Quad development

Willbenchforcupcakes

Hoping some people with a lot of experience can help me out. I've been lifting heavy again after a 10 year break since mid-November, and overall am loving the results in my body. With my quads however, my vastus medialis is lagging behind development-wise, and am wondering if anyone has some exercises (or just different foot positions) that will help out. My core lower-body lifts are squats, romanian deadlifts, split squats, lunges, and incline leg press, with others thrown in as time allows.

Phrak

I built mine with heavy heavy squats, and deadlifts, no more then 5 reps. Ive just started doing fluff exercises to see what will happen.

Willbenchforcupcakes

I built mine with heavy heavy squats, and deadlifts, no more then 5 reps. Ive just started doing fluff exercises to see what will happen.

Your quads look awesome! I'm currently doing 4x8's, just finding with standard foot positioning that I'm developing the lateral quads a lot faster than the medials, and know that for me if I allow it to continue, I'm in for a world of knee pain.

MrDude_1

squats.
work your way up. keep proper form, and just keep doing heavy squats.

thats all there is to it.

Mayor_West

Here's a great video by Mike O'hearn talking about good squatting technique:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05V44FHpeKc

I'm not recommending you follow his program, per se, but the form is spot-on IMHO.

Willbenchforcupcakes

Here's a great video by Mike O'hearn talking about good squatting technique:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05V44FHpeKc

I'm not recommending you follow his program, per se, but the form is spot-on IMHO.

Thanks for that video, I can see how a wider stance will help balance the full development of the quads. I'll start giving it a try tonight.

dane11235813

I built mine with heavy heavy squats, and deadlifts, no more then 5 reps. Ive just started doing fluff exercises to see what will happen.

do you squat and deadlift on the same day?

myofibril

My core lower-body lifts are squats, romanian deadlifts, split squats, lunges, and incline leg press, with others thrown in as time allows.

Those look pretty good. You could also try adding a step up of some sort:



It seems like part of your aim is to either support the structures around the knee if I have that right, perhaps due to instability or weakness? If that is the case, then you may be better off looking to target your hamstrings and glutes to provide overall strengh in the upper leg rather than worrying too much about vastus medialis. You'll get a better return overall doing that I think.

Phrak

I built mine with heavy heavy squats, and deadlifts, no more then 5 reps. Ive just started doing fluff exercises to see what will happen.

do you squat and deadlift on the same day?

Yup. always squat and deadlift on the same day. I use squats as a warmup.

beanerific518

With my quads however, my vastus medialis is lagging behind development-wise

I've been doing incline leg press with a wider stance. Also leg extensions with toes pointed out. I had the same issue before and these simple tweaks are working for me.

JNick77

Hoping some people with a lot of experience can help me out. I've been lifting heavy again after a 10 year break since mid-November, and overall am loving the results in my body. With my quads however, my vastus medialis is lagging behind development-wise, and am wondering if anyone has some exercises (or just different foot positions) that will help out. My core lower-body lifts are squats, romanian deadlifts, split squats, lunges, and incline leg press, with others thrown in as time allows.

Couple questions for you...

1. Squats and Deadlifts: What is your set and rep scheme that you follow? Do you know about how heavy you're lifting relative to your 1-rep max
2. RDL's: Rep/Set scheme? - Although note this is more of a hamstring / glute, lower back exercise, assuming it's done correctly. Which is fine because you need to keep muscle balance.
3. Split Squats: Are you talking about Bulgarian Split Squats are barbell split squats. Rep/Set scheme?
4. Lunges: Are these walking or stationary? If walking do you take a fairly long or fairly short stride? Does your knee touch the ground? Rep/set scheme?

Willbenchforcupcakes

My core lower-body lifts are squats, romanian deadlifts, split squats, lunges, and incline leg press, with others thrown in as time allows.

Those look pretty good. You could also try adding a step up of some sort:



It seems like part of your aim is to either support the structures around the knee if I have that right, perhaps due to instability or weakness? If that is the case, then you may be better off looking to target your hamstrings and glutes to provide overall strengh in the upper leg rather than worrying too much about vastus medialis. You'll get a better return overall doing that I think.

Yes, I am working on strengthening and supporting around my knees. I do have a natural muscle imbalance where my hamstrings and glutes are much stronger than my quads, at it's worst I had almost a 20 degree state of hyperflexion in my knees, it's improving, and is now about 10 degrees.
I have suffered a ton of injuries to my right knee. When I was 13, I was bucked off a horse and he stepped on my knee, on the medial aspect of the tibial head, shredding the mcl, tearing the meniscus, and severely bruising the bone, and have retorn the mcl multiple times. I have natural very lax ligaments, in my knees both the acl and pcl are extremely loose, to the point where an orthopedic surgeon thought that he might have to do reconstructive surgery on them, although they have never been injured. So for me, keeping my muscle development perfectly balance is very important, to help stabilize my knees, and part of that is keeping my medial and lateral aspects of my quads balanced.
As for step-ups, they are in the rotation about every 2 weeks.

Willbenchforcupcakes

Hoping some people with a lot of experience can help me out. I've been lifting heavy again after a 10 year break since mid-November, and overall am loving the results in my body. With my quads however, my vastus medialis is lagging behind development-wise, and am wondering if anyone has some exercises (or just different foot positions) that will help out. My core lower-body lifts are squats, romanian deadlifts, split squats, lunges, and incline leg press, with others thrown in as time allows.

Couple questions for you...

1. Squats and Deadlifts: What is your set and rep scheme that you follow? Do you know about how heavy you're lifting relative to your 1-rep max - Doing 4 sets of 8, with a warm-up set with just the bar to see how the muscles are feeling to determine the weight. Last time I did them I was at 135, feeling like I could increase this week as I could easily finish my reps and felt like I could do more. Haven't tried for a 1rm recently, although realistically, my knee and pelvis would be the limiting factors on it, not muscle strength. I generally aim to have just enough strength left to press up on the last rep and get the bar back in the rack, needing around 90sec-2 min to be able to do the next set.
2. RDL's: Rep/Set scheme? - Although note this is more of a hamstring / glute, lower back exercise, assuming it's done correctly. Which is fine because you need to keep muscle balance. 4x8's again. Working into full deads because I love them, but I need more strength around my knee to support it first, and grip strength is more my limiting factor on rdls, although it is improving tremendously with time.
3. Split Squats: Are you talking about Bulgarian Split Squats are barbell split squats. Rep/Set scheme? 4x8's, bulgarian.
4. Lunges: Are these walking or stationary? If walking do you take a fairly long or fairly short stride? Does your knee touch the ground? Rep/set scheme? I tend to alternate between stationary and walking. When doing walking, I use a midlength stride, and my back knee comes within 3 inches of the ground (any further and I feel too much pressure in my knees).

ishtar13

What about front squats?

You say your hams and glutes are more developed than the front muscles, so wouldn't front squats with a fairly wide stance help?

ishtar13

does something here help: http://exrx.net/Kinesiology/Weaknesses.html#anchor13238820

Willbenchforcupcakes

does something here help: http://exrx.net/Kinesiology/Weaknesses.html#anchor13238820

Yes, thank you:) It's good to know that as I continue to gain range of motion by strengthening my quads in general that I should be able to develop balance in my quads, and prevent all the problems that come with imbalanced quads - having your patella rub against your femoral groove hurts!

JNick77

Cool!

1. Squats: I'd recommend rotating between these and conventional Deadlifts (not RDL's). Honestly, checking out Starting Strength of StrongLifts 5x5 would be beneficial to you for setting up rep/set scheme. Until then, my recommendation would be to do sets (min 3 reps / max 5 reps, 3 is fine) and increase the weight 10lbs after each set until that last set of 3 or 5 reps is the last set you can increment, basically you've hit your 3, 4, or 5 rep max. There is no maximum number of sets to do here but try to do at least 5 sets. You might even find that you can make bigger jumps than 10lbs but being that you don't yet know your true limit on this exercise it's good to be conservative.

2. RDL's: Let's make sure we're talking the same thing. You're holding the bar in front of you standing with your legs straight and then you basically bend down until the bar is about knee to shin deep and then you pull back up? This is very much a posterior chain exercise, your quads should have little to do in the movement except for provide stability. You should feel a very good stretch in your hammies here. 4 sets of 8 - 10 reps is fine.

3. RE Bulgarian SS's: Very nice, I've come to love and hate this exercise. Can't say much more, 4 sets of 8-12 reps is fine. Although, if you take the recommendation of working-up to a true 3RM or 5RM on the Squat/DL then you may cut this to 3 sets.

4. Lunges: Sounds like you have some limitations but that happens, do the best you can with it. Definitely take as long as a stride as you can comfortably handle. Once you start going heavier on the Squats / DL's you may find 2 more quad-dominant accessory exercises to be too much but judge for yourself.

Other: Front Squats are a fine exercise but they can be fairly more technical than Back Squats. If you're comfortable with them then drop either the Bulgarian SS's or Lunges. The Leg Press isn't a bad assistance exercise to rotate with the Bulg SS's or Lunges either.

Cardio: What do you do for cardio? One thing that I've found to help my legs a TON is doing the Stairmill / Stairmaster. At the very least walk/jog/elliptical with a fair incline.

Willbenchforcupcakes

Cool!

1. Squats: I'd recommend rotating between these and conventional Deadlifts (not RDL's). Honestly, checking out Starting Strength of StrongLifts 5x5 would be beneficial to you for setting up rep/set scheme. Until then, my recommendation would be to do sets (min 3 reps / max 5 reps, 3 is fine) and increase the weight 10lbs after each set until that last set of 3 or 5 reps is the last set you can increment, basically you've hit your 3, 4, or 5 rep max. There is no maximum number of sets to do here but try to do at least 5 sets. You might even find that you can make bigger jumps than 10lbs but being that you don't yet know your true limit on this exercise it's good to be conservative.

2. RDL's: Let's make sure we're talking the same thing. You're holding the bar in front of you standing with your legs straight and then you basically bend down until the bar is about knee to shin deep and then you pull back up? This is very much a posterior chain exercise, your quads should have little to do in the movement except for provide stability. You should feel a very good stretch in your hammies here. 4 sets of 8 - 10 reps is fine.

3. RE Bulgarian SS's: Very nice, I've come to love and hate this exercise. Can't say much more, 4 sets of 8-12 reps is fine. Although, if you take the recommendation of working-up to a true 3RM or 5RM on the Squat/DL then you may cut this to 3 sets.

4. Lunges: Sounds like you have some limitations but that happens, do the best you can with it. Definitely take as long as a stride as you can comfortably handle. Once you start going heavier on the Squats / DL's you may find 2 more quad-dominant accessory exercises to be too much but judge for yourself.

Other: Front Squats are a fine exercise but they can be fairly more technical than Back Squats. If you're comfortable with them then drop either the Bulgarian SS's or Lunges. The Leg Press isn't a bad assistance exercise to rotate with the Bulg SS's or Lunges either.

Cardio: What do you do for cardio? One thing that I've found to help my legs a TON is doing the Stairmill / Stairmaster. At the very least walk/jog/elliptical with a fair incline.

1 - Thanks for the recommendations. I've checked out stronglifts, and as much as I love my core compound movements, I also love a lot of the accessory lifts as well. I do find that I gain strength the best on 4x8's, I looked back through my records and since feb I've gone from 45 to 135 on my squats, and similar increases on the rest of my lifts. I'll definitely keep it in mind for if I plateau in strength gains.
2- Yes, we are talking the same lift. My hamstrings and glutes love it - in fact, they would like to be challenged more, but again - they gain strength for me a lot quicker than my quads. Which is part of the reason why leg days are 1 hamstring exercise and 3-4 quads
3-My love for ss's is growing. Usually they are the last leg exercise, and finish burning out my quads
4-I have noticed that my stride distance in lunges is improving the more time I spend working on flexibility, especially in my hip flexors.
5 - I can do a sumo front squat, but anything closer stanced I feel like I'm going to lose my balance. I like the leg press because I can use touch to really focus muscle activation.
As for cardio, I currently do Insanity. I was doing c25k, but found the longer distances were worsening the muscle imbalance. As for the stepper, it is one of the only things multiple physios have banned me from.

JNick77

Cool!

1. Squats: I'd recommend rotating between these and conventional Deadlifts (not RDL's). Honestly, checking out Starting Strength of StrongLifts 5x5 would be beneficial to you for setting up rep/set scheme. Until then, my recommendation would be to do sets (min 3 reps / max 5 reps, 3 is fine) and increase the weight 10lbs after each set until that last set of 3 or 5 reps is the last set you can increment, basically you've hit your 3, 4, or 5 rep max. There is no maximum number of sets to do here but try to do at least 5 sets. You might even find that you can make bigger jumps than 10lbs but being that you don't yet know your true limit on this exercise it's good to be conservative.

2. RDL's: Let's make sure we're talking the same thing. You're holding the bar in front of you standing with your legs straight and then you basically bend down until the bar is about knee to shin deep and then you pull back up? This is very much a posterior chain exercise, your quads should have little to do in the movement except for provide stability. You should feel a very good stretch in your hammies here. 4 sets of 8 - 10 reps is fine.

3. RE Bulgarian SS's: Very nice, I've come to love and hate this exercise. Can't say much more, 4 sets of 8-12 reps is fine. Although, if you take the recommendation of working-up to a true 3RM or 5RM on the Squat/DL then you may cut this to 3 sets.

4. Lunges: Sounds like you have some limitations but that happens, do the best you can with it. Definitely take as long as a stride as you can comfortably handle. Once you start going heavier on the Squats / DL's you may find 2 more quad-dominant accessory exercises to be too much but judge for yourself.

Other: Front Squats are a fine exercise but they can be fairly more technical than Back Squats. If you're comfortable with them then drop either the Bulgarian SS's or Lunges. The Leg Press isn't a bad assistance exercise to rotate with the Bulg SS's or Lunges either.

Cardio: What do you do for cardio? One thing that I've found to help my legs a TON is doing the Stairmill / Stairmaster. At the very least walk/jog/elliptical with a fair incline.

1 - Thanks for the recommendations. I've checked out stronglifts, and as much as I love my core compound movements, I also love a lot of the accessory lifts as well. I do find that I gain strength the best on 4x8's, I looked back through my records and since feb I've gone from 45 to 135 on my squats, and similar increases on the rest of my lifts. I'll definitely keep it in mind for if I plateau in strength gains.
2- Yes, we are talking the same lift. My hamstrings and glutes love it - in fact, they would like to be challenged more, but again - they gain strength for me a lot quicker than my quads. Which is part of the reason why leg days are 1 hamstring exercise and 3-4 quads
3-My love for ss's is growing. Usually they are the last leg exercise, and finish burning out my quads
4-I have noticed that my stride distance in lunges is improving the more time I spend working on flexibility, especially in my hip flexors.
5 - I can do a sumo front squat, but anything closer stanced I feel like I'm going to lose my balance. I like the leg press because I can use touch to really focus muscle activation.
As for cardio, I currently do Insanity. I was doing c25k, but found the longer distances were worsening the muscle imbalance. As for the stepper, it is one of the only things multiple physios have banned me from.

Yeah, I actually agree about SL's. I'm not actually a big fan myself but it's not horrible for most beginners. The recommendation I provided regarding just do sets of 3 or 5 and work the weight up might be really good for you then because you can still work-in accessory work.

It's odd that there's such a muscle imbalance like yours. One thing that might be cool is to rotate between Lunges and BSS's, keep Leg Presses in but superset Leg Presses with Leg Extensions to just really isolate the quads. Do leg presses for like sets of 8-10 reps and then turn around and do sets of 15 with the Leg Extensions. The extensions would really be a way to just really exhaust that muscle group, save that combination for last. Banned from stairs... ouch! Sorry to hear that one, it's a great tool.

Willbenchforcupcakes

I just want to thank you all for your help:) I've got some pretty sweet DOMS settling in to my medial quads, letting me know I worked them a lot harder than I had been.