Getting Ahead

sktllmdrhmz

So, the idea that pretty people get ahead in life based on their looks is pretty commonplace, right?

Do you think that's fair or unfair?

Now obviously, this topic might just separate itself with pretty people saying it's fair on one side and ugly people saying it's unfair on the other side,

Are any of you hoping or maybe even planning to use your newfound looks to get ahead?

I, for one, am aware of how much effort goes into being fit, and when I get to that point I will very happily reap any benefits it might provide without a second thought.

sisierra

I, for one, am aware of how much effort goes into being fit, and when I get to that point I will very happily reap any benefits it might provide without a second thought.

I bloody effing love you. And they way I see it, beauty is a tool and I'm merciless in using any tools I have at my disposal for success.

Some people might think it's unfair, but *kitten*, if you don't want to pay be "pretty" work on your body. *shrug*

spade117

I like getting head.

Oliviamarie05

I don't really know a clear-cut answer to this question.

I know that when I get to the best possible shape of my life, I'll work whatever I'm wearing a little more. Maybe flash a little b00b to get out of a ticket lol.

Is it fair? No, but it's human nature. We like pretty, appealing things whether it's rings, clothes, pets, homes, people. It's just who we are as a species.

Diary_Queen

I know that my workplace values health and fitness. If that gets me a promotion or more respect or a bigger budget to bring the non-profit venues I represent into light -- cool! If it gets someone to stop and help me change a tire in the rain -- also cool. If it gets me extra special service (no happy endings) at a diner -- I'm ok with that. Do I think it will.... eh, probably somewhere along the time. Do I think it's 'right'.... I'm not particularly swayed either way. I give people the inside scoop on events coming up if I like the sound of their voice on the phone. I let people cut ahead of me in line if they are haggard looking worn-out parent types that are dragging screaming kids through the store. We all tend to let things slide for some people and not for others. For me, it's a case by case basis.

I have been made aware that I've sparked a trend among my co-workers to track calories, get extra exercise, ask for a specifc exercise room where we will bring extra equipment, weights, and workout DVDs and that I've helped people sign up for a service that our health insurance provides where active members get discount points on stuff we can buy. This made me feel good and want to continue my efforts of getting healthy to set an example for other people.... whatever else comes along, I'm darn well keeping though!

Diary_Queen

I like getting head.

and this.... this also applies in most cases LOL

r3ban1x

I was very pretty and thin in my 20's and it got me nowhere. I was also very stubborn and independent and didn't want help from anyone so when people would offer me jobs I wouldn't take them b/c I thought I could do it on my own but that turned out to be wrong as I'm in a worse place financially now than I was 10 years ago and now I have a college degree. Most interviews I had were either with women who were harder on me because of my looks or with men who expected me to use my looks to sell useless crap so they could make a lot of money. If life is "easier" for pretty people it's because they take advantage of it which I didn't do but probably should have.

shelbiejo

It is so fair. I seen a picture once that had before and afters of a group of women. The before pictures were of these overweight, old and weathered looking women....The afters were these gorgeous, fit and young women...THE SAME WOMEN! And it had a quote at the bottom "There is not such thing as an ugly women, just a lazy women." I loved it!

still_crafty

I'm totally guilty of having high respect (just on sight) for people who put in the effort to be fit and take care of themselves . . . that being said, that respect can easily be stripped away as soon as that person opens their mouth.

In my career, how I look is very important every day. If I look like hell, it won't matter what kind of brilliance comes out of my mouth, some people will have already made up their minds.

lickmybaconcakes

So, the idea that pretty people get ahead in life based on their looks is pretty commonplace, right?

Do you think that's fair or unfair?

Now obviously, this topic might just separate itself with pretty people saying it's fair on one side and ugly people saying it's unfair on the other side,

Are any of you hoping or maybe even planning to use your newfound looks to get ahead?

I, for one, am aware of how much effort goes into being fit, and when I get to that point I will very happily reap any benefits it might provide without a second thought.

well as fairness is being defined as something that holds itself to regulations and standards, then in this case fairness is derived from the values portrayed by society and it's clear that society shows being attractive as a positive thing as many people that are in the regularly media are only there because of their looks; nothing else at all. I myself view it in the same way as using your intelligence to get ahead in life.

Elizabeth_C34

Smart people get WAY further than pretty people. Ever seen the Forbes richest people list? Ever notice most world leaders? Not a lot of pretty faces there.

But to your original point, I see no problem with using your looks to your advantage. Though, in my experience, in some careers, being super-attractive isn't always a good thing. It can result in being ostracized instead of promoted on your merit.

BrettPGH

Smart people get WAY further than pretty people. Ever seen the Forbes richest people list? Not a lot of pretty faces there.

Exactly. There are much better skill sets to have than simple attractiveness. Beauty fades.

sktllmdrhmz

Smart people get WAY further than pretty people. Ever seen the Forbes richest people list? Not a lot of pretty faces there.

But what about smart pretty people? Because there are a lot of tall people there.

I haven't checked Gladwell's sources, but:

"In fact Malcolm Gladwell in his bestselling book Blink takes this argument to another level. "I polled about half of the companies on the Fortune 500 list, asking each company questions about its CEO. In my sample, I found that on average CEOs were just a shade under six feet. Given that the average American male is 5'9" that means that CEOs, as a group, have about three inches on the rest of their sex. But this statistic actually understates matters. In the U.S. population, about 14.5% of all men are six feet or over. Among CEOs of Fortune 500 companies, that number is 58%. Even more strikingly, in the general American population, 3.9% of adult men are 6'2" or taller. Among my CEO sample, 30% were 6'2" or taller," writes Gladwell."


ETA link to interesting general article:
http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2011-09-30/news/30229082_1_ceos-necktie-salaries

neverstray

Smart people get WAY further than pretty people. Ever seen the Forbes richest people list? Ever notice most world leaders? Not a lot of pretty faces there.

It's funny that people associate success and being smart. Usually, it's just dumb luck. Some of the smartest people I know are the poorest. It's not smart that our society rewards, it's something else.

macpatti

Now obviously, this topic might just separate itself with pretty people saying it's fair on one side and ugly people saying it's unfair on the other side

Shallow much? You're not just talking about having respect for people who are fit and healthy. You're talking about people's looks. It also depends on what you consider "success" or "getting ahead". I find people who are smart, kind, humble regardless of how "pretty" they are to be more successful in life.

BrettPGH

Smart people get WAY further than pretty people. Ever seen the Forbes richest people list? Not a lot of pretty faces there.

But what about smart pretty people? Because there are a lot of tall people there.

I haven't checked Gladwell's sources, but:

"In fact Malcolm Gladwell in his bestselling book Blink takes this argument to another level. "I polled about half of the companies on the Fortune 500 list, asking each company questions about its CEO. In my sample, I found that on average CEOs were just a shade under six feet. Given that the average American male is 5'9" that means that CEOs, as a group, have about three inches on the rest of their sex. But this statistic actually understates matters. In the U.S. population, about 14.5% of all men are six feet or over. Among CEOs of Fortune 500 companies, that number is 58%. Even more strikingly, in the general American population, 3.9% of adult men are 6'2" or taller. Among my CEO sample, 30% were 6'2" or taller," writes Gladwell."

You posted about attractive people and then quoted studies about tall people. Forgive me if I don't follow...

Intelligent and attractive people would of couse do very well, but that would mostly be due to their intelligence. Looks don't hurt but unless it's specifically a looks based career (acting, modeling, etc.) you just aren't going to get very far based on looks alone. Again they don't hurt, but you need something more to back them up.

Elizabeth_C34

Smart people get WAY further than pretty people. Ever seen the Forbes richest people list? Not a lot of pretty faces there.

But what about smart pretty people? Because there are a lot of tall people there.

I haven't checked Gladwell's sources, but:

"In fact Malcolm Gladwell in his bestselling book Blink takes this argument to another level. "I polled about half of the companies on the Fortune 500 list, asking each company questions about its CEO. In my sample, I found that on average CEOs were just a shade under six feet. Given that the average American male is 5'9" that means that CEOs, as a group, have about three inches on the rest of their sex. But this statistic actually understates matters. In the U.S. population, about 14.5% of all men are six feet or over. Among CEOs of Fortune 500 companies, that number is 58%. Even more strikingly, in the general American population, 3.9% of adult men are 6'2" or taller. Among my CEO sample, 30% were 6'2" or taller," writes Gladwell."

They may be taller statistically, but they didn't get there by being tall. That's my point. They got there by being smart, resourceful, and wise. I have no doubt than an average guy who is extremely good at his job and clever enough could be a very successful CEO making a ton of money (and according to those statistics, that's still true). In the end, it matters more what you DO than what you look like if you want to get to the very top in life.

My field is academia, and I can tell you straight up that most of my colleagues and the people who are "superstars" in our community of scientists are not attractive. What they do have is a lot of cleverness and a lot of dedication to their job. Looks only get you so far in life. The prettiest person in the room may get your attention initially, but if he/she can't do the job as well as someone else who isn't as attractive, they won't hold that job for long.

Elizabeth_C34

Smart people get WAY further than pretty people. Ever seen the Forbes richest people list? Ever notice most world leaders? Not a lot of pretty faces there.

It's funny that people associate success and being smart. Usually, it's just dumb luck. Some of the smartest people I know are the poorest. It's not smart that our society rewards, it's something else.

It takes a lot of brains to be at the top in any career. It also takes courage, a willingness to dedicate yourself to being the best at what you do, and the wisdom to know what to do and when to do it. Society DOES reward cleverness. Thinking that people get there "by dumb luck" is why a lot of people stay poor and never succeed in life. Luck is only a small part of it. It's hard work, cleverness, and passion that gets you there.

Captain_Tightpants

Nah pretty only gets you aheads in certain arenas. If you wanted to be successful in, say, the inbred backwoods horror movie genre, then you can get successful even if one eye is way out of line with the other.

MelMoly

so at my next job interview I should wear a fitting skirt and pretend I know something about aerospace engineering :sad:

sisierra

I'm totally guilty of having high respect (just on sight) for people who put in the effort to be fit and take care of themselves . . . that being said, that respect can easily be stripped away as soon as that person opens their mouth.

In my career, how I look is very important every day. If I look like hell, it won't matter what kind of brilliance comes out of my mouth, some people will have already made up their minds.

love this, and your profile picture haha

sktllmdrhmz

You posted about attractive people and then quoted studies about tall people. Forgive me if I don't follow...

Intelligent and attractive people would of couse do very well, but that would mostly be due to their intelligence. Looks don't hurt but unless it's specifically a looks based career (acting, modeling, etc.) you just aren't going to get very far based on looks alone. Again they don't hurt, but you need something more to back them up.

You're right. I should have phrased my original post a little more broadly. The tall people get perceived as better leaders based on their appearance. There's a correlation between their success and their looks, though not necessarily their attractiveness.

sktllmdrhmz

They may be taller statistically, but they didn't get there by being tall. That's my point. They got there by being smart, resourceful, and wise. I have no doubt than an average guy who is extremely good at his job and clever enough could be a very successful CEO making a ton of money (and according to those statistics, that's still true). In the end, it matters more what you DO than what you look like if you want to get to the very top in life.

My field is academia, and I can tell you straight up that most of my colleagues and the people who are "superstars" in our community of scientists are not attractive. What they do have is a lot of cleverness and a lot of dedication to their job. Looks only get you so far in life. The prettiest person in the room may get your attention initially, but if he/she can't do the job as well as someone else who isn't as attractive, they won't hold that job for long.

I agree with you. You can't get by on looks alone. But provided they have the required (not the best, necessarily) skill set to do the job, they probably have a leg up on it.

Elizabeth_C34

They may be taller statistically, but they didn't get there by being tall. That's my point. They got there by being smart, resourceful, and wise. I have no doubt than an average guy who is extremely good at his job and clever enough could be a very successful CEO making a ton of money (and according to those statistics, that's still true). In the end, it matters more what you DO than what you look like if you want to get to the very top in life.

My field is academia, and I can tell you straight up that most of my colleagues and the people who are "superstars" in our community of scientists are not attractive. What they do have is a lot of cleverness and a lot of dedication to their job. Looks only get you so far in life. The prettiest person in the room may get your attention initially, but if he/she can't do the job as well as someone else who isn't as attractive, they won't hold that job for long.

I agree with you. You can't get by on looks alone. But provided they have the required (not the best, necessarily) skill set to do the job, they probably have a leg up on it.

Maybe initially, but not in the long run. Most careers are too competitive for mediocre people to get to the top. It might get you an initial advantage, but eventually, the guy hitting the pavement, coming up with blockbuster ideas, making the best connections, getting the best skills under his belt, etc. will win out over the good-looking mediocre-skilled guy.

Just to clarify, I don't think that means that people should just "let themselves go" or whatever. Being presentable and approachable is critical too, but just that in the end, it's the people who put in the work and have the skills that make it the furthest is all. That's really my only point.

sktllmdrhmz

Now obviously, this topic might just separate itself with pretty people saying it's fair on one side and ugly people saying it's unfair on the other side

Shallow much? You're not just talking about having respect for people who are fit and healthy. You're talking about people's looks. It also depends on what you consider "success" or "getting ahead". I find people who are smart, kind, humble regardless of how "pretty" they are to be more successful in life.

Do you follow me around these days? And yes, I am talking about how people look. That's the whole point of the discussion.

BrettPGH

You posted about attractive people and then quoted studies about tall people. Forgive me if I don't follow...

Intelligent and attractive people would of couse do very well, but that would mostly be due to their intelligence. Looks don't hurt but unless it's specifically a looks based career (acting, modeling, etc.) you just aren't going to get very far based on looks alone. Again they don't hurt, but you need something more to back them up.

You're right. I should have phrased my original post a little more broadly. The tall people get perceived as better leaders based on their appearance. There's a correlation between their success and their looks, though not necessarily their attractiveness.

That's just the primitive monkey parts of our brain responding to what we perceive as a strong leader based on outdated qualifications. I was just thinking yesterday how funny it is that we still have that. It's not like anyone honestly believes their boss is going to have to physically fight somebody for the well being of the company. Yet there it still is.. hundreds of thousands of years later. Still looking up to the biggest primate in the room for leadership.

There's a reason most women say they won't date short men, and it has nothing to do with dancing as they like to claim.

sktllmdrhmz

They may be taller statistically, but they didn't get there by being tall. That's my point. They got there by being smart, resourceful, and wise. I have no doubt than an average guy who is extremely good at his job and clever enough could be a very successful CEO making a ton of money (and according to those statistics, that's still true). In the end, it matters more what you DO than what you look like if you want to get to the very top in life.

My field is academia, and I can tell you straight up that most of my colleagues and the people who are "superstars" in our community of scientists are not attractive. What they do have is a lot of cleverness and a lot of dedication to their job. Looks only get you so far in life. The prettiest person in the room may get your attention initially, but if he/she can't do the job as well as someone else who isn't as attractive, they won't hold that job for long.

I agree with you. You can't get by on looks alone. But provided they have the required (not the best, necessarily) skill set to do the job, they probably have a leg up on it.

Maybe initially, but not in the long run. Most careers are too competitive for mediocre people to get to the top. It might get you an initial advantage, but eventually, the guy hitting the pavement, coming up with blockbuster ideas, making the best connections, getting the best skills under his belt, etc. will win out over the good-looking mediocre-skilled guy.

They absolutely will. But good-looking mediocre-skilled guy will probably get ahead of ugly mediocre-skilled guy.

atsteele

So, the idea that pretty people get ahead in life based on their looks is pretty commonplace, right?

Do you think that's fair or unfair?

Now obviously, this topic might just separate itself with pretty people saying it's fair on one side and ugly people saying it's unfair on the other side,

Are any of you hoping or maybe even planning to use your newfound looks to get ahead?

I, for one, am aware of how much effort goes into being fit, and when I get to that point I will very happily reap any benefits it might provide without a second thought.

Whether or not it is fair, there is a general bias towards better looking people in the business world. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203687504576655331418204842.html

And if I am planning to use my looks to get ahead, now or in the future, I'm screwed. Because I'm 45yo this year and this gal isn't getting any better looking.

Elizabeth_C34

They may be taller statistically, but they didn't get there by being tall. That's my point. They got there by being smart, resourceful, and wise. I have no doubt than an average guy who is extremely good at his job and clever enough could be a very successful CEO making a ton of money (and according to those statistics, that's still true). In the end, it matters more what you DO than what you look like if you want to get to the very top in life.

My field is academia, and I can tell you straight up that most of my colleagues and the people who are "superstars" in our community of scientists are not attractive. What they do have is a lot of cleverness and a lot of dedication to their job. Looks only get you so far in life. The prettiest person in the room may get your attention initially, but if he/she can't do the job as well as someone else who isn't as attractive, they won't hold that job for long.

I agree with you. You can't get by on looks alone. But provided they have the required (not the best, necessarily) skill set to do the job, they probably have a leg up on it.

Maybe initially, but not in the long run. Most careers are too competitive for mediocre people to get to the top. It might get you an initial advantage, but eventually, the guy hitting the pavement, coming up with blockbuster ideas, making the best connections, getting the best skills under his belt, etc. will win out over the good-looking mediocre-skilled guy.

They absolutely will. But good-looking mediocre-skilled guy will probably get ahead of ugly mediocre-skilled guy.

That may be, but both of those guys are capable of putting in more work to improve their skills. It's not always about the looks.

I've actually seen instances where being TOO good looking can be a problem for some people. I've had female colleagues who are really beautiful run into problems with people not taking them seriously even if their work is better than most of their counterparts. It can go either way.

sktllmdrhmz

That's just the primitive monkey parts of our brain responding to what we perceive as a strong leader based on outdated qualifications. I was just thinking yesterday how funny it is that we still have that. It's not like anyone honestly believes their boss is going to have to physically fight somebody for the well being of the company. Yet there it still is.. hundreds of thousands of years later. Still looking up to the biggest primate in the room for leadership.

There's a reason most women say they won't date short men, and it has nothing to do with dancing as they like to claim.

I've also wondered if there might be some correlation between confidence and the extroverted nature of these guys and their size. I wonder if they were always the big kids on the playground, so to speak, and have been in a leadership/"speak their mind" position their entire lives.

macpatti

Do you follow me around these days? And yes, I am talking about how people look. That's the whole point of the discussion.

I follow the Chit-Chat forum and most of the topics I see from you give me the impression you're just a slight bit shallow. Anyway, I did reply other than to point that out.