Running question about carbs

leslisa

First, thank you to those who answered my other running question. Due to your input, I lowered my per mile time and increased duration to the tune of 4 miles in 44 minutes (5.2 mph). I'll stick with it for 2 - 3 weeks and then see if I can increase my pace to 5.5 mph, then 2 - 3 weeks after that to 6 mph. I'll probably hold there for a time, maybe a month or two to see how it's going before doing another increase

Second, what percentage of your daily intake is carbs and why? I was reading about carbs and how some runners eat as much as 70% carb diet the week before a race, but my two books really don't talk much about day to day non-race week carb intake.

Thanks as always!!

L

BrianSharpe

Going up to 70% the week before a race is a carb loading strategy which, unless you're running a marathon or longer, is probably unnecessary.

I tend to aim for 55% to 60% of my calories from carbs and I find with that my stored glycogen is sufficient for me to comfortably run 10 to 12km in a fasted state (I like to run a 5AM).

sonny368

I don't agree in lower the time per mile, I mean if I already run 6 per hour I would start from there and increase every 2 weeks from 2 to 5 more minutes, if your pace is lower but you increase time you don't burn more, I suggest you instead to keep the pace you usually have and if you want to run more you make stops between a run and another, for example you run 15 minutes you recovery for 10 or 5 depends on how much you're trained and then you start running again for the remaining of your training, you can make 1 or more stops, it's up to you, you'll better with the time...
I'm preparing for a 5k, my food beside the fact that I need to drop is pretty rich, I can't stay with no carbs, carbs are the fuel gives you the energy, proteins give you the strenghts, you need both, so carbs for breakfast if you train in the morning and carbs for breakfast either you don't train in the morning, at least twice per day, proteins are absorbed better when are accompanied by a a little carbs, so split them in 2 meals, the quantity I can't say you how much I guess that if you need to drop weight no more than 120 gramms per day, I'm talking only about pasta and bread and cereals, then what can I say I train 2 hours per day so I can eat portions that make me full, I preferred to train more than eat less, but I'm gaining good results in both...on the scale and on the inches, running to my opinion is the best cardio!

leslisa

(I like to run a 5AM).

Bless your heart. I like to sleep at 5am. I'm usually up 6 or 6:30.

SelkieDiver

I've been averaging 55% carbs for the last month while training for my first Triathlon and it seems sufficient overall. I haven't had any loss of energy even on the longer training days. Almost all of the carbs are from fruits & veggies (hard squashes, beans) and complex sources (mana bread, oatmeal,, whole-grain multigrain tortillas). Of course as the long training days get longer I may need to increase the ratio. Will all depend on how I feel.

CarsonRuns

First, thank you to those who answered my other running question. Due to your input, I lowered my per mile time and increased duration to the tune of 4 miles in 44 minutes (5.2 mph). I'll stick with it for 2 - 3 weeks and then see if I can increase my pace to 5.5 mph, then 2 - 3 weeks after that to 6 mph. I'll probably hold there for a time, maybe a month or two to see how it's going before doing another increase

I wouldn't worry about the pace at all. You can't force yourself to be comfortable at a faster pace by running at that pace. You have to build the fitness to sustain that pace and that come from running more miles over time. Just keep increasing the amount of time you are running, paying no attention to your pace. As your mileage increases, your pace will naturally come down as you become more efficient.

CoderGal

Wikipedia Glycogen "hitting the wall" to find out why. Carbs can be converted to glycogen which stores energy and gives it to the body (muscle and liver for example) to use. To me, this is a good thing, not a bad thing. It's something you want around if you want to feed your muscles and other organs with energy. If you run out of glycogen, you'll run out of energy too (see glycogen depletion and endurance exercises on Wikipedia).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycogen#Glycogen_depletion_and_endurance_exercise
http://www.justinowings.com/understanding-bodyweight-and-glycogen-de/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marathon#Glycogen_and_.22the_wall.22
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitting_the_wall

timboom1

Wikipedia Glycogen "hitting the wall" to find out why. Carbs can be converted to glycogen which stores energy and gives it to the body (muscle and liver for example) to use. To me, this is a good thing, not a bad thing. It's something you want around if you want to feed your muscles and other organs with energy. If you run out of glycogen, you'll run out of energy too (see glycogen depletion and endurance exercises on Wikipedia).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycogen#Glycogen_depletion_and_endurance_exercise
http://www.justinowings.com/understanding-bodyweight-and-glycogen-de/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marathon#Glycogen_and_.22the_wall.22
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitting_the_wall

Glycogen is good, if you need more, but too much just gets stored as fat to use later, once the tank is full it is full, it never converts to muscle, you need protien to supply the building blocks for that to happen. You generally have enough stored glycogen to run several miles before you hit "the wall." Unless carbo loading prior to a "long" race to truly top off the glycogen tanks, a good mix of carbs and protein is best.

I try to stick at 50-60% carbs, If I get too carb heavy during training, my training suffers as my muscles take too long to rebuild after a hard run.

BrianSharpe

(I like to run a 5AM).

Bless your heart. I like to sleep at 5am. I'm usually up 6 or 6:30.

I suspect I was a farmer in a previous life! :happy:

It is a great time to run in the summer, sun is coming up by it's usually still nice and cool.

CoderGal

Wikipedia Glycogen "hitting the wall" to find out why. Carbs can be converted to glycogen which stores energy and gives it to the body (muscle and liver for example) to use. To me, this is a good thing, not a bad thing. It's something you want around if you want to feed your muscles and other organs with energy. If you run out of glycogen, you'll run out of energy too (see glycogen depletion and endurance exercises on Wikipedia).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycogen#Glycogen_depletion_and_endurance_exercise
http://www.justinowings.com/understanding-bodyweight-and-glycogen-de/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marathon#Glycogen_and_.22the_wall.22
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitting_the_wall

Glycogen is good, if you need more, but too much just gets stored as fat to use later, once the tank is full it is full, it never converts to muscle, you need protien to supply the building blocks for that to happen. You generally have enough stored glycogen to run several miles before you hit "the wall." Unless carbo loading prior to a "long" race to truly top off the glycogen tanks, a good mix of carbs and protein is best.

I try to stick at 50-60% carbs, If I get too carb heavy during training, my training suffers as my muscles take too long to rebuild after a hard run.

Oh agreed "if you need more". To much of anything isn't good. I thought that was common sense :P With that being said I'm not in biology so I'm not sure what exactly it gets stored as if its not used...I supposed most things get stored as fat if it's not used, even if you ate 3000 calories in protein some of it would turn to fat right?

RuthieCass

If you're running 4 miles a few times per week, you don't need to worry about "carbo-loading." Actually, if you're dieting and your main form of exercise is running, it's probably more important to eat enough protein to prevent muscle loss. I personally find 200 g of carbs per day more than enough, and I run 4-5 miles 3 times per week.

timboom1

Wikipedia Glycogen "hitting the wall" to find out why. Carbs can be converted to glycogen which stores energy and gives it to the body (muscle and liver for example) to use. To me, this is a good thing, not a bad thing. It's something you want around if you want to feed your muscles and other organs with energy. If you run out of glycogen, you'll run out of energy too (see glycogen depletion and endurance exercises on Wikipedia).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycogen#Glycogen_depletion_and_endurance_exercise
http://www.justinowings.com/understanding-bodyweight-and-glycogen-de/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marathon#Glycogen_and_.22the_wall.22
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitting_the_wall

Glycogen is good, if you need more, but too much just gets stored as fat to use later, once the tank is full it is full, it never converts to muscle, you need protien to supply the building blocks for that to happen. You generally have enough stored glycogen to run several miles before you hit "the wall." Unless carbo loading prior to a "long" race to truly top off the glycogen tanks, a good mix of carbs and protein is best.

I try to stick at 50-60% carbs, If I get too carb heavy during training, my training suffers as my muscles take too long to rebuild after a hard run.

Oh agreed "if you need more". To much of anything isn't good. I thought that was common sense :P With that being said I'm not in biology so I'm not sure what exactly it gets stored as if its not used...I supposed most things get stored as fat if it's not used, even if you ate 3000 calories in protein some of it would turn to fat right?

Of course, if you eat more than you burn, you body will store the excess as fat. The point I am making is that hitting the wall is hard to do if you are not running a marathon (and even then, it takes some work to truly deplete your glycogen.) It is important to be sure to get a good balance of protien and carbs to get the best benefit of both. If the ratio of carbs to protien is too far in favor of carbs during trianing, then your body has plenty of sugars for glycogen, but potentially not enough protien for muscle repair. Muscle repair uses both carbs and protien, but if the protien is limited then the excess carbs are stored as fat while your repair processes wait for more protien. This can delay recovery after a hard workout.

The other difference is that your body is very efficient at turning excess carbs to fat, turning excess protien into fat is a much more drawn out process.

KBGirts

(I like to run a 5AM).

Bless your heart. I like to sleep at 5am. I'm usually up 6 or 6:30.

I suspect I was a farmer in a previous life! :happy:

It is a great time to run in the summer, sun is coming up by it's usually still nice and cool.

The sun comes up at 5:00???? Man, I'm glad I don't live where you live.

CoderGal

Wikipedia Glycogen "hitting the wall" to find out why. Carbs can be converted to glycogen which stores energy and gives it to the body (muscle and liver for example) to use. To me, this is a good thing, not a bad thing. It's something you want around if you want to feed your muscles and other organs with energy. If you run out of glycogen, you'll run out of energy too (see glycogen depletion and endurance exercises on Wikipedia).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycogen#Glycogen_depletion_and_endurance_exercise
http://www.justinowings.com/understanding-bodyweight-and-glycogen-de/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marathon#Glycogen_and_.22the_wall.22
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitting_the_wall

Glycogen is good, if you need more, but too much just gets stored as fat to use later, once the tank is full it is full, it never converts to muscle, you need protien to supply the building blocks for that to happen. You generally have enough stored glycogen to run several miles before you hit "the wall." Unless carbo loading prior to a "long" race to truly top off the glycogen tanks, a good mix of carbs and protein is best.

I try to stick at 50-60% carbs, If I get too carb heavy during training, my training suffers as my muscles take too long to rebuild after a hard run.

Oh agreed "if you need more". To much of anything isn't good. I thought that was common sense :P With that being said I'm not in biology so I'm not sure what exactly it gets stored as if its not used...I supposed most things get stored as fat if it's not used, even if you ate 3000 calories in protein some of it would turn to fat right?

Of course, if you eat more than you burn, you body will store the excess as fat. The point I am making is that hitting the wall is hard to do if you are not running a marathon (and even then, it takes some work to truly deplete your glycogen.) It is important to be sure to get a good balance of protien and carbs to get the best benefit of both. If the ratio of carbs to protien is too far in favor of carbs during trianing, then your body has plenty of sugars for glycogen, but potentially not enough protien for muscle repair. Muscle repair uses both carbs and protien, but if the protien is limited then the excess carbs are stored as fat while your repair processes wait for more protien. This can delay recovery after a hard workout.

The other difference is that your body is very efficient at turning excess carbs to fat, turning excess protien into fat is a much more drawn out process.

Ahhh sorry I totally missed the OP saying 'non race' time. Thanks for calling me out...I just read a excellent google scholar article on carb loading let me find it....

I was looking through it earlier and it was talking about what happens to glycogen on non active days. Might be worth the read.

"Finally, another factor that may have contributed to the rapid attainment of supramaximal glycogen levels is the avoidance of exercise on the day of carbohydrate loading"
http://www.edulife.com.br/dados\Artigos\Nutricao\Nutricao Esportiva e Suplementacao\CHO loading.pdf

I didn't read and correct me if I'm wrong but looking at the graphics what I pick out is that there's an abnormal amount of glycogen stored in the muscles...that could be good if you want that energy around for running in the near future. If the near future is you typing on a computer, that's just water weight, right? So I'd think lowering carbs would be good for most non active days.

MoreBean13

I hover around 40% carbs, sometimes up to 45...I'm lower than most because of hypothyroid...but I manage ~10 mile runs a couple times a week without issues. I don't run fasted.

HMVOL7409

I'm currently at a 40/30/30 ratio and I'm averaging 5 miles 3x/wk. I'll more than likely make a slight increase in a few weeks when I start my 1/2 program.

pkfrankel

(I like to run a 5AM).

Bless your heart. I like to sleep at 5am. I'm usually up 6 or 6:30.

I suspect I was a farmer in a previous life! :happy:

It is a great time to run in the summer, sun is coming up by it's usually still nice and cool.


I also rise at dawn to run or ride. Mostly because it's cooler. Secondly there is little traffic that early so riding is very easy.

leslisa

First, thank you all!! :flowerforyou: I think I'll bump up my carbs a bit to cover my activities.

Perhaps I did not explain well my cardio.
S-S: 2 miles walk/trot with dog
M, W, F: 4-5 miles on a treadmill at lunch
Tu, Th: 4-5 miles on elliptical
Saturday: Biking 12 - 20 miles or running on the beach or whatever I want for about an hour. (love Saturdays)
Total: 14 miles walking. 12 - 15 miles running. 8 - 10 miles elliptical. Plus Saturday cardio.

Goals:
Goal 1: 6 miles/60 min 3 times a week outside. 2 miles on "off days".
Why outside? I live on the coast and the wind here literally robs the breath some days it is so strong. I always run against the wind at start and with the wind going home. There are days I can run 3 - 4 miles outside, others I run as little as 1.5 :blushing: (my legs feel like jelly and I have to turn my head or cover nose/mouth to get a breath).

Ultimate Goal: 6 miles/48 min, 3 times a week outside. 2 miles on "off days".
I'll never probably be a long distance runner, but hey, maybe this will change later?