This whole "Starvation Mode" Kick

BlueDahlia77

What she was told was kinda true. The thing is though, your metabolism DOES slow down, no matter how big you are, on such an extreme calorie deficit. Yes, you will loose, and you will loose fast, but guess what? When she starts eating normal amounts again she is gonna gain weight again because her metabolism will be so slow. That's what we call the yo-yo effect.

Eat, eat healthy, eat junk in moderation, just EAT. The loss will be slower, but it won't come back.

If they go back to eating 10,000 calories a day, they will gain it back. If they eat a normal caloric intake they will not. I don't see where metabolism enters into this. It's not like the metabolic downregulation lasts very long after a normal caloric intake is resumed. The body is amazing at maintaining homeostasis.

You don't magically regain weight by eating normally.
It takes years of eating at a large caloric surplus to become obese.
If you diet and become fit, it still takes years of eating at a large caloric surplus to become obese, regardless of whether you lost the weight in 1 year or in 10.

Let's say "eating normally" is 1200 calories a day, but on the "diet" they're only taking in 600-800 calories a day. When they go back to 1200 that is 400-600 extra calories a day the body will be processing, but because bodies have their own signals that they follow those extra calories will not be recognized as "eating normally" calories, they'll be recognized as "holy cow we've got some extra energy, so we better save it for a rainy day" calories. The weight gain might not be significant, but there will be weight gain.

BlueDahlia77

There is no molecule in the group "carbohydrates" that we need to eat to survive.

So, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so not true. Carbohydrates are an energy source just like fats and proteins. They are VERY needed to survive.

BlueDahlia77

Two things continue to amaze me:

1) "Maintainable, lifestyle, 1000 calories forever or you'll gain it all back, blahblahblah!"

No. It's not forever. It's until you lose the weight. At which point you maintain that weight. And that applies to every single diet. If you are currently losing weight, at some point you are going to increase your intake in order to avoid loss of further weight. If you go back to your original habits, obviously you will gain weight again. How do you think you got to that weight in the first place? Gradually increasing your calorie intake post-diet will redress any (slight) slowdown in your metabolism.

2) Everyone who thinks it's possible to defy all the laws of Physics.

I have read, on a disturbing number of occasions, a statement to this effect: "If you don't eat enough, you could even gain weight!!!". Seriously, what planet are you living on? Energy is required to move things, break things and make things - i.e. in order to be alive. If you don't put this energy in your mouth, your body doesn't go "screw it, I'll just stop performing bodily functions like moving and breathing and continuing existence". It goes looking for alternate energy sources - and if you're overweight, it finds them quite easily. As someone posted above - remember that a morbidly obese person is essentially walking around wearing a quarter-of-a-million calorie cake.

Obviously that's not to say that VLCDs aren't without pitfalls. But, again as mentioned, the main issue is maintaining acceptable levels of nutrients. Fortunately, it just so happens that a lot of really low calorie foods are nutritionally quite awesome. If given the choice between 1,000 calories of awesome, healthy stuff (and people going "AHHH STARVATION MODE") and 1,300 calories of junk, I know which I'd choose.

EDIT: Also quoting this, as it's possibly the best post in this thread:

YUP, THEM STARVING AFRICAN KIDS ARE A RIGHT BUNCH OF FAT FECKERS

There seems to be a disturbing belief that because an obese person has extra fat on their body that they have all of this extra energy and it doesn't matter how little they eat because, heck, they have soooooooooo much extra fat! It's bull. An obese person on a VLCD will react the same way a normal-sized person does when they significantly lose their intake amounts. There may be rapid weight loss (at first), but they'll also get irritable, lethargic, and malnourished. The extra fat on their body doesn't give them magical powers of energy.

BlueDahlia77

YUP, THEM STARVING AFRICAN KIDS ARE A RIGHT BUNCH OF FAT FECKERS

They never have the opportunity to develop muscle mass nor excessive fat stores, so their situation is ever so slightly different.

Although I think that (reasonably obviously) the original poster was making a hyperbolic statement for effect, I'll amend that quote so that it's more to your first-world liking (and ignore the fact that physiologically there's barely any difference between this and the original):

YUP, THEM ANOREXICS DYING OF PROLONGED MARASMUS ARE A RIGHT BUNCH OF FAT FECKERS

Obviously, neither of you have seen someone dying from starvation with their stomachs so distended that it looks like they have a beer gut....

BlueDahlia77

All these years of The Biggest Loser, they manage to rack up double-digit losses week after week after week eating well below their BMR and not adding back their exercise calories. They burned off their body fat in place of their food calories. Their metabolisms didn't grind to a halt. I'm not advocating that method but there must be a hundred or more examples there.

Just Google "biggest loser past participants" and you'll see that many of the people who participated on that show have gained back significant amounts of weight because the way they originally lost is completely unsustainable in the real world. Of course a person will lose weight if someone else makes your food and they're working out all day long.

BlueDahlia77

I listen to my body. It's been getting full around 700-800 calories, so I choose to listen to it lately and ignore MFP's "not eating enough." Eating too much got me the weight I am today.

I figure, if I'm full and have energy while losing weight, it shouldn't matter what anyone says I *should* be at.

Many people get straight up fat on sub 1000cal diets. Others diet and diet and diet for years at a similar calorie level...and still somehow remain obese.

Hunger is a very misunderstood thing...and is so often confused with other hormonal signals...it's nearly useless as an indicator of the proper diet.

I know you won't listen to me...but I had to say it anyhow. Maybe someone will.

Thank you :drinker:

wackyfunster

There seems to be a disturbing belief that because an obese person has extra fat on their body that they have all of this extra energy and it doesn't matter how little they eat because, heck, they have soooooooooo much extra fat! It's bull. An obese person on a VLCD will react the same way a normal-sized person does when they significantly lose their intake amounts. There may be rapid weight loss (at first), but they'll also get irritable, lethargic, and malnourished. The extra fat on their body doesn't give them magical powers of energy.

That is actually incorrect. As someone with around 10 pounds of body fat, I could get at most 300ish calories per day from fat stores. That means eating 500 calories per day would be extremely bad for me. Someone with 200 pounds of body fat could pull 6000ish calories from fat stores, more than enough to satisfy TDEE with no health effects (assuming vitamin/mineral/electrolyte supplementation). Obese people DO have much greater ability to generate energy from fat. Otherwise there would be no point in the body storing it. I know several formerly morbidly obese folks who have lost 150+ pounds on a VLCD without any issues.

tamsinwhitfield

YUP, THEM ANOREXICS DYING OF PROLONGED MARASMUS ARE A RIGHT BUNCH OF FAT FECKERS

Ahh, the rampant ignorance abounds. Anorexics usually have nigh 0 muscle mass either, and people undereating to intentionally achieve the look lose their lean mass prior to their fat which is why they appear skinny-fat on their way down.

I have to wonder if you're deliberately obtuse? Please explain to me where I advocate this "diet" - obviously, I don't, because it's moronic (in fact, I also said that it was physiologically no different to "starving Africans"). I'm using it as an argument against the absurd broscience that's running rampant in this thread, namely the "OMG IF U GO INTO STARVATION UR METABOLISM WILL SHUT DOWN" ridiculousness.

That is actually incorrect. As someone with around 10 pounds of body fat, I could get at most 300ish calories per day from fat stores. That means eating 500 calories per day would be extremely bad for me. Someone with 200 pounds of body fat could pull 6000ish calories from fat stores, more than enough to satisfy TDEE with no health effects (assuming vitamin/mineral/electrolyte supplementation). Obese people DO have much greater ability to generate energy from fat. Otherwise there would be no point in the body storing it.

^ Exactly this.

Fat storage is evolutionary, it's not just happening to piss you off. In times of famine (i.e. "diet"), you've got something to effectively live off. VLCDs are prescribed to extremely obese patients every day - under medical supervision, there is absolutely no reason why someone with a huge amount to lose shouldn't be following one (particularly if the health benefits of weight loss vastly outweigh any potential downside - Type 2 Diabetes, high cholesterol, the imminent heart attack or death from sleep apnea that's just waiting to happen). And this is why it infuriates me when I see people here actively discourage others from following their physician's advice solely on the grounds that it falls below this "magic 1200".

yarwell

So, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so not true. Carbohydrates are an energy source just like fats and proteins. They are VERY needed to survive.

Afraid not. There are indeed an energy source, but they can be completely replaced by other energy sources.

On the other hand you can't replace protein with carbs, or essential fatty acids with carbs.

That's why the RDA for carbohydrates is zero - there is no carbohydrate molecule that your body has to be fed in order to maintain its full function.

So go do some reading.

yarwell

There seems to be a disturbing belief that because an obese person has extra fat on their body that they have all of this extra energy and it doesn't matter how little they eat because, heck, they have soooooooooo much extra fat! It's bull.

So the Scotsman "AB" who fasted for over a year to reduce his obesity, then kept the weight off for several years was a myth ? a different species ?

An obese person on a VLCD will react the same way a normal-sized person does when they significantly lose their intake amounts. There may be rapid weight loss (at first), but they'll also get irritable, lethargic, and malnourished.

People on VLCD trials are not hungry, plenty of evidence published about that. Hunger shuts down pretty quickly. Malnourished ? the commercial VLCD preparations are 100% nutrient balance by design.

Have a read at http://www.diabetologia-journal.org/Lim.pdf to see VLCDs inaction - for diabetes reversal in this case, but interesting anyway.

Mc_Queen

Saving this to read later

mcarter99

All these years of The Biggest Loser, they manage to rack up double-digit losses week after week after week eating well below their BMR and not adding back their exercise calories. They burned off their body fat in place of their food calories. Their metabolisms didn't grind to a halt. I'm not advocating that method but there must be a hundred or more examples there.

Just Google "biggest loser past participants" and you'll see that many of the people who participated on that show have gained back significant amounts of weight because the way they originally lost is completely unsustainable in the real world. Of course a person will lose weight if someone else makes your food and they're working out all day long.

I know a lot of them gain it back because they didn't all really address the issue of doing it right AT HOME, forever. But if it was true that eating below your BMR and not adding back exercise destroys your metabolism and results in gaining all your lost weight right back, that would be true of all of them. It would mean none could maintain it healthfully.

Behaviorally, it's very hard to maintain after any weight loss. 95% of us don't. Extreme and fast loss dieters, even less. But it's hardly physically impossible to maintain unless you do it super slowly. Most dieters give up long before getting a good result on the super slow plans. That's not good, either.

Morganrcb1

I'm actually, doing the CMWL, weight loss program. It's more of people like me, who have a serious medical issue, that need to loose the weight fast. It's not all just here eat this shake and then gain it back later. It's about jump starting you, to motivate you to loose weight and your metabolism, based off of other medications causing you to gain weight. Then it modififying your diet slow adding foods back in, so you train yourself to eat better. You detoxify all the chemicals, and soda in your body and starting adding more water. It's about them teaching how to cook healthy meals, and balancing out your suppliments each day, so you are getting what you need. I eat 2 shakes, a snack and a 550 calorie dinner, i've lost the first week. So it's not all about the weight loss, as it is about starting over and having their support, and guidelines to help you. clearly many people out there eat healthy and aren't overweight too.. so why not start over? You people are nuts..

Morganrcb1

oh and it's a 12 week program, so you loose 2-3 lbs a week. So after the program, you will be prepared to reaching your goals.

ValkyrieFD

I am on the Optifast 70 diet which is a medically supervised weight loss program at Kaiser Permenete and is a liquid diet. I have done a ton of research and even though we are only on 400 cal diet (I actually get an optional mean now since I have been exercising so much that allows me to go up to 600 cals but I rarely do) we are not in starvation mode.

We are in a state called ketosis, which is a fat burning mode, meaning we are burning our fat as fuel. The shakes are nutritionally balanced and contain all the vitamins and trace minerals you need but we also take extra fiber and potassium. The shakes have a ton of protein, and the program is very muscle sparing (if you didn't have everything balanced right you WOULD go into starvation mode which eats muscle and fat).

Anyway, everyone is correct though, that while this is a very fast and effective way to lose weight, if you don't change your lifestyle and habits, you will gain it right back. This is why I have used MFP every day and have started compiling list of healthy recipes and substitutions WHILE I am doing this program.

I will be on this diet for 6 weeks come Monday and have lost close to 27 lbs already, although it is slowing down now. I am half way to my goal of 125lbs. I take pics and measurements every two weeks, this was my 1 month update 2 weeks ago at -22lbs loss. I had just qualified as "obese" according to my height and weight , 5.375 in. & 180lbs when I started this program (I was actually at my heaviest of 185 right before I started but I lost 5 lbs just logging the two weeks prior), which is what lit the fire under my *kitten*.



Anyway, yes this is the fast and easy way to lose weight (easy if you have the WILLPOWER) and I absolutely love the program. We have weekly group meetings that focus on education, changing lifestyles, addressing breaking habits etc, and there is slow 6 week transition back on food with a nutritionist as well. After that, there is a year of monthly support meetings to continue to be successful. But in the end, it is up to YOU to stick with being healthy after all is said and done. Otherwise you are just wasting time and money.

I highly recommend this type of program for fast weight loss IF you can commit to changing your lifestyle, your habits, and your outlook on food and health.

Cheers and good luck!

georgeyacoub

Once you decide to stop the cutting phase you should increase your caloric intake gradually as recommended by Tom Venuto in "Burn the Fat, Feed the muscle". Great book by the way.

jennyct10

You most certainly can gain weight on 1600 calories a day. If you overeat (or remain sedentary) by any amount you will gain. By just eating 35 extra calories a day on average, you can gain 15 lbs in 5 years or 30 in 10!