My stats for a week. Am I doing enough?

HappilyLifts

Reality-wise her TDEE is more than that, those estimates generally seem to be low, as she'll discover when weight loss is more than math would say.

TDEE 2269 if moderately active figure, that is goal weight TDEE from the fat2fit method she did. Current weight TDEE is probably more around 2722 daily burn.

Now this is where I get confused. I was listening to one of the fat2fit podcasts and it also suggested you could plug in your current (undesired) weight as your goal weight. I can't remember why they suggested doing this, but reading your point above reminded me of that option.

So current TDEE 2722
Avg eat 2154 (hopefully working up to 2200)

Avg deficit - 569

So that is the deficit aspect, and is about 1lb a week, anything more than this regularly lost means her TDEE is in reality higher. If less than that, it's harder to say, because with exercise and eating enough come body improvements that add on LBM, not fat. So fat is still dropping while that is going up.

What is LBM?

Also, while it has crossed my mind, still a little confused as you can tell, does the moderate acitivity TDEE include a deficit of 500 calories that I would eat, as well as a deficit for the 3-5 days exercise? i.e. enough to drop 2lbs per week (7000 calorie deficit per week)?

So above the BMR she was wanting to be above so metabolism is as high as possible.

Exactly. Not interested in losing muscle just so that I see a lower number on the scale. Only interested in fat loss and muscle gain :-)

HappilyLifts

well, here I am after my meeting with the trainer, a little update (I really should keep a blog!)

She reckons she can see significant strength gains since we last met at the beginning of March. I guess she's right. I've gone from doing side planks on my knees to side planks on my heels with rotations! Super excited, never dreamed I would be doing 6 of these on each side! :bigsmile:

Here's my new program:
Monday and Wednesdays:

cross trainer - tabata training for 4 minutes, shifting up one resistance level

arm cycler - 5 minutes with alternate had positions, level 3

stationary bike - 8 minutes, climbing a hill through levels 5 to 8, a minute at each level and two minutes at the top and then back down again

exercises on a foam roller - tricep extensions 3kg weights, 3 sets of 12, and chest press with 4kg weights, 3 sets of 12. Alternate with no rests

balanced on two little balance pods - lateral raises with 2kg weights, 3 sets of 12, and bicep curls with 3kg weights, 3 sets of 12. Alternate with no rests.

Plank, but this time moving my each foot out to the side alternately. As many as I can manage with good form.
Side plank, with rotation. Work up from 6 rotations.
Superman, with arms extended instead of touching ears.

Lunges onto a box with knee raise. 2 sets of 12 with no rest, alternating with:
Squats with a front raise of 2kg weights. 2 sets of 12.

Fridays:
as above but cross trainer moves away from tabata training, instead I will do a minute at levels 5 and 6 with arms, a minute each at levels 7, 8 and 9 with no arms, and then repeat until I get back down to level 5 (about 10 minutes)

stepper - 3 minutes level 5 (first time I've tried this. Total killer!)

If I want to stay active on Tuesdays and Thursdays she recommends pilates or yoga, or I can do my Turbofire or other DVDs. Weekends are rest days.

Cleared up a few queries I had about my HRM saying my max heart rate registers at 183 when I'm doing tabata stuff and about whether to workout 5 days a week when thigh muscles are still burning.

If my weight and inches don't change in 6 weeks time she wants to go over my nutrition with me.

That's it...oh, and I love her - her eyes popped when I told her I was 43. She thought I was about 35. Made my day :laugh:

So all that's to be done is knuckle down, keep number crunching and hopefully report back with some noticeable progress in 6 weeks time (beyond my strength improvements).

heybales

Now this is where I get confused. I was listening to one of the fat2fit podcasts and it also suggested you could plug in your current (undesired) weight as your goal weight. I can't remember why they suggested doing this, but reading your point above reminded me of that option.

What is LBM?

Also, while it has crossed my mind, still a little confused as you can tell, does the moderate acitivity TDEE include a deficit of 500 calories that I would eat, as well as a deficit for the 3-5 days exercise? i.e. enough to drop 2lbs per week (7000 calorie deficit per week)?

Exactly. Not interested in losing muscle just so that I see a lower number on the scale. Only interested in fat loss and muscle gain :-)

Correct, current weight as goal weight on fat2fit means you get current weight TDEE. Minus goal weight TDEE, means deficit being done. Underestimated in every case I've seen, as your real TDEE is higher than estimated.

LBM - Lean Body Mass, non-fat - bones, water, muscles, ect.

That fat2fit method includes a deficit that is wise enough to keep you above your BMR on avg. You won't know what the true deficit is until you lose regularly, and even that won't be correct because you are adding good things while loosing the fat.
Because dropping 2 lbs weekly may not be realistic for extended period of time. Probably could be accomplished until metabolism slowed it down to or below what you would have gotten anyway, but then slower then needed.
Don't recall if you said you used the bodyfat% in the fat2fit - but you should. Makes it more correct.
That being said, probably will be close to 2lbs of fat anyway, even if scale only showed drops of 1-1.5 lbs.

heybales

Here's my new program:
Monday and Wednesdays:

cross trainer - tabata training for 4 minutes, shifting up one resistance level

arm cycler - 5 minutes with alternate had positions, level 3

stationary bike - 8 minutes, climbing a hill through levels 5 to 8, a minute at each level and two minutes at the top and then back down again

exercises on a foam roller - tricep extensions 3kg weights, 3 sets of 12, and chest press with 4kg weights, 3 sets of 12. Alternate with no rests

balanced on two little balance pods - lateral raises with 2kg weights, 3 sets of 12, and bicep curls with 3kg weights, 3 sets of 12. Alternate with no rests.

Plank, but this time moving my each foot out to the side alternately. As many as I can manage with good form.
Side plank, with rotation. Work up from 6 rotations.
Superman, with arms extended instead of touching ears.

Lunges onto a box with knee raise. 2 sets of 12 with no rest, alternating with:
Squats with a front raise of 2kg weights. 2 sets of 12.

Fridays:
as above but cross trainer moves away from tabata training, instead I will do a minute at levels 5 and 6 with arms, a minute each at levels 7, 8 and 9 with no arms, and then repeat until I get back down to level 5 (about 10 minutes)

stepper - 3 minutes level 5 (first time I've tried this. Total killer!)

If I want to stay active on Tuesdays and Thursdays she recommends pilates or yoga, or I can do my Turbofire or other DVDs. Weekends are rest days.

Cleared up a few queries I had about my HRM saying my max heart rate registers at 183 when I'm doing tabata stuff and about whether to workout 5 days a week when thigh muscles are still burning.

HRM - if you've seen 183 and didn't have to stop immediately, your max HR is higher. And that being incorrect as a stat in your HRM means calorie burn estimates are over-inflated. And since you are correctly eating them back, that should be corrected.
On your personal stat setting page, find the max HR value (probably 220-age), and set it to 185 at least. Women have the most inaccuracies possible on max HR stat and calc's. Though mine is way off too. Tested 194, and at 43, would be 177 by calc, which is probably where your's is too.

If muscles are sore on in-between days, very slow cardio is in order, or yoga as suggested. I'd still walk to get some blood flow into area.

I'd say put a rest day opposite the other one though, so Sat rest after that harder Fri, and Tue. Make Sun a harder cardio session of something you enjoy. Not interval style since you'll do that on Monday already, but higher sustained intensity, like 150 HR. That way you are using this newer stronger muscle with something longer and harder, and after a rest day, so it'll feel great then.

Personal opinion, based on some logic.
Now, I've always wondered why some workout programs with supposedly a focus on weight loss assistance, also seem to focus on improving the muscle least likely to help in that effort.
Muscle burns fat 24x7, slightly more cal's than fat when at rest, but when used, much more of course.
What muscle is going to burn more and be used more - the biggest muscle groups. So does that mean your tricep, or hamstring? Bicep, or quad?
Just seems to be a lot of focus in those workouts on NOT the biggest muscle groups. Meaning if you only have 45 min available, why not get the most bang for the buck.
At the start it's fine to get an overall strengthening goal accomplished, but then, for a little while, it really helps to get the biggest muscles strong and burning, assist fat burning, and then move back to the smaller muscles.
For instance triceps for flabby arms won't do any good if muscle is hidden by fat on top, still flabby. And if time/energy taken to do triceps could have been spent doing bigger muscles (chest which works the tri's anyway), then fat would be burned off quicker, and it still gets a workout too.

Just saying, for upper body, bent over rows, bench press, will work tri's and bi's automatically, and the bigger muscle too. Add in military press and lat pull-down, you just did them again, and bigger muscles. 4 big muscles on upper body.
On lower, squats are great for getting glute and quad, but I'd get hamstrings in there too.

The superman for back is worked in squats already. planks is such a little muscle, do a little time there and give some to ham's. Forget the arm cycle time and add in bench. Skip foam roller and balance.

Just thoughts for the future. Because the balancing stuff and core will be so much easier with less weight to carry around, and they don't really cause a great workout for calorie burn.

HappilyLifts

Now this is where I get confused. I was listening to one of the fat2fit podcasts and it also suggested you could plug in your current (undesired) weight as your goal weight. I can't remember why they suggested doing this, but reading your point above reminded me of that option.

What is LBM?

Also, while it has crossed my mind, still a little confused as you can tell, does the moderate acitivity TDEE include a deficit of 500 calories that I would eat, as well as a deficit for the 3-5 days exercise? i.e. enough to drop 2lbs per week (7000 calorie deficit per week)?

Exactly. Not interested in losing muscle just so that I see a lower number on the scale. Only interested in fat loss and muscle gain :-)

Correct, current weight as goal weight on fat2fit means you get current weight TDEE. Minus goal weight TDEE, means deficit being done. Underestimated in every case I've seen, as your real TDEE is higher than estimated.

LBM - Lean Body Mass, non-fat - bones, water, muscles, ect.

That fat2fit method includes a deficit that is wise enough to keep you above your BMR on avg. You won't know what the true deficit is until you lose regularly, and even that won't be correct because you are adding good things while loosing the fat.
Because dropping 2 lbs weekly may not be realistic for extended period of time. Probably could be accomplished until metabolism slowed it down to or below what you would have gotten anyway, but then slower then needed.
Don't recall if you said you used the bodyfat% in the fat2fit - but you should. Makes it more correct.
That being said, probably will be close to 2lbs of fat anyway, even if scale only showed drops of 1-1.5 lbs.

thanks for clearing up those queries. So, if I understand this correctly, is I find the difference between the TDEEs based on my current weight and on my goal weight, that will tell me my calorie defecit for the day? Not sure that I've understood it still, but it doesn't matter too much. There must be an easier way to figure out how many calories to eat LOL.

I discovered that my bathroom scales can read body fat percentage. Wish I hadn't looked (39.8% ugh!)

HappilyLifts

HRM - if you've seen 183 and didn't have to stop immediately, your max HR is higher.

Yes, it must be, I felt challenged but not like I was going to faint or anything

And that being incorrect as a stat in your HRM means calorie burn estimates are over-inflated.

that's a shame! I quite like recording a burn in excess of 500 each time I go to the gym!

And since you are correctly eating them back, that should be corrected.
On your personal stat setting page, find the max HR value (probably 220-age), and set it to 185 at least.

I did that a few weeks ago, but I didn't really think about the effect this would have on calorie burn estimates at the time.

Women have the most inaccuracies possible on max HR stat and calc's. Though mine is way off too. Tested 194, and at 43, would be 177 by calc, which is probably where your's is too.

thanks that's interesting. So I could set my HRM to that figure and get a more accurate calorie burn estimate?

If muscles are sore on in-between days, very slow cardio is in order, or yoga as suggested. I'd still walk to get some blood flow into area.

I'd say put a rest day opposite the other one though, so Sat rest after that harder Fri, and Tue. Make Sun a harder cardio session of something you enjoy. Not interval style since you'll do that on Monday already, but higher sustained intensity, like 150 HR. That way you are using this newer stronger muscle with something longer and harder, and after a rest day, so it'll feel great then.

thanks, something to consider. Might have to persuade the husband to do a bike ride or something. I suffer enough guilt for the time I spend during the week away from home (not that I should feel guilty!)

Personal opinion, based on some logic.
Now, I've always wondered why some workout programs with supposedly a focus on weight loss assistance, also seem to focus on improving the muscle least likely to help in that effort.
Muscle burns fat 24x7, slightly more cal's than fat when at rest, but when used, much more of course.
What muscle is going to burn more and be used more - the biggest muscle groups. So does that mean your tricep, or hamstring? Bicep, or quad?

yes, I can see what you are saying, there's alot of upper body, small muscle group sets there.

Just seems to be a lot of focus in those workouts on NOT the biggest muscle groups. Meaning if you only have 45 min available, why not get the most bang for the buck.

The Friday cross trainer session was supposed to be a focus on the quads (these count as big muscles right?) as well as cardio.

At the start it's fine to get an overall strengthening goal accomplished, but then, for a little while, it really helps to get the biggest muscles strong and burning, assist fat burning, and then move back to the smaller muscles.

I will go Google and educate myself on the big muscle groups and see what I can think about changing.

For instance triceps for flabby arms won't do any good if muscle is hidden by fat on top, still flabby. And if time/energy taken to do triceps could have been spent doing bigger muscles (chest which works the tri's anyway), then fat would be burned off quicker, and it still gets a workout too.

Just saying, for upper body, bent over rows, bench press

does a chest press on the foam roller work the same muscles? At the moment I'm not ready to step into the area of the gym that has the benches and barbells etc. I will, one day, just not yet.

will work tri's and bi's automatically, and the bigger muscle too. Add in military press

Ah, Googled that, I have been doing military presses since the beginning of March, I just didn't know they were called that!

and lat pull-down, you just did them again, and bigger muscles. 4 big muscles on upper body.

Not tried that one yet. I was under the impression that it was better to do body weight exercises than use the machines (like lat pull down) because body weight exercises would use more muscles and work the core better?

On lower, squats are great for getting glute and quad, but I'd get hamstrings in there too.

how would I do that (get the hams involved too)?

The superman for back is worked in squats already. planks is such a little muscle, do a little time there and give some to ham's. Forget the arm cycle time

I don't think I'll stick with that one for long (it was for the cardio aspect) as it's a bit dull!

and add in bench. Skip foam roller and balance.

I think I might stick with those, it's only for 4 weeks and it makes a nice change from what I was doing before, but it's something I could be doing at home at the weekend instead of in the gym.

Just thoughts for the future.

and all appreciated. I'm on a steep learning curve and it's great!

Because the balancing stuff and core will be so much easier with less weight to carry around

and how I wish that day will hurry up and come :laugh:

Thanks for such detailed replies, I really appreciate the time you took to do that. Now to post this reply and hope that I've got all the html in the right places so that it's clear who has said what :laugh:

heybales

thanks for clearing up those queries. So, if I understand this correctly, is I find the difference between the TDEEs based on my current weight and on my goal weight, that will tell me my calorie defecit for the day? Not sure that I've understood it still, but it doesn't matter too much. There must be an easier way to figure out how many calories to eat LOL.

I discovered that my bathroom scales can read body fat percentage. Wish I hadn't looked (39.8% ugh!)

That subtraction has nothing to do with daily goal to eat. You already got that when you punched in goal weight correctly.

The above routine is merely if you must know what the deficit looks like it could be. What to expect for loss. And it is underestimated, usually.

If it isn't morning with normal hydration level following a rest day, that is very inaccurate estimate of bf% from scale. While it's accuracy is always suspect, consistency can be decent depending on your ability to keep things consistent, and then it can tell you a direction at least.

heybales

thanks that's interesting. So I could set my HRM to that figure and get a more accurate calorie burn estimate?

It would be. And if you ever see a higher value, add another 5.

thanks, something to consider. Might have to persuade the husband to do a bike ride or something. I suffer enough guilt for the time I spend during the week away from home (not that I should feel guilty!)

Just don't tire him out too quickly.

I will go Google and educate myself on the big muscle groups and see what I can think about changing.

Exercise for any type of muscle and effort. The big ones stand out.
http://www.exrx.net/Lists/WtFemale.html

Not tried that one yet. I was under the impression that it was better to do body weight exercises than use the machines (like lat pull down) because body weight exercises would use more muscles and work the core better?

how would I do that (get the hams involved too)?

Lat pulldown is about the only good one to focus on that main muscle, but actually dumbbells require more balance and engagement of other muscles to stay steady, the core. Better than body weight, which could actually be about impossible for many.

Ham's are best done on a machine too, otherwise the straight-legged deadlift is a bit too advanced. Check out link above for them.

sherronh

I would say you have to right mind set. The only thing I wouldnt do is eat processed foods just to get to my calorie goal. Weight loss is great but keep a mind on your health. The less you have these things the less you will crave them and get into the grove of not having them.

Other options would be whole grains, which arent always low cal

Also goods with good fats like avacodo.

Janelle_marie777

Hi! So, I have found a HUGE great tip....6 glasses of water is not enough for you...You should be drinking 1/2 your body weight in oz of water. if you are 205, that would be 1-2.5 oz per day)This has really helped me...AND if you insist on drinking coffee, add more water because coffee takes away the hydration that you have worked so hard to build up. Build up on your protein as well...I have been doing high protein and high fiber foods and snacks and sticking with lower calories, (I am on a 1200 calorie diet, but am able to get all of my proteins and fibers and nutrients every couple of hours, so I don't get hungry. ) but eating every couple of hours to keep my metabolism going. It has worked so far! 16 lbs down, and ...A LOT to go! Good Luck!

HappilyLifts

I discovered that my bathroom scales can read body fat percentage. Wish I hadn't looked (39.8% ugh!)

If it isn't morning with normal hydration level following a rest day, that is very inaccurate estimate of bf% from scale. While it's accuracy is always suspect, consistency can be decent depending on your ability to keep things consistent, and then it can tell you a direction at least.

funnily enough, I just read your post Setup Polar HRM for more accurate calorie burn for known BMR and used the links. I got a covert bailey fat % of 32.5
I'll continue to use the scales to give me an indication of if body fat is going down. Good idea.

HappilyLifts

I would say you have to right mind set. The only thing I wouldnt do is eat processed foods just to get to my calorie goal. Weight loss is great but keep a mind on your health. The less you have these things the less you will crave them and get into the grove of not having them.

Other options would be whole grains, which arent always low cal

Also goods with good fats like avacodo.

that's good advice, thanks. I've never tried an avocado. I'll have to do more Googling on how to eat one, and whether you eat it on its own or with something else!

HappilyLifts

Hi! So, I have found a HUGE great tip....6 glasses of water is not enough for you...You should be drinking 1/2 your body weight in oz of water. if you are 205, that would be 1-2.5 oz per day)

I admit that last year I was barely drinking one glass, so 6 glasses still seems alot to me, I have a long way to go, but I'm working on it :-) I take a water bottle almost everywhere with me now and am trying to get into the routine of a glass of water first thing in the morning before my coffee

This has really helped me...AND if you insist on drinking coffee, add more water because coffee takes away the hydration that you have worked so hard to build up.

ok, I'll bear that in mind. More water, less coffee :-)

Build up on your protein as well...I have been doing high protein and high fiber foods and snacks and sticking with lower calories, (I am on a 1200 calorie diet, but am able to get all of my proteins and fibers and nutrients every couple of hours, so I don't get hungry. ) but eating every couple of hours to keep my metabolism going. It has worked so far! 16 lbs down, and ...A LOT to go! Good Luck!

congrats on your success! I like to eat little and often too. I am also working on increasing my protein. I don't enjoy most protein foods but I am starting to include more of them anyway, plus I am getting in some protein shakes or bars. If I didn't do that I'd really struggle with protein intake! I almost always exceed MFP's fibre recommendation. That's not difficult, I like fruits and veggies :-)

HappilyLifts

Exercise for any type of muscle and effort. The big ones stand out.
http://www.exrx.net/Lists/WtFemale.html

that's an amazing website! One for another day I think, I'm all researched out :laugh:

heybales

but eating every couple of hours to keep my metabolism going.

Just so you know, that is a fallacy. Study after study has proven that is not true.

While it may help you personally not get hungry so much you blow it at the next meal, and that may be more a problem of eating too many carbs still causing you low blood sugar leaving you feeling hungry, or just undereating too much (but that will go away eventually if you fight through your body signals).

You expend the same amount of energy to process food in either 6 meals a day or 2 meals a day. And actually, if you take into effect the insulin response after eating leaving you in fat storage mode for a period of time - more meals is worse overall. Unless it keeps you from splurging at next meal because of being overly hungry.

And frankly, if your body is getting calories below what it would like to expend on metabolism - you aren't going to get it to artificially raise anyway, there's no energy left to do so. Your body has already had to slow down functions to deal with not enough energy. I say that because 1200 goal is not best for about 95% of women. it can work, slowly, just not best, if the goal is speedy weight loss anyway.

Might read OP to see what choccieaddict is trying to accomplish.

HappilyLifts

but eating every couple of hours to keep my metabolism going.

Just so you know, that is a fallacy. Study after study has proven that is not true.

While it may help you personally not get hungry so much you blow it at the next meal, and that may be more a problem of eating too many carbs still causing you low blood sugar leaving you feeling hungry, or just undereating too much (but that will go away eventually if you fight through your body signals).

You expend the same amount of energy to process food in either 6 meals a day or 2 meals a day. And actually, if you take into effect the insulin response after eating leaving you in fat storage mode for a period of time - more meals is worse overall. Unless it keeps you from splurging at next meal because of being overly hungry.

And frankly, if your body is getting calories below what it would like to expend on metabolism - you aren't going to get it to artificially raise anyway, there's no energy left to do so. Your body has already had to slow down functions to deal with not enough energy. I say that because 1200 goal is not best for about 95% of women. it can work, slowly, just not best, if the goal is speedy weight loss anyway.

Might read OP to see what choccieaddict is trying to accomplish.

and the learning curve continues....
What I'd love to accomplish is n outwardly noticable drop in body fat. I'm scared of cancer and diabetes (both are in the family history) so I want to lose fat for health reasons. I don't want to be labelled obese and with a high BMI anymore. For purely vanity reasons I want to see a different shape in the mirror. If the scales registered a big difference that would be good, but I now know not all progress is reflected on the scales. I also want to see muscles. I don't want much do I?