and babysitting friends kids to make extra money so that next semester I can.

It is entirely possible to graduate college with no debt.

The increase in tuition is not proportionate to the increase in wages.

"Here are three salient facts about tuition and fees. Over the last 30 years, the average sticker price at public and private American universities has accelerated upward. Since 1981 the list price level of tuition and fees has risen sixfold while the consumer price index has only increased two-and-a-half times. This fact is well-known, and it fuels much of the talk about a crisis in higher education"
http://www.forbes.com/2010/08/01/rising-cost-education-opinions-best-colleges-10-feldman-archibald_2.html

I make $7.85/hour, yet I pay no where near what your mom paid for college 30 years ago.

doorki

I think it is ridiculous that we call people with a 4 year degree "educated"... back in the early 1900's when school was hard I think that was a good use of the term. Now anyone who shows up and puts in 1/8 of the effort required can get a degree.

I believe that is an extremely unfair assessment on your part, and it legitimately offends me, and I don't even have my college degree yet. There are millions of people who are astoundingly intelligent that never stepped foot inside a university and would be considered educated. You don't need overpriced classes taught by lethargic professors on tenure to be considered "educated."

^^^^^^ THANK YOU! I have worked my *kitten* off in school for the past 6 years! But I wouldn't have traded it for anything. I am walking across that stage in May knowing that I am WELL educated from attending a reputable college. You can't assume that everyone just goes to college and half *kitten* it and earns a degree. If you did that at my college, you wouldn't pass.

Agreed. I work my *kitten* off in school.

Wait till you get a job and half your co-workers with 4 year degrees and masters degrees don't know their head from their a** you learn really quick that it doesn't make someone educated!

College teaches you more than just your course of study, it also teaches you how to approach learning, how to prioritize and how to further educate yourself. While new graduates with a four year degree may not know as much in a given field as someone who entered the field directly after high school, their upside potential and learning curve are both substantially higher.

Sounds like the type of sales pitch that put a lot of kids 40k in student loan debt. Your company could give a crap about anything but results... and if they do you would be better off working at another company. As for the cultured angle... for 40k you could travel the world and learn a lot more than any book will teach you.

I'm assuming you never went to college...?
I dont' know how traveling the world is going to teach you to be a lawyer or a doctor or a teacher or an engineer...

Times are different now. My fiances dad is a supervisor at an insurance company. He makes $80,000 a year without a college degree. He's worked there for a long time and has moved his way up.

His mom went back to school and got a master's degree in business. She was recently hired at the same company and makes $40,000 a year.

I'm not saying that to show that college isn't important, if anything I'm saying the opposite. In the past, you could get a good job without a degree... Now it's hard to get a good job even WITH a degree.

I have a bachelors degree in business management from a private school up here in Minnesota, but I own a share of a remodeling business I started with my brother when I was 18. I didn't go to college until I was 25 and it was an accelerated adult program that took two years. I paid for it out of pocket as our company was doing really well at the time and I invested my money well.

Travelling the world will not teach you how to be a doctor or a lawyer, but neither will the 20k in liberal arts classes you have to take to get a degree.... colleges say you should take those classes to be cultured, I'd rather culture myself by traveling.. make sense?

Basically if you think a degree is worth the money than you should go for it and pay for it... if you don't then don't, it's a choice people make and they should have to live with the consequences.

You are in rarefied air being that you had your own successful business when you started school. Most students don't have that. The Liberal Arts portion is partially to keep "culture" but philosophy is also part of the Liberal Arts and that teaches you how to think and get into arguments from multiple angles. That is pretty good stuff. While some of the Liberal Arts curriculum can be deemed "useless" there are other parts that can be quite useful.

AZKristi

My husband and I are living frugally and working hard so he can finish his degree with minimal debt. Why should my taxes pay for your poor choices? The reason many people are crushed by student loan debt is because they borrow more than they can ever hope to repay. Sounds like your bad...

honeysprinkles

ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!!

I worked my way through college to avoid taking on debt. You borrow money, you pay it back. You don't want that obligation, then don't take the money.

By the time I finished college I only owed $550.00. I worked my butt off to not be in debt.

And looking at the age listed on your profile (51), that explains a lot. Try graduating with only $550 in debt NOW. That's the price of ONE class at my school, and that's IF you have in-state tuition (which I do).

I think your age argument is a little silly. I paid 200 per credit 25 years ago or 600 per class. I just sucked it up and worked to minimize my debt. After rent, food, and school expenses I still ended with 15k owed.

Can you still pay $200/credit hour at that school? I would assume that rates have risen, but since I don't know where you went I can't say for sure.

lisacandoit1965

my daughter is graduating from a private college next month and will have about 30,000 in debt so for her I wish it would pass but then on the other hand what kind of responsibility is that teaching her too. She has been paying the interest on them so may not be as bad as I think.

honeysprinkles

I'm almost 27. Graduated in 2007. I'm a teacher (decidedly NOT high paying.)

I have about $25,000 left on my loans. My parents were not able to help me financially in college, but I worked and saved to get the things that loans couldn't pay for.

The thing is, even when I was 17 and still in high school, I realized I might have to take out loans to fund the full 4 year "college experience." I could have worked my way through 2 years of community college first and come out with no loans, but I CHOSE my path. Even then.

There are ways to get out of college debt free. The military (GI Bill), community college, etc. People who have this debt chose it at one point or another. If they didn't realize the financial implications of a traditional four year university going in, perhaps they weren't college material to begin with. This idea that you cannot do college without loans is a lie. My mom did it with a full time job, four kids, and a 4.0 GPA. And this was all after she turned 35. She then went back and got her Master's the same way, debt free. I don't want to hear people whine.

I will pay off all of my loans myself and not expect anyone else to do it. Hell, lots of people pay that much for a car they can only drive for ten years at best. Pay your loans and I'll pay mine.

I agree with you, and I am making a lot of the same choices (starting at a 4 year university, education major). I'm not arguing that someone should have to pay my loans back. I took them out knowing that I'd have to repay them.

pudadough

ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!!

I worked my way through college to avoid taking on debt. You borrow money, you pay it back. You don't want that obligation, then don't take the money.

By the time I finished college I only owed $550.00. I worked my butt off to not be in debt.

And looking at the age listed on your profile (51), that explains a lot. Try graduating with only $550 in debt NOW. That's the price of ONE class at my school, and that's IF you have in-state tuition (which I do).

I think your age argument is a little silly. I paid 200 per credit 25 years ago or 600 per class. I just sucked it up and worked to minimize my debt. After rent, food, and school expenses I still ended with 15k owed.

Can you still pay $200/credit hour at that school? I would assume that rates have risen, but since I don't know where you went I can't say for sure.

It's less than that at community colleges. Taking two years of community college and transferring later cuts debt drastically. Helps your final GPA in most cases, too.

pudadough

Whoops. Posted before I saw your reply about 4 years.

snewsome7

People need to understand that this is not a free write-off, welfare-based program. In order to receive forgiveness of the debt, borrowers must first make 10 years of regular payments before they are eligible for a forgiveness of the remaining amount. This bill doesn't increase taxes of affect any of you as taxpayers. Also, there are caps on the amounts that can be forgiven. But for some of us who could not earn doctoral level degrees without acquiring hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt, we need help. At current interest rates, we will NEVER, EVER pay off those debts, no matter how hard we work, or how hard we try. Both public and private universities have an almost monopoly-like power over the educational market, and so while it would have been wonderful to get 10 years of post-graduate education (to the Ph.D.) without incurring mountains of debt, it just wasn't possible. Right now, we are on the 30-year repayment plan, and the interest alone ensures that we will die long before the debt is gone. And THEN it will be forgiven anyway. Do you have a problem with letting us get a gasp or two of air before we actually die? Especially when it won't affect your individual bottom lines in any way, why begrudge us a little help? Maybe you are anti-welfare programs. Guess what: SO AM I. I strongly disapprove of programs that give money to people who do very little to contribute to society or make any efforts to help themselves. But that is not the case here. This bill requires a decade of very hard work and effort before offering some relief.

If you haven't actually READ the bill, please don't jump in with scurrilous opinions on this board--you don't know what you're saying. There are all kinds of requirements and limitations on how much can be forgiven, how soon it can be forgiven, etc. And you won't even notice as a taxpayer that this is happening. It doesn't affect your taxpayer rate AT ALL. But we who are drowning will actually have hope. Is this really a problem for you?

Well said!

honeysprinkles

To everyone saying "Not everybody can work through college to pay off their debt and graduate without a lot." Why can't you?

Seriously, since I was old enough to legally work (and before), I've not been without a job for more than 3 months. I worked in high school. I worked in college. When I dropped out, I started paying the loans I had and still kept working. I'm back now, not deferring loans, still paying on back loans, working and paying what I'm accruing as well. How are you NOT ABLE to work and pay towards stuff while you're in college?

I've worked since high school. I work now. I also pay my rent, my electricity, my cable, my water bill, my car insurance, my gas, my phone bill and my groceries. I don't have any financial support from my parents. I chose to go to a 4 year state university. I rely on loans, grants, scholarships AND my job to pay for all of that. And it's a personal choice.

I don't expect anyone to pay my loans back, but I literally could not afford to do this completely on my own.

honeysprinkles

It doesn't seem fair that I paid for my education and now you want me to help pay for yours? My kids paid for their educations with help from their employers. Why didn't you try that route? Sounds like poor planning to me.

Honestly, college is a lot more expensive now than it was whenever I assume that you went...unless you went back to school recently.

There is absolutely no way that I could afford to fully support myself financially and go to the school that I do without my job, my loans, my scholarship, and my grants. It just wouldn't be happening.

She's write. I went to school worked a part time job and walmart and a full time job at an insurance company. AND.. What do you now. I still Have 50,000 in school loans that I pay monthly. To be honest. I would much rather my tax money go to helping people pay for eduction than to help welfare who dont want to get out and work. I know there are some that cant. But if they can work they should be working.

I worked a full and part time job out of school to pay student loan debt and live and that was 20 years ago. Boo hoo. Pay your debt.

t costs WAY more to go to school now than it did 20 years ago... So I don't see what point you're trying to make with that comment?

The point is it wasn't easy 20 years ago and it's not easy now. I knew how much I would owe. So boo hoo. Pay your debt and quit whining about how hard it is.

I'm not whining. It's a fact that tuition is more expensive now. It was hard then, it's harder now. And please, come back with something better than "boo hoo" next time.

honeysprinkles

I think it is ridiculous that we call people with a 4 year degree "educated"... back in the early 1900's when school was hard I think that was a good use of the term. Now anyone who shows up and puts in 1/8 of the effort required can get a degree.

I believe that is an extremely unfair assessment on your part, and it legitimately offends me, and I don't even have my college degree yet. There are millions of people who are astoundingly intelligent that never stepped foot inside a university and would be considered educated. You don't need overpriced classes taught by lethargic professors on tenure to be considered "educated."

^^^^^^ THANK YOU! I have worked my *kitten* off in school for the past 6 years! But I wouldn't have traded it for anything. I am walking across that stage in May knowing that I am WELL educated from attending a reputable college. You can't assume that everyone just goes to college and half *kitten* it and earns a degree. If you did that at my college, you wouldn't pass.

Agreed. I work my *kitten* off in school.

Wait till you get a job and half your co-workers with 4 year degrees and masters degrees don't know their head from their a** you learn really quick that it doesn't make someone educated!

College teaches you more than just your course of study, it also teaches you how to approach learning, how to prioritize and how to further educate yourself. While new graduates with a four year degree may not know as much in a given field as someone who entered the field directly after high school, their upside potential and learning curve are both substantially higher.

Sounds like the type of sales pitch that put a lot of kids 40k in student loan debt. Your company could give a crap about anything but results... and if they do you would be better off working at another company. As for the cultured angle... for 40k you could travel the world and learn a lot more than any book will teach you.

I'm assuming you never went to college...?
I dont' know how traveling the world is going to teach you to be a lawyer or a doctor or a teacher or an engineer...

Times are different now. My fiances dad is a supervisor at an insurance company. He makes $80,000 a year without a college degree. He's worked there for a long time and has moved his way up.

His mom went back to school and got a master's degree in business. She was recently hired at the same company and makes $40,000 a year.

I'm not saying that to show that college isn't important, if anything I'm saying the opposite. In the past, you could get a good job without a degree... Now it's hard to get a good job even WITH a degree.

I have a bachelors degree in business management from a private school up here in Minnesota, but I own a share of a remodeling business I started with my brother when I was 18. I didn't go to college until I was 25 and it was an accelerated adult program that took two years. I paid for it out of pocket as our company was doing really well at the time and I invested my money well.

Travelling the world will not teach you how to be a doctor or a lawyer, but neither will the 20k in liberal arts classes you have to take to get a degree.... colleges say you should take those classes to be cultured, I'd rather culture myself by traveling.. make sense?

Basically if you think a degree is worth the money than you should go for it and pay for it... if you don't then don't, it's a choice people make and they should have to live with the consequences.

Oh okay. I get what you mean now.

sarahc001

We all make choices, and for me "do whatever you want and don't think about the consequences" has never been one of them. That includes financing education. Student loans are a serious commitment. We know what our college education costs and we are (or should be) realistic and aware of the debt we are incurring.

I had the option of attending either Stanford or UC Berkeley. I moved out of my home and was supporting myself at age 17, so you can bet cost was a huge factor in my decision to attend Cal over Stanford. Stanford does (or at least did) guarantee that you would be able to pay for their education once accepted- but that necessarily requires a huge financial aid package (read: loans.)

Instead, I opted for Cal, which was still beyond my means. However having been accepted, I was guaranteed deferred admission as a junior and able to take classes at a much less expensive community college for two years. I worked my rear end off, occasionally going up to Cal on weekends to visit my friends who were able to "afford" college right out of high school. I lived in a room off a garage with no heat and no air conditioning. The "room" was a storage closet with a window, and I could reach my hands out and touch the walls width-wise. I went into the house only to use the bathroom (conveniently located near the entrance from the garage) and cook dinner. I still remember the cost of bulk pasta, which I used to live on, at food4less (75 cents a pound in 1990.)

Two years later I started as a junior, and attended classes for a year and a half. Unfortunately, I ran out of savings, and took a semester off to work. I finished my last semester while working 7 days a week. Throughout the entire process I borrowed the minimal amount in loans that I could to get by.

I did not come out of college with a "high paying" job- I have been self employed for the last 20 years, and my business ebbs and flows. However I have made choices that resulted in the minimal amount of student loan debt, and have paid off that debt.

Sure, in other countries the residents pay higher taxes to subsidize higher education. However WE do not. And until we as a country choose to do so, students attending college are aware of the costs involved, and should make choices based on that cost. Those of us who choose to attend expensive colleges and take out loans to do so need to do so with the understanding that they are fully responsible for the money they are spending.

As several other posters have mentioned, there are ways around the "traditional" college route. Sure, you may end up working instead of joining a sorority/fraternity and partying on the weekends. It may take longer. You may need to defer a year and work/save money/attend community college/utilize the GI Bill. Or you may CHOOSE TO INCUR DEBT THAT YOU AGREE TO PAY OFF. Your choice. However we should not as a country bear the burden of that choice.

pudadough

To everyone saying "Not everybody can work through college to pay off their debt and graduate without a lot." Why can't you?

Seriously, since I was old enough to legally work (and before), I've not been without a job for more than 3 months. I worked in high school. I worked in college. When I dropped out, I started paying the loans I had and still kept working. I'm back now, not deferring loans, still paying on back loans, working and paying what I'm accruing as well. How are you NOT ABLE to work and pay towards stuff while you're in college?

I've worked since high school. I work now. I also pay my rent, my electricity, my cable, my water bill, my car insurance, my gas, my phone bill and my groceries. I don't have any financial support from my parents. I chose to go to a 4 year state university. I rely on loans, grants, scholarships AND my job to pay for all of that. And it's a personal choice.

I don't expect anyone to pay my loans back, but I literally could not afford to do this completely on my own.

See, I disagree with that. You can do it completely alone. Just not in 4 years, maybe. Lots of people go back to college while working a full-time job. One of my fellow (single) teachers is doing that to get her nursing degree. It has taken her more than 4 years, but she's doing it. My mom did it as a daycare director. Came out debt free, too.

megmo_7

Oh man you hit a topic where I can go on and on and on about. First off, for the system that we have in the US it is not worth the money they charge us. I went to school over in Ireland where my professors were well written and highly experienced in their fields. The students of that country only have to pay 1000 euros a year for school. Then another thing is the US system robbing us blind with text books. For the whole time I was there I paid no more than 100 euro on text books and material but I spend well over 800 a semester here and thats with USED books. I recieved free excellent medical care over in Europe because I was a student in their country and I am telling you what I am getting out of the hell hole that America has become especially with all these politicians trying to pass laws that goes against women's rights. RIDICULOUS. A student shouldnt have to be charged a 9% interest rate on their student loans. And for the arrogant *kitten* who said people just need to suck it up. Its hard to do when we are still working our way out of a depression and good paying jobs are hard to find.

MFPAddict

A lot of things cost more than they did 20 years ago. It is referred to as inflation.

It was a hardship for many to go to college then, just as it is now. The big difference is the unemployment rate is much higher right now.

The solution to this problem is definitely not debt forgiveness, but rather finding ways to stimulate job growth.

honeysprinkles

To everyone saying "Not everybody can work through college to pay off their debt and graduate without a lot." Why can't you?

Seriously, since I was old enough to legally work (and before), I've not been without a job for more than 3 months. I worked in high school. I worked in college. When I dropped out, I started paying the loans I had and still kept working. I'm back now, not deferring loans, still paying on back loans, working and paying what I'm accruing as well. How are you NOT ABLE to work and pay towards stuff while you're in college?

I've worked since high school. I work now. I also pay my rent, my electricity, my cable, my water bill, my car insurance, my gas, my phone bill and my groceries. I don't have any financial support from my parents. I chose to go to a 4 year state university. I rely on loans, grants, scholarships AND my job to pay for all of that. And it's a personal choice.

I don't expect anyone to pay my loans back, but I literally could not afford to do this completely on my own.

See, I disagree with that. You can do it completely alone. Just not in 4 years, maybe. Lots of people go back to college while working a full-time job. One of my fellow (single) teachers is doing that to get her nursing degree. It has taken her more than 4 years, but she's doing it. My mom did it as a daycare director. Came out debt free, too.

I meant that I could not do what I'm doing now on my own. I could live with my parents, go to community college, work full time and take fewer credits and graduate later and save a lot of money, but that's not what I'm doing. That's why I said it was a personal choice. I don't want to struggle as a minimum wage worker for any longer than I have to. I make $7.85/hour currently. I'd rather work that for 4 years and then get the job that I want (which sure, won't pay a lot, but it's certainly more than that and it's something that would make me happy) than stay there for 6 or 7 years and finish school more slowly!

doorki

A lot of things cost more than they did 20 years ago. It is referred to as inflation.

It was a hardship for many to go to college then, just as it is now. The big difference is the unemployment rate is much higher right now.

The solution to this problem is definitely not debt forgiveness, but rather finding ways to stimulate job growth.

The cost is substantially higher when adjusted for inflation but I agree that total debt forgiveness is not the answer. Oddly enough, I am a fan of state funded education but, given the current political/social climate, I fear that voters involved in college funding would retard the process.


*disclaimer - "retard" is used in the proper usage meaning to slow or be to the detriment of. No PC police please.

MrEmoticon

I think it is ridiculous that we call people with a 4 year degree "educated"... back in the early 1900's when school was hard I think that was a good use of the term. Now anyone who shows up and puts in 1/8 of the effort required can get a degree.

I believe that is an extremely unfair assessment on your part, and it legitimately offends me, and I don't even have my college degree yet. There are millions of people who are astoundingly intelligent that never stepped foot inside a university and would be considered educated. You don't need overpriced classes taught by lethargic professors on tenure to be considered "educated."

^^^^^^ THANK YOU! I have worked my *kitten* off in school for the past 6 years! But I wouldn't have traded it for anything. I am walking across that stage in May knowing that I am WELL educated from attending a reputable college. You can't assume that everyone just goes to college and half *kitten* it and earns a degree. If you did that at my college, you wouldn't pass.

Agreed. I work my *kitten* off in school.

Wait till you get a job and half your co-workers with 4 year degrees and masters degrees don't know their head from their a** you learn really quick that it doesn't make someone educated!

College teaches you more than just your course of study, it also teaches you how to approach learning, how to prioritize and how to further educate yourself. While new graduates with a four year degree may not know as much in a given field as someone who entered the field directly after high school, their upside potential and learning curve are both substantially higher.

Sounds like the type of sales pitch that put a lot of kids 40k in student loan debt. Your company could give a crap about anything but results... and if they do you would be better off working at another company. As for the cultured angle... for 40k you could travel the world and learn a lot more than any book will teach you.

I'm assuming you never went to college...?
I dont' know how traveling the world is going to teach you to be a lawyer or a doctor or a teacher or an engineer...

Times are different now. My fiances dad is a supervisor at an insurance company. He makes $80,000 a year without a college degree. He's worked there for a long time and has moved his way up.

His mom went back to school and got a master's degree in business. She was recently hired at the same company and makes $40,000 a year.

I'm not saying that to show that college isn't important, if anything I'm saying the opposite. In the past, you could get a good job without a degree... Now it's hard to get a good job even WITH a degree.

I interviewed for the job I have now against 5 people with degrees. I have none. I got the job.

It's not that it's harder, it's just that you have to prove that you can do the job just as well. I've made a good living for myself with no degree, so it's annoying to hear people say "if I don't get a degree I'll never be anything!" because I was told I'd never be anything, and now I make more than others in my family with much more 'education'.

fitforlife34

That so reminds me, I'm late on my loan. Thing is, I feel my University should pay it off, because I haven't even received my Diploma yet and I graduated! (It's been a year.) I got good grades, had good relations with my teacher mentors, and the program STILL did not let me get my teaching certificate, but kicked me out 1.5 months before graduation! saying I wouldn't be a good teacher, but discriminated against me due to my disability, which is illegal. So therefore, yes, I feel they should pay my loan off! Because a degree without a certification=no way to be a teacher, unless you go back to school for another 10k. More loans? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

AddA2UDE

If not for my student loans, I could have a really kick-*kitten*, brand new Porsche or Benz sitting in my driveway. And, to add insult to injury, everyone I work with stopped at a high school diploma but yet makes as much or more than I do. That being said, I'm still cool with paying for my own. It was my choice. Not fair to everyone else to pay for it for me (as much as I would like for them too! LOL!)

poncho33

I think it is ridiculous that we call people with a 4 year degree "educated"... back in the early 1900's when school was hard I think that was a good use of the term. Now anyone who shows up and puts in 1/8 of the effort required can get a degree.

I believe that is an extremely unfair assessment on your part, and it legitimately offends me, and I don't even have my college degree yet. There are millions of people who are astoundingly intelligent that never stepped foot inside a university and would be considered educated. You don't need overpriced classes taught by lethargic professors on tenure to be considered "educated."

^^^^^^ THANK YOU! I have worked my *kitten* off in school for the past 6 years! But I wouldn't have traded it for anything. I am walking across that stage in May knowing that I am WELL educated from attending a reputable college. You can't assume that everyone just goes to college and half *kitten* it and earns a degree. If you did that at my college, you wouldn't pass.

Agreed. I work my *kitten* off in school.

Wait till you get a job and half your co-workers with 4 year degrees and masters degrees don't know their head from their a** you learn really quick that it doesn't make someone educated!

College teaches you more than just your course of study, it also teaches you how to approach learning, how to prioritize and how to further educate yourself. While new graduates with a four year degree may not know as much in a given field as someone who entered the field directly after high school, their upside potential and learning curve are both substantially higher.

Sounds like the type of sales pitch that put a lot of kids 40k in student loan debt. Your company could give a crap about anything but results... and if they do you would be better off working at another company. As for the cultured angle... for 40k you could travel the world and learn a lot more than any book will teach you.

I'm assuming you never went to college...?
I dont' know how traveling the world is going to teach you to be a lawyer or a doctor or a teacher or an engineer...

Times are different now. My fiances dad is a supervisor at an insurance company. He makes $80,000 a year without a college degree. He's worked there for a long time and has moved his way up.

His mom went back to school and got a master's degree in business. She was recently hired at the same company and makes $40,000 a year.

I'm not saying that to show that college isn't important, if anything I'm saying the opposite. In the past, you could get a good job without a degree... Now it's hard to get a good job even WITH a degree.

I have a bachelors degree in business management from a private school up here in Minnesota, but I own a share of a remodeling business I started with my brother when I was 18. I didn't go to college until I was 25 and it was an accelerated adult program that took two years. I paid for it out of pocket as our company was doing really well at the time and I invested my money well.

Travelling the world will not teach you how to be a doctor or a lawyer, but neither will the 20k in liberal arts classes you have to take to get a degree.... colleges say you should take those classes to be cultured, I'd rather culture myself by traveling.. make sense?

Basically if you think a degree is worth the money than you should go for it and pay for it... if you don't then don't, it's a choice people make and they should have to live with the consequences.

You are in rarefied air being that you had your own successful business when you started school. Most students don't have that. The Liberal Arts portion is partially to keep "culture" but philosophy is also part of the Liberal Arts and that teaches you how to think and get into arguments from multiple angles. That is pretty good stuff. While some of the Liberal Arts curriculum can be deemed "useless" there are other parts that can be quite useful.

I did start college in a good position, but the reason I didn't go until 25 is because I couldn't afford it... to be honest it would have been a waist at that time for me for me to go earlier, as building our business, chasing girls, and playing hockey were more of a priority at the time. I can see how there is a point in teaching liberal arts to 18 year old kids, but to be honest I graduated 2 years ago and don't remember any of it... but I paid for it!

fitforlife34

It doesn't seem fair that I paid for my education and now you want me to help pay for yours? My kids paid for their educations with help from their employers. Why didn't you try that route? Sounds like poor planning to me.

That's unfair. Many people who've graduated within the last few years can't find a job to take that route or to even begin paying off their loans. Additionally, many kids enroll in college with the expectation that they will be able to get a job upon graduation because that's what we've always been told, only to find out that that's not so true anymore after they've already graduated and taken out a bunch of loans. However, I agree with your general point.

I agree with you NorthernBelle. And also, having credit card debt AND school loan debt, and rent, food, gas etc can alsmost seem insurmountable sdometimes.

CBranson0503

No one forces anyone to take a loan for anything. It is a personal descision that you make and therefore it should be a personal responsibilty to pay it back.
Not to mention, there are TONS of grants and scholarships out there to help pay for college. If fact, the less money you make, the more help there is out there.

doorki

I think it is ridiculous that we call people with a 4 year degree "educated"... back in the early 1900's when school was hard I think that was a good use of the term. Now anyone who shows up and puts in 1/8 of the effort required can get a degree.

I believe that is an extremely unfair assessment on your part, and it legitimately offends me, and I don't even have my college degree yet. There are millions of people who are astoundingly intelligent that never stepped foot inside a university and would be considered educated. You don't need overpriced classes taught by lethargic professors on tenure to be considered "educated."

^^^^^^ THANK YOU! I have worked my *kitten* off in school for the past 6 years! But I wouldn't have traded it for anything. I am walking across that stage in May knowing that I am WELL educated from attending a reputable college. You can't assume that everyone just goes to college and half *kitten* it and earns a degree. If you did that at my college, you wouldn't pass.

Agreed. I work my *kitten* off in school.

Wait till you get a job and half your co-workers with 4 year degrees and masters degrees don't know their head from their a** you learn really quick that it doesn't make someone educated!

College teaches you more than just your course of study, it also teaches you how to approach learning, how to prioritize and how to further educate yourself. While new graduates with a four year degree may not know as much in a given field as someone who entered the field directly after high school, their upside potential and learning curve are both substantially higher.

Sounds like the type of sales pitch that put a lot of kids 40k in student loan debt. Your company could give a crap about anything but results... and if they do you would be better off working at another company. As for the cultured angle... for 40k you could travel the world and learn a lot more than any book will teach you.

I'm assuming you never went to college...?
I dont' know how traveling the world is going to teach you to be a lawyer or a doctor or a teacher or an engineer...

Times are different now. My fiances dad is a supervisor at an insurance company. He makes $80,000 a year without a college degree. He's worked there for a long time and has moved his way up.

His mom went back to school and got a master's degree in business. She was recently hired at the same company and makes $40,000 a year.

I'm not saying that to show that college isn't important, if anything I'm saying the opposite. In the past, you could get a good job without a degree... Now it's hard to get a good job even WITH a degree.

I have a bachelors degree in business management from a private school up here in Minnesota, but I own a share of a remodeling business I started with my brother when I was 18. I didn't go to college until I was 25 and it was an accelerated adult program that took two years. I paid for it out of pocket as our company was doing really well at the time and I invested my money well.

Travelling the world will not teach you how to be a doctor or a lawyer, but neither will the 20k in liberal arts classes you have to take to get a degree.... colleges say you should take those classes to be cultured, I'd rather culture myself by traveling.. make sense?

Basically if you think a degree is worth the money than you should go for it and pay for it... if you don't then don't, it's a choice people make and they should have to live with the consequences.

You are in rarefied air being that you had your own successful business when you started school. Most students don't have that. The Liberal Arts portion is partially to keep "culture" but philosophy is also part of the Liberal Arts and that teaches you how to think and get into arguments from multiple angles. That is pretty good stuff. While some of the Liberal Arts curriculum can be deemed "useless" there are other parts that can be quite useful.

I did start college in a good position, but the reason I didn't go until 25 is because I couldn't afford it... to be honest it would have been a waist at that time for me for me to go earlier, as building our business, chasing girls, and playing hockey were more of a priority at the time. I can see how there is a point in teaching liberal arts to 18 year old kids, but to be honest I graduated 2 years ago and don't remember any of it... but I paid for it!

I can respect that. I started college at 17 and was not mature enough for it. Took a year off after Freshman year and then ran out of money with four electives left. Going back later, after having been in the "real world" put the workload of the classes in to perspective.

I agree that some liberal arts requirements should be, for lack of a better word, forgiven for older students but I think that is more of an issue with the adult education system.

CBranson0503

Also, I think for a lot of people college is a waste of time. Some people are better off either entering the workforce right after high school or going to a trade school these days.
Also, I think your senior year of high school should consist of multiple two week internships in different fields so that kids would have a better understanding of what they want to do if or when they go to college.

doorki

Also, I think for a lot of people college is a waste of time. Some people are better off either entering the workforce right after high school or going to a trade school these days.
Also, I think your senior year of high school should consist of multiple two week internships in different fields so that kids would have a better understanding of what they want to do if or when they go to college.

Drexel has a program like this...I hear it is quite successful.

honeysprinkles

I think it is ridiculous that we call people with a 4 year degree "educated"... back in the early 1900's when school was hard I think that was a good use of the term. Now anyone who shows up and puts in 1/8 of the effort required can get a degree.

I believe that is an extremely unfair assessment on your part, and it legitimately offends me, and I don't even have my college degree yet. There are millions of people who are astoundingly intelligent that never stepped foot inside a university and would be considered educated. You don't need overpriced classes taught by lethargic professors on tenure to be considered "educated."

^^^^^^ THANK YOU! I have worked my *kitten* off in school for the past 6 years! But I wouldn't have traded it for anything. I am walking across that stage in May knowing that I am WELL educated from attending a reputable college. You can't assume that everyone just goes to college and half *kitten* it and earns a degree. If you did that at my college, you wouldn't pass.

Agreed. I work my *kitten* off in school.

Wait till you get a job and half your co-workers with 4 year degrees and masters degrees don't know their head from their a** you learn really quick that it doesn't make someone educated!

College teaches you more than just your course of study, it also teaches you how to approach learning, how to prioritize and how to further educate yourself. While new graduates with a four year degree may not know as much in a given field as someone who entered the field directly after high school, their upside potential and learning curve are both substantially higher.

Sounds like the type of sales pitch that put a lot of kids 40k in student loan debt. Your company could give a crap about anything but results... and if they do you would be better off working at another company. As for the cultured angle... for 40k you could travel the world and learn a lot more than any book will teach you.

I'm assuming you never went to college...?
I dont' know how traveling the world is going to teach you to be a lawyer or a doctor or a teacher or an engineer...

Times are different now. My fiances dad is a supervisor at an insurance company. He makes $80,000 a year without a college degree. He's worked there for a long time and has moved his way up.

His mom went back to school and got a master's degree in business. She was recently hired at the same company and makes $40,000 a year.

I'm not saying that to show that college isn't important, if anything I'm saying the opposite. In the past, you could get a good job without a degree... Now it's hard to get a good job even WITH a degree.

I interviewed for the job I have now against 5 people with degrees. I have none. I got the job.

It's not that it's harder, it's just that you have to prove that you can do the job just as well. I've made a good living for myself with no degree, so it's annoying to hear people say "if I don't get a degree I'll never be anything!" because I was told I'd never be anything, and now I make more than others in my family with much more 'education'.

It all depends on your field.

emr0004

For those of you who are against it, WHY are you against it? Is it because you think it's unfair that you had to pay yours off? Student loan debt has gone up 511% since 1999...why should WE (and I say "we" meaning those who have graduated in recent years, say the last 5) have to pay 511% more for the SAME degrees the people who graduated before 1999 got?. I graduated with my Bachelor's AND Masters in less than 5 years, and my loans cost me 600$/month. The bill says that for those of us who "make payments of 10% of our discretionary income for 10 years, the remaining debt will be forgiven". I am set up on a 10 year plan because of outrageous interest rates. So if I only have 3-5,000$ left of student loans to pay after 10 years, they shouldn't be forgiven? For those of you who graduated BEFORE 1999, how much did YOUR loans cost? Let's compare. And don't get me started on the job market. The economy is slowly sinking, and we are being punished double time by paying incredible amounts of money for college and then not being able to find jobs in our fields.

And for those of you who worked during college, awesome, I did too, but I didn't work enough to survive (and if I did, I would've never went to class). If you saved before college, awesome, some of us didn't so much. Some people don't have that mindset.

Tell me, how is this any different than paying for people on welfare? You cannot deny there are many people (probably the majority) who don't need it; they're just lazy. I understand that times are hard. I won't discredit those who really need it. But there are people who have 47 (exaggeration) kids just to live off the govt. What about those of us who work HARD...we pay taxes too and are STILL in this boat. Truth is, you don't know EXACTLY where your tax money goes. It goes to welfare, pork projects, and paying our govt officials. Why not help out those who've paved a path for themselves? Put yourselves in our shoes. Don't be selfish. This plan is to try to HELP people.

Here's more, in case you want to educate yourself further.

http://hansenclarke.house.gov/sites/hansenclarke.house.gov/files/documents/10-10 Plan FAQs.pdf

http://hansenclarke.house.gov/sites/hansenclarke.house.gov/files/documents/1-pager SLFA.pdf

fitforlife34

I still owe so much. I would love to not have to pay it back; however, it's not fair to the taxpayers to pay for part of my education.

I agree with you cabaray. But then again....what's not fair is for our tax money to go to social security for people with "disabilities" who use that money to buy Fendi bags or other things. For example, my friend diagnosed bipolar, no job, on SSI, is able to get her hair and nails done frequently, buy designer bags. while people like me, who have same thing, work a full time job, overtime, to pay my bills. And don't rely on taxpayers money. but yeah, i see where yu are coming from.