Eating MFP calorie goal plus exercise calories - not losing

Anita672 · April 2012

Sorry - someone asked me how long I've been eating back my exercise calories and it has been 2 weeks. But since I've seen a slight gain I am admittedly panicking.

In terms of exercise, I am going to run a 5 k in June so I am on a running program 3 days a week. Other days I do 30 - 45 min walking/stairs intervals or 60 min elliptical or 60 min treadmill brisk walking.

Exercise is not my thing so I am really proud of me doing this consistently but this is new for me as I generally was relying on calories to promote weight loss and when I did exercise, I did not eat back the calories.

kelsully · April 2012

I have not read all the way to the last response but I didn't notice how long you have been eating at this new target. Sometimes it takes a bit of adjustment for your body. If it has been less than a month I say give it a month....at that point there are lots of way to mess with the numbers to find something that works...ie setting your goal to maintenance of your goal weight...

deksgrl · April 2012

I am about the same height and weight as you are, but a bit older. I have had to play around with the number of calories I am eating, to dial it in to where it is working for me. I started at 1200, and I did lose a few pounds initially, but then I stopped losing after a couple of weeks, and I was pretty miserable. So I upped it to 1400 and then 1800. But 1800 was too much because I was overestimating my exercise burns I believe. I bumped it back to 1633, and I lost 1.1 pounds in a week which was the biggest loss in a week I have had since I started in November. I target 1633 a day, and I don't eat back exercise calories. This is the number I got from here:

http://www.fat2fitradio.com/tools/bmr/

Do figure out your body fat % and enter it into that calculator, then when you get the results, scroll down to the chart which shows what your maintenance calories should be at your goal weight for sedentary.

This worked for me.

ladyraven68 · April 2012

If you've jumped straight from 1260, to 1600, most peopel experience a slight gain, as your glycogen stores are replenished. but it is not fat. you would need to eat at maintenance plus 500 more to gain fat.

http://www.justinowings.com/understanding-bodyweight-and-glycogen-de/

Where did you calculate your TDEE from? If your TDEE is really 1744, then you only have a defict of 144 if you are eating at 1600, or did you calculate 1744 as your sedentary energy expenditure, not including exercise?

LorinaLynn · April 2012

I'm about your age and height, and did best at about 1500 plus exercise calories, so typically around 1800-2000 calories.

I also found that even though I work from home and sit quite a bit, I needed to be at lightly active at a minimum. Once I went on maintenance, I had to bump it up to active, plus most of my exercise calories, to stop losing weight. I net around 1800 now.

Even though MFP describes sedentary as someone having a desk job, I think it's a bit more than that. Sedentary is someone who sits all day at work, then comes home and sits the rest of the night. Someone who does cooking, cleaning, shopping, yard work, taking care of pets or kids, AND exercises is not sedentary. Sedentary implies someone who won't or can't be physically active.

Take, for instance, my husband. He has a physically demanding job, so he's not sedentary, but once he comes home, he's on the computer or watching tv the rest of the night. I only work part time from home, so I take care of all the house-stuff. If he had a cushy desk job, and still came home and did nothing, he'd be sedentary. And I'd be pissed, but that's another story.

2April · April 2012

Try 1400 and don't eat back calories. If you find that you are tired/lack energy increase to 1500.

Lozze · April 2012

When you figured out your BMR and TDEE did it ask you for your activity level? Did it include exercise? If it did, you don't need to eat your exercise calories back because you've already included it in your daily goal.

moylie · April 2012

So, if she eats 1400 calories, but then has a 500 calorie burn, she's only netting 900 calories for the day. That's way too little. Of course she would be tired and lack energy, because that's considered starvation mode.

Not good advice at all, IMO.

Hezzietiger1 · April 2012

She's doesn't have 0% body fat.. .therefore, it's not "starvation mode".

That was great advice btw. And, I would take it. Ps... It's pretty much identical to my current diet.. and it works.

Anita672 · April 2012

I am so glad I posted - thank you all for your thoughts and advice.

I will go calculate my % body fat but I did quickly go recalculate my TDEE and BMR.

OK:

TDEE
using desk job 1745 kcal
using exercise 1 to 3 x a week 2000
using 3 to 5 x a week exercise (which is what I'm doing) 2254

BMR
1455

My understanding is for weight loss calories should be above BMR and less than TDEE (should it be 500 calories less than TDEE??) If that is right, I should eat above 1455. The TDEE is where it gets tricky. 500 less than the desk job is 1245. I work in an office, I am walking back and forth, when I am home in the evening I do sit when on the computer, etc. I have been exercising 30-60 min depending on workout so that would be 1500 to 1754 depending on which TDEE I use (500 calories less than the TDEE using exercise listed above).

So do I go
a)1455 - 1500 or
b)1455 - 1754 and not eat back calories or
c)do I do 1260 (MFP goal) plus eat exercise calories or
d)1260 and not eat exercise calories.

moylie · April 2012

Wow, you figured out all your numbers. GOOD JOB! Based on what you said earlier.... of eating 1600 and your body was thanking you for it, perhaps you should try just going up a bit. If you try 1700, that is a 15% CUT from the middle TDEE number. I wouldn't get stuck on a 500 deficit. That's not a "one-size-fits-all" number. Try taking a 15-20% deduction from the TDEE that you want to use. Then, on exercise days, just eat back calories so that your NET is no lower than your BMR of 1455.

Sounds like you might just have to experiment to find what will work for you. Believe me, I'm also tired of not seeing immediate changes anymore. I'm within 10 pounds of goal, and this has been the longest, hardest part of the journey yet. I'm actually at 1800, and contemplating going to 1900. Give yourself 2-4 weeks doing a new routine, then re-evaluate.

Anita672 · April 2012

Moylie, can you clarify: you said "Try taking a 15-20% deduction from the TDEE that you want to use. Then, on exercise days, just eat back calories so that your NET is no lower than your BMR of 1455."

Using the TDEE of 3 to 5 times a week exercising, 20% less than that is 1804.

Questions:
1) when they say 'exercising' 3 to 5 times a week, what constitues exercise? Is the 30 to 60 minutes I am doing (see previous messages) appropriate?

2) If the TDEE incorporates exercise already, do I still eat the extra calories 'earned' from exercising? So, if I say OK my calorie goal is 1800 then I exercise which is worth 300 calories, do I then eat 2100 or is the exercise already accounted for in the 1800?

Again, thank you all for your help!

Anita672 · April 2012

Moylie, just re-read your post and I think I know the answer to my second question:

I would eat 15 to 20% below my TDEE.

On the days I exercise, I would log those calories burned. I would eat the amount to ensure my net calories still equals my 15 to 20% below my TDEE.

Right?!?! If so I may have had an ah ha moment!

That being said, still not sure WHICH TDEE to use??

The exercise I am striving for is 30 minutes on the days I am doing my running program (couch to 5 k) or walking/stairs intervals (very hard for me) or 60 minutes if walking on treadmill or elliptical. The workouts seem to average about 300 kcal using the MFP database or the amount displayed on the machine.

My BMR is 1455. 20% less the TDEE using a desk job would put me at 1396 so I think that is ruled out because that is below my BMR, right?

20% less using 1 to 3 days of exercise would put me at 1600. 20% less using 3 to 5 days of exercising is 1803.

moylie · April 2012

You should really join the "Eat More to Weigh Less" Group here. It has a lot of posts on the whole BMR/TDEE equation. They suggest picking moderate as the TDEE level. This is basically your maintenance level. Theoretically you would eat at this (2200), and neither gain nor lose. To lose, they suggest cutting 15% off of that TDEE number. You would set MFP as that goal, plus change your macros to 40/30/30 (Carb/Protein/Fat). So, when you record your exercise, check your "home" screen here, and it will display your net value. That NET value shouldn't ever go below your BMR of 1455. I've seen others say it's OK to eat back up to 150 or so above BMR, and you should still be fine. I like to eat, so I push the limit

Maybe set MFP for 1750 or 1800. If you fall short a bit to start, don't worry about it. It's all a guessing game to figure out what will work for YOU. It's just as important to hit your macro levels, especially protein. Try to always have above 100 or close to your weight for protein grams.

2April · April 2012

She is not burning 500 calories a day. Starvation mode is a myth. BMR and TDEE are a best guess. Therefore you need to find the calories where you have energy to work out and are losing weight. I eat 1450 a day and I do plenty of exercise and have lots of energy. I am gaining strength and increasing my running speed and distance. I can do a pull-up and can dead-lift more than my body weight and I am new to lifting. I am 35 and I have 2 kids - I am 2 lbs away from my goal of 114 lbs.
If she isn't losing weight when she eats 1600 then she needs to eat a bit less - like 1400-1500.

em9371 · April 2012

First of all, if you have only just increased your cals it takes time fr your body to adjust. It's normal to see a small gain at first then the loss should start. I increased from 1200 net to 1600 net back in January, first week I gained 0.8 then lost 3,2,3,1.5 the following month. On 1200 I lost 1.5-2 max.

If you exercise then this is included in tdee so you should go with lightly or moderately active, you don't eat back exercise Unless your net falls below bmr as its already included in the calculation OR eat the cals for sedentary plus your exercise.
1700-1800 total or 1500 plus exercise sounds a good starting point, stick with it for a month then adjust up or down as needed. With 10lbs to lose you should be aiming for around 0.5 a week loss / 250 deficit.

If you worked out your bmr / tdee on fat 2 fit, the numbers in the table are not your tdee, they are the tdee for your goal weight. To get current tdee you need to put your goal weight same as current then you will get your tdee/ cals to maintain.
If you didn't input your body fat %, get it checked and rerun the numbers, this can make a big difference to your bmr and therefore the calories you should be eating.

I would also add some heavy weight training, maybe for the last few pounds you need to work on increasing muscle / reducing body fat rather than losing weight. Lorina is a fabulous example of how this works!!

moylie · April 2012

I'm merely speaking from my own experience. I was eating 1400-1500, and had plateaued and stalled for three solid months. Clearly my metabolism had adjusted to that level, and was hanging onto every calorie. I needed a change in order to kick start things again. I found two schools of thought on these forums 1. The Eat Less Camp, and 2. The Eat More Camp. I wasn't willing to eat less than 1400 calories. I'm a runner training for a half-marathon, and I also started lifting heavy. With around 10 more pounds to lose, it proved wise for me to lessen my weekly weightloss goal, and start eating closer to maintenance of the weight I want to be. It's all one big experiment, since this is not a one-size-fits-all program.

moylie · April 2012

Here's some links to check out, courtesy of the Eat More to Weigh Less group:

Great read on plateauing http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/501511-great-read-on-plateau-ing?page=8#posts-7150335

Excellent information on why not eating enough works against you... http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/3047-700-calories-a-day-and-not-losing

Proof that there are many eating and losing weight successfully http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/506349-women-who-eat-more-than-1800-calories-a-day

Excellent article "Metabolic Damage Why It Happens, How to Avoid It and How to Fix It" by Tom Venuto
http://www.burnthefat.com/metabolic_damage.html

2April · April 2012

I agree - however the OP is doing half hour walk/runs which do not burn that many calories. Training for a half-marathon and heavy lifting would require hundreds more calories a day so your experience is not the same as hers. Also, she never reached a plateau when eating less. Your plateau may have been water retention which is quite common when you start a lifting program but you likely need the extra calories anyway due to your training requirements.

Anita672 · April 2012

Lorinalynn, can you give me some more info about activity levels? I am that person who "does cooking, cleaning, shopping, yard work, taking care of pets or kids, AND exercises is not sedentary". Right now I do have sedentary as my activity level on my profile.

Eating MFP calorie goal plus exercise calories - not losing

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