Heavy Lifting Vs. Lean Muscle... I'm confused!

ExplorinLauren

I recently started P90X... He says in the videos 8-10 reps to bulk up, 12-15 for lean muscle. Then I read about all these people doing heavy lifting, 4-6. I'm so confused on which what I am supposed to do for the results I want.
Let me say... my ultimate goal is losing weight. But I also want to tone.... I don't want to lose a bunch of weight and be soft. I wan't some defined muscles, but I do not want to be bulky. I already have a thicker type body style, and I tend to build muscles fast... I don't want to look fat but muscular. Is any of this making sense? Please help!
Any help or insight would be greatly appreciated

ExplorinLauren

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onyxaj

Here's some tips:

Build mucle - Start with moderate weight, doing few reps( 6-10). After each set, add more weight and continue doing low reps. Rest about 3 minutes after each set. You are using the maximum capacity of your muscles.

Tone - Start with low weight, and do hight reps (15-20). Rest 1 minute between each set, and do not add more weight, Do as many sets as you can without discomfort. You are using about half to a little more of your muscles capacity.

Weight Loss - Start with low to moderate weight with high reps (15-20). Do as may sets as possible resting 30 seconds between each set.


EDIT - I don't do P90X, but I weight lift. This may help you figure out which videos to use.

kdiamond

Well, P90X is not heavy lifting. You use lighter weights and it is more intensity-driven for weight loss and overall conditioning.

Heavy lifting is using barbells/dumbbells with varying weights and doing simple compound movements.

As for building muscle, you aren't going to do that with either program unless you eat over your maintenance. This is especially for women. I lift heavy 3x a week and have been for a few years now and I am a pretty small girl. I'm just tighter all over and have defined muscle tone (i.e. lean muscle).

Hope this helps a little!

jacksonpt

Eat at a deficit to lose weight. Eat at a surplus to gain weight. Weight gain/loss is about the diet, not about the exercise. Lift heavy, eat at a moderate deficit (with lots of protein)... you'll lose and you won't get bulky. 4-6 or 8-10, you'll be fine with either, don't over-think it.

Sidesteal

I recently started P90X... He says in the videos 8-10 reps to bulk up, 12-15 for lean muscle. Then I read about all these people doing heavy lifting, 4-6. I'm so confused on which what I am supposed to do for the results I want.
Let me say... my ultimate goal is losing weight. But I also want to tone.... I don't want to lose a bunch of weight and be soft. I wan't some defined muscles, but I do not want to be bulky. I already have a thicker type body style, and I tend to build muscles fast... I don't want to look fat but muscular. Is any of this making sense? Please help!
Any help or insight would be greatly appreciated

Generally speaking:

lower rep range (3-6 ish) : Power/Strength
Moderate rep range (8-12) Hypertrophy/size
High rep range (15+): Endurance

I am generalizing but I believe the above to be true conceptually.

I also believe you will make gains in all areas at any rep range but it's a matter of efficiency. If my only goal is power, I'm not going to spend time training in a 15 rep range, although if you strictly trained in a 15 rep range I would still expect some strength gain, just not nearly as much or as fast as if you trained in the proper range.

MMarvelous

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steve1686

trust me, you won't build significant muscle doing p90x

CarrieAnne22

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Rae6503

If you are doing P90X and dieting you don't have to worry about bulking. It's not the type of lifting that builds muscle and it's difficult to build muscle while on a calorie deficit.

Abells

Eat at a deficit to lose weight. Eat at a surplus to gain weight. Weight gain/loss is about the diet, not about the exercise. Lift heavy, eat at a moderate deficit (with lots of protein)... you'll lose and you won't get bulky. 4-6 or 8-10, you'll be fine with either, don't over-think it.

BABOOM!! 2nd this motion -- you are NOT going to get bulky look for forums on women who lift and you will see a lot of these myths get smoooshed!!

docktorfokse

All muscle is lean muscle; what he said sounds like some mad 90's broscience. Preserving and building muscle is what assists you in losing fat, though it does not necessarily help you lose weight because you still have the weight of the muscle on your body.

slyder432

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UponThisRock

I recently started P90X... He says in the videos 8-10 reps to bulk up, 12-15 for lean muscle. Then I read about all these people doing heavy lifting, 4-6. I'm so confused on which what I am supposed to do for the results I want.
Let me say... my ultimate goal is losing weight. But I also want to tone.... I don't want to lose a bunch of weight and be soft. I wan't some defined muscles, but I do not want to be bulky. I already have a thicker type body style, and I tend to build muscles fast... I don't want to look fat but muscular. Is any of this making sense? Please help!
Any help or insight would be greatly appreciated

Generally speaking:

lower rep range (3-6 ish) : Power/Strength
Moderate rep range (8-12) Hypertrophy/size
High rep range (15+): Endurance

I am generalizing but I believe the above to be true conceptually.

I also believe you will make gains in all areas at any rep range but it's a matter of efficacy. If my only goal is power, I'm not going to spend time training in a 15 rep range, although if you strictly trained in a 15 rep range I would still expect some strength gain, just not nearly as much or as fast as if you trained in the proper range.

Just to add to the above: http://i.imgur.com/UrF1U.png

I also hear p90x talk about "the science of muscle confusion," so I wouldn't put too much stock into what they say.

mustgetmuscles1

P90x is all about burning fat and endurance/conditioning. It will build strength at first but then plateau out because you will reach the limit of using body weight as your resistance.

4-6 reps is great for building strength and power (but will build some size)
6-10 is great for putting on mass/size (but will increase some strength)
12-15 is more about endurance conditioning (small gains in size and strength)

crisanderson27

Here's some tips:

1. Build mucle - Start with moderate weight, doing few reps( 6-10). After each set, add more weight and continue doing low reps. Rest about 3 minutes after each set. You are using the maximum capacity of your muscles.

2. Tone - Start with low weight, and do hight reps (15-20). Rest 1 minute between each set, and do not add more weight, Do as many sets as you can without discomfort. You are using about half to a little more of your muscles capacity.

3. Weight Loss - Start with low to moderate weight with high reps (15-20). Do as may sets as possible resting 30 seconds between each set.


EDIT - I don't do P90X, but I weight lift. This may help you figure out which videos to use.

I pretty much disagree with this across the board.

1. Build muscle - First, I'm assuming you mean strength training? Or do you mean body building? Two very different goals there. This person isn't wanting to be a body builder, they want usable strength and no significant muscle gain (which isn't going to happen with P90x anyhow). For this they need to lift heavy, not moderate, and they need to lift in the 5-8 rep range. I prefer 5 sets of 5 reps, with a weight I would fail at in 7 reps on my first attempt. Others prefer 3 sets of 8 reps, with a weight they will fail at in 10ish reps. You don't add more weight, because the weight you've chosen should be quite challenging to begin with, and making you squirm by your 4th or 5th set. If it's too heavy to complete those sets, deload 5lbs and finish. Your rest recommendation is pretty good.

2. Tone - What is toning?

3. Weight Loss - By this I'm assuming you mean fat loss, because I don't know anyone who wants to lose lean mass, regardless of whether or not they're trying to lose overall weight. For fat loss, see point 1, perform in a more circuit based manner, resting 30 seconds to 1 minute (or use a heart rate monitor to keep your heart rate elevated).

I don't mean to bash your post...but almost everything you said above is based on an older belief system, and amounts to, simply...misinformation.

~ Edit - To add that diet is of course key. I automatically assume this is a given, but it's usually not so I felt the need to mention it. Deficit = fat loss, surplus = muscle gain...and even with a surplus, you're not going to gain more than about 1lb a month as a woman, putting in max effort to bulk. A man can expect somewhat more, but not a whole lot.

engineman312

I recently started P90X... He says in the videos 8-10 reps to bulk up, 12-15 for lean muscle. Then I read about all these people doing heavy lifting, 4-6. I'm so confused on which what I am supposed to do for the results I want.
Let me say... my ultimate goal is losing weight. But I also want to tone.... I don't want to lose a bunch of weight and be soft. I wan't some defined muscles, but I do not want to be bulky. I already have a thicker type body style, and I tend to build muscles fast... I don't want to look fat but muscular. Is any of this making sense? Please help!
Any help or insight would be greatly appreciated

Generally speaking:

lower rep range (3-6 ish) : Power/Strength
Moderate rep range (8-12) Hypertrophy/size
High rep range (15+): Endurance

I am generalizing but I believe the above to be true conceptually.

I also believe you will make gains in all areas at any rep range but it's a matter of efficacy. If my only goal is power, I'm not going to spend time training in a 15 rep range, although if you strictly trained in a 15 rep range I would still expect some strength gain, just not nearly as much or as fast as if you trained in the proper range.

Just to add to the above: http://i.imgur.com/UrF1U.png

I also hear p90x talk about "the science of muscle confusion," so I wouldn't put too much stock into what they say.

these guys have good information. i'd also like to add that you don't have to go to the gym and do the same type of reps & sets each time.

monday can be a power day (4-6 reps)
wednesday can be a size building day (8-10)
friday can be an endurance day ( 12+)

ArroganceInStep

I enjoy P90X, it's a good workout that I can do with my fiancee at home. It also helps me build endurance for calisthenics and such that I do at my dojo. That being said I don't do P90X to build stength or muscle mass, I do it as a supplement and because it's fun. I agree with Sidesteal on this one:

Generally speaking:

lower rep range (3-6 ish) : Power/Strength
Moderate rep range (8-12) Hypertrophy/size
High rep range (15+): Endurance

I am generalizing but I believe the above to be true conceptually.

I also believe you will make gains in all areas at any rep range but it's a matter of efficiency. If my only goal is power, I'm not going to spend time training in a 15 rep range, although if you strictly trained in a 15 rep range I would still expect some strength gain, just not nearly as much or as fast as if you trained in the proper range.

Polly758

Females will not get bulky unless they are trying REALLY hard, by that I mean taking steroids, lifting for hours every day, and eating a very careful diet with all sorts of supplements.

Doing 12-15 reps won't build muscle size, nor will it get you very strong.

If you want to look strong, that means BEING strong, by lifting heavy things, 8-10 reps or even 4-6 reps<-- better. Think about it this way: You can pick up something heavy, like a big box of books, and put it down again 4-6 times, and then you'll be tired and you won't want to pick it up any more. So your body responds by repairing the muscles so that the next time you pick it up it will be easier. If you pick up something light, on the other hand, like a gallon of milk, you could probably do that all day and your body will respond by doing pretty much nothing.

Since you're already doing 8-10 reps, I'd say start with that for a month or so, increading the resistance as soon as it feels easy. Watch your body to take note of any changes, and if you see yourself getting "bulky" by your definition, you can always back off on the weight. I REALLY doubt that's doing to happen, but you'll never know until you try.

You'll lose fat as you gain muscle, especially if you adjust your diet so you're getting percentages of carbohydrates/fat/protien = 40/30/30. But you also need to make sure you are eating enough calories because your body needs it to repair and build more muscle.

Check your library for a book called "new rules of lifting for women", they explain it quite well. That dumb little story about a box of books was all me though lol

teagin2002

my goal is to tone and lean out, meaning decrease the fat on top of the muscle to expose the muscle underneath. I lift as much weight as I can, while preserving good form, to only be able to do 12 to 15 reps, if I can do more reps I will increase the weight by 5lbs.
As for food I make sure to stay deficit at least 400 cals from my BMR at light activity level by the end of the day.
As a woman we can not bulk up because we do not have the testosterone to do so, women who do bulk up are taking aids and supplements to do so luv.

I hope this helps :flowerforyou:

HeidiMightyRawr

Generally speaking:

lower rep range (3-6 ish) : Power/Strength
Moderate rep range (8-12) Hypertrophy/size
High rep range (15+): Endurance

This!...

4-6 reps is great for building strength and power (but will build some size)
6-10 is great for putting on mass/size (but will increase some strength)
12-15 is more about endurance conditioning (small gains in size and strength)

...and this!

However, to build muscle you also need a surplus of calories. It is VERY hard to gain muscle while on a deficit. If your aim is to lose weight, then I'm assuming your on a deficit, in which case you really don't need to worry about getting bulky. All lifting with do, is make you stronger and it will help you to maintain the muscle you already have (which people usually lose while dieting)

Lift heavy (if you want to) I'd highly recommend it! Just don't let the gaining muscle issue stop you because there are so many benefits
Although I will add that I wouldn't really count P90x as "heavy lifting". You can do the heavier rep ranges of course, but it's not the same as the standard heavy lifting programs that many people follow, with a barbell and compound lifts (as a previous poster mentioned)

ArroganceInStep

Females will not get bulky unless they are trying REALLY hard, by that I mean taking steroids, lifting for hours every day, and eating a very careful diet with all sorts of supplements.

Doing 12-15 reps won't build muscle size, nor will it get you very strong.

If you want to look strong, that means BEING strong, by lifting heavy things, 8-10 reps or even 4-6 reps<-- better. Think about it this way: You can pick up something heavy, like a big box of books, and put it down again 4-6 times, and then you'll be tired and you won't want to pick it up any more. So your body responds by repairing the muscles so that the next time you pick it up it will be easier. If you pick up something light, on the other hand, like a gallon of milk, you could probably do that all day and your body will respond by doing pretty much nothing.

Since you're already doing 8-10 reps, I'd say start with that for a month or so, increading the resistance as soon as it feels easy. Watch your body to take note of any changes, and if you see yourself getting "bulky" by your definition, you can always back off on the weight. I REALLY doubt that's doing to happen, but you'll never know until you try.

You'll lose fat as you gain muscle, especially if you adjust your diet so you're getting percentages of carbohydrates/fat/protien = 40/30/30. But you also need to make sure you are eating enough calories because your body needs it to repair and build more muscle.

Check your library for a book called "new rules of lifting for women", they explain it quite well. That dumb little story about a box of books was all me though lol

While I agree with you for the most part, building muscle endurance (high rep lifting) isn't a pointless endeavor and has value in a variety of circumstances.

Maxing bang for your buck when focused on body recomposition, however, I think you're right.

steve1686

pic is relevant, right-click view image to see the whole thing

teagin2002

pic is relevant
[mg]http://i55.tinypic.com/357ocie.jpg[ig]

smaller size:

raiderrodney

If you gain muscle fast you should focus on higher reps (15-20). I have a couple of lady friends that do indeed get fairly bulky from P90X or bootcamp type workouts. But unless you're doing heavy lifting (3-6 reps) until failure you're not going to see major size increases. Not to say you aren't going to see just how big your muscles are from all the cardio you're doing because you'll be cutting up

ArroganceInStep

If you gain muscle fast you should focus on higher reps (15-20). I have a couple of lady friends that do indeed get fairly bulky from P90X or bootcamp type workouts. But unless you're doing heavy lifting (3-6 reps) until failure you're not going to see major size increases. Not to say you aren't going to see just how big your muscles are from all the cardio you're doing because you'll be cutting up

How do you know if you 'gain muscle fast'?

raiderrodney

If you gain muscle fast you should focus on higher reps (15-20). I have a couple of lady friends that do indeed get fairly bulky from P90X or bootcamp type workouts. But unless you're doing heavy lifting (3-6 reps) until failure you're not going to see major size increases. Not to say you aren't going to see just how big your muscles are from all the cardio you're doing because you'll be cutting up

How do you know if you 'gain muscle fast'?

Well she had said in her initial post "I already have a thicker type body style, and I tend to build muscles fast."

ArroganceInStep

Well she had said in her initial post "I already have a thicker type body style, and I tend to build muscles fast."

A lot of people say things like that, many are mistaken.

crisanderson27

my goal is to tone and lean out, meaning decrease the fat on top of the muscle to expose the muscle underneath. I lift as much weight as I can, while preserving good form, to only be able to do 12 to 15 reps, if I can do more reps I will increase the weight by 5lbs.
As for food I make sure to stay deficit at least 400 cals from my BMR at light activity level by the end of the day.
As a woman we can not bulk up because we do not have the testosterone to do so, women who do bulk up are taking aids and supplements to do so luv.

I hope this helps :flowerforyou:

Lifting heavy will lean you out much more quickly, particularly if you're eating on a deficit. 5-8 reps. You can throw in 12-15rep sets every third or so workout, just to change things up if you like...but it's not necessary for leaning out.

If you gain muscle fast you should focus on higher reps (15-20). I have a couple of lady friends that do indeed get fairly bulky from P90X or bootcamp type workouts. But unless you're doing heavy lifting (3-6 reps) until failure you're not going to see major size increases. Not to say you aren't going to see just how big your muscles are from all the cardio you're doing because you'll be cutting up

How do you know if you 'gain muscle fast'?

Well she had said in her initial post "I already have a thicker type body style, and I tend to build muscles fast."

Which is a typical mosconception many women have about their own bodies. 90% of people in general think that they are building muscle by lifting weights, when what they're actually doing is training their existing muscle to respond to stimulus efficiently. This makes them stronger, but doesn't in fact build...anything.

raiderrodney

Well she had said in her initial post "I already have a thicker type body style, and I tend to build muscles fast."

A lot of people say things like that, many are mistaken.

All you can do is offer your opinion on the info that's given.

TrophyWifeSass

<----not bulky yet and I lift heavy low reps.