Can Women Get Bulky?
Replies
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I think the main focus on this article, though they somewhat skirted around it, is that our bodies are a form of their function. They adapt to what we ask, in order to perform what we ask. Whether that ends up creating more muscle, less, or any combination in between, it's all a form of function.
Which is really the point. People get so caught up in what their bodies look like, they forget that their body exists for one thing: To move. They forget that their body has a function of movement, and it's designed to do stuff. How it looks, and whether that look is accepted by themselves or others, is merely a bonus aspect of the original purpose.
All those athletes pictured do care about what they look like, but it comes second to what they want their bodies to do. Many, many athletes will say that they like looking "good", but they prefer better performance.
I really need to get to bed, but before I go I just wanted to say that this is a very interesting way of looking at things. I do admit I appreciate my muscles being able to do certain things, so when I lose all the fat, I will definitely re-evaluate whether I still actually want to lose muscle bulk as well. Thanks for sharing your philosophy!
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Keep in mind that these athletes - ESPECIALLY the bodybuilders have supplement dosage, timing and synergy down to a science. These ladies supplement with all sorts of things and many do use steroids (you don't have to look like Schwarzenegger to be on roids). Some anabolics are simply used to aid in the cutting phase but they are androgenic compounds nonetheless. They inhibit estrogen production and/or boost testosterone production. The end result is that there is now more testosterone available for muscle building and cutting fat. Don't get fooled into thinking that they are all in the shape they are in by hard work alone. Do they train and eat like mofos? Yeah!! But many women cannot achieve the bodies you see without some help.
As a mesomorphic bodytype, I tend to gain fat very easily and I gain all over pretty evenly. That being said, I lose evenly also and when I weight train, I see gains quickly. I have bigger calves than most women. I have peaks in my biceps that some of the friends find unnatural for a young female. It's how my body is made and how it responds, no big deal. If I think I am too big in the legs, I can work on my shoulders to balance it out while training legs once a week or once every two weeks.
The point is, women can gain muscle, yes. To look annything like Iris Kyle though, you need to be on major anabolic aid. To look like Jamie Eason, you don't need anabolics (notice there are many women and even men who find her too 'manly' or 'bulky'). Figure out what suits YOU and pursue the knowledge of those who are already at that point to figure out how to get there yourself.0 -
something I find interesting that most people dont talk about when this comes up is that there are two kinds of muscle fibers.
type I - the endurance muscles - make up more than half of the muscle fibers in women.
type II - the power! - make up about two-thirds of the muscle fibers in men.
we aren't structured the same.
it doesnt work on us like that.
if this were true the way you were presenting it then there would be no female sprinters and no male marathon runners. muscle fibers dont work via comparison, they work on on individuals. so yes, women can train to strengthen their type 2 muscle fibers and men can train to strengthen their type 1 muscles. also, there ae some studies that show that the types of muscle fibers can change depending on how they are used.
Complete and utterly ridiculous response because:
A. I didnt say you cant train or strengthen your muscle fibers
B. I didn't say that either sex is incapable of doing what the other can because of their muscle composition
C. I didnt say either of these things limit a gender
D. I didnt say you cant make one or both stronger
E. You cant change from one type of fiber to another
F. I didnt say having more type I fibers means you cannot be a powerful sprinter
G. I didnt say having more type II fibers means you cannot be an endurance athlete
H. What I said IS a fact.
I. You lack reading comprehension.
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If you are interested in being "smaller" then simply lose weight by reducing your bf (as I see you are trying to do through running). I'm not sure what physique you are aiming for, but many users on MFP advocate for weight lifting because its proven to aid in fat loss (which is what you are trying to do). And because having muscles helps to create more definition in anyone's physique, which looks good aesthetically. LIfting weights alone is not going to cause anyone to get bulky, so if you're concerned about getting bulky through weight lifting you are mistaken. You should do your own research on how much it takes to eat in order to build just 1 pound of muscle. I'm sure you are probably eating at a deficit, so there is no way you will bulk if you lift weights. If you are not happy with your size you need to re-evaluate your diet. Running will only give you a greater calorie deficit, it's not going to decrease your body fat. Weight lifting can. But if you are unhappy with the size of your muscles then simply eat a deficit and you will lose both fat and muscle.As a former athlete, that's what I did and I'm not happy with how "wiggly and jiggly" my body is, so now that I've got my bf down I'm back to hitting the weights... heavy lifting specifically. I know I'm not going to bulk because I'm eating at either maintenance or a slight deficit. Its also possible that the look you want to achieve is not realistic given your genetics.
^^ Great response!
Just a quick note about the article... the women pictured that appear "bulky" we have to keep in mind what the article said " Most female athletes are more concerned with performance and achievement than aesthetics." These women are training for specific events, making their bodies into machines to perform a function... they are not worried about anything else. So my guess is the that the "bulky" ones would need to drop a few %bf (which in most cases would affect their performance) and they would cease to look "bulky". Let us also remember that pictures like that can be deceiving.
The majority of women on here that are encouraged to lift are eating at a calorie deficit or maintenance, so to give the advice that they are not going to get bulky is true. Unless they decide to eat at a surplus they are not going to gain body fat or large amounts of muscle... most likely they will retain their lean muscle mass and decrease bf% with lifting. Cardio exercise will help create a deficit for someone one, but not necessarily help them keep their lean muscle mass, it could contribute to muscle loss and no bf% loss... and create the dreaded skinny fat.0 -
something I find interesting that most people dont talk about when this comes up is that there are two kinds of muscle fibers.
type I - the endurance muscles - make up more than half of the muscle fibers in women.
type II - the power! - make up about two-thirds of the muscle fibers in men.
we aren't structured the same.
it doesnt work on us like that.
if this were true the way you were presenting it then there would be no female sprinters and no male marathon runners. muscle fibers dont work via comparison, they work on on individuals. so yes, women can train to strengthen their type 2 muscle fibers and men can train to strengthen their type 1 muscles. also, there ae some studies that show that the types of muscle fibers can change depending on how they are used.
Complete and utterly ridiculous response because:
A. I didnt say you cant train or strengthen your muscle fibers
B. I didn't say that either sex is incapable of doing what the other can because of their muscle composition
C. I didnt say either of these things limit a gender
D. I didnt say you cant make one or both stronger
E. You cant change from one type of fiber to another
F. I didnt say having more type I fibers means you cannot be a powerful sprinter
G. I didnt say having more type II fibers means you cannot be an endurance athlete
H. What I said IS a fact.
I. You lack reading comprehension.
back your wagon up missy. why you mad son? note i said "the way you were presenting". if you meant to include those caveats then the issue isnt my reading comprehension but your self expression
go have a cup of rational please0 -
something I find interesting that most people dont talk about when this comes up is that there are two kinds of muscle fibers.
type I - the endurance muscles - make up more than half of the muscle fibers in women.
type II - the power! - make up about two-thirds of the muscle fibers in men.
we aren't structured the same.
it doesnt work on us like that.
if this were true the way you were presenting it then there would be no female sprinters and no male marathon runners. muscle fibers dont work via comparison, they work on on individuals. so yes, women can train to strengthen their type 2 muscle fibers and men can train to strengthen their type 1 muscles. also, there ae some studies that show that the types of muscle fibers can change depending on how they are used.
Complete and utterly ridiculous response because:
A. I didnt say you cant train or strengthen your muscle fibers
B. I didn't say that either sex is incapable of doing what the other can because of their muscle composition
C. I didnt say either of these things limit a gender
D. I didnt say you cant make one or both stronger
E. You cant change from one type of fiber to another
F. I didnt say having more type I fibers means you cannot be a powerful sprinter
G. I didnt say having more type II fibers means you cannot be an endurance athlete
H. What I said IS a fact.
I. You lack reading comprehension.
back your wagon up missy. why you mad son?
you're response is ridiculous. go have a cup of rational please
3 quips and a quote. I'll take that as an admission of error.0 -
This is an interesting topic. I need to lose a fair bit of weight still (90 lbs) and am trying to do so through a combination of cardio and weights (because truly I hate cardio on its own). I am finding that my measurements have actually gone up in certain areas, which is not what I was going for! I guess I'm building muscle but the fat on top hasn't gone away yet?0
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:This is an interesting topic. I need to lose a fair bit of weight still (90 lbs) and am trying to do so through a combination of cardio and weights (because truly I hate cardio on its own). I am finding that my measurements have actually gone up in certain areas, which is not what I was going for! I guess I'm building muscle but the fat on top hasn't gone away yet?
no worries!! You'll start to see inches disappear - that muscle will torch fat! Keep at it and good luck!! Let me know if you ever need some motivation or a listening ear! :flowerforyou:0 -
I get that many women want definition or want to bulk up. I'm not trying to discourage anyone from those goals. However, I see lots of women that really don't want to bulk up (even a little), or those (like me) who want to slim down muscles they already have. There doesn't seem to be a lot of good advice for how to go about that and all over the place there are people saying "Woman can't bulk up." In some places, it even looks like they haven't read the original post and have just said that indiscriminately.
My purpose was merely to state my doubt. I assumed (correctly) that I would get plenty of counter-arguments. I would be happy to be proven wrong, just as I would also be happy if someone had interesting advice.
Also, yes, I agree with BerryH that some women believe they will "bulk up" as soon as they look at a pink dumbbell. You are quite correct (in my opinion) that water retention and swelling in the beginning can be mistaken and during that time it is important to encourage such women to continue.
However, I take major issues with saying "most" or "all" (I'm not saying you think that, but I'm going by the amount of posts where "women can't bulk up" was given as the only response to any kind of doubt). There are plenty of people here who understand the difference between water retention and real muscle gain. Some people are actually quite in touch with their bodies despite having gone soft. As someone who knows she builds muscle easily and quickly, it is extremely disheartening to hear over and over again that this can't happen or if it does there is no way to prevent it so give up and accept it.
*sigh*
Your original post was not actually asking for advice, but as the responses were not to your liking, here you go...
If you want to lose the definition in the muscle then stop using them. And if you want that area smaller - lose BF%.
I find discussion of a topic leads to many interesting ideas to explore. It doesn't have to have a specific aim such as "advice" or "argument" to be useful. Perhaps I don't even really know what I want out of this and by discussing it I'll find it.
Some things:
1) I find any idea that is given as an absolute hard to take, therefore I have a difficult time accepting that "women can't bulk up" is true 100% of the time and seeing it over and over again bothers me.
2) I am losing BF% by jogging. I am not however losing any muscle despite doing next to no other exercise. I have quite large muscles from having done ballet (to a serious level) from the time I was 4 till the time I was 17. I am now 35 and there has been no loss of muscle. If any other suggestions are forth-coming I'd be very very interested in hearing them.
3) In reference to #1 and #2 I have a fear that some lady out there will follow the advice to weight lift and will bulk up beyond what she personally is comfortable with and then will not be able to rid herself of the gained muscle. I realise this is a rare chance, but some people do go hard core on here and I'd like there to be at least one article/discussion/topic/whatever that they can search where someone has expressed doubt and where perhaps others can also share their muscle building/losing stories so that they have one more piece of information to think about before they get into a serious weight-lifting routine.
4) I didn't realise that is what I was aiming for until just now.
Now I am confused - you seemed to be complaining that you did not get any advice - see bold above.
1) laws of human biology apply to everyone. It is the interpretation of that and definitional differences that cause the confusion. Someones day to day specifics (including weight, activity, genetics, diet) will create the 'building blocks' for their physique. If someone has been eating at a surplus (and many people here were which is why they are trying to lose weight) they will have been developing a certain amount of muscle. When someone 'works' that muscle, the muscle definition shows up in 2 possible ways - new muscle and a slight increase in the size due to the hormonal response of training pre-existing muscle. The former is basically impossible for a female on a deficit (except for possible a slight 'newbie' increase) and the second does not add any significant 'bulk. There may be a slight increase in size but much of it will be water.
2) you are jogging - which means you are using the exisiting muscle. Also, without something like a DEXA scan you cannot categorically say that you have not lost muscle mass.
3) You can always rid yourself of muscle - just do not use it.
4) points 1 - 3 aside, resistance training is very important for health reasons, especially for women as it helps with bone density. To be honest, I would not care about bulking up a little anyway if it meant that I do not get ostoeperosis later down the line.
The other point to make is that BF will come off where it will (its finicky and usually comes off the place you want last) - reduce the BF = reduce the mass.
Edited to fix typos but there will be more!0 -
This is an interesting topic. I need to lose a fair bit of weight still (90 lbs) and am trying to do so through a combination of cardio and weights (because truly I hate cardio on its own). I am finding that my measurements have actually gone up in certain areas, which is not what I was going for! I guess I'm building muscle but the fat on top hasn't gone away yet?
YOu'll see the fat drop soon - a lot is water retention due to new exercise. Wait it out and keep it up. When someone lifts and does cardio its a slower "scale weight drop" compared to just cardio.0 -
"And because having muscles helps to create more definition in anyone's physique, which looks good aesthetically."
I think the point of the article was, not every woman has the same idea of what looks good aesthetically.
Just so you know, I wasn't implying that having big muscles look good, I was talking about muscles in general. Muscles are what gives our body definition, like the narrowness of someone's waist is because of their muscles. We all have them. Now as far as how big our muscles are and how appealing is in the eye of the beholder. We are all striving for the perfect combination of muscle and fat based on what we perceive to look good. So you and I agree, the difference I didn't explain all that in my answer because the poster wasn't looking for that. They wanted answers regarding how to be less bulky or reduce the overall look of big muscles in order to have a "smaller" look/frame.0 -
First, I want to say that I think you look great in your profile pic and yes, you rock the high heels!
I'm disheartened to hear that you feel the only way to achieve less muscle in your legs would be to lie in bed all day though. I also have muscular thighs (that are where I store my fat too) and was somewhat hoping some tangent on this discussion would eventually get around to how to lose that in a healthy way.
First, thank you.
Don't be disheartened. I'm not looking to achieve less muscle in my legs. I used to have skinny legs, when I had a much less active lifestyle, and prefer the legs I have now.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/551109-that-was-then-this-is-now-14-years-later-with-pics
Maybe it's a little bit of a serenity prayer answered... I changed the things I can, accepted the things I can't, and have finally learned the difference. I'm rather pear shaped. I was pear shaped when I was skinny. I was pear shaped when I was fat. I'm always going to have a larger bottom.
I know that my legs are one part genetics and one part the result of doing what I do and eating how I eat. I run an average of 15 miles a week, and lift heavy weights a few times a week. I honestly don't really enjoy lifting all that much, but I love the results I got from it: I'm a better runner, less prone to injury, and I've been told my butt looks like it belongs on someone half my age. :happy:0 -
I've been told my butt looks like it belongs on someone half my age. :happy:
It does!!0 -
Whenever this conversation comes up, I keep thinking about this article:
http://www.leighpeele.com/bulky-muscles-and-training-females-the-definition0 -
You basically need to eat like 3-4x what people on MFP eat to get that way, and it mostly has to be chicken. I read that J Cutler orders pounds and pounds of chicken to last him each week. We're talking 4 oz chicken for breakfast, snack, lunch, snack, dinner, plus veggies, some carbs and protein drinks.
I think we are all safe
You do not need to eat chicken to get bulky. There are professional athletes, including body builders who are vegans--eating dead birds is a personal preference, not a necessity.
She was specifically refering to Jay Cutler the Mr. Olympia champion. Dead birds and dead fish and meat in general seem to be his personal choices and is necessary for him to stay on top and be #1.
OP I really think diet and genetics play a HUGE part in women and bulking. Yes women can bulk up but like some have said most women on mfp are not training to be olympians and even with that it takes years and years and years of solid training and a great diet to get bulky. So most women on mfp are NOT likely to bulk on a calorie restricted diet, thus saying don't be affraid to lift weights and such because of misinformation or lack on knowledge in that area in general. A lot of women get worried when the thought of lifting weights = bulking in their minds when this simply is not true on a calorie restricted diet.0 -
Wait a minute...you're saying these women look bulky in some areas?! The only one I would consider bulky is the bodybuilder (for good reason).0
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Whenever this conversation comes up, I keep thinking about this article:
http://www.leighpeele.com/bulky-muscles-and-training-females-the-definition
That is a great article!! It makes it so much clearer what many women perceive as bulky vs what I see as muscular! Thank you for sharing!0 -
I can't find the article now, but I remember reading one on LeighPeele.com that asked women what celebrity bodies they liked or didn't like, then asked them to choose bodies they liked from photos of celebs, with their heads edited out. Loads of women SAID they didn't want to look like Jessica Biel because she was too muscular, but still picked her headless body when she was dressed up and not being all athletic and muscular.
Edit: Found it! http://www.leighpeele.com/the-ideal-female-body#more-18430 -
I thought this was an interesting article in and of itself, but what really attracted me to it were the pictures of the varied body types of Olympic female athletes. Not all, but a lot of these women have bulky thighs, or at least bulkier than many women want. Some of them probably weight-lifted to get there, but not all of them - it would depend on the nature of their sport.
Now, I realise that these women trained hard and long to get those physiques, but it certainly makes one wonder about all the claims that women can't bulk up. Personally, I think many women can bulk up (at least more than they'd like too) and don't even need to do heavy lifting to do it. Take a look at these pictures and see if you don't think otherwise.
http://www.stumptuous.com/why-dont-you-look-like-a-fitness-model
If a woman eats to excess in terms of calories and takes in enough protein she will build muscle, that goes without saying. Dieting and building up muscle is nigh on impossibe.0 -
Whenever this conversation comes up, I keep thinking about this article:
http://www.leighpeele.com/bulky-muscles-and-training-females-the-definition
Excellent article. Thank you very much for contributing this! 0 -
Now I am confused - you seemed to be complaining that you did not get any advice - see bold above.
1) laws of human biology apply to everyone. It is the interpretation of that and definitional differences that cause the confusion. Someones day to day specifics (including weight, activity, genetics, diet) will create the 'building blocks' for their physique. If someone has been eating at a surplus (and many people here were which is why they are trying to lose weight) they will have been developing a certain amount of muscle. When someone 'works' that muscle, the muscle definition shows up in 2 possible ways - new muscle and a slight increase in the size due to the hormonal response of training pre-existing muscle. The former is basically impossible for a female on a deficit (except for possible a slight 'newbie' increase) and the second does not add any significant 'bulk. There may be a slight increase in size but much of it will be water.
2) you are jogging - which means you are using the exisiting muscle. Also, without something like a DEXA scan you cannot categorically say that you have not lost muscle mass.
3) You can always rid yourself of muscle - just do not use it.
4) points 1 - 3 aside, resistance training is very important for health reasons, especially for women as it helps with bone density. To be honest, I would not care about bulking up a little anyway if it meant that I do not get ostoeperosis later down the line.
The other point to make is that BF will come off where it will (its finicky and usually comes off the place you want last) - reduce the BF = reduce the mass.
Edited to fix typos but there will be more!
Hi again.
I'm very sorry if I come across as complaining. I didn't intend to sound that way and don't feel that way. I'm actually very happy with most of the responses!
I don't think I'm looking for anything specific, or perhaps I am looking for many things. I'm not sure myself, so I think your confusion is understandable.
Thank you for all your contributions. You have given me good food for thought!0 -
I thought this was an interesting article in and of itself, but what really attracted me to it were the pictures of the varied body types of Olympic female athletes. Not all, but a lot of these women have bulky thighs, or at least bulkier than many women want. Some of them probably weight-lifted to get there, but not all of them - it would depend on the nature of their sport.
Now, I realise that these women trained hard and long to get those physiques, but it certainly makes one wonder about all the claims that women can't bulk up. Personally, I think many women can bulk up (at least more than they'd like too) and don't even need to do heavy lifting to do it. Take a look at these pictures and see if you don't think otherwise.
http://www.stumptuous.com/why-dont-you-look-like-a-fitness-model
If a woman eats to excess in terms of calories and takes in enough protein she will build muscle, that goes without saying. Dieting and building up muscle is nigh on impossible.
Thank you. I believe I understand this now (probably LOL!)
Your first sentence is crucially important. Before, I felt like I was reading thread after thread where only the second sentence was stated and hence I wasn't making certain connections. Now I feel like I get it and, also, like I know what to say when this topic comes up again on MFP as I'm sure it will. 0 -
Whenever this conversation comes up, I keep thinking about this article:
http://www.leighpeele.com/bulky-muscles-and-training-females-the-definition
Excellent article. Thank you very much for contributing this!
OMG, I want to be an Amazon! They are so pretty!0
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