Advice from those who have done it > those who haven't

jofjltncb6

You are a such a JERK!! ( LOL...thats why you are one of my favs here!)

And I kept reading, thinking, oh dear lord...he's talking about me...which I so hope isnt the case! I agree with you to a point...but I also think that, especially for woman, they need the encouragement and motivation that they can do the weight loss thing. I know, when I started just a few months back, I was very overweight...had never exercised a day in my life, ate crap from the moment I woke to the minutes I went to bed at night. I welcome ALL advise. I was truly lost. Some of the advise in hind-sight, was, well, STUPID...but I believe all gave in good faith.
You are incredibly disciplined, in shape and healthy- you should prob not take advise from someone like me, that has very little tried and true things that work. i have rambled entirely TOO much... I think bottom line, most people here just truly want to help others that are struggling.

No, I wasn't talking about you. (I would have called you out directly if that was the case. =P )

Yes, you are right, some people need encouragement and support more/differently than others...(and I admit, I'm not very good at that touchy feely crap)...and truly, these are the people I think are most likely to be affected by this issue. For me personally, I have done enough research and have an analytical approach to my own life such that I would never blindly follow advice from the MFP forums...but those who are desperate and looking for help...*any* help...might.

jofjltncb6

The one exception I would make to this is people who have done it before. There are lots of people who know how to lose weight.......They have done it before......some people many times.......Maybe they are just starting another "losing" cycle. They might be more qualified to talk about losing weight than someone who has only done it once. They probably should not offer any advice on keeping it off.

Oh, I can tell you how to lose weight. I've done it many times. Not sure I'd listen to my advice, though. My techniques, while arguably effective, haven't always been healthy and certainly haven't been sustainable.

The very fact that you acknowledge and admit this immediately takes you out of this class of posters to which I'm referring. In fact, your experience, *when presented with the admission that relative health and long-term sustainability have been issues for you* becomes immensely more valuable and helpful to others who may be experiencing the same issues in their journey.

dlwyatt82

Advice from those who have done it > those who haven't

I see where you're going with that, but I don't agree with how you said it. More accurate would be "Advice from knowledgeable people > advice from clueless people." You don't have to experience something to learn about it. You trust your doctor to diagnose diseases that he may have never actually encountered in his entire life, because he's learned how to do that. On the other side of that coin, even if you went from 600lbs to 120lbs, your own experiences, pitfalls and solutions won't necessarily match what another person is going through.

I've lost around 40 pounds since January, and have been lifting weights for about 4 months. In that time, I've learned a great deal about both topics, most of it from trusted or well-reviewed sources. I'm more than happy to share what I've learned with whoever asks, even if I haven't reached my goal weight yet (and probably won't for at least another year).

mfpcopine

Am I the only one? Should I have kept this opinion to myself? Am I a bad bad person for saying this? Go ahead, say what's on your mind.

Oh, and here's a smiley in case I sounded like a jerk and made you mad:

No, you're very sensible. I've managed to maintain my weight: You could argue that it's harder or as hard to maintain a healthy weight as to become overweight and than try to take off the pounds again and again.. I have exercised on and off for decades. (I don't love exercise. I admit it.)

I'm logging my weight here because I'm sedentary while recovering from an injury and a couple of hundred calories extra several days a week would mean a big weight gain form me.

I read a lot about fitness and diet theory. All the time, I see people here parroting advice that I believe not to be true;* in some cases it's been positively debunked. But you can't tell them anything.

*Some of the untrue or controversial things are:

The need to eat breakfast
That the body goes easily into starvation mode
It's a good idea to eat six times a day
There is a fixed minimum amount of calories that applies to a 4'1" woman and 6' man
Strength training never makes women makes bigger
The BMI is a measurement that knowledgeable people take seriously
That advanced advice for highly fit, usually young, elite athletes applies to someone who weighs 200 pounds
That the scale isn't a tool that should be used regularly
That you should eat more if your weight loss has temporarily stalled

I could go on and on.

jofjltncb6

Okay, thanks for all of the responses. You all have restored my faith in (MFP) humanity. Either I hit a recent streak of "those type" of posters, or maybe I just noticed them more because this issue has been bugging me a little lately. Regardless, it's good to know that MFP still has reasonable people who can share their reasonable opinions in a reasonable way.

Baked sweet potatoes with Kerrygold butter for everyone!

(Well, except for those of you who are low carb...[you know, carbs are good, right? You should eat some carbs...]...and those of you who are strictly anti-dairy...[while I agree that general pasteurized, homogenized dairy is far from optimal, butter is different...it's very low in lactose (or is it casein proteins? I forget) and butter from grassfed cows is even better for you...]...and those of you who are strictly paleo...[seriously, while Grok may not have eaten bushels of sweet potatoes, he may have foraged an occasional tuber while he was waiting for his next big kill, right?]

:huh:

albayin

I don;t think you are alone...I was just thinking about this myself...and replied on another thread with similar concern.

mayerel

The reality is no matter what this is the interwebz and you should be careful taking any advice from anyone without thinking it through and considering other options or facts.

I think your post is a good one to remind us all of that!

albayin

The one exception I would make to this is people who have done it before. There are lots of people who know how to lose weight.......They have done it before......some people many times.......Maybe they are just starting another "losing" cycle. They might be more qualified to talk about losing weight than someone who has only done it once. They probably should not offer any advice on keeping it off.

I think this is my point. That the opinion of those who have actually done the thing once (or more) maybe...*maybe*...should be regarded with more weight than those who are actually doing it the first time and are basing their opinion on what they *think* should be true.

That said, there is the danger of those who have actually done the thing believing that the way they accomplished it is the "one true way" even if it was less than optimal.

totally agreed! I was just thinking of that overweight guy who successfully lost 400 lbs and became a personal trainer but later put 250 back on...If anyone it would be he who knows better, right?

runny111

I think Darminism will prevail.
Stupid people will follow stupid advice.
The rest will sit back, listen, assess who is knowledgeable and how is full of it. Then proceed with caution.

Now here's my smiley:

artbkward

I think every comment on here needs to be taken with a grain of salt. Not everyone who has lost 100lbs is always right nor are people who have only lost 2 always wrong. Some people will always be full of *kitten*

I'm only showing as having lost 5 but I'm down 17 from my highest weight. I've been a runner for a decade and I've read countless books and articles on running, exercise and nutrition. I'm not an expert but I feel I have a reasonable grasp on right and wrong ways to lose weight.

I do think that a person should verify facts before making a radical change to their lifestyle. No message board will ever replace a doctor.

mfpcopine

Here's an analogy: I have taken some very rigorous classes as part of the evening program of a famous design school. I've had classes with teachers, some of whom first learned dressmaking or tailoring at the age of 5 or 10. I read home sewing blogs because I like to know about local suppliers, private tutors, that sort of thing. But there's an attitude on many of these blogs that a beginner can teach something as well as someone who's done it professionally for decades.

Crazy, but I'm not making this up.

The reason I know more than many of the bloggers is because I've learned from people who actually know what they're doing and have done it successfully for a very long time. But you can't tell them anything either.

thefreebiemom

The only thing about the tickers is that some people reset theirs when they get to a certain goal. So sometimes the person who has only lost 5lbs and 25 left to go could have lost 100lbs and then reset it to 30lbs for a new goal.

TheFitHooker

Lol yeah I agree with you... I have been told by someone who just joined here and had lost no weight that I was doing things wrong. Seriously? My results say other wise...

TadaGanIarracht

Well my ticker shows zero pounds lost but in actuality I've lost a little over 50 pounds. I bought a new scale so I'm starting anew, so to speak.

My point, unless you know for certain they're complete virgins when it comes to weight loss, your opinion could be very wrong.

Sidesteal

I think this is a tricky issue. In most other areas of life, I think it's perfectly normal to model your methods after successful people before you.

In fitness and nutrition however, it seems like there's a massive amount of silliness that gets spread from gym bro to gym bro or from blogger to reader. The person who is just starting out in the gym will ask the bigger guy in the gym how to do things and so begins what usually is nonsense.

Unfortunately, you can't look at someones physique and use it to determine whether or not they are telling you things that are necessary for you to succeed.

Just to make up an example, if I were to tell you that I do the following things and that you also need to do these things in order to succeed:

1) Exercise. Ideally, lift weights or do some form of resistance training.
2) Get rest.
3) Consume a reasonable amount of food relative to your needs/goals and consume adequate macronutrients.
4) Always use a drop-set after your heaviest set.
5) Never combine your carbs and fats in the same meal.
6) Deadlifts are an absolute must and you need to do these to grow.
7) Record everything you eat.
8) Do not do cardio, it burns up your muscles.
9) Make sure you wear a black hoodie when you lift. It will absorb light and you'll burn more calories.
10) Corn killed my uncle.


So when we look at this list, you could come up with an argument for some of it, some of it should look mandatory, and some of it should look like it probably isn't necessary at all or even silly.

But depending on your education in fitness, or on your current beliefs about training, you might draw a different conclusion than someone else does when looking at this list. In my opinion, 1, 2, and 3 are really the only mandatory things on this list (and you could make a case for 1 not being necessary depending on your goals).

But if someone that looks lean and muscular tells you that you need to do all of the above, what do you do?


It's definitely an issue.

JayByrd107

I'm sorry to hear about your uncle.

However, that thing about the black hoodie is totally wrong.

jofjltncb6

The only thing about the tickers is that some people reset theirs when they get to a certain goal. So sometimes the person who has only lost 5lbs and 25 left to go could have lost 100lbs and then reset it to 30lbs for a new goal.

True...one reason why I put almost no bearing on the ticker at all.

For example, what does my ticker say about me? (I'll wait a few before I explain what I think is a glaring weakness in how MFP does the tickers...)

jofjltncb6

Well my ticker shows zero pounds lost but in actuality I've lost a little over 50 pounds. I bought a new scale so I'm starting anew, so to speak.

My point, unless you know for certain they're complete virgins when it comes to weight loss, your opinion could be very wrong.

Impossible! Opinions are *never* wrong! (Or at least that's what people like to say...)

Of course, these same people like to say that there's no such thing as a stupid question too...and I'm pretty sure that's wrong too.

thedreamhazer

10) Corn killed my uncle.

Does this mean corn has to kill my uncle in order for me to get a chiseled physique, or that corn is obviously evil and to be avoided?

I must know!

Sidesteal

10) Corn killed my uncle.

Does this mean corn has to kill my uncle in order for me to get a chiseled physique, or that corn is obviously evil and to be avoided?

I must know!

Both. I heard it from a guy who squats 650, so it must be correct.

jofjltncb6

@Sidesteal

Thanks for jumping in on what ends up being a rehash of your very well done earlier post. Very good points.


And my condolences on your loss...but I think I have a way to avenge his death. What if we start a new diet fad...we'll call it, "so easy, even a _____ can do it"...and we'll tell everyone that corn is evil. They probably won't believe that, so how about we tell them, *all* grains are evil, including corn! Demand goes down, prices drop...and as long as the US government doesn't increase subsidies, then less corn will be planted. Bwaaahahaha, take that, corn!

*ahem*

(Okay, for the record, I actually *do* believe that bit about grains...so it's okay for me to mock paleo because I am one...right? (That is the way that works, right?))

TadaGanIarracht

Impossible! Opinions are *never* wrong! (Or at least that's what people like to say...)

Of course, these same people like to say that there's no such thing as a stupid question too...and I'm pretty sure that's wrong too.

My opinions are never wrong so I can relate to those people. Haha.

2012asv

You mean like people who see something on Dr. Oz and come back here and post frightening, outrageous things like how diet soda is making you FAT- not everything else you consume or lack of exercise, like it's a cold hard fact.

...Yeah, I agree.

AllTehBeers

There's only 2 things I'll seriously defend always. Eating a deficit (no matter WHAT is being eating) will result in weight loss (health and body comp is something entirely different) and eat more. 1200 calories is almost always too little. The rest is what you choose to make your diet something you can sustain for the long haul.

Oh, and I realize people will disagree with me here too. I'm just saying what I think to be true.

Sidesteal

@Sidesteal

Thanks for jumping in on what ends up being a rehash of your very well done earlier post. Very good points.


And my condolences on your loss...but I think I have a way to avenge his death. What if we start a new diet fad...we'll call it, "so easy, even a _____ can do it"...and we'll tell everyone that corn is evil. They probably won't believe that, so how about we tell them, *all* grains are evil, including corn! Demand goes down, prices drop...and as long as the US government doesn't increase subsidies, then less corn will be planted. Bwaaahahaha, take that, corn!

*ahem*

(Okay, for the record, I actually *do* believe that bit about grains...so it's okay for me to mock paleo because I am one...right? (That is the way that works, right?))

You can mock as you please sir.

I will save the grain debate since that inevitably causes threads to get locked and people to hurl insults without any regard for exchanging information

AllTehBeers

*snip*

I will save the grain debate since that inevitably causes threads to get locked and people to hurl insults without any regard for exchanging information

I like info and facts. When an OP has a good solid arguement that makes me think, that's what I enjoy. What I don't enjoy is when the OP doesn't know anything and starts attacking people on a personal level, that makes me lose all respect.

jofjltncb6

@Sidesteal

Thanks for jumping in on what ends up being a rehash of your very well done earlier post. Very good points.


And my condolences on your loss...but I think I have a way to avenge his death. What if we start a new diet fad...we'll call it, "so easy, even a _____ can do it"...and we'll tell everyone that corn is evil. They probably won't believe that, so how about we tell them, *all* grains are evil, including corn! Demand goes down, prices drop...and as long as the US government doesn't increase subsidies, then less corn will be planted. Bwaaahahaha, take that, corn!

*ahem*

(Okay, for the record, I actually *do* believe that bit about grains...so it's okay for me to mock paleo because I am one...right? (That is the way that works, right?))

You can mock as you please sir.

I will save the grain debate since that inevitably causes threads to get locked and people to hurl insults without any regard for exchanging information

Just so I can set my expectations, which side of the grain debate are you? They are evil and will consume your very soul, will endanger everything you hold dear and true, and are likely the cause of every known disease or illness? Or they are a gift directly from God above and should be cherished as a gift from God should be and we should eat at least 17 serving every day and find creative ways to add them to foods that otherwise would not have them...(and I mean, *whole* grains, of course)?

jofjltncb6

*snip*

I will save the grain debate since that inevitably causes threads to get locked and people to hurl insults without any regard for exchanging information

I like info and facts. When an OP has a good solid arguement that makes me think, that's what I enjoy. What I don't enjoy is when the OP doesn't know anything and starts attacking people on a personal level, that makes me lose all respect.

Well, your a stupid idot and a dumdum head.

EDIT: Oh great...now this whole thread will probably be deleted...and it will all start over again tomorrow like a big Matrix-esque reboot.

Sidesteal

Just so I can set my expectations, which side of the grain debate are you? They are evil and will consume your very soul, will endanger everything you hold dear and true, and are likely the cause of every known disease or illness? Or they are a gift directly from God above and should be cherished as a gift from God should be and we should eat at least 17 serving every day and find creative ways to add them to foods that otherwise would not have them...(and I mean, *whole* grains, of course)?

Ok, but pepper your angus. There may be a shytstorm ensuing after this post, since that's what usually happens:

I believe that there isn't nearly enough evidence to suggest that grains should be arbitrarily eliminated without first considering whether or not the individual has any sort of intolerance to said grains.

I believe that arbitrary food elimination without necessary cause is a bad thing regardless of whether or not the micronutrients present in said food item are found elsewhere.

Lastly, if you've got an intolerance to grains or an intolerance to ANY food item, you should eliminate it (celiac disease, non celiac gluten sensitivity, etc). Telling everyone to avoid grains would be similar to telling everyone to avoid shrimp because of shellfish allergy.

AllTehBeers

*snip*

I will save the grain debate since that inevitably causes threads to get locked and people to hurl insults without any regard for exchanging information

I like info and facts. When an OP has a good solid arguement that makes me think, that's what I enjoy. What I don't enjoy is when the OP doesn't know anything and starts attacking people on a personal level, that makes me lose all respect.

Well, your a stupid idot and a dumdum head.

EDIT: Oh great...now this whole thread will probably be deleted...and it will all start over again tomorrow like a big Matrix-esque reboot.

Yeah cuz I reported you!