Let's talk about Creatine
PercivalHackworth
Posts: 1,437 Member
History
Creatine has been discovered in 1832, by a french chimist, Michel Chevreul, a couple of years later, researchs towards it increased, but it is only during the mid 90's that researches increased importantly. In 1912, at Harvard, Willey Glover and Otto Folin started to conduct research about the link between creatine and performance in the sports world, and couple of years later, creatine phosphate was discoverd .
Nowadays though, we still lack of impact of creatine on a long-term basis on the health. International Olympic Comity and most of the sport associations allow that substance to be used
The success of creatine supplement could be explained with two factors :
1- Marketing
The supplement industry over-promoted that supplement, making it as the ultimate-legit product to take to enhance your performances. The idea took place that the product was essential for an optimum performance.
2- Athletes
Since creatine really provides expected results, athletes keep using it :-) there have been associations from athletic performances and the athletes taking creatine supplement - quickly over years, a rush to the supplement took place. In 2004, an average of 4 000 tons was sold.
How does it work
In order to make the muscles work (eg - contract) you need energy. The ATP (Adenosine Triphosphate) being produced is issued from the oxidation of several energy compounds :
- Glucose, from the musculary glycogen
- Fatty acids, from the adipose tissues
- Phosphate creatine, from the protein intakes. The body contains around 120 g.
(Red meat contains few amount of creatine (1g of creatine for 250g of read meat)).
# ATP in action
In order to understand, keep in mind there is a direct relation from an energetic compound and both performance and fatigue. Before going further, we can for instance, in the same methodology, present the glycogen surcompensation that aims to increase up to 20% the glycogen stores (technique used by endurance athletes in order to maintain longer efforts by increasing glycogen storage). Same goes for the creatine , researchs showed that creatine supplementation could increase the creatine phosphate storage up to 30%.
Let's present that relation between the energy available and an effort :
The ATP degradation/ usage is quite simple :
ATP is called such because it contains three phosphate ions. When ATP is used, two compounds are produced :
- The energy being used by the muscle
- A leftover : ADP, Adenosine Diphosphate.
By losing an ion, ATP becomes ADP.
That last cannot be used as an energy source as such, but when an extra ion phosphate is binded to it, it becomes back an ATP.
# Creatine supplement
When creatine is taken as a supplement, or synthesized, it turns to creatine phosphate. Meaning it has an available ion phosphate. The creatine in the muscle is then able to cease its phosphate ion to ADP making the transformation to ATP possible.
In a short term, you increase your ability to perform more powerfull efforts (repetitions typically, or even HIIT), and you not only provide more energy, you are also more able to maintain it by enhancing the ATP renewal.
Creatine synthesis
Creatine is an oligo-peptide, the synthesis is made via three amino-acids :
- Glycine
- Arginine
- Methionine
That synthesis is not a priotary one for the body, it simply means that when you are tired or ill, the creatine synthesis decreases, as it has been observed that creatine levels was lower for athletes/ BB than the average population. When intakes are adequates and rest, creatine levels increase, without even supplementation.
In order to enhance protein synthesis, you need to ensure proper cells energy levels, once this has been done, protein synthesis can occur.
And here comes creatine supplementation. Such improves glycogen storage but also muscular fibers recovery.
But creatine is also able to increase the strength - from 5 to 15%. But beware, since the strength happens in a short time, as we saw, this doesn't mean a muscle increase (you don't synthesize muscles fibers in minutes
). Even todays, studies are not sure about the exact mecanism implied, the most probable being a relation with the calcium pump. (Calcium being led to the sarcoplasmic membrane of the cells when ATP is hydrolised)
Creatine and weight gain
There is a link between that strength gain and a weigh gain, being water retention within the cells.
By stopping the supplementation, you would lose the gained water.
Why would I stop it ?
We need to distinguish the two effects of the creatine :
- on the short term
- on a long term
And this is where the magic of creatine is :
By maintaining longer and more intensive effort, via the creatine, you are likely to train more efficiently, which would lead to muscles gain. Creatine doesn't make you gain muscles, but the efforts it allows lead an increase to muscles
Other effects
- One another interesting effect of creatine is its ability to increase IGF production (Insuline-Like Growth Factor, an anabolic hormone), but also MGF production (Mecano Growth Factor, one another anabolic hormone).
- An increased activity of the musculary satelites cells, being responsible for tissue repair and growth
- As we saw, an increased glycogen synthesis within the muscles
- Delayed catabolism of the leucine amino-acid
Creatine in your routine
By including creatine supplementation into your training, you make all these effects possible, with decreased recovery periods, and more energy during your trainings (Strenght trainings but also sexual trainings) leadning for a given time in muscles gain.
For a starter, because of the extra energy creatine provides, an average of 2 lbs of lean mass gain is possible per month (TOPS), but most of the studies show that for the other categories, do not expect more than 1lb within a couple of months, as usual, there are bunches of factors :
- Hormonal regulation
- Age
- Gender
- Activity level
- Nutrition
How to take it ?
If you are a starter, take around 3g per day, around 5g if you are a regular.
- Don't cycle it
- During the resting day, it is possible to take it, 2g if you take 3g, and 3g if you take 5g
- Have it with with a cup of water and food
- Try to split the daily intake, for instance 1g per meal, or 2g per meal if you are in IF
- Try to only take monohydrate creatine
In the second parts of that post, I'll present some comon myths about creatine (cycle, absorption, caffeine, creatine ethyl, etc...)
Creatine has been discovered in 1832, by a french chimist, Michel Chevreul, a couple of years later, researchs towards it increased, but it is only during the mid 90's that researches increased importantly. In 1912, at Harvard, Willey Glover and Otto Folin started to conduct research about the link between creatine and performance in the sports world, and couple of years later, creatine phosphate was discoverd .
Nowadays though, we still lack of impact of creatine on a long-term basis on the health. International Olympic Comity and most of the sport associations allow that substance to be used
The success of creatine supplement could be explained with two factors :
1- Marketing
The supplement industry over-promoted that supplement, making it as the ultimate-legit product to take to enhance your performances. The idea took place that the product was essential for an optimum performance.
2- Athletes
Since creatine really provides expected results, athletes keep using it :-) there have been associations from athletic performances and the athletes taking creatine supplement - quickly over years, a rush to the supplement took place. In 2004, an average of 4 000 tons was sold.
How does it work
In order to make the muscles work (eg - contract) you need energy. The ATP (Adenosine Triphosphate) being produced is issued from the oxidation of several energy compounds :
- Glucose, from the musculary glycogen
- Fatty acids, from the adipose tissues
- Phosphate creatine, from the protein intakes. The body contains around 120 g.
(Red meat contains few amount of creatine (1g of creatine for 250g of read meat)).
# ATP in action
In order to understand, keep in mind there is a direct relation from an energetic compound and both performance and fatigue. Before going further, we can for instance, in the same methodology, present the glycogen surcompensation that aims to increase up to 20% the glycogen stores (technique used by endurance athletes in order to maintain longer efforts by increasing glycogen storage). Same goes for the creatine , researchs showed that creatine supplementation could increase the creatine phosphate storage up to 30%.
Let's present that relation between the energy available and an effort :
The ATP degradation/ usage is quite simple :
ATP is called such because it contains three phosphate ions. When ATP is used, two compounds are produced :
- The energy being used by the muscle
- A leftover : ADP, Adenosine Diphosphate.
By losing an ion, ATP becomes ADP.
That last cannot be used as an energy source as such, but when an extra ion phosphate is binded to it, it becomes back an ATP.
# Creatine supplement
When creatine is taken as a supplement, or synthesized, it turns to creatine phosphate. Meaning it has an available ion phosphate. The creatine in the muscle is then able to cease its phosphate ion to ADP making the transformation to ATP possible.
In a short term, you increase your ability to perform more powerfull efforts (repetitions typically, or even HIIT), and you not only provide more energy, you are also more able to maintain it by enhancing the ATP renewal.
Creatine synthesis
Creatine is an oligo-peptide, the synthesis is made via three amino-acids :
- Glycine
- Arginine
- Methionine
That synthesis is not a priotary one for the body, it simply means that when you are tired or ill, the creatine synthesis decreases, as it has been observed that creatine levels was lower for athletes/ BB than the average population. When intakes are adequates and rest, creatine levels increase, without even supplementation.
In order to enhance protein synthesis, you need to ensure proper cells energy levels, once this has been done, protein synthesis can occur.
And here comes creatine supplementation. Such improves glycogen storage but also muscular fibers recovery.
But creatine is also able to increase the strength - from 5 to 15%. But beware, since the strength happens in a short time, as we saw, this doesn't mean a muscle increase (you don't synthesize muscles fibers in minutes
). Even todays, studies are not sure about the exact mecanism implied, the most probable being a relation with the calcium pump. (Calcium being led to the sarcoplasmic membrane of the cells when ATP is hydrolised)Creatine and weight gain
There is a link between that strength gain and a weigh gain, being water retention within the cells.
By stopping the supplementation, you would lose the gained water.
Why would I stop it ?
We need to distinguish the two effects of the creatine :
- on the short term
- on a long term
And this is where the magic of creatine is :
By maintaining longer and more intensive effort, via the creatine, you are likely to train more efficiently, which would lead to muscles gain. Creatine doesn't make you gain muscles, but the efforts it allows lead an increase to muscles
Other effects
- One another interesting effect of creatine is its ability to increase IGF production (Insuline-Like Growth Factor, an anabolic hormone), but also MGF production (Mecano Growth Factor, one another anabolic hormone).
- An increased activity of the musculary satelites cells, being responsible for tissue repair and growth
- As we saw, an increased glycogen synthesis within the muscles
- Delayed catabolism of the leucine amino-acid
Creatine in your routine
By including creatine supplementation into your training, you make all these effects possible, with decreased recovery periods, and more energy during your trainings (Strenght trainings but also sexual trainings) leadning for a given time in muscles gain.
For a starter, because of the extra energy creatine provides, an average of 2 lbs of lean mass gain is possible per month (TOPS), but most of the studies show that for the other categories, do not expect more than 1lb within a couple of months, as usual, there are bunches of factors :
- Hormonal regulation
- Age
- Gender
- Activity level
- Nutrition
How to take it ?
If you are a starter, take around 3g per day, around 5g if you are a regular.
- Don't cycle it
- During the resting day, it is possible to take it, 2g if you take 3g, and 3g if you take 5g
- Have it with with a cup of water and food
- Try to split the daily intake, for instance 1g per meal, or 2g per meal if you are in IF
- Try to only take monohydrate creatine
In the second parts of that post, I'll present some comon myths about creatine (cycle, absorption, caffeine, creatine ethyl, etc...)
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Replies
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This is good information for members of this site that aren't all that familiar with creatine to read. I've also read recently that researchers are finding evidence that creatine is helpful in counteracting heart disease and there were some other diseases as well but I can't recall or find the article at this point. Creatine is definitely one of the few good supplements and it's dirt cheap.0
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Great read, thank you.
But I always thought that creatine was only beneficial to heavy weight lifters. Is this true? Or can everyone benefit from it?0 -
Used it last year with good results for muscle growth. NOT good for slimmers though! Loads of bloating and water retention of course. Stomach cramps at first but not for too long.
I'm not sure about long term use though, expensive for one thing!
Drink plenty of water. I used capsules but I've heard that powder is better???0 -
Nope, not any difference between pills and powderUsed it last year with good results for muscle growth. NOT good for slimmers though! Loads of bloating and water retention of course. Stomach cramps at first but not for too long.
I'm not sure about long term use though, expensive for one thing!
Drink plenty of water. I used capsules but I've heard that powder is better???
Yes it causes for some people inconveniences I will present in the second part of the post 0 -
For weight loss, it is not an interesting supplement, since its main role being the increase in energy production, during a deficit period, (for a cut) it help to maintain creatine levels that a deficit decrease, but its main interest is the muscle gain, that doesn't really happen on a deficit.Great read, thank you.
But I always thought that creatine was only beneficial to heavy weight lifters. Is this true? Or can everyone benefit from it?0 -
This is good information for members of this site that aren't all that familiar with creatine to read. I've also read recently that researchers are finding evidence that creatine is helpful in counteracting heart disease and there were some other diseases as well but I can't recall or find the article at this point. Creatine is definitely one of the few good supplements and it's dirt cheap.
I recall such, but i'll dig more, thanks0 -
Thanks for the read !!0
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You rock...
I actually understood this!0 -
Thank you for bringing this subject into the forums! I have been so curious to find out what I could about it. I've done some research but am still a long way from understanding it all.
I'm a 49 year old woman, I began working out in the gym with weights about 6 weeks ago. I initially starting increasing my protein to help enhance my workouts and hopefully make them more productive. I use it before and after my workouts. Then a couple of weeks ago, I added creatine to my arsenal. I take 3 tablets in the morning (3031 mgs), then about an hour before my workout I take con-cret creatine powder (1 1/2 scoops = 1000mg or creatine HCI 750mg and in all honestly have no idea what all that means, just copying it off the bottle) then another 3 tablets after the workout (3031mgs). I'm wanting to lose weight but more than anything I want to gain muscle. I don't want to be a flabby grandmother anymore. I'm losing inches regardless so I'm happy!0 -
:flowerforyou:You rock...
I actually understood this!0 -
Thank you for bringing this subject into the forums! I have been so curious to find out what I could about it. I've done some research but am still a long way from understanding it all.
I'm a 49 year old woman, I began working out in the gym with weights about 6 weeks ago. I initially starting increasing my protein to help enhance my workouts and hopefully make them more productive. I use it before and after my workouts. Then a couple of weeks ago, I added creatine to my arsenal. I take 3 tablets in the morning (3031 mgs), then about an hour before my workout I take con-cret creatine powder (1 1/2 scoops = 1000mg or creatine HCI 750mg and in all honestly have no idea what all that means, just copying it off the bottle) then another 3 tablets after the workout (3031mgs). I'm wanting to lose weight but more than anything I want to gain muscle. I don't want to be a flabby grandmother anymore. I'm losing inches regardless so I'm happy!
Some studies showed above 40 years old (and average) the creatine supplementation is less interesting.
As for your intakes, there are huge ones, and it is not interesting (may I say useless) the phosphate creatine stores being limited.
Aim 3 grams, 1g per per meal, and as we saw, the powder or the pills are exactly the same :-)
You could even try a mix between red meat and creatine supplementation.
edit : also for muscles gain, surplus first, supplement after :-) Creatine won't give the gain we saw if you are in deficit0 -
thank you!!0
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Great thread!0
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Great thread!
Agree! As always!! Looking froward to part 2.0 -
Bookmarking this for a later read. Thank you for posting it!0
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Thank you for bringing this subject into the forums! I have been so curious to find out what I could about it. I've done some research but am still a long way from understanding it all.
I'm a 49 year old woman, I began working out in the gym with weights about 6 weeks ago. I initially starting increasing my protein to help enhance my workouts and hopefully make them more productive. I use it before and after my workouts. Then a couple of weeks ago, I added creatine to my arsenal. I take 3 tablets in the morning (3031 mgs), then about an hour before my workout I take con-cret creatine powder (1 1/2 scoops = 1000mg or creatine HCI 750mg and in all honestly have no idea what all that means, just copying it off the bottle) then another 3 tablets after the workout (3031mgs). I'm wanting to lose weight but more than anything I want to gain muscle. I don't want to be a flabby grandmother anymore. I'm losing inches regardless so I'm happy!
Some studies showed above 40 years old (and average) the creatine supplementation is less interesting.
As for your intakes, there are huge ones, and it is not interesting (may I say useless) the phosphate creatine stores being limited.
Aim 3 grams, 1g per per meal, and as we saw, the powder or the pills are exactly the same :-)
You could even try a mix between red meat and creatine supplementation.
edit : also for muscles gain, surplus first, supplement after :-) Creatine won't give the gain we saw if you are in deficit
Hey I was totally wrong when I was saying above a certain age you lose the benefits of the supplement, sorry.
In fact for both young and seniors, Creatine DOES help to increase performance due to an increased of that last for the two categories :-)
Conclusions
Though there is a higher loss of muscle mass and strength with age, small amounts of creatine added to the diet are beneficial to older men, as it is in younger men. In fact, the improvement is markedly more in the older men. Muscle mass and lean tissue mass improve further when creatine is taken in combination with a protein supplement. Creatine consumption in small amounts, only on training days, brings down the production of harmful byproducts like formaldehyde to safe levels. Creatine also reduces catabolism or breakdown of muscle protein and bone tissue. In older men as in younger men, creatine helps preserve muscle health.
Read more at FYI Living: http://www.fyiliving.com/research/creatine-with-protein-helps-strength-training-for-older-men/#ixzz1wEzdFcZq
http://www.fyiliving.com/research/creatine-with-protein-helps-strength-training-for-older-men/
So yes bruv, better to have it, it'll help to continue muscle synthesis along time.
Make sure you have it for an enough time.
The only recommendation I could provide is the following :
As we saw, supplementation could cease creatine production, if the supplement helps you to break PR, you would make sure not to try to lift the same weight the day you don't have it. Simply because we don't really know it the produced levels are the same as the supplement brings, meaning you could hurt yourself :-)0 -
Bump0
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bumping to keep in the loop0
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