Info on using Creatine, Glutamine, and Protein

Matt_Wild

http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/280/6/E982.short

http://www.jappl.org/content/82/6/1882.short

http://journals.lww.com/acsm-csmr/Abstract/2002/08000/The_Role_of_Protein_and_Amino_Acid_Supplements_in.5.aspx

Just a few. I'm sure you could find a few counter arguments too. Point is, it works for me.

chrishgt4

Question regarding this then.

I take 2 protein shakes per day - One in the morning with breakfast and one in the evening.

On workout days I take it as soon as I get in. On non-workout days I take it with evening meal which is normally an hour or so before bed.

The suggestions above give like 4 different times to have it (immediately after waking, before workout, after workout and before bed).

Am I better halving the amounts and having half a shake at those times? He lists the best 2 times as after workout and before bed - which fall within a couple of hours space for me so I can't see how that would work for me.

Or given that my workouts are evening time, am I doing it as best I can given my routine?

Matt_Wild

Chris, I'd personally run the following:

Waking: L- Glutamine (at 0.35 x BW in KG) if being used or if one can afford it, 10g EAA's. 20-30 mins later I'd have my whey.

PreWO: 10g EAA and 10g BCAA

IntraWO: 20-30g BCAA (0.25 x BW in kg for optimal figure)

PostWO: 30-40g of whey blend (fast and slow digesting proteins) (see http://www.fasebj.org/cgi/content/meeting_abstract/26/1_MeetingAbstracts/1013.9?sid=ae665bae-7f22-415a-b638-70f25b3fc06b)

PreBed - 30-40g Casein or whey blend


When I say before meals I mean at least 10-15 minutes before on as empty a stomach as possible. They do their signaling when not competing with other complete proteins. Look into studies done by Eric Serrano. His lab research shows 10 grams of EAA's to be the anabolic equivalent of 40+ grams of protein.

Matt_Wild

I should DEFO point out, you don't have to do this. You may notice a 5-10% difference in real terms in muscular gains etc over a period of a year or two. Whether the net cost is worth it to you, it is up to you.

It matters to me, its my position to look a certain whey and for my clients to appreciate me as a coach. It literally pays my bills for the difference the powders can give over time.

chrishgt4

Chris, I'd personally run the following:

Waking: L- Glutamine (at 0.35 x BW in KG) if being used or if one can afford it, 10g EAA's. 20-30 mins later I'd have my whey.

PreWO: 10g EAA and 10g BCAA

IntraWO: 20-30g BCAA (0.25 x BW in kg for optimal figure)

PostWO: 30-40g of whey blend (fast and slow digesting proteins) (see http://www.fasebj.org/cgi/content/meeting_abstract/26/1_MeetingAbstracts/1013.9?sid=ae665bae-7f22-415a-b638-70f25b3fc06b)

PreBed - 30-40g Casein or whey blend


When I say before meals I mean at least 10-15 minutes before on as empty a stomach as possible. They do their signaling when not competing with other complete proteins. Look into studies done by Eric Serrano. His lab research shows 10 grams of EAA's to be the anabolic equivalent of 40+ grams of protein.

Cheers Matt.

Protein shakes I always tend to have with or just after a meal, so I'll switch that up and start getting them in first.

The other stuff may be a bit prohibitively expensive, but I'll have a look at cost and try to get that in as well. If not now then definitely in the future.

I got some M Casein protein for pre bed, but got the unflavoured variety thinking I could easily flavour it myself but I've not worked out how to effectively flavour so it's still sat in the tub.

Have you flavoured yourself? and if so, how? I went for vanilla essence but I had to put the whole lot in and it still didn't taste of vanilla at all...

Also - have you ever felt a benefit from creatine? I've tried getting on it a few times but notice no benefit at all.

Thanks again for the info dude.

Matt_Wild

Yes, unflavoured is fine and some would argue better as a higher protein. You can get one drop ultra concentrate flavour system that may help if you need. Heck low sugar Nesqwik if you aren't dieting would be fine.

I'm a none responded to creatine myself but others do - try it!

Are you US based? (I'm not, but friends are!), this is the cheapest I've seen the bits I've recommended :

EAA - http://www.truenutrition.com/p-1154-eaas-essential-amino-acids-instantized-powder-100-grams.aspx

BCAA - http://www.truenutrition.com/p-1118-bcaas-branch-chain-amino-acids-instantized-100-grams.aspx

L-Glutamine - http://www.truenutrition.com/p-962-l-glutamine-powder-100-grams.aspx

Creatine - http://www.truenutrition.com/p-1006-creatine-gluconate-powder-100-grams.aspx

Flavour system - http://www.truenutrition.com/p-1030-true-nutrition-natural-flavor-packs-50-grams.aspx

I AM NOT LINKED TO THE ABOVE CO IN ANYWAY.

m60kaf

This is something I have been quite curious about - my protein manufacturer clearly suggests I take 4-6 small drinks (Incl on during weights) a day. Whereas for ease I just take the same ammount in a couple throughout the day to up my overall protein intake.

I have therefore wondered if doing two big ones is easier, not ideal, but only has a small effect on my gains.. or if it is so relevant that it means I'm totally wasting my time taking it.

chrishgt4

Yes, unflavoured is fine and some would argue better as a higher protein. You can get one drop ultra concentrate flavour system that may help if you need. Heck low sugar Nesqwik if you aren't dieting would be fine.

I'm a none responded to creatine myself but others do - try it!

Are you US based? (I'm not, but friends are!), this is the cheapest I've seen the bits I've recommended :

EAA - http://www.truenutrition.com/p-1154-eaas-essential-amino-acids-instantized-powder-100-grams.aspx

BCAA - http://www.truenutrition.com/p-1118-bcaas-branch-chain-amino-acids-instantized-100-grams.aspx

L-Glutamine - http://www.truenutrition.com/p-962-l-glutamine-powder-100-grams.aspx

Creatine - http://www.truenutrition.com/p-1006-creatine-gluconate-powder-100-grams.aspx

Flavour system - http://www.truenutrition.com/p-1030-true-nutrition-natural-flavor-packs-50-grams.aspx

I AM NOT LINKED TO THE ABOVE CO IN ANYWAY.

Perhaps I'm just a non-responder as well then as over the periods I've used it I've just felt no benefit.

I'm UK based - does that company supply UK?

I'll check out those links tho. Cheers!

REET420

I just started with the protein shakes and glutamine. I take my protein with some glutamine after a workout. That's what they showed me at the dojo I used to train at. I think I'm doing it wrong. This thread completely broke my brain. How could I eat that much protein and stay under my calories.

Matt_Wild

Perhaps I'm just a non-responder as well then as over the periods I've used it I've just felt no benefit.

I'm UK based - does that company supply UK?

I'll check out those links tho. Cheers!

MyProtein in that case!

EAA - http://www.myprotein.com/uk/products/essential_amino_acids

BCAA - Use http://www.myprotein.com/uk/pages/Price_Matcher and then www.tradeingredients.com to get 1kg for £23.99

L-Glutamine - http://www.myprotein.com/uk/pages/Price_Matcher and then www.ironscience.co.uk for 1kg for £15.95

Creatine - http://www.myprotein.com/uk/pages/Price_Matcher and then www.ironscience.co.uk for 1kg for £8.54

Flavour system - http://www.myprotein.com/uk/pages/search?SearchTerm=flavour

Dagoth

Creatine... not even once.

Sidesteal

http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/280/6/E982.short

http://www.jappl.org/content/82/6/1882.short

http://journals.lww.com/acsm-csmr/Abstract/2002/08000/The_Role_of_Protein_and_Amino_Acid_Supplements_in.5.aspx

Just a few. I'm sure you could find a few counter arguments too. Point is, it works for me.

Thanks, I'll check these out.

I'd never question whether it works for someone, it was more about necessity/efficacy vs a situation where ample protein and calories are being consumed in a non-timed manner.

RunnerFive

bump

BuckeyeLife

Reading for real later.

Smuterella

bump

chrishgt4

Perhaps I'm just a non-responder as well then as over the periods I've used it I've just felt no benefit.

I'm UK based - does that company supply UK?

I'll check out those links tho. Cheers!

MyProtein in that case!

EAA - http://www.myprotein.com/uk/products/essential_amino_acids

BCAA - Use http://www.myprotein.com/uk/pages/Price_Matcher and then www.tradeingredients.com to get 1kg for £23.99

L-Glutamine - http://www.myprotein.com/uk/pages/Price_Matcher and then www.ironscience.co.uk for 1kg for £15.95

Creatine - http://www.myprotein.com/uk/pages/Price_Matcher and then www.ironscience.co.uk for 1kg for £8.54

Flavour system - http://www.myprotein.com/uk/pages/search?SearchTerm=flavour

Nice one - I'll check all those links out. Already had a look at the flavouring link and I like the look of that. Just add it to the tub and mix it up.

Thanks again!

Matt_Wild

The one thing I must point out, is that you don't HAVE to do use the supplements I've suggested, it is not crucial.

However I took exception to people saying it is a load of rubbish - it is not.

GorillaNJ

https://s3.amazonaws.com/reportdownloads/The+Creatine+Report.pdf

Here is a pretty thorough report on Creatine, the recommendations from the OP seem to be for more then this report suggests. It also puts little emphasis on timing since once your muscles are saturated you are set.

The thing that struck me as off about it is taking it before a workout. I know when I take my creatine each day I am VERY thirsty immediately after. I would see that as an issue at the gym.

Sidesteal

The one thing I must point out, is that you don't HAVE to do use the supplements I've suggested, it is not crucial.

However I took exception to people saying it is a load of rubbish - it is not.

Just for the record, my claim was regarding the timing of supplementation and additionally, the supplementation of EAAs given adequate total protein intake . I wouldn't call the supplements arbitrarily useless under all circumstances.

sjohnny

The one thing I must point out, is that you don't HAVE to do use the supplements I've suggested, it is not crucial.

However I took exception to people saying it is a load of rubbish - it is not.

Just for the record, my claim was regarding the timing of supplementation and additionally, the supplementation of EAAs given adequate total protein intake . I wouldn't call the supplements arbitrarily useless under all circumstances.

Mine too.