The "fat Burning zone" thing...

taxidermist15
taxidermist15 Posts: 677 Member
in Fitness and Exercise
ok, so i just got my new HRM (polar ft4) and did all the settings on it and calculated my max heart rate and all that sorta stuff. I calculated max heart rate as 220- age (or whatever it was, some calculation)

I am also doing the insanity programme, mixed with some P90x.

So when I do Insanity My heart rate goes through the roof and my silly little gadget wont stop beeping. This is when I really push myself.

If i exercise at my "target heat rate zone". it doesn't feel as if i'm pushing myself, I don't feel a burn, I don't get such a good sweat up and it kinda feels like cheating.

Originally I just brought my HRM to know exact calories I'm Burning, and now this heart rate zone has opened up a new can of worms. (which I know nothing about), can someone enlighten me on the whole heart rate zone things?
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Replies

  • AshlyRamos
    AshlyRamos Posts: 76 Member
    Great question. I've often wondered the same thing as they have the different zones posted on all of the cardio machines at the gym. Hmm.
  • sweetheart03622
    sweetheart03622 Posts: 928 Member
    The "fat burning zone" is a range of HR where a majority of your calories burnt come from fat, versus stored energy. Above that is the "cardio zone" where the majority burnt comes from stored energy, versus fat. You are still burning calories and still getting a workout either way.

    My advice: don't think about it too hard. If what you're doing is working, don't try to confuse yourself.
  • jadedbutterfly71
    jadedbutterfly71 Posts: 83 Member
    bump...I'm curious also
  • phinphanbill26
    phinphanbill26 Posts: 574 Member
    If you exceed your target heart rate you will only burn sugar...not fat.
  • Chipmaniac
    Chipmaniac Posts: 642 Member
    ok, so i just got my new HRM (polar ft4) and did all the settings on it and calculated my max heart rate and all that sorta stuff. I calculated max heart rate as 220- age (or whatever it was, some calculation)

    I am also doing the insanity programme, mixed with some P90x.

    So when I do Insanity My heart rate goes through the roof and my silly little gadget wont stop beeping. This is when I really push myself.

    If i exercise at my "target heat rate zone". it doesn't feel as if i'm pushing myself, I don't feel a burn, I don't get such a good sweat up and it kinda feels like cheating.

    Originally I just brought my HRM to know exact calories I'm Burning, and now this heart rate zone has opened up a new can of worms. (which I know nothing about), can someone enlighten me on the whole heart rate zone things?
    In short, the "fat burning zone" is simply the intensity level where the highest amount of fat is used as fuel. As your intensity increases, your body gradually switches fuels to use glycogen stored in your muscle. The catch is that if you stay in the low-intensity zone you will have to exercise a lot longer to burn the same amount of calories as you would at a higher level intensity. Additionally, you will not receive all of the cardio-vascular benefits that come with exercising at a higher intensity. Stick with the higher level zones for maximum benefit, unless you have a medical reason not to.
  • taxidermist15
    taxidermist15 Posts: 677 Member
    im just finding it hard to believe i can Half-@ss My Insanity programme (to stay in my heart rate zone), and still get the results..?
  • markymarrkk
    markymarrkk Posts: 495 Member
    Here's the best answer possible:

    1. Your actual max heart rate could be as high as 210 or more and still be "normal". An estimated max heart rate should just be used as a general road map until you actually start exercising and can compare your feelings of perceived exertion with your exercise heart rate.

    2. There is no "fat burning zone". There are intensity levels at which the body burns a higher percentage of fat for fuel (the highest percentage being at rest). However, the percentage of fat burned during a workout or the total amount of fat burned during a workout HAS NO EFFECT ON STORED BODY FAT. In other words there is NO advantage whatsoever in trying to "burn more fat" during a workout.

    2A. The same holds true for "working for a certain duration so that your body switches from burning carbs to burning fat". That indeed might happen, but it is of zero significance when it comes to reducing body fat. Your goals during exercise are to: train for fitness, maximize overall calorie expenditure, and conserve lean muscle mass. That is achieved through a balanced program that includes cardio exercise of different intensities and duration, and resistance training.

    in other words, go for it !! push yourself
  • secretlobster
    secretlobster Posts: 3,566 Member
    The heart rate monitor is a pretty effective way of gauging calorie burn during a cardio workout, which P90X isn't. I would probably not bother with it.

    There's nothing wrong with doing high intensity (read: high heart rate) workouts for cardiovascular improvement. But if you're working at 80-90% of your max heart rate, you are using more glycogen as fuel than fat. If fat burn is what you're after during a cardio workout, you really do want to work at about 65-85% max heart rate. That doesn't mean you aren't burning calories at a high intensity level... You are in fact burning more of them. It's just the ratio of fat/glycogen usage that changes.
  • BAMFMeredith
    BAMFMeredith Posts: 2,810 Member
    The "fat burning zone" is a range of HR where a majority of your calories burnt come from fat, versus stored energy. Above that is the "cardio zone" where the majority burnt comes from stored energy, versus fat. You are still burning calories and still getting a workout either way.

    My advice: don't think about it too hard. If what you're doing is working, don't try to confuse yourself.

    Ditto to that. I don't wear a HRM. I don't worry about my zones. If my heart feels like it's gonna beat out of my chest and I can't breathe, I take it down a notch. If I don't feel like I'm pushing myself at all, I kick it up a notch. Been working just fine for me that way!

    Not to knock your purchase of HRM though, they are valuable tools to estimate your calorie burn a bit more accurately, etc, I just can't stand wearing watches/straps/apparatus when I work out.
  • sweetheart03622
    sweetheart03622 Posts: 928 Member
    If you exceed your target heart rate you will only burn sugar...not fat.

    Not entirely true. First, your "target heart rate" is specific to each different workout. I have a certain THR for my speed workouts that's different from recovery runs and again different from long runs.

    But, your "fat burning zone" just means that a higher percentage of calories burnt are fat versus stored energy (glycogen, which is stored carbohydrates, such as sugar).
  • kgprice11
    kgprice11 Posts: 749 Member
    ok, so i just got my new HRM (polar ft4) and did all the settings on it and calculated my max heart rate and all that sorta stuff. I calculated max heart rate as 220- age (or whatever it was, some calculation)

    I am also doing the insanity programme, mixed with some P90x.

    So when I do Insanity My heart rate goes through the roof and my silly little gadget wont stop beeping. This is when I really push myself.

    If i exercise at my "target heat rate zone". it doesn't feel as if i'm pushing myself, I don't feel a burn, I don't get such a good sweat up and it kinda feels like cheating.

    Originally I just brought my HRM to know exact calories I'm Burning, and now this heart rate zone has opened up a new can of worms. (which I know nothing about), can someone enlighten me on the whole heart rate zone things?

    I agree with all of them about the "fat burning zone" however if you got the HRM to just measure your calories burned accurately, they do not the can only estimate based upon measurements and algorithms. But they will give you a good idea on what you burn :)
  • Perfectdiamonds1
    Perfectdiamonds1 Posts: 347 Member
    bump, getting a Polar tomorrow. this maybe useful
  • Gilbrod
    Gilbrod Posts: 1,216 Member
    I just turn off the sounds. I normally go over as well. The highest I've had it go was 190 for like 2 minutes. Sure, I felt like I was going to die, but my trainer says you can never over do it. If you can take it, let it go past the zone. At least thah's what I've been told.
  • MoveTheMountain
    MoveTheMountain Posts: 764
    ok, so i just got my new HRM (polar ft4) and did all the settings on it and calculated my max heart rate and all that sorta stuff. I calculated max heart rate as 220- age (or whatever it was, some calculation)

    I am also doing the insanity programme, mixed with some P90x.

    So when I do Insanity My heart rate goes through the roof and my silly little gadget wont stop beeping. This is when I really push myself.

    If i exercise at my "target heat rate zone". it doesn't feel as if i'm pushing myself, I don't feel a burn, I don't get such a good sweat up and it kinda feels like cheating.

    Originally I just brought my HRM to know exact calories I'm Burning, and now this heart rate zone has opened up a new can of worms. (which I know nothing about), can someone enlighten me on the whole heart rate zone things?

    You can turn off the beeping, that's what I did. The 'max heart rate' is just a guide, and the more you workout, the lower your heart rate will drop during the workouts - you'll probably see that happening in a few short weeks. As long as you're not risking giving yourself a heart attack, go for it. Go by how you feel: light headed? Stop immediately. Any weird numbness? Can't catch your breath? Stop immediately, etc.
  • BrianSharpe
    BrianSharpe Posts: 9,248 Member
    Forget everything you've heard about the "fat burning zone". This zone represents low intensity (60 to 70% maxHR) exercise that does in fact burn a higher proportion of calories from fat but overall burns a much lower number of calories than the more intense zones (and you're still burning fat).

    Obviously if your level of fitness only permits exercising at the lower intensity then that's where you work but assuming there are no other reasons not to work in the cardio zone you burn a lot more calories (which from a weight loss perspective is your goal) and you get a better cardiovascular workout.

    The fat burning zone is, however, of interest to endurance athletes as your body is only capable of storing a limited amount of glycogen but even a skinny marathon runner has 35,000 or more calories of fat available.
  • meerkat70
    meerkat70 Posts: 4,605 Member
    Here's the best answer possible:

    1. Your actual max heart rate could be as high as 210 or more and still be "normal". An estimated max heart rate should just be used as a general road map until you actually start exercising and can compare your feelings of perceived exertion with your exercise heart rate.

    2. There is no "fat burning zone". There are intensity levels at which the body burns a higher percentage of fat for fuel (the highest percentage being at rest). However, the percentage of fat burned during a workout or the total amount of fat burned during a workout HAS NO EFFECT ON STORED BODY FAT. In other words there is NO advantage whatsoever in trying to "burn more fat" during a workout.

    2A. The same holds true for "working for a certain duration so that your body switches from burning carbs to burning fat". That indeed might happen, but it is of zero significance when it comes to reducing body fat. Your goals during exercise are to: train for fitness, maximize overall calorie expenditure, and conserve lean muscle mass. That is achieved through a balanced program that includes cardio exercise of different intensities and duration, and resistance training.

    in other words, go for it !! push yourself

    This is the answer. The 'fat burning zone' is just one more weight loss myth. It's not so much that it doesn't exist as that it really doesn't matter.

    Enjoy your workouts.
  • dawnkay1
    dawnkay1 Posts: 41
    I just turn off the sounds. I normally go over as well. The highest I've had it go was 190 for like 2 minutes. Sure, I felt like I was going to die, but my trainer says you can never over do it. If you can take it, let it go past the zone. At least thah's what I've been told.

    On Saturday I went for a 2 mile walk, then a 2 mile jog, then another 2 mile jog. The last jogI did, was completely uphill (very steep too). My usual jogging heart rate is around 150-160bpm, however at one point my heart rate shot up to 180bpm and I started to see yellow flares in front of my eyes - you reckon I over did it a little? lol x
  • LesterBlackstone
    LesterBlackstone Posts: 291 Member
    Here's the best answer possible:

    1. Your actual max heart rate could be as high as 210 or more and still be "normal". An estimated max heart rate should just be used as a general road map until you actually start exercising and can compare your feelings of perceived exertion with your exercise heart rate.

    2. There is no "fat burning zone". There are intensity levels at which the body burns a higher percentage of fat for fuel (the highest percentage being at rest). However, the percentage of fat burned during a workout or the total amount of fat burned during a workout HAS NO EFFECT ON STORED BODY FAT. In other words there is NO advantage whatsoever in trying to "burn more fat" during a workout.

    2A. The same holds true for "working for a certain duration so that your body switches from burning carbs to burning fat". That indeed might happen, but it is of zero significance when it comes to reducing body fat. Your goals during exercise are to: train for fitness, maximize overall calorie expenditure, and conserve lean muscle mass. That is achieved through a balanced program that includes cardio exercise of different intensities and duration, and resistance training.

    in other words, go for it !! push yourself

    This is the correct answer
  • gogojodee
    gogojodee Posts: 1,243 Member
    Bump for later.
  • IronSmasher
    IronSmasher Posts: 3,908 Member
    Sat in front of the computer reading this, you're in the fat burning zone. I tried to explain this to a PTI years ago, unfortunately 99% of PTIs are complete idiots.

    More intensity burns more calories, and it's a calorie deficit that causes weight loss.

    Where the calories came from would only matter if you planned to never eat again.
  • secretlobster
    secretlobster Posts: 3,566 Member
    The fat burning zone is, however, of interest to endurance athletes as your body is only capable of storing a limited amount of glycogen but even a skinny marathon runner has 35,000 or more calories of fat available.

    This is important... Unless you're an athlete, heart rate target zones are not relevant to you.
  • MoveTheMountain
    MoveTheMountain Posts: 764
    The heart rate monitor is a pretty effective way of gauging calorie burn during a cardio workout, which P90X isn't. I would probably not bother with it.

    There's nothing wrong with doing high intensity (read: high heart rate) workouts for cardiovascular improvement. But if you're working at 80-90% of your max heart rate, you are using more glycogen as fuel than fat. If fat burn is what you're after during a cardio workout, you really do want to work at about 65-85% max heart rate. That doesn't mean you aren't burning calories at a high intensity level... You are in fact burning more of them. It's just the ratio of fat/glycogen usage that changes.

    I don't agree that P90-X isn't a cardio workout, and it's not smart to use a HRM. I use my HRM on all my P90X workouts, and I burn a boat load of calories. Now it is true that only some of the P90X workouts are aerobic, but anything that increases your heart rate is cardio vascular.
  • MoveTheMountain
    MoveTheMountain Posts: 764
    ok, so i just got my new HRM (polar ft4) and did all the settings on it and calculated my max heart rate and all that sorta stuff. I calculated max heart rate as 220- age (or whatever it was, some calculation)

    I am also doing the insanity programme, mixed with some P90x.

    So when I do Insanity My heart rate goes through the roof and my silly little gadget wont stop beeping. This is when I really push myself.

    If i exercise at my "target heat rate zone". it doesn't feel as if i'm pushing myself, I don't feel a burn, I don't get such a good sweat up and it kinda feels like cheating.

    Originally I just brought my HRM to know exact calories I'm Burning, and now this heart rate zone has opened up a new can of worms. (which I know nothing about), can someone enlighten me on the whole heart rate zone things?

    I agree with all of them about the "fat burning zone" however if you got the HRM to just measure your calories burned accurately, they do not the can only estimate based upon measurements and algorithms. But they will give you a good idea on what you burn :)

    It also makes sense to convert the gross calories that the HRM gives to net calories burned. Gross calories burned includes the calories burned from exercise, as well as the calories you would have burned anyway just by being alive. If you don't convert to net calories burned, you run the risk of counting the same calories twice when you go to figure out your calorie intake.

    Here's a summary: http://www.shapesense.com/fitness-exercise/articles/net-versus-gross-calorie-burn.aspx#acommonmistakerelatedtonetandgrosscalorieburn

    I have a link to a good converter, but I can't seem to get to it from this laptop. I'll post it later tonite/tomorrow.
  • stubbysticks
    stubbysticks Posts: 1,275 Member
    This is important... Unless you're an athlete, heart rate target zones are not relevant to you.
    Pretty much this. It depends on what your goals are. If you're just trying to lose weight then you don't need to get much more complicated than calories burned > calories eaten. But there ARE reasons one would want to pay attention to heart rate & train accordingly.

    I just completed a 12-week heart rate training program that not only got my weight moving downward again, but greatly increased my running pace & improved my cardiovascular fitness. I compared similar runs from before & after the program:
    - BEFORE: I did a 7k race at about a 13:00 min/mi pace & my average HR was 154 bpm, which is Zone 4-5 for me. I pushed it hard the entire race & thought I might die a few times...it was rough.
    - AFTER: About a week ago I did a structured 60-min cardio workout at about the same pace, where I was to stay in Zone 2 for 40 min (128-138), then Zone 4 for the last 20 (>147 bpm). My avg HR for this workout was 134 bpm, even with 20 min over my threshold.

    The biggest difference was perceived level of exertion. The 7k basically sucked. It was hard. My workout last week was awesome. Even the Zone 4 part was reasonably comfortable compared to before.

    On top of that, my VO2 max improved by 45% in just 12 weeks of focused heart rate training (see profile pic...I was down in the green at the start of my program). This will make a difference when I start my half-marathon training later this summer. I'm so pleased with my results that I'm starting another 12-wk round this coming Sunday.

    So again, it depends on your goals. If you have any endurance-sport-related goals, then don't dismiss HR training. But if you're just trying to get a good calorie burn, don't worry too much about it.

    ETA: I wouldn't say the "fat burning zone" thing is a myth. Someone else mentioned that there is a point where you body stops burning fat completely & that's the anaerobic threshold (bottom of Zone 4). For someone like me who still has fat to lose, another benefit of the program I just completed is that my body has been conditioned to actually burn fat when I'm running 13-minute miles. I was burning zero fat at the same pace before.
  • MoveTheMountain
    MoveTheMountain Posts: 764
    Here's the best answer possible:

    1. Your actual max heart rate could be as high as 210 or more and still be "normal". An estimated max heart rate should just be used as a general road map until you actually start exercising and can compare your feelings of perceived exertion with your exercise heart rate.

    2. There is no "fat burning zone". There are intensity levels at which the body burns a higher percentage of fat for fuel (the highest percentage being at rest). However, the percentage of fat burned during a workout or the total amount of fat burned during a workout HAS NO EFFECT ON STORED BODY FAT. In other words there is NO advantage whatsoever in trying to "burn more fat" during a workout.

    2A. The same holds true for "working for a certain duration so that your body switches from burning carbs to burning fat". That indeed might happen, but it is of zero significance when it comes to reducing body fat. Your goals during exercise are to: train for fitness, maximize overall calorie expenditure, and conserve lean muscle mass. That is achieved through a balanced program that includes cardio exercise of different intensities and duration, and resistance training.

    in other words, go for it !! push yourself

    This is the correct answer

    The part about resistance training is key: muscle burns fat, so get more muscle and you'll burn more fat.
  • MoveTheMountain
    MoveTheMountain Posts: 764
    This is important... Unless you're an athlete, heart rate target zones are not relevant to you.
    Pretty much this. It depends on what your goals are. If you're just trying to lose weight then you don't need to get much more complicated than calories burned > calories eaten. But there ARE reasons one would want to pay attention to heart rate & train accordingly.

    I just complete a 12-week heart rate training program that not only got my weight moving downward again, but grately increased my running pace & improved my cardiovascular fitness. I compared similar runs from before & after the program:
    - BEFORE: I did a 7k race at about a 13:00 min/mi pace & my average HR was 154 bpm, which is Zone 4-5 for me. I pushed it hard the entire race & thought I might die a few times...it was rough.
    - AFTER: About a week ago I did a structured 60-min cardio workout at about the same pace, where I was to stay in Zone 2 for 40 min (128-138), then Zone 4 for the last 20 (>147 bpm). My avg HR for this workout was 134 bpm, even with 20 min over my threshold.

    The biggest difference was perceived level of exertion. The 7k basically sucked. It was hard. My workout last week was awesome. Even the Zone 4 part was reasonably comfortable compared to before.

    On top of that, my VO2 max improved by 45% in just 12 weeks of focused heart rate training (see profile pic...I was down in the green at the start of my program). This will make a difference when I start my half-marathon training later this summer. I'm so pleased with my results that I'm starting another 12-wk round this coming Sunday.

    So again, it depends on your goals. If you have any endurance-sport-related goals, then don't dismiss HR training. But if you're just trying to get a good calorie burn, don't worry too much about it.

    That's an amazing increase in your VO max... where does one find a 'heart rate training program"?
  • Sharyn913
    Sharyn913 Posts: 777 Member
    If you exceed your target heart rate you will only burn sugar...not fat.

    Doesn't sugar turn to fat?
  • stubbysticks
    stubbysticks Posts: 1,275 Member
    That's an amazing increase in your VO max... where does one find a 'heart rate training program"?
    Thanks! I was really surprised at the results myself. I purchased a metabolic assessment package at my gym, so I did a resting test to figure out what my intake is supposed to be then an exercise test to establish where my HR zones are. Then the computer cranked out this 12-week program of structured workouts for me to follow, & I followed it. It was one of the best investments ever, & not very spendy, I think I paid about $130 for the initial test. After every 12-week cycle I can get an exercise retest for $55 that tells me what has changed.
  • ironmanwannabe
    ironmanwannabe Posts: 81 Member
    There is no point at which your body stops burning fat completely. It just drops to a lower percentage of fat burned. The boundary where you cross from the aerobic to anarobic is where lactic acid starts to build up faster than your body gets rid of it. That is what causes your muscles to become sore. Also note that even if the percentage of fat burned drops you are burning more calories overall at higher HRs. So trying to keep your HR down is not necessary unless there is a medical reason behind it.
  • DangerMouse7
    DangerMouse7 Posts: 57 Member
    Here's the best answer possible:

    1. Your actual max heart rate could be as high as 210 or more and still be "normal". An estimated max heart rate should just be used as a general road map until you actually start exercising and can compare your feelings of perceived exertion with your exercise heart rate.

    2. There is no "fat burning zone". There are intensity levels at which the body burns a higher percentage of fat for fuel (the highest percentage being at rest). However, the percentage of fat burned during a workout or the total amount of fat burned during a workout HAS NO EFFECT ON STORED BODY FAT. In other words there is NO advantage whatsoever in trying to "burn more fat" during a workout.

    2A. The same holds true for "working for a certain duration so that your body switches from burning carbs to burning fat". That indeed might happen, but it is of zero significance when it comes to reducing body fat. Your goals during exercise are to: train for fitness, maximize overall calorie expenditure, and conserve lean muscle mass. That is achieved through a balanced program that includes cardio exercise of different intensities and duration, and resistance training.

    in other words, go for it !! push yourself

    This IS the correct answer.

    It would be nice to have a voting system on this forum.

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