Next running goal?? Medal in a 5k or move up to 10k

DG_Allen

Hey Runners,

Looking for some opinions here. I've been running for about 10 months and I still consider myself a novice.

I've now run three 5ks and with a little more speed training I could probably medal in some of the smaller races in my 40 to 44 age group. That would be pretty cool right?? I'd like to run a sub 20 minute 5k some day.

But, I'm also thinking about a marathon next year. If I want to do that, maybe my next goal should be to move up to the 10k and then look at a half marathon.

Are speed and endurance incompatible??

What do you guys think??

Thanks

CarsonRuns

You get faster by running more miles over time. So, yes. A faster 5K and a longer race are compatible. In order to be able to handle speed work, you need to have the appropriate aerobic base to build on. Higher mileage is how that is attained.

You say you want to run sub 20. What is your current 5K PR?

DG_Allen

Thanks Carson.

My offical PR is 27. I ran a 2.6 mile (the course was messed up) in 21 but I was saving myself for a sprint at the end which never happened. I can run sub 8 minute miles on my home course which is pretty hilly and i'm just beyond a "conversational" pace.

It sounds like continuing to build my endurance should be the ongoing goal and then I can speed traing and haul *kitten* in a 5k now and then for the fun and challenge of it.

99clmsntgr

Yep, my experience agrees with Carson. My 5K times dropped dramatically once I started half-marathon training last year (I throw in the occassional local 5K mostly for fun, but also because I can get them cheap or free through my work). The 11-12 mile LSD on the weekend helped build up the stamina needed for speedy 5K sprints. In that time my 5K time dropped from 33 minutes-ish to my recent PR of 21:52 (so close to that 7-minute mile mark! I WANTS IT!), so I would think it's possible for you to get your sub-20 time.

CarsonRuns

Sub 20 takes a lot of mileage and a lot of time, especially for us 40 somethings. I saw rapid improvement down to about 24 minutes. Then, the gains come a lot slower. It took me about 15 months to go from <24 to <22. It took a full year to go from <22 to <21. Then, another 18 months to go from <21 to <20. Those last 2.5 to 3 years consisted of a ton of mileage. I ran 1800+ miles in 2009, 2200+ in 2010 and and was 30 miles short of 2800 for 2011. I trained for a completed 2 marathons during that time period, improving my time by 12 minutes on the second one and I never did any really focused 5K training at all.

DG_Allen

Wow. I didn't realize getting sub 20 would take that much work.

That's a lot of running Carson, that qualifies for an awesome! When you ran the 5ks were you going all out and trying to PR each time??

It sounds like I'm on the right path and that the distance training will dovetail nicely with speed increases.

Thanks for the input guys!

edit:
PS one more question. Do you bother with 10ks?? The seem to be pretty rare these days anyway.

arc918

I nosed under 20 a few years ago. The amount of time it will take is really a function of your genetics and the work you put in. Some people will never get there, other will get down to 18:00.

My best 5K times came off of marathon training.

FWIW - I rarely race 5Ks because I find it such a painful distance (when raced correctly). Also, I would rather spend my racing $ and time on half marathons (my favorite distance) or marathons.

As far a age group hardware goes, I view it as icing on the cake. I'm always happy to place in my AG, but I'm fully aware it is just a function of the fast guys racing elsewhere.

DG_Allen

Thanks for the input. What makes the 5k painful? I've heard that a few times.

As far a age group hardware goes, I view it as icing on the cake. I'm always happy to place in my AG, but I'm fully aware it is just a function of the fast guys racing elsewhere.

This is so true! :laugh:

scottb81

Thanks for the input. What makes the 5k painful? I've heard that a few times.

If you are in the shape to race it well you are above your anaerobic threshold the entire distance causing increasing amounts of lactic acid to build in your muscles until you pass the finish line.

stmrunner

Thanks for the input. What makes the 5k painful? I've heard that a few times.

You are running at 95% of of your maximum heart rate. No conversation there. Just digging deep.

I'm 35 and am running 19-19:30 5K (6-6:15) pace. No speed demon, but working hard. A few 10ks and a Half under my belt. I highly recommend getting a Garmin forerunner. Best 150 bucks spent. Tracks your HR, distance, pace, laps, lap pace. Tons of workouts you can program and really user friendly. Not to mention the great data it spits out on connect.Garmin.com.

Typical week. Mon-5 miles Tues-2 Wed-5 miles Tempo or mile repeats-Thurs-2 or off Fri-5 miles Sat or Sun LSD 10-12 25-35 total depending on what I'm getting ready for. Local 5K or half. Adjust mileage and speedwork.

Good Luck!

Giraffe33991

Hey Runners,

Looking for some opinions here. I've been running for about 10 months and I still consider myself a novice.

I've now run three 5ks and with a little more speed training I could probably medal in some of the smaller races in my 40 to 44 age group. That would be pretty cool right?? I'd like to run a sub 20 minute 5k some day.

But, I'm also thinking about a marathon next year. If I want to do that, maybe my next goal should be to move up to the 10k and then look at a half marathon.

Are speed and endurance incompatible??

What do you guys think??

Thanks

Add distance and speed will naturally come to the shorter distances. I've been doing this at the advice of my runner boyfriend and it works!!! Maybe you can also add interval training to your weekly routine too!

Good luck! I'm shooting for similar goals this year! :-)

stmrunner

But to answer your original question. Medal now for the confidence booster, then tackle the 10K and then go for the half!

k7n2w3

I just went through this dilemma actually! I have run a couple of half marathons and some other length races and I wanted to start training for a 5k record. After talking with some fellow runners, we discussed how speed still comes into longer distance races. I didn't want to give up my endurance for long runs or speed if i wanted to go for a record. Well for longer runs I would usually do the 10+ miles on Sunday and speed intervals are usually once a week, no more than twice so going on that information, doing both fits perfect :-) If you run.. say 5 days a week... 1 day is long distance (sunday for me) w next day off for recovery and 1 day (tuesday or thursday for me) is speed training and you get the next day off or take it easy, the other days you can work on endurance.
I hope that helps :-)
Lots of luck!!

dsjohndrow

I was thinking the same. I took third in my age group at one race, and 4, 5, and 6 at the other 3 races. I am already faster than that. I also ran 10K a few weeks ago in under an hour.

What I have decided to do is stick with the shorter races for now, and run the 10Ks for next season. I am going to be out a few weeks with shoulder surgery and will probably not be ready.

kmoore02

I was reading cross training with hill sprints will improve speed. Is there any truth in that???

DG_Allen

Thanks for the input. What makes the 5k painful? I've heard that a few times.

If you are in the shape to race it well you are above your anaerobic threshold the entire distance causing increasing amounts of lactic acid to build in your muscles until you pass the finish line.

Ah. Lactic acid = pain. I get it.

bussaca

This is a great topic... I am in the process of trying to get back in shape, but it has been a slow go so far

scottb81

The amount of running you do to train for a 5 or 10K should be similar. So training for a 5k specifically now will also prepare you for a 10K endurance wise. Both should include a long run each week of 90+ minutes.

The only real difference in training should be in the structure and composition of the speedwork. Both can include all elements of speed training but the 5K might lean more heavily on track repeats and intervals and the 10K more heavily on tempo running.

arc918

I always say a well raced 5K is wall to wall pain. 20 minutes at 95+% of your max heart race = OUCH!

From a racing standpoint, it is very unforgiving. There is almost no margin for error. Very hard to recover from a bad split in such a short distance.

DG_Allen

The amount of running you do to train for a 5 or 10K should be similar. So training for a 5k specifically now will also prepare you for a 10K endurance wise. Both should include a long run each week of 90+ minutes.

The only real difference in training should be in the structure and composition of the speedwork. Both can include all elements of speed training but the 5K might lean more heavily on track repeats and intervals and the 10K more heavily on tempo running.

Thanks Scott.

I've never done a run of 90+ minutes duration. Do I just go at my usualy easy pace (about 10 min/mile) until I can't go anymore and then walk/run the rest of the time?? Or, should I keep my pace and add to my current duration (40 minutes) 5 or 10 minutes a week and build up?

Thanks everyone else too for all the great info!

brandyk77

piping in to concur on the whole "if it doesn't hurt, you aren't running it right" statement

5ks are hard and have little room for error.

scottb81

The amount of running you do to train for a 5 or 10K should be similar. So training for a 5k specifically now will also prepare you for a 10K endurance wise. Both should include a long run each week of 90+ minutes.

The only real difference in training should be in the structure and composition of the speedwork. Both can include all elements of speed training but the 5K might lean more heavily on track repeats and intervals and the 10K more heavily on tempo running.

Thanks Scott.

I've never done a run of 90+ minutes duration. Do I just go at my usualy easy pace (about 10 min/mile) until I can't go anymore and then walk/run the rest of the time?? Or, should I keep my pace and add to my current duration (40 minutes) 5 or 10 minutes a week and build up?

Thanks everyone else too for all the great info!

Better to build up to it gradually. Add a mile or so each week to the long run and then every third week drop back several miles to ensure recovery. The next week add a mile or so to your longest run and continue. You should be up to 90 min within around two months that way and will enjoy the journey a whole lot more than going out and doubling your longest run. It's a lot safer injury wise also.

Your aerobic capacity is the number 1 determinant in how high you can build your fitness and how well you can race. A weekly longer run as well as consistent running day to day and week to week will get you there over time. Speed training then builds on top of whatever aerobic capacity you have built.

You can continue to improve aerobic capacity for anywhere between 6 to 10 years with high volume progressive running. You will max out improvements with speed training in a couple of months until you build the base aerobic capacity higher.

CarsonRuns

Wow. I didn't realize getting sub 20 would take that much work.

That's a lot of running Carson, that qualifies for an awesome! When you ran the 5ks were you going all out and trying to PR each time??

It sounds like I'm on the right path and that the distance training will dovetail nicely with speed increases.

Thanks for the input guys!

edit:
PS one more question. Do you bother with 10ks?? The seem to be pretty rare these days anyway.

Yeah, every race I run, I run it as fast as I can. Depending on the course and the weather, and if I am "om" that day, it may or may not be a PR.

I have only run one 10K. There just aren't that many around.

DG_Allen

Thanks again to everyone who replied. This was very helpful.

I'm planning to do a longer run on Saturday and I'm going sign up for the 5k on July 21 and shot for a PR and see if I can place. It's a small race, so that makes it easier.