BMI for African Americans/Blacks/Browns
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I really hope you arent serious...
I would check your frame first - if you have a larger frame you can weigh more, if you have a tiny frame - you should aim for less. And either way, the BMI is crap when it comes to the fact that you probably have LOTS of muscle and it doesnt account for your lean mass. I would stick to going by your body fat percentage- the BMI is as out-dated as the aerobics leotards they used in the 70s girl!
But those aerobics leotards are soooo awesomeeeee...
only the bubble gum pink/lime green combos! with the fuzzy legwarmers!!!
My mom used to be an aerobics instructor in the late 80s/early 90s. Her outfits were AMAZING. I have to find pictures, they were priceless.0 -
41% fat is obese.
Recent New York Times article. The author is an African American woman, who also discusses her own weight gain and loss.
"Black Women and Fat
FOUR out of five black women are seriously overweight. One out of four middle-aged black women has diabetes. With $174 billion a year spent on diabetes-related illness in America and obesity quickly overtaking smoking as a cause of cancer deaths, it is past time to try something new.
What we need is a body-culture revolution in black America. Why? Because too many experts who are involved in the discussion of obesity don’t understand something crucial about black women and fat: many black women are fat because we want to be. ..."
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/06/opinion/sunday/why-black-women-are-fat.html
Dang Tio Tacos, Uncle Toms....White Folks can ALWAYS find ONE and try to lay THAT on the WHOLE RACE!
There were some complaints in the article that the author was portraying all black women in a bad light. Certainly, many of the things she stated as "fact" about blacks didn't apply to me or many black women I know. But the statistics cited are horrifying. I've always gotten angry about seeing black females represented as "sassy fat black women" on TV and in the movies, but if four out of five black women are seriously overweight it's not a stereotype, not that there aren't huge numbers of overweight white people.
Facts taken out of Context can be made to make ANY POINT! Again, what Environmental Factors play a MAJOR ROLE!? When someone gives an OPINION, "Black women are fat because they WANT to be Fat" I have a MAJOR problem with that! What FACT is she relating to in saying that...how was THAT Conclusion drawn? Blacks like that just give fodder for fuel to Racist and Status seeking Blacks and Ignorance to flourish. NOTHING is in a vacuum!
Articles like that piss Me off because she is making a statement and showing Irrelevant Stats to back it up...THAT;S NOT the whole story, HEY, But she Got her article in the New York Times. (It's like saying the HS drop out rate for Black Males is 68% SO they Must be Dumb!)
ETA: The SHEAR IGNORANCE of the woman..."We (Blacks) need a BODY CULTURE Revolution....WHAT? Tell GOD to take our hips back, or MAY Be, Surgically alter our Nose or Thin our Lips!!!? Our BODY TYPE is as unique as any other feature of our being (in ALL Cultures). How FREAKISH do white women look when they THICKEN their lips, they were not made like that...I dare a Status seeking Black come along and say, "Change what GOD gave you because it does NOT fit the present definition of..." She is saying MORE than is written in the article, and even so, the article is Stupid. It does not provoke thought, it STOPS it!
I reflect back on someone here who Posted about the Cost of Eating Right...the young lady said she is spending $600 per month just for her to eat right!!! Why doesn't the writer give history behind the obesity and possible solutions. Most Black women will NEVER be shaped like a Bean Pole...THANK GOD!
Every major problem in any society FIRST becomes pervasive in the poverty stricken population...THEN it gets Noticed when it hits the "middle class." No different with obesity and its Co-Morbidities. There is FAR more going on than just "folks" eating too much...it's WHAT people in our society are eating and the CHEMICAL reaction it has in the Body! That is why nutritionist and doctors have NOW come to the conclusion that Calories In and Calories Out is NOT the right formula! That the chemical reaction that HFCS has on the Body IS different than Cane sugar...and so on. So when the general population get ALL of these types of substances it reeks havoc on the Body. I wish that writer had taken an opportunity to Educate instead of Demonize Black Women...Like WE need that! BUT she got her article approved for the NY Times! I KNOW she shops at Whole Foods and drives her Benz to get there!
Without a doubt facts can be slanted. But the statistics are clear. And they are bad. BTW, the author lives in Memphis or Nashville.0 -
2 lbs??? your weight with fluctuate so much (as a female) so I wouldn't worry about 2 lbs...0
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41% fat is obese.
Recent New York Times article. The author is an African American woman, who also discusses her own weight gain and loss.
"Black Women and Fat
FOUR out of five black women are seriously overweight. One out of four middle-aged black women has diabetes. With $174 billion a year spent on diabetes-related illness in America and obesity quickly overtaking smoking as a cause of cancer deaths, it is past time to try something new.
What we need is a body-culture revolution in black America. Why? Because too many experts who are involved in the discussion of obesity don’t understand something crucial about black women and fat: many black women are fat because we want to be. ..."
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/06/opinion/sunday/why-black-women-are-fat.html
Dang Tio Tacos, Uncle Toms....White Folks can ALWAYS find ONE and try to lay THAT on the WHOLE RACE!
There were some complaints in the article that the author was portraying all black women in a bad light. Certainly, many of the things she stated as "fact" about blacks didn't apply to me or many black women I know. But the statistics cited are horrifying. I've always gotten angry about seeing black females represented as "sassy fat black women" on TV and in the movies, but if four out of five black women are seriously overweight it's not a stereotype, not that there aren't huge numbers of overweight white people.
Facts taken out of Context can be made to make ANY POINT! Again, what Environmental Factors play a MAJOR ROLE!? When someone gives an OPINION, "Black women are fat because they WANT to be Fat" I have a MAJOR problem with that! What FACT is she relating to in saying that...how was THAT Conclusion drawn? Blacks like that just give fodder for fuel to Racist and Status seeking Blacks and Ignorance to flourish. NOTHING is in a vacuum!
Articles like that piss Me off because she is making a statement and showing Irrelevant Stats to back it up...THAT;S NOT the whole story, HEY, But she Got her article in the New York Times. (It's like saying the HS drop out rate for Black Males is 68% SO they Must be Dumb!)
ETA: The SHEAR IGNORANCE of the woman..."We (Blacks) need a BODY CULTURE Revolution....WHAT? Tell GOD to take our hips back, or MAY Be, Surgically alter our Nose or Thin our Lips!!!? Our BODY TYPE is as unique as any other feature of our being (in ALL Cultures). How FREAKISH do white women look when they THICKEN their lips, they were not made like that...I dare a Status seeking Black come along and say, "Change what GOD gave you because it does NOT fit the present definition of..." She is saying MORE than is written in the article, and even so, the article is Stupid. It does not provoke thought, it STOPS it!
I reflect back on someone here who Posted about the Cost of Eating Right...the young lady said she is spending $600 per month just for her to eat right!!! Why doesn't the writer give history behind the obesity and possible solutions. Most Black women will NEVER be shaped like a Bean Pole...THANK GOD!
Every major problem in any society FIRST becomes pervasive in the poverty stricken population...THEN it gets Noticed when it hits the "middle class." No different with obesity and its Co-Morbidities. There is FAR more going on than just "folks" eating too much...it's WHAT people in our society are eating and the CHEMICAL reaction it has in the Body! That is why nutritionist and doctors have NOW come to the conclusion that Calories In and Calories Out is NOT the right formula! That the chemical reaction that HFCS has on the Body IS different than Cane sugar...and so on. So when the general population get ALL of these types of substances it reeks havoc on the Body. I wish that writer had taken an opportunity to Educate instead of Demonize Black Women...Like WE need that! BUT she got her article approved for the NY Times! I KNOW she shops at Whole Foods and drives her Benz to get there!
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Wow, thank you! I've been killing myself trying to loose 10lbs to fit into the "normal" BMI. I already fit into the normal BMI posted on http://www.halls.md/bmi/race.htm. Don't get me wrong, I still have some fat to loose but at least I can concentrate on that and not loosing these 10 stubborn pounds.0
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:drinker:0 -
You do realize that BMI is all about money right? I read an article somewhere about how BMI has been changed a few times because if they make certain BMI overweight it mean money can be made(weight loss places) or given(goverment grants). I think it is a better idea to look at body fat percentage. I truly believe each person is different. I have some black friends and family members that are shapeless and I have white friends that are just as built as what stereotypically is considered to be a black womans figure.
SO TRUE!! It's all about insurance companies being able to charge higher premiums. My mother, who is a personal trainer and has 19-20% body fat at 57 years old (seriously, the healthiest woman I know) was told her BMI put her in the "overweight" category so her insurance premium went up. Talk about some bullshizzzz!
Yes, my understanding is that BMI developed or began to be used as a tool by insurers for assessing risk. THAT'S WHAT INSURANCE COMPANIES DO. The premium for a middle-aged motorist is lower than that for an 18-year-old motorcyclist. They were able to get a rough feel of obesity (which IS related to higher health costs) in POPULATIONS by being able to take the weight and height of people and do a simple calculation. It would be very expensive and impractical to do a body fat percentage and bone density scan for every individual. It's a proxy, not a straight measurement.
But it's not complete b.s. Insurers (who I hate) have to justify premium increases by showing some kind of rational relationship. It's not irrational to assume that servicing an overweight or obese population (as a group) will be more costly.
Edited to add:
Anyone who understands the BMI tends to favor other measures. The reason it's used as a shorthand by doctors and others is that many people won't educate themselves about their true state of health as relates to their weight. I see people here who won't weigh themselves because they don't want to know, or who don't try to estimate their body fat percentage, or who don't take their measurements, who believe they burned a million calories playing 15 minutes of ping pong because some device said so.
At least the BMI is easy. But its limitations are well understood.0 -
Sidebar...I didn't realize there were so many black people on MFP until now.
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:huh:OP I would never post that here esp since this site is other dominate and they don't understand the complexities those of other races have.
Yeah seriously.
Anyway to sum it up, no one scale is accurate. We all know that. That's why doctors use various scales and measurements. If the doctor just looked at you and said "yup! looks fat to me!" you'd have an even bigger issue. Every scale has issues.
BMI isn't perfect but its a good general guideline. It wasn't created for its current purposes now but that doesn't mean its not worth using. Teflon also wasn't originally created so you can make omelets but that's not stopping anyone.
body fat % scales are not always accurate either. Calipers don't take visceral fat into account so that could be wrong. Bio-impedance analysis has its own issues as it'll vary with how much water you drank, could give incorrect results for bottom heavy people, etc etc. Tape measure doesn't take into account where people put on more muscle so that can be off too. Your Dr is not going to send the average person to get a dxa scan or underwater weighing test. Unless you're going for competitive body fat levels all this extra analysis is pointless.
Either way, you'll need a combination of all types of scales including a visual analysis to see how overweight a person really is.
Yes black people typically do have a bit more muscle mass on average in some cases I'd agree but that doesn't account for a huge weight difference. If anything it'll be 5-10lbs max which would still leave a person with a healthy weight range in most cases if they're fit. I'm on the heavier end of the BMI scale but I'm still within a healthy range. If I put on 20lbs I probably would be at risk for diabetes, stroke, heart attack, etc.
For everyone comparing themselves to professional and competitive athletes, really? I don't know why no one sees just how crazy this sounds.0 -
op I'd take the bmi chart with a grain of salt, I think it's great for general guidelines if you are on the extreme end of either spectrum, but i don't pay too much attention to it otherwise.
That said I wouldn't exactly take those people's word as truth either. I think you should just continue to live your life in the most healthy way. If your weight doesn't change then there you go.
Oh and if that is you in your pic you do look good. 0 -
As a 55 year old 5 foot tall Black woman hovering around 118 lbs in the US I am so enjoying this conversation. I thank you all for your references and citations so we can read the facts for ourselves.
I strongly agree that this issue has a huge cultural component. Culture influences behavior, our choices about how we manage our health.
Routinely I meet a group of Black women for lunch or dinner. I ALWAYS take home half my meal. I am usually teased first about the food choice I have made then I am teased about not eating everything on this US-sized overflowing plate. Most of the women with whom I am eating are larger than I. I do not succumb to their teasing and keep making the choices that are right for me. Recently I learned one of the group lost a significant amount of weight by changing her diet and getting into Zumba. She looks fantastic, her efforts are obvious. Privately she commented to me about her own prior teasing and acknowledged the value of the healthier choices.
Bottom-line, my friend made changes based on her changing set of beliefs about managing her health. The peer influence, the cultural influences are still there; she has just DECIDED to make different choices.
We can ALL decide!0 -
Sidebar...I didn't realize there were so many black people on MFP until now.
tlctrace - check out this link to another ongoing discussion on MFP - http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/466429-african-american-women-before-and-after-pics-please?page=160 -
by the way op here are some articles that you may find interesting
http://sfu.academia.edu/SimiKohli/Papers/72633/Use_of_BMI_and_waist_circumference_as_surrogates_of_body_fat_differs_by_ethnicity
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090611142407.htm
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/01/25/us-healthy-waist-idUSTRE70O4H320110125
http://caloriecount.about.com/study-shows-black-women-can-healthy-b493869?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter_20110331&utm_term=continue1
http://womensissues.about.com/od/femalebodyimage/a/Black-Women-Healthier-Weight.htm
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Healthday/blacks-bad-fat-whites/story?id=93759000 -
Additionally, if you know where to look, you can eat healthy on less than $600/month/person. Things like farm co-ops and local butchers can provide you with organic (or technically organic, even if they're not "approved" by the FDA) food for enough food to feed a family of 4 for several months for $600 (think, a whole cow). You just have to be willing to look beyond the grocery store and neatly-packaged fake crap.
If you have $600/mo per person, then you are pretty well off. For most people, that's their budget for the month, for 4. The average American spends about 7 or 8% of their income on food. Average salary is about $35K. That's about $200/month. You are proposing they triple their food budget, to spend a level even higher than the highest we have spent this century, 12% of income or about $350 in today's dollars.
I spend $500 a month, I am single and go out to eat a lot and I don't have that many expenses. I knowingly spend a lot on food. My parents spend less than half of what I do, and it is hard on their budget. And they have a garden.0 -
This is a great topic that goes beyond health and fitness, hopefully I don't offend anyone, as that is not my intent.
It can not be overstated that ALL health rules are ONLY BEST GUESSES, RECOMMENDATIONS, THEORIES, APPROXIMATIONS, ETC.! In other words they are not exact but the closest information available. They are only guidlines for us to use and personally revise to give us the healthiest lifestyle we can achieve. Modify it to your body and what body reacts to.
Calories are estimations with +/- rate factored in. The package of a particular product may state the product has 90 calories per serving however the built-in error rate "guesses" the calories. You may actually be getting 100 calories or 85 calories. You can eat 2 ounces of oranges daily and have different total calories because calories in food are not finite.
Now, with regard to racial differences. I don't really subscribe to that. It was believe races were entirely different. Then time passed and it was believed that all people fell into three different races. Those races being Caucasoid, Negroid, and Mongoloid. The white, black, and yellow respecitively. Recent studies suggest one race, humanoid.
Another layer down, you have geographic location - world, hemisphere, continent, country, state, city. You may be "considered" healthy in the south, unhealthy in the north, borderline in the midwest, and something completely different in the west! Remember, doctors aren't the end all and make mistakes also.
The study posted, although short term and very general at best, suggests that black and white people do not have a significant difference with regard to BMI. White people overweight BMI is 25.0 while black people have 26.3 leaving a difference of only 1.3. The average is 24.03. So, if this particular study was taken into consideration, you would still need to lose about half of those twenty pounds.
Digging deeper down, we see what different cultures consider attractive and healthy. Beauty is subjective to one's experience through life. Health can be determined through medical tests and other less exact measures such as scales, mirrors, and body measurement.
If we look at black people and the different body shapes. Yes, black women MAY have larger hips and thighs. We also know that is where most women carry their excess body fat. While a small waist may be present, that does not mean fat is not carried on the hips and buttocks. It is possible to have both at the same time.
We must also recognize the difference between loving yourself and health. You stated " I think I look good just like I am". There is a difference between liking the way you look and current health/future health. The numbers provided are average for generally healthy people. However, what about 5 years in the future? Or even 10? I am not saying there is anything wrong, today's health is not tomorrow's health.
After all of that, my point is, race is not as much as a factor as it is an EXCUSE. We are not dealing with finite numbers. You must use all available resources to get the best state health for YOU. That includes using heart rate monitors, blood pressure monitoring, BMI, BMR, MR, diet, exercise, sleep, and regular doctor visits.
Best wishes...0 -
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Additionally, if you know where to look, you can eat healthy on less than $600/month/person. Things like farm co-ops and local butchers can provide you with organic (or technically organic, even if they're not "approved" by the FDA) food for enough food to feed a family of 4 for several months for $600 (think, a whole cow). You just have to be willing to look beyond the grocery store and neatly-packaged fake crap.
If you have $600/mo per person, then you are pretty well off. For most people, that's their budget for the month, for 4. The average American spends about 7 or 8% of their income on food. Average salary is about $35K. That's about $200/month. You are proposing they triple their food budget, to spend a level even higher than the highest we have spent this century, 12% of income or about $350 in today's dollars.
I spend $500 a month, I am single and go out to eat a lot and I don't have that many expenses. I knowingly spend a lot on food. My parents spend less than half of what I do, and it is hard on their budget. And they have a garden.
You've misread what I wrote, and seem to have missed entirely what I was responding to. The person I responded to complained that someone they knew spent $600/mo to eat healthy. That's where the $600/mo/person figure came from.
What I'm saying, like you, is that that's a huge amount to spend that doesn't need to be. As I stated, if you know where to look, $600 can get enough (organic, free-range, grass fed) meat for a family of 4 for upwards of 6 months. That's $100 per month for the whole family, or $25/month/person for meat. Assume even $50/month/person ($200 total budget, 4 people), and that still leaves half of the budget for non-meat staples. When you can get produce in season, it's dirt cheap at farmer's markets, produce stands, and co-ops. You can then freeze, can, or otherwise home process them for use in the winter time, allowing you to get the most for you money.
Tl;dr version - Eating healthy doesn't have to be expensive, contrary to what the person I was responding to was claiming.0 -
As a 55 year old 5 foot tall Black woman hovering around 118 lbs in the US I am so enjoying this conversation. I thank you all for your references and citations so we can read the facts for ourselves.
I strongly agree that this issue has a huge cultural component. Culture influences behavior, our choices about how we manage our health.
Routinely I meet a group of Black women for lunch or dinner. I ALWAYS take home half my meal. I am usually teased first about the food choice I have made then I am teased about not eating everything on this US-sized overflowing plate. Most of the women with whom I am eating are larger than I. I do not succumb to their teasing and keep making the choices that are right for me. Recently I learned one of the group lost a significant amount of weight by changing her diet and getting into Zumba. She looks fantastic, her efforts are obvious. Privately she commented to me about her own prior teasing and acknowledged the value of the healthier choices.
Bottom-line, my friend made changes based on her changing set of beliefs about managing her health. The peer influence, the cultural influences are still there; she has just DECIDED to make different choices.
We can ALL decide!
I've enjoyed the discussion, too. I look forward to checking the articles cited by other people
No one is denying the force of cultural influence (for some people) or the impact of structural racism and the historically low income of African Americans (for others) that may be related to poor dietary education and eating choices. No one is saying it's easy. But you have to do something.0 -
Oh dear. I was hoping this would be gone. Since it isn't...
Permit me to tell you about Black women from the South. My ancestors were shipped directly to Charleston, SC from Sierra Leone. Over the course of generations, they were bred for strength, intelligence, and endurance...all culminating in the genetic wonder that is Beastette. NOT so that I can giggle about how my cardiovascular health is declining but my man sure does like some extra booty meat (tee-hee)! That ****z cray.
Lift heavy, eat well, watch your body fat and hip-to-waist ratio, my sisters of all shades. If you need me, I'll be in the squat rack.0 -
Oh dear. I was hoping this would be gone. Since it isn't...
Permit me to tell you about Black women from the South. My ancestors were shipped directly to Charleston, SC from Sierra Leone. Over the course of generations, they were bred for strength, intelligence, and endurance...all culminating in the genetic wonder that is Beastette. NOT so that I can giggle about how my cardiovascular health is declining but my man sure does like some extra booty meat (tee-hee)! That ****z cray.
Lift heavy, eat well, watch your body fat and hip-to-waist ratio, my sisters of all shades. If you need me, I'll be in the squat rack.
:flowerforyou:0 -
Oh dear. I was hoping this would be gone. Since it isn't...
Permit me to tell you about Black women from the South. My ancestors were shipped directly to Charleston, SC from Sierra Leone. Over the course of generations, they were bred for strength, intelligence, and endurance...all culminating in the genetic wonder that is Beastette. NOT so that I can giggle about how my cardiovascular health is declining but my man sure does like some extra booty meat (tee-hee)! That ****z cray.
Lift heavy, eat well, watch your body fat and hip-to-waist ratio, my sisters of all shades. If you need me, I'll be in the squat rack.
:flowerforyou: :drinker:0 -
Sidebar...I didn't realize there were so many black people on MFP until now.
LMFAO! IKR!0 -
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I think that the BMI scale was developed by/for insurance companies who have a heavily vested interest in the health of people d/t insurance policies. So it is based on averages not individual cases. On average, people above and below certain BMI values have more health issues. It's not perfect but it is an indicator for future and present health.
The BMI was invented by some Belgian guys back in the 1800's, actually. Conspiracy theories: sorry for your loss.0 -
By American Standards I am 2.3% overweight, I should be weighing around 155, which means I need 2 lose about 20 lbs...I weighed 174.2, BMI was 27.3, BP was 110/74, Total Cholesterol was 117, HDL 58, nonHDL 59, Glucose 73, my fat was 41.2%, I am suppose to be in a range of 21-33%, Fat Mass was 71.81, suppose 2 be 27.2-50.41 range & they said I shud eat 1565 to maintain my weight...EXCUSE ME, BUT WHERE IS THE AFRICAN AMERICAN/BLACK & BROWN FOLKS BODY MASS INDEX LOCATED??? Cuz the folks in the south say Im a HEALTHY weight & I think I nd 2 create anotha type of BMI!!!!!!!! I am heavy in the hips & thighs & I think I look good just like I am, these standards are so not realistic!!!! BMI 4 Blacks is a need, we are circumferenced different!!!!!
There is only 1/2 of 1% variation of DNA for all humans regardless of race or ethnic background. While you may carry above average muscle mass, you are certainly also carrying above average fat stores as well.
So with that being said, if you're happy with how you look and your health indicators are good, no need to lose weight. However, don't confuse that with "I don't have any weight I could lose", which is not the case.0 -
Thank everyone for their 2 pennies, but lets move on gee-wiz!!!! If Im fat Im fat, if Im skinny Im skinny, I think I look great & thats all that matters, I will be trying to get that fat % back down tho!:bigsmile: :bigsmile: :bigsmile:0
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Thank everyone for their 2 pennies, but lets move on gee-wiz!!!! If Im fat Im fat, if Im skinny Im skinny, I think I look great & thats all that matters, I will be trying to get that fat % back down tho!:bigsmile: :bigsmile: :bigsmile:
I'm glad you are happy and think you look great! That is awesome. But please remember that health matters too. It should at least.0 -
Thank everyone for their 2 pennies, but lets move on gee-wiz!!!! If Im fat Im fat, if Im skinny Im skinny, I think I look great & thats all that matters, I will be trying to get that fat % back down tho!:bigsmile: :bigsmile: :bigsmile:
Cosigned! You look great and WE have to build our body image(s) to the standards and morays of OUR community.
From the desk of the HYNIC0 -
I agree that BMI calculations suck, it doesn't account for a lot of things, but honestly, I feel like a lot of women of color like to use our uniquely shaped/proportioned bodies as excuses to remain overweight and unhealthy. *Don't pull out your guns and pitch forks nah!* Yes, Black women are more curvy and volumptuous than other women but that line between healthy-curvy and unhealthy-curvy is very thin! I think that we need to find a way to maintain our culturally defined curves without sacrificing/neglecting our health. And yes, there are a lot of Black men who like thicker women but sadly, those are the same women who are suffering with hypertension, high cholesterol, sleep apnea, diabetes, heart problems, and a shortened lifespan. We need to stop being complacent with these socially acceptable standards for our health and well-being when they bear harmful and costly consequences.
~Tasha~
This! As a health care provider I cringe when I hear black women say being 30-40 lbs is not really overweight because they have curves. Um no! Yes we store fat generally in our buttocks and hips, but I see a lot of black women with high abdominal girth that is extremely not healthy. I do agree that BMI is overrated, but unless you have a high muscle mass then its usually a reflection of your current health/weight status. There are many women of color who are not overrated. Honestly, the bigger is better mantra needs to go from the community, since it is only detrimental to our overall health in the long run.0
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