veggies vs. fruits

missikay1970

i have read alot of posts regarding fruits being high in sugar (albeit "good" sugar) but haven't really learned much about veggies. i realize corn is high in sugar, but what about veggies such as broccoli, squash, peppers, etc.? could i cut-out all fruit, eat veggies only and still get the nutrition i need? i have always assumed we have to have BOTH fruit and veggies as a balanced diet, but perhaps cutting fruit might help me kick this plateau.

(when i say "veggies only" i mean, veggies in addition to dairy and meat. i was meaning veggies only vs. veggies + fruit.)

Glucocorticoid

Sugar is not the reason you are plateauing.

missikay1970

Sugar is not the reason you are plateauing.

i am doing alot of different things to try to break the plateau, but this is just one area that i wanted to work on.

Glucocorticoid

Understandable, but what is there to work on in this area? Sugar is not evil and it's not the reason your weight loss has stalled.

10KEyes

i have read alot of posts regarding fruits being high in sugar (albeit "good" sugar) but haven't really learned much about veggies. i realize corn is high in sugar, but what about veggies such as broccoli, squash, peppers, etc.? could i cut-out all fruit, eat veggies only and still get the nutrition i need? i have always assumed we have to have BOTH fruit and veggies as a balanced diet, but perhaps cutting fruit might help me kick this plateau.

(when i say "veggies only" i mean, veggies in addition to dairy and meat. i was meaning veggies only vs. veggies + fruit.)

Well, sugar can be a problem. Sugar raises insulin and insulin promotes storage to fat cells (although insulin is vital to health). If you can keep your insulin reasonably low and steady it will smooth out many things. Not to mention, frequent large spikes in insulin doesn't bode well for the body.

I would say "Plenty of veggies and limited fruit".

missikay1970

Understandable, but what is there to work on in this area? Sugar is not evil and it's not the reason your weight loss has stalled.

i guess i just really should have left-out the "plateau" comment because what i really want to know is:

is it healthy to eat veggies only in lieu of veggies + fruits; or is there something in fruit that we actually "NEED" that i would be missing-out on?

missikay1970

I would say "Plenty of veggies and limited fruit".

thank you

10KEyes

Understandable, but what is there to work on in this area? Sugar is not evil and it's not the reason your weight loss has stalled.

i guess i just really should have left-out the "plateau" comment because what i really want to know is:

is it healthy to eat veggies only in lieu of veggies + fruits?

You could, but there are some vital and essential nutrients that are found in fruits. I wouldn't necessarily cut fruit out altogether, just limit them. I kind of look at fruit as a healthy "Nature's candy".

Glucocorticoid

i have read alot of posts regarding fruits being high in sugar (albeit "good" sugar) but haven't really learned much about veggies. i realize corn is high in sugar, but what about veggies such as broccoli, squash, peppers, etc.? could i cut-out all fruit, eat veggies only and still get the nutrition i need? i have always assumed we have to have BOTH fruit and veggies as a balanced diet, but perhaps cutting fruit might help me kick this plateau.

(when i say "veggies only" i mean, veggies in addition to dairy and meat. i was meaning veggies only vs. veggies + fruit.)

Well, sugar can be a problem. Sugar raises insulin and insulin promotes storage to fat cells (although insulin is vital to health). If you can keep your insulin reasonably low and steady it will smooth out many things. Not to mention, frequent large spikes in insulin doesn't bode well for the body.

I would say "Plenty of veggies and limited fruit".

Protein raises insulin too. You are vastly oversimplifying.

10KEyes

Protein raises insulin too. You are vastly oversimplifying.

Certainly it does.... However, insulin response to protein is 50% to 70% less than it is for refined carbohydrate rich foods. Yes even that whole wheat bread is refined.

So tell me just how I oversimplified it?

In fact veggies and fruit have about a 70% to 90% less insulin response than refined carbohydrate rich foods.

missikay1970

Protein raises insulin too. You are vastly oversimplifying.

Certainly it does.... However, insulin response to protein is 50% to 70% less than it is for refined carbohydrate rich foods. Yes even that whole wheat bread is refined.

So tell me just how I oversimplified it?

In fact veggies and fruit have about a 70% to 90% less insulin response than refined carbohydrate rich foods.

so broccoli would be better than corn, which is better than a banana, which is better than a Lay's potato chip.

i honestly thank you for your replies...i am new to this, and appreciate the input. :flowerforyou:

Glucocorticoid

Protein raises insulin too. You are vastly oversimplifying.

Certainly it does.... However, insulin response to protein is 50% to 70% less than it is for refined carbohydrate rich foods. Yes even that whole wheat bread is refined.

So tell me just how I oversimplified it?

In fact veggies and fruit have about a 70% to 90% less insulin response than refined carbohydrate rich foods.

I am mainly taking issue with the fact that you're giving her incomplete information. In particular, saying "sugar raises insulin and insulin promotes storage to fat cells". Even though you said "insulin is vital to health", what kind of impression does this give her? Insulin/sugar = bad. Does it not? Why not mention some other facts such as:

1. Fat can be stored WITHOUT increasing insulin.
2. She can still get fat without eating sugar
3. Caloric surpluses cause fat gain, not sugar.

missikay1970

Protein raises insulin too. You are vastly oversimplifying.

Certainly it does.... However, insulin response to protein is 50% to 70% less than it is for refined carbohydrate rich foods. Yes even that whole wheat bread is refined.

So tell me just how I oversimplified it?

In fact veggies and fruit have about a 70% to 90% less insulin response than refined carbohydrate rich foods.

I am mainly taking issue with the fact that you're giving her incomplete information. In particular, saying "sugar raises insulin and insulin promotes storage to fat cells". Even though you said "insulin is vital to health", what kind of impression does this give her? Insulin/sugar = bad. Does it not? Why not mention some other facts such as:

1. Fat can be stored WITHOUT increasing insulin.
2. She can still get fat without eating sugar
3. Caloric surpluses cause fat gain, not sugar.

i appreciate your input as well, however, my main question posed was regarding the lack of fruits in my diet and any negative effect this might have. i have lost 40 lbs, so i do have an overall healthy diet & exercise regime, but i am trying to fine-tune things to lose my last 8 lbs. i realize this is all important, however, i just really needed to know if eating "veggies only" is ok...are there people who don't eat fruit at all and live healthy lives? or is fruit really necessary? i REALLY regret inserting information about my plateau! LOL

violetsue

Continue to eat the fruit, just in limited amounts or mix the with a fat or protein to slow the rise in blood sugar. Berries, citrus and other fruits are extremely high in nutrients and antioxidants.

missikay1970

Continue to eat the fruit, just in limited amounts or mix the with a fat or protein to slow the rise in blood sugar. Berries, citrus and other fruits are extremely high in nutrients and antioxidants.

ok, so fruit with a greek yogurt high in protein might be a good choice. i never thought about eating with good fats to slow blood sugar. that makes sense, thanks. i LOVE berries, too!

10KEyes

I am mainly taking issue with the fact that you're giving her incomplete information. In particular, saying "sugar raises insulin and insulin promotes storage to fat cells". Even though you said "insulin is vital to health", what kind of impression does this give her? Insulin/sugar = bad. Does it not? Why not mention some other facts such as:

1. Fat can be stored WITHOUT increasing insulin.
2. She can still get fat without eating sugar
3. Caloric surpluses cause fat gain, not sugar.

Honestly, I wasn't intending to lay it out academically.

As for your points...

1. Yes, it can, but it requires insulin.
2. Yes, she could get fat without eating sugar (as in sucrose and fructose), however, it is harder in the absence of high density carbohydrates.
3. Not necessarily. It depends on the macros.

spngebobmyhero

First, corn is a grain, not a vegetable.

Second, you can get everything from veggies that you can get from fruit. Fruit was rare before agriculture and people would eat it when they could get it, but that wasn't often. If you don't want to get the insulin spike from the sugar, then you don't have to eat it.

Starchy veggies (potatoes, squash) will have a higher insulin response than spinach, broccoli, etc.

I barely eat any fruit. I'll have some about once a week. I'm healthier than I ever was and 36 pounds lighter.

If you want to eat fruit, stick with lower sugar berries

nutritionwhiz

Fruits and veggies have lots of the same things...fiber, vitamins, minerals etc. The DIFFERENT colors of each are where they differ in terms of micro nutrients...so strive to get a variety of different color veggies to make up for anything you might be missing by limiting fruits and remember the darker the color the more nutrients!

gogojodee

I've never liked fruit, I've always favored veggies - partially due to all the fruit/seedy allergies I have. Now that I'm eating healhier, definitely NOT craving fruit and I usually have some every couple of days and when I first started it helped me drop weight quickly (the not having fruit). Overtime I think it's the same concept and ultimately, I think it would be good and helpful for mainaining. Just my $0.02!

missikay1970

I've never liked fruit, I've always favored veggies - partially due to all the fruit/seedy allergies I have. Now that I'm eating healhier, definitely NOT craving fruit and I usually have some every couple of days and when I first started it helped me drop weight quickly (the not having fruit). Overtime I think it's the same concept and ultimately, I think it would be good and helpful for mainaining. Just my $0.02!

thanks! i do actually eat alot of fruit, i was trying to be healthy, but started reading posts about the high sugar and something clicked. i think it's worth a shot to go without (or very little) for a while and see what happens.

missikay1970

First, corn is a grain, not a vegetable.

Second, you can get everything from veggies that you can get from fruit. Fruit was rare before agriculture and people would eat it when they could get it, but that wasn't often. If you don't want to get the insulin spike from the sugar, then you don't have to eat it.

Starchy veggies (potatoes, squash) will have a higher insulin response than spinach, broccoli, etc.

I barely eat any fruit. I'll have some about once a week. I'm healthier than I ever was and 36 pounds lighter.

If you want to eat fruit, stick with lower sugar berries

well, yes, corn isn't a veggie properly, but is usually grouped in with potatoes and the like. i was just giving generalities, and asking about the overall fruit group vs. veggie group.

i love the berries idea - thanks!!!

missikay1970

Fruits and veggies have lots of the same things...fiber, vitamins, minerals etc. The DIFFERENT colors of each are where they differ in terms of micro nutrients...so strive to get a variety of different color veggies to make up for anything you might be missing by limiting fruits and remember the darker the color the more nutrients!

that is where i need work - variety! hoping the spring and summer will bring some new stuff to my store!

Glucocorticoid

I am mainly taking issue with the fact that you're giving her incomplete information. In particular, saying "sugar raises insulin and insulin promotes storage to fat cells". Even though you said "insulin is vital to health", what kind of impression does this give her? Insulin/sugar = bad. Does it not? Why not mention some other facts such as:

1. Fat can be stored WITHOUT increasing insulin.
2. She can still get fat without eating sugar
3. Caloric surpluses cause fat gain, not sugar.

Honestly, I wasn't intending to lay it out academically.

As for your points...

1. Yes, it can, but it requires insulin.
2. Yes, she could get fat without eating sugar (as in sucrose and fructose), however, it is harder in the absence of high density carbohydrates.
3. Not necessarily. It depends on the macros.

1. I just said it does NOT require insulin. Google acylation stimulating protein (ASP)
2. Depends on the person, still doesn't change the fact that you're demonizing sugar/insulin.
3. Can you elaborate?

10KEyes

3. Can you elaborate?

With very little insulin in the blood stream large quantities of fat is burned off by the body instead transporting it to fat cells. Without enough insulin to transport the fat the body's only alternative is to elevate the metabolism to remove the the fat. This breaks the calorie deficit claim. So you can literally consume more calories than your body needs as long as you consume the appropriate macro nutrient ratios.

With all the complications of chronically high levels of insulin in the body it seems very clear to me that fat is the ideal fuel for the body.

Sabine_Stroehm

Here's my take: Eat lots of green leafy vegetables, cruciferous vegetables, and varied colored vegetables. Try cutting back on fruit (and juice if you drink that) and see how YOU feel. I'm more of a vegetable than fruit person, because for me it works. I do eat fruit, but I'm in the "nature's candy" camp. If you want fruit try melons and berries versus, say an orange, and just see how it goes.

I'm a firm believer that everyone's constitution is different (if it weren't we wouldn't have allergies and intolerances). Part of what makes MAINTENANCE successful is knowing what works for you.

my .02.

Glucocorticoid

3. Can you elaborate?

With very little insulin in the blood stream large quantities of fat is burned off by the body instead transporting it to fat cells. Without enough insulin to transport the fat the body's only alternative is to elevate the metabolism to remove the the fat. This breaks the calorie deficit claim. So you can literally consume more calories than your body needs as long as you consume the appropriate macro nutrient ratios.

With all the complications of chronically high levels of insulin in the body it seems very clear to me that fat is the ideal fuel for the body.

So are you saying you can eat dietary fat all day and not get fat?
What about #1? You did not address it. The body can store fat WITHOUT changing insulin levels (acylation stimulating protein). ASP can be increased not only from insulin, but also if there is fat in the bloodstream. So eat JUST fat (which does not increase insulin) and eat at a caloric surplus and guess what? You store fat. Insulin is not the only issue. It is nice to just blame insulin, but to do so is simplistic and wrong.
Excess CALORIES make people fat, and certain types of food may make certain people overeat calories.