Getting Ripped the "natural" way.
taxidermist15
Posts: 677 Member
hey there guys.
Im about the start on a 12 week programme from one of the bodybuilding.com trainers.
However all these programmes require either a chit load of protein shakes or all these other supplements that i have no idea what they consists of.
Eg creatine, soy or whey protein, linoleic acid, blah blah blah....
i just want to eat food, and get muscly.
Is there any possible way to get this sort of results without all these supplements or it is really super unnecessary? I dont even use protein powder, as id prefer a great big steak over it anyway. But the whole pre/post workout supplments and stuff.. its confusing!
Im about the start on a 12 week programme from one of the bodybuilding.com trainers.
However all these programmes require either a chit load of protein shakes or all these other supplements that i have no idea what they consists of.
Eg creatine, soy or whey protein, linoleic acid, blah blah blah....
i just want to eat food, and get muscly.
Is there any possible way to get this sort of results without all these supplements or it is really super unnecessary? I dont even use protein powder, as id prefer a great big steak over it anyway. But the whole pre/post workout supplments and stuff.. its confusing!
0
Replies
-
I completed a 6 month weight lifting program and the only supplements I took was 100% pure whey protein isolate. It was the only way I could get enough protein (at least 30% of total calories) without exceeding my MFP calorie limit. I still wanted to lose weight (and most of it fat, not muscle) so I was operating at a reasonable calorie deficit. I'm thrilled with the results of the program. Because I was a beginner lifter, I was able to make huge gains in strength, lower body fat%, muscle definition, and feeling very powerful!
You don't have to take any supplements at all.0 -
Just eat a high protein diet... Fish, chicken, beef... jerky.. (watch the sodium)... you can do it naturally, it's just more of a challenge than if you just buy the protein powders.0
-
Just eat a high protein diet... Fish, chicken, beef... jerky.. (watch the sodium)... you can do it naturally, it's just more of a challenge than if you just buy the protein powders.
Exactly, it's tough to consume 200g+ of protein a day from regular sources. Especially without getting really tired of eating plain chicken. Or without going over your daily caloric limit.0 -
Just eat a high protein diet... Fish, chicken, beef... jerky.. (watch the sodium)... you can do it naturally, it's just more of a challenge than if you just buy the protein powders.
Exactly, it's tough to consume 200g+ of protein a day from regular sources. Especially without getting really tired of eating plain chicken. Or without going over your daily caloric limit.
Not to mention that you want the protein to be available right after working out. That is the main time I like a protein shake... right after a workout so that my body knows it has enough protein to rebuild muscles stronger
Maybe eating a lean protein meal just before workout would have a similar effect? I'm sure there are people out there who do it... 0 -
Just eat a high protein diet... Fish, chicken, beef... jerky.. (watch the sodium)... you can do it naturally, it's just more of a challenge than if you just buy the protein powders.
Exactly, it's tough to consume 200g+ of protein a day from regular sources. Especially without getting really tired of eating plain chicken. Or without going over your daily caloric limit.
Not to mention that you want the protein to be available right after working out. That is the main time I like a protein shake... right after a workout so that my body knows it has enough protein to rebuild muscles stronger Maybe eating a lean protein meal just before workout would have a similar effect? I'm sure there are people out there who do it...
Believe it or not that is actually a myth. The timing of protein doesn't matter, it's the overall intake that matters. Hell, I drink my shake in the morning for breakfast.
For example, if you normally get 100g of protein a day and then start adding a 50g shake after your workouts, it is going to help. But that's because you increased your protein intake by 50%. If you changed your diet and ate 150g a day from whole foods spread out over the course of the day, you would have the same gains.0 -
Bodybuilders are fans of cottage cheese, especially at night. Other than that, I'm pretty much bumping the thread.
As a side note, I haven't had much luck finding a good protein shake. Either they're too expensive or contain tons of sugar.0 -
The timing of protein doesn't matter, it's the overall intake that matters.
For the most part no. But it's recommended to have whey protein after a workout (it's absorbed faster) and casein protein at other times of the day (it's slowly absorbed).0 -
Bodybuilding.com is primarily an online supplement store. Any advice you get from them is going to encourage you to purchase supplements.0
-
Eat 1g protein per lb of body weight. Whether you get it from eggs, chicken, pork chops, whey powder, or whatever other source doesn't really matter.0
-
One word: TESTOSTERONE!0
-
check out unjury protein powder...I really like it, and they are super people to work with.0
-
All supplements do is "supplement" your diet. Your diet should be your main focus, the reason why people take protein powders and such, is that they cannot possible eat that much food to get the proper nutrition values that they need. \
Good luck with your goals0 -
Bodybuilders are fans of cottage cheese, especially at night. Other than that, I'm pretty much bumping the thread.
As a side note, I haven't had much luck finding a good protein shake. Either they're too expensive or contain tons of sugar.
I am a big fan of Muscle Milk. The only low sugar one I have found.0 -
Get yourself to Myprotein for your powder and save your money by not buying the rest0
-
One word: TESTOSTERONE!
:laugh: Yeah, I'm surprised HE didn't pay this thread a visit!0 -
I don't see why you SHOULDN'T eat a giant steak? That sounds awesome in every way.
Eat a diet that's mostly meat/fish, eggs, and vegetables. Cottage cheese is a great source of protein too. I'm not going to say "don't eat carbs" but when you are looking to change your body composition and not just lose a lot of weight, you need to change your macronutrient ratios and your protein intake should probably be higher than your carb intake.0 -
Just eat a high protein diet... Fish, chicken, beef... jerky.. (watch the sodium)... you can do it naturally, it's just more of a challenge than if you just buy the protein powders.
Exactly, it's tough to consume 200g+ of protein a day from regular sources. Especially without getting really tired of eating plain chicken. Or without going over your daily caloric limit.
Not to mention that you want the protein to be available right after working out. That is the main time I like a protein shake... right after a workout so that my body knows it has enough protein to rebuild muscles stronger Maybe eating a lean protein meal just before workout would have a similar effect? I'm sure there are people out there who do it...
Believe it or not that is actually a myth. The timing of protein doesn't matter, it's the overall intake that matters. Hell, I drink my shake in the morning for breakfast.
For example, if you normally get 100g of protein a day and then start adding a 50g shake after your workouts, it is going to help. But that's because you increased your protein intake by 50%. If you changed your diet and ate 150g a day from whole foods spread out over the course of the day, you would have the same gains.
Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2006 Nov;38(11):1918-25.
Effects of supplement timing and resistance exercise on skeletal muscle hypertrophy.
Cribb PJ, Hayes A.
Source
Exercise Metabolism Unit, Center for Ageing, Rehabilitation, Exercise and Sport; and the School of Biomedical Sciences, Victoria University, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.
Abstract
PURPOSE:
Some studies report greater muscle hypertrophy during resistance exercise (RE) training from supplement timing (i.e., the strategic consumption of protein and carbohydrate before and/or after each workout). However, no studies have examined whether this strategy provides greater muscle hypertrophy or strength development compared with supplementation at other times during the day. The purpose of this study was to examine the effects of supplement timing compared with supplementation in the hours not close to the workout on muscle-fiber hypertrophy, strength, and body composition during a 10-wk RE program.
METHODS:
In a single-blind, randomized protocol, resistance-trained males were matched for strength and placed into one of two groups; the PRE-POST group consumed a supplement (1 g x kg(-1) body weight) containing protein/creatine/glucose immediately before and after RE. The MOR-EVE group consumed the same dose of the same supplement in the morning and late evening. All assessments were completed the week before and after 10 wk of structured, supervised RE training. Assessments included strength (1RM, three exercises), body composition (DEXA), and vastus lateralis muscle biopsies for determination of muscle fiber type (I, IIa, IIx), cross-sectional area (CSA), contractile protein, creatine (Cr), and glycogen content.
RESULTS:
PRE-POST demonstrated a greater (P < 0.05) increase in lean body mass and 1RM strength in two of three assessments. The changes in body composition were supported by a greater (P < 0.05) increase in CSA of the type II fibers and contractile protein content. PRE-POST supplementation also resulted in higher muscle Cr and glycogen values after the training program (P < 0.05).
CONCLUSION:
Supplement timing represents a simple but effective strategy that enhances the adaptations desired from RE-training.
What you say is inconsistent with the non-broscience literature I have read on the subject, so I continue to consider a protein shake after my workout an important part of my training.0 -
That's bro-science. There is no actual benefit to that approach. You have a 24 hour window after workouts for recovery, timing of any nutrient is unimportant, as long as you get the nutrients you need.The timing of protein doesn't matter, it's the overall intake that matters.
For the most part no. But it's recommended to have whey protein after a workout (it's absorbed faster) and casein protein at other times of the day (it's slowly absorbed).0 -
That's bro-science. There is no actual benefit to that approach. You have a 24 hour window after workouts for recovery, timing of any nutrient is unimportant, as long as you get the nutrients you need.The timing of protein doesn't matter, it's the overall intake that matters.
For the most part no. But it's recommended to have whey protein after a workout (it's absorbed faster) and casein protein at other times of the day (it's slowly absorbed).
I'd like to see your source, please.
Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2012 Mar 28. [Epub ahead of print]
Whey Protein does not Enhance the Adaptations to Elbow Flexor Resistance Training.
Erskine RM, Fletcher G, Hanson B, Folland JP.
Source
1Institute for Performance Research, Department of Exercise and Sport Science, Manchester Metropolitan University, Crewe, United Kingdom; 2School of Sport, Exercise and Health Sciences, Loughborough University, Loughborough, United Kingdom.
Abstract
PURPOSE:
It is unclear whether protein supplementation augments the gains in muscle strength and size observed following resistance training (RT), as limitations to previous studies include small cohorts, imprecise measures of muscle size and strength, and no control of prior exercise or habitual protein intake (HPI). We aimed to determine whether whey protein supplementation affected RT-induced changes in elbow flexor muscle strength and size.
METHODS:
We pair-matched 33 previously untrained, healthy young men for their HPI and strength response to 3-wk RT without nutritional supplementation (followed by 6-wk no training), and then randomly assigned them to protein (PRO; n = 17) or placebo (PLA; n = 16) groups. Participants subsequently performed elbow flexor RT 3 d/wk for 12-wk and consumed PRO or PLA immediately before and after each training session. We assessed elbow flexor muscle strength [unilateral 1-RM and isometric maximum voluntary force (MVF)] and size [total volume and maximum anatomical cross-sectional area (ACSAmax) determined with MRI] before and after the 12-wk RT.
RESULTS:
PRO and PLA demonstrated similar increases in muscle volume (PRO, 17.0 ± 7.1% vs. PLA, 14.9 ± 4.6%; P = 0.32), ACSAmax (PRO, 16.2 ± 7.1% vs. PLA, 15.6 ± 4.4%; P = 0.80), 1-RM (PRO, 41.8 ± 21.2% vs. PLA, 41.4 ± 19.9%; P = 0.97) and MVF (PRO, 12.0 ± 9.9% vs. PLA, 14.5 ± 8.3%; P = 0.43).
CONCLUSION:
In the context of this study, protein supplementation did not augment elbow flexor muscle strength and size changes that occurred after 12-wk RT.
They didn't have statistical significance, so I guess this supports your point.0 -
I "bulked" last year for 6 months to gain muscle. Had 3000 calories a day and on average around 180g of protein.
I did have 1, sometimes 2 scoops of whey protein powder to help get this amount (24-48g protein) but it's definitely not necessary. If you can give yourself sufficient protein levels without supplements there's nothing wrong with that at all
It's recommended that a person trying to build muscle, or maintain it while losing weight, should be consuming around 1g per lb of body weight, or at least per lb of lean mass.
I didn't have any other supplements apart from that.0 -
That's bro-science. There is no actual benefit to that approach. You have a 24 hour window after workouts for recovery, timing of any nutrient is unimportant, as long as you get the nutrients you need.The timing of protein doesn't matter, it's the overall intake that matters.
For the most part no. But it's recommended to have whey protein after a workout (it's absorbed faster) and casein protein at other times of the day (it's slowly absorbed).
I'd like to see your source, please.
Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2012 Mar 28. [Epub ahead of print]
Whey Protein does not Enhance the Adaptations to Elbow Flexor Resistance Training.
Erskine RM, Fletcher G, Hanson B, Folland JP.
Source
1Institute for Performance Research, Department of Exercise and Sport Science, Manchester Metropolitan University, Crewe, United Kingdom; 2School of Sport, Exercise and Health Sciences, Loughborough University, Loughborough, United Kingdom.
Abstract
PURPOSE:
It is unclear whether protein supplementation augments the gains in muscle strength and size observed following resistance training (RT), as limitations to previous studies include small cohorts, imprecise measures of muscle size and strength, and no control of prior exercise or habitual protein intake (HPI). We aimed to determine whether whey protein supplementation affected RT-induced changes in elbow flexor muscle strength and size.
METHODS:
We pair-matched 33 previously untrained, healthy young men for their HPI and strength response to 3-wk RT without nutritional supplementation (followed by 6-wk no training), and then randomly assigned them to protein (PRO; n = 17) or placebo (PLA; n = 16) groups. Participants subsequently performed elbow flexor RT 3 d/wk for 12-wk and consumed PRO or PLA immediately before and after each training session. We assessed elbow flexor muscle strength [unilateral 1-RM and isometric maximum voluntary force (MVF)] and size [total volume and maximum anatomical cross-sectional area (ACSAmax) determined with MRI] before and after the 12-wk RT.
RESULTS:
PRO and PLA demonstrated similar increases in muscle volume (PRO, 17.0 ± 7.1% vs. PLA, 14.9 ± 4.6%; P = 0.32), ACSAmax (PRO, 16.2 ± 7.1% vs. PLA, 15.6 ± 4.4%; P = 0.80), 1-RM (PRO, 41.8 ± 21.2% vs. PLA, 41.4 ± 19.9%; P = 0.97) and MVF (PRO, 12.0 ± 9.9% vs. PLA, 14.5 ± 8.3%; P = 0.43).
CONCLUSION:
In the context of this study, protein supplementation did not augment elbow flexor muscle strength and size changes that occurred after 12-wk RT.
They didn't have statistical significance, so I guess this supports your point.
Tigersword is kinda the antithesis of a bro-scientist. Just sayin'.0 -
Apples to kumquats.
That's bro-science. There is no actual benefit to that approach. You have a 24 hour window after workouts for recovery, timing of any nutrient is unimportant, as long as you get the nutrients you need.The timing of protein doesn't matter, it's the overall intake that matters.
For the most part no. But it's recommended to have whey protein after a workout (it's absorbed faster) and casein protein at other times of the day (it's slowly absorbed).
I'd like to see your source, please.
Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2012 Mar 28. [Epub ahead of print]
Whey Protein does not Enhance the Adaptations to Elbow Flexor Resistance Training.
Erskine RM, Fletcher G, Hanson B, Folland JP.
Source
1Institute for Performance Research, Department of Exercise and Sport Science, Manchester Metropolitan University, Crewe, United Kingdom; 2School of Sport, Exercise and Health Sciences, Loughborough University, Loughborough, United Kingdom.
Abstract
PURPOSE:
It is unclear whether protein supplementation augments the gains in muscle strength and size observed following resistance training (RT), as limitations to previous studies include small cohorts, imprecise measures of muscle size and strength, and no control of prior exercise or habitual protein intake (HPI). We aimed to determine whether whey protein supplementation affected RT-induced changes in elbow flexor muscle strength and size.
METHODS:
We pair-matched 33 previously untrained, healthy young men for their HPI and strength response to 3-wk RT without nutritional supplementation (followed by 6-wk no training), and then randomly assigned them to protein (PRO; n = 17) or placebo (PLA; n = 16) groups. Participants subsequently performed elbow flexor RT 3 d/wk for 12-wk and consumed PRO or PLA immediately before and after each training session. We assessed elbow flexor muscle strength [unilateral 1-RM and isometric maximum voluntary force (MVF)] and size [total volume and maximum anatomical cross-sectional area (ACSAmax) determined with MRI] before and after the 12-wk RT.
RESULTS:
PRO and PLA demonstrated similar increases in muscle volume (PRO, 17.0 ± 7.1% vs. PLA, 14.9 ± 4.6%; P = 0.32), ACSAmax (PRO, 16.2 ± 7.1% vs. PLA, 15.6 ± 4.4%; P = 0.80), 1-RM (PRO, 41.8 ± 21.2% vs. PLA, 41.4 ± 19.9%; P = 0.97) and MVF (PRO, 12.0 ± 9.9% vs. PLA, 14.5 ± 8.3%; P = 0.43).
CONCLUSION:
In the context of this study, protein supplementation did not augment elbow flexor muscle strength and size changes that occurred after 12-wk RT.
They didn't have statistical significance, so I guess this supports your point.
Tiger is saying when you take your protein doesn't matter - that you have a 24 hour window after workout.
The study you are quoting is trying to determine whether protein supplements affect gains in muscle strength and size.0 -
I "bulked" last year for 6 months to gain muscle. Had 3000 calories a day and on average around 180g of protein.
I did have 1, sometimes 2 scoops of whey protein powder to help get this amount (24-48g protein) but it's definitely not necessary. If you can give yourself sufficient protein levels without supplements there's nothing wrong with that at all
It's recommended that a person trying to build muscle, or maintain it while losing weight, should be consuming around 1g per lb of body weight, or at least per lb of lean mass.
I didn't have any other supplements apart from that.
This, but I only had about 130-150 grams of protein a day from food and/or whey protein.0 -
i just want to eat food, and get muscly.
Also, I love this. Me too.0 -
I agree, MyProtein compared to other supplements online are by far the best bargain. Arrives promptly etc and their whey protein shakes taste good!0
-
One word: TESTOSTERONE!
:laugh: Yeah, I'm surprised HE didn't pay this thread a visit!
From what I saw his wife post on a friend's status, he's banned from the forums.0 -
I don't know what you guys are talking about. I'm referring to the hormone.
From what I saw his wife post on a friend's status, he's banned from the forums.
:laugh: Yeah, I'm surprised HE didn't pay this thread a visit!One word: TESTOSTERONE!0 -
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21289204
That's bro-science. There is no actual benefit to that approach. You have a 24 hour window after workouts for recovery, timing of any nutrient is unimportant, as long as you get the nutrients you need.The timing of protein doesn't matter, it's the overall intake that matters.
For the most part no. But it's recommended to have whey protein after a workout (it's absorbed faster) and casein protein at other times of the day (it's slowly absorbed).
I'd like to see your source, please.
There ya go.0 -
you have to consume decent protein (shoot for 100g) just taking a guess here. And lift heavy as you can to keep your body from getting rid of muscle.0
-
Sounds like lots of good advice people!. so all in all. get protein powder, and everything else i can get from food.
ok so difference between whey, soy, casein, blah blah blah?
apparently soy is better for women than men cause it has oestrogen in it or something ? oh god, this is hard!0
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 394.2K Introduce Yourself
- 43.9K Getting Started
- 260.4K Health and Weight Loss
- 176.1K Food and Nutrition
- 47.5K Recipes
- 232.6K Fitness and Exercise
- 438 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.6K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153.1K Motivation and Support
- 8.1K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.4K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.9K MyFitnessPal Information
- 15 News and Announcements
- 1.2K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.7K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions