Eating Below Your BMR..

psuLemon

I would love to know why my body defies science. After plateauing endlessly, I did a 15% cut of my TDEE (I have a BMF) and I gained 11 pounds in under 7 weeks. I know my numbers as much as anyone could. My BMR I got from expensive metabolic testing, and I ate at my cut via my BMF and Scooby website...and yet I did nothing but gain. So now I'm back down to eating 1800-2000 a day. A lot of food, but still giving me 1000+ deficits. I feel like I can't win either way. It's so confusing.

You know, if I could give you a hug I would. I feel for you. But one thing to keep in mind is that body media's are just algorithms. They can be off if you have a hormone issue, which is always possible or if you have an intolerance to a type of food without know it.

But also, being a fitness instructor is going to be tough as your body will adapt to the high amounts of exercise and will work more efficiently. It's going to make it more effective at doing this task. And in all reality, I am perplexed about your situation.

TAsunder

I started using my fitness pal a few months ago. Since then I've lost an additional 20 lbs so I thought I'd go online to try to figure out roughly how to adjust my caloric intake. A few months / 20 lb ago a nutritionist told me I should eat around 2200-2300 calories in order to see weight loss based on my activity (I work out 6-8 times per week for an hour doing some boot camp, body-based weights, martial arts, yoga, and biking).

According to BMR and related formulas I would maintain my current weight eating 2800 calories on a typical week or a bit over 2200 if completely sedentary. That seems WAYYY too high. Last week I set 2000 as my target. I was well under for the week but it just felt like too drastic of a cut from 2200. Now I'm not sure what to do. Based on BMR I ate below BMR on about half of the days last week with a goal of 2000.

Is it worthwhile to try to measure a true BMR to better understand where I need to be in terms of calories? Based on the article linked in the first post here I'm inclined to keep my calories higher to prevent the backslide associated with calorie deficits. So confused...

rose313

My reason for recommending people do not eat below their BMR is personal. I ate 200 calories below my BMR for nine months thinking it was the right thing to do and would make me lose a pound a week. I didn't lose a single pound. Just switching to eating AT my BMR has helped me lose 5 pounds. I don't want other people to have to be frustrated for so long like I was.

psuLemon

I started using my fitness pal a few months ago. Since then I've lost an additional 20 lbs so I thought I'd go online to try to figure out roughly how to adjust my caloric intake. A few months / 20 lb ago a nutritionist told me I should eat around 2200-2300 calories in order to see weight loss based on my activity (I work out 6-8 times per week for an hour doing some boot camp, body-based weights, martial arts, yoga, and biking).

According to BMR and related formulas I would maintain my current weight eating 2800 calories on a typical week or a bit over 2200 if completely sedentary. That seems WAYYY too high. Last week I set 2000 as my target. I was well under for the week but it just felt like too drastic of a cut from 2200. Now I'm not sure what to do. Based on BMR I ate below BMR on about half of the days last week with a goal of 2000.

Is it worthwhile to try to measure a true BMR to better understand where I need to be in terms of calories? Based on the article linked in the first post here I'm inclined to keep my calories higher to prevent the backslide associated with calorie deficits. So confused...

You can get your RMR tested, but you still have to estimate your TDEE. The bigger question is, why do you think you can't have a TDEE near 2800 calories? Many women have high maintenance calories like that since they are so active. In fact, I know many women who are 5'1, 119 lbs and eating 2100 calories to lose weight while doing programs like insanity. They are all over the beachbody forums. I burn over 3200 calories a day and I do P90X. So if you are having some crazy workouts then its completely possible. Also why would you go to a nutritionist and not take their advice?

psuLemon

My reason for recommending people do not eat below their BMR is personal. I ate 200 calories below my BMR for nine months thinking it was the right thing to do and would make me lose a pound a week. I didn't lose a single pound. Just switching to eating AT my BMR has helped me lose 5 pounds. I don't want other people to have to be frustrated for so long like I was.

It's cool to suggest eating at your BMR based on your experience, I just have issue with people consistently passing it off as fact.

Sheila_Ann

bumping to read up on it later...

mommyweighless

I just spoke to a friend of mine that is a personal trainer for Brick City and he told me that eating less than BMR is fine as long as you are eating quality foods. I have been stressing numbers and adding and subtracting and freaking out for no reason. So i lowered my cals from 1800 to 1200 and I am reassuring myself I am not going to starve!

Melanie_Robinson

bumping for later

cordianet

Well, now, I don't know if that's fair. Everyone 'plateaus' (or at least in their mind they are). There are all kinds of reasons. Usually it's just because weight loss is rarely linear and scales suck as measuring devices.

I'll agree there are plenty of reasons for a plateau, but I want to suggest that probably one of the most important reasons is that people fail to adjust their caloric intake DOWN as they lose. When you eat at a deficit, you WILL shed pounds, but most people fail to understand that as the weight goes down, so does your BMR, and thus TDEE. I'm fine with the concept of eating .80 of TDEE if that's what you feel is healthy and safe, but you'd better be adjusting that number periodically.

The other thing folks often fail to understand is that exercise will also become easier over time, so even if you didn't lose an ounce, running 1 mile today may burn 100 calories, but next week that same mile may only burn 95 calories as your body adapts. Compound that effect with the fact that the exercise will be easier as you lose weight and you have a double negative whammy on calories consumed by exercise. Simply put, you need to be constantly working harder to burn the same number of calories.

Many people unfortunately never change their caloric intake as they lose and/or never increase their exercise. When this happens, eventually you get to a point where stasis is reached and you experience the dreaded plateau.

2BeHealthy4Life

MFP pal Anewlucia started the group EAT MORE TO WEIGH LESS ....I copied and pasted this information below from one of her threads that may helpful.

You can get your bmr and tdee number from here :http://www.scoobyworkshop.com/calculators

What is BMR? Your basal metabolic rate, or BMR, is the minimum calorific requirement needed to sustain life in a resting individual. It can be looked at as being the amount of energy (measured in calories) expended by the body to remain in bed all day!

What is TDEE? TDEE is the common abbreviation for Total Daily Energy Expenditure which is a metric to calculate the amount of calories your body needs to function in a day. This is quite similar to BMR; in fact, you need your BMR to calculate your TDEE; but your TDEE accounts for your average daily activity as well to give a figure truer to your specific situation. Basically, the TDEE calculation relies on categorizing your daily activity into one of the metrics' predetermined groupings:

Sedentary - desk job and little to no exercise Lightly Active - light exercise/sports 1-3 days/wk Moderately Active - moderate exercise/sports 3-5 days/wk (****SIDE NOTE - even if you have a desk job most people fit right here when you workout 3-5 days a week) Very Active - hard exercise/sports 6-7 days/wk Extremely Active - hard daily exercise/sports & physical job or training Once you have determined where you fit in on the TDEE activity rate scale, this activity rate is used to weight your BMR giving you a more accurate assessment of how many calories you really need throughout the course of the day.

Here is a link to a site that you plug in your information and it will provide your BMR and TDEE along with your Cut value (again, if you workout 3-5 times a week select "Moderate" and the "Select Your Goal" option you will select is "Lose Fat - 15% caloric reduction.



So now, you should have your BMR, TDEE, and Cut Value (TDEE - 15%)

Here is a video that talks about this in great detail that hopefully will clear up any questions you may have: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYi9xjIRvbY&feature=g-all-u

If TDEE is figured out correctly, then exercise cals don't *have* to be eaten back because, technically, TDEE figures them in. The underlying factor here, is that most people underestimate their activity levels, (for fear of being told to eat "too much") and then proceed to under eat. If a person is burning 1000 cals/day in exercise, then that should be figured into their TDEE, meaning their TDEE should be AT LEAST 1000 cals more than their BMR. If this is not the case then they are undercutting themselves on the cals. So a person w/a BMR of 1300, that puts up 1000 cal burns should have come up w/a TDEE calculation of 2400 or more. So any situation where a person is not getting those calculations, they should be eating back some of those exercise cals.

So if you come up w/BMR=1300, TDEE=1800, you need to either A)eat back some cals, or recalculate your TDEE to include the *actual* burns that you're getting.

So to cut using *true* TDEE figures, you'd just eat a flat TDEE (-15%), as long as TDEE is correct. It should be fine. But if you are using MFP's calculations, or are not getting a TDEE that includes the amount you burn each day *plus* BMR, you need to eat back some exercise cals.

psuLemon

I just spoke to a friend of mine that is a personal trainer for Brick City and he told me that eating less than BMR is fine as long as you are eating quality foods. I have been stressing numbers and adding and subtracting and freaking out for no reason. So i lowered my cals from 1800 to 1200 and I am reassuring myself I am not going to starve!

Eating 1200 for an extended period of time will just increase the chance of going catabolic. The bigger question is why would you drop your calories that much?

psuLemon

Well, now, I don't know if that's fair. Everyone 'plateaus' (or at least in their mind they are). There are all kinds of reasons. Usually it's just because weight loss is rarely linear and scales suck as measuring devices.

I'll agree there are plenty of reasons for a plateau, but I want to suggest that probably one of the most important reasons is that people fail to adjust their caloric intake DOWN as they lose. When you eat at a deficit, you WILL shed pounds, but most people fail to understand that as the weight goes down, so does your BMR, and thus TDEE. I'm fine with the concept of eating .80 of TDEE if that's what you feel is healthy and safe, but you'd better be adjusting that number periodically.

The other thing folks often fail to understand is that exercise will also become easier over time, so even if you didn't lose an ounce, running 1 mile today may burn 100 calories, but next week that same mile may only burn 95 calories as your body adapts. Compound that effect with the fact that the exercise will be easier as you lose weight and you have a double negative whammy on calories consumed by exercise. Simply put, you need to be constantly working harder to burn the same number of calories.

Many people unfortunately never change their caloric intake as they lose and/or never increase their exercise. When this happens, eventually you get to a point where stasis is reached and you experience the dreaded plateau.

You make some good points but this only works if people follow the same method throughout their weightloss. Also there are some circumstances where your. bmr doesnt change but your tdee does. When you cut body fat in conjuction to weight. Also weight training and adequate protein can prevent a metabolic slow down. But generally 10% of weight loss is muscle. I can note on my case, my estimated bmr hasnt based on weight and body fat


http://www.metaboliceffect.com/topic/38-nutrition-lifestyle.aspx

TAsunder

I started using my fitness pal a few months ago. Since then I've lost an additional 20 lbs so I thought I'd go online to try to figure out roughly how to adjust my caloric intake. A few months / 20 lb ago a nutritionist told me I should eat around 2200-2300 calories in order to see weight loss based on my activity (I work out 6-8 times per week for an hour doing some boot camp, body-based weights, martial arts, yoga, and biking).

According to BMR and related formulas I would maintain my current weight eating 2800 calories on a typical week or a bit over 2200 if completely sedentary. That seems WAYYY too high. Last week I set 2000 as my target. I was well under for the week but it just felt like too drastic of a cut from 2200. Now I'm not sure what to do. Based on BMR I ate below BMR on about half of the days last week with a goal of 2000.

Is it worthwhile to try to measure a true BMR to better understand where I need to be in terms of calories? Based on the article linked in the first post here I'm inclined to keep my calories higher to prevent the backslide associated with calorie deficits. So confused...

You can get your RMR tested, but you still have to estimate your TDEE. The bigger question is, why do you think you can't have a TDEE near 2800 calories? Many women have high maintenance calories like that since they are so active. In fact, I know many women who are 5'1, 119 lbs and eating 2100 calories to lose weight while doing programs like insanity. They are all over the beachbody forums. I burn over 3200 calories a day and I do P90X. So if you are having some crazy workouts then its completely possible. Also why would you go to a nutritionist and not take their advice?

I didn't ignore their advice; I followed it for a few months. I figured after 20 lbs additional weight loss their number needed to be adjusted. It takes a few months to get an appointment so I figured I should try to figure it out on my own. Then I started looking at BMR and other tools and became confused as to how much to adjust.

2800 seems high to me because my nutritionist estimated that I would maintain my weight if I ate 2500 calories given my lifestyle. If I've lost 20lbs then it seems dubious that I now could eat 2800 and maintain -- it should be lower. Going off an approximation of BMR now then compared to what the nutritionist told me, it seems like I should set my goal to 2000 calories consumed but as I mentioned that did not "feel right" either. Maybe I need that appointment after all

psuLemon

I started using my fitness pal a few months ago. Since then I've lost an additional 20 lbs so I thought I'd go online to try to figure out roughly how to adjust my caloric intake. A few months / 20 lb ago a nutritionist told me I should eat around 2200-2300 calories in order to see weight loss based on my activity (I work out 6-8 times per week for an hour doing some boot camp, body-based weights, martial arts, yoga, and biking).

According to BMR and related formulas I would maintain my current weight eating 2800 calories on a typical week or a bit over 2200 if completely sedentary. That seems WAYYY too high. Last week I set 2000 as my target. I was well under for the week but it just felt like too drastic of a cut from 2200. Now I'm not sure what to do. Based on BMR I ate below BMR on about half of the days last week with a goal of 2000.

Is it worthwhile to try to measure a true BMR to better understand where I need to be in terms of calories? Based on the article linked in the first post here I'm inclined to keep my calories higher to prevent the backslide associated with calorie deficits. So confused...

You can get your RMR tested, but you still have to estimate your TDEE. The bigger question is, why do you think you can't have a TDEE near 2800 calories? Many women have high maintenance calories like that since they are so active. In fact, I know many women who are 5'1, 119 lbs and eating 2100 calories to lose weight while doing programs like insanity. They are all over the beachbody forums. I burn over 3200 calories a day and I do P90X. So if you are having some crazy workouts then its completely possible. Also why would you go to a nutritionist and not take their advice?

I didn't ignore their advice; I followed it for a few months. I figured after 20 lbs additional weight loss their number needed to be adjusted. It takes a few months to get an appointment so I figured I should try to figure it out on my own. Then I started looking at BMR and other tools and became confused as to how much to adjust.

2800 seems high to me because my nutritionist estimated that I would maintain my weight if I ate 2500 calories given my lifestyle. If I've lost 20lbs then it seems dubious that I now could eat 2800 and maintain -- it should be lower. Going off an approximation of BMR now then compared to what the nutritionist told me, it seems like I should set my goal to 2000 calories consumed but as I mentioned that did not "feel right" either. Maybe I need that appointment after all

It really depends on what you do for a living and how much you exercise. For example, I am 5'11, 200 lbs, 29 year old and 12% body fat. I do P90X and work behind a desk. I eat 2600 calories to cut fat and lose about 1 lb per week. When I was eating 1800 calories, after 90 days of P90X, I didn't lose any weight, body fat or inches. When I increased to 2600, I lost 11 lbs, 6" and 3% body fat.

mommyweighless

I just spoke to a friend of mine that is a personal trainer for Brick City and he told me that eating less than BMR is fine as long as you are eating quality foods. I have been stressing numbers and adding and subtracting and freaking out for no reason. So i lowered my cals from 1800 to 1200 and I am reassuring myself I am not going to starve!

Eating 1200 for an extended period of time will just increase the chance of going catabolic. The bigger question is why would you drop your calories that much?

He said not to go lower than twelve but east between 13-1500 I was eating around 1800 and my weight was maintaining. I want wasnt seeing any loss.

psuLemon

I just spoke to a friend of mine that is a personal trainer for Brick City and he told me that eating less than BMR is fine as long as you are eating quality foods. I have been stressing numbers and adding and subtracting and freaking out for no reason. So i lowered my cals from 1800 to 1200 and I am reassuring myself I am not going to starve!

Eating 1200 for an extended period of time will just increase the chance of going catabolic. The bigger question is why would you drop your calories that much?

He said not to go lower than twelve but east between 13-1500 I was eating around 1800 and my weight was maintaining. I want wasnt seeing any loss.

That makes greater sense. I was thinking you were do a dramatic drop.

shae68143

bump

neverstray

One thing I notice is that a lot of people seem to think these calculations are accurate. They are not. They are just websites that are estimating based on information you provide. Your TDEE could be off by as much as 500 calories, give or take, or more depending on other issues that you may not be aware of. So, my recommendation to people as a total novice and having zero expertise or knowledge about this other than reading a lot, is to find your TDEE, cut it 15 or 20%, then wait 6 weeks and see if it's working. If your not losing weight or body fat, drop 100 calories. Continue for 6 weeks, if no results, drop 100 calories, and keep doing this. Eventually, you'll find the sweet spot where you see results. You have to. If you do this for months and months and no weight or fat loss, please see your doctor because something is wrong.

Then, with every 10 lbs, recalculate all over again.

DanaDark

One thing I notice is that a lot of people seem to think these calculations are accurate. They are not. They are just websites that are estimating based on information you provide. Your TDEE could be off by as much as 500 calories, give or take, or more depending on other issues that you may not be aware of. So, my recommendation to people as a total novice and having zero expertise or knowledge about this other than reading a lot, is to find your TDEE, cut it 15 or 20%, then wait 6 weeks and see if it's working. If your not losing weight or body fat, drop 100 calories. Continue for 6 weeks, if no results, drop 100 calories, and keep doing this. Eventually, you'll find the sweet spot where you see results. You have to. If you do this for months and months and no weight or fat loss, please see your doctor because something is wrong.

Then, with every 10 lbs, recalculate all over again.

This is good advice.

Personally, I know what Starvation Mode is (scientifically, which isn't anything anyone here need to be worried about). And also know the issues of eating below your BMR.

Can you eat below your BMR and lose weight? Yes, if you know how to do so properly. It is not exactly about ENERGY supplied, it is about NUTRITION. Eating below your BMR with inadequate nutrition is typically unhealthy and can lead to significant health problems. If you are cool with completely micro managing EVERYTHING you eat, and ensure you got the proper nutrition (including protein), then you can do it. BUT... this does not really teach you "healthy" eating, and once you deviate from it after achieving your goals, are just as likely to put the weight on as any other crash and burn diet.

Your body does have extra store of calories to use for energy, it does not have much in the way of stored vitamins, minerals, and proteins.

I personally never advise people to eat under their BMR simply because I wish people to understand they can still eat normally, healthy, and feel full while losing weight, and given the current state of vitamins (completely unregulated, could be an arsenic pill and the law couldn't do crap about it) I do not feel comfortable suggesting them.

mcarter99

One thing I notice is that a lot of people seem to think these calculations are accurate. They are not. They are just websites that are estimating based on information you provide. Your TDEE could be off by as much as 500 calories, give or take, or more depending on other issues that you may not be aware of. So, my recommendation to people as a total novice and having zero expertise or knowledge about this other than reading a lot, is to find your TDEE, cut it 15 or 20%, then wait 6 weeks and see if it's working. If your not losing weight or body fat, drop 100 calories. Continue for 6 weeks, if no results, drop 100 calories, and keep doing this. Eventually, you'll find the sweet spot where you see results. You have to. If you do this for months and months and no weight or fat loss, please see your doctor because something is wrong.

Then, with every 10 lbs, recalculate all over again.

This is good advice.

Personally, I know what Starvation Mode is (scientifically, which isn't anything anyone here need to be worried about). And also know the issues of eating below your BMR.

Can you eat below your BMR and lose weight? Yes, if you know how to do so properly. It is not exactly about ENERGY supplied, it is about NUTRITION. Eating below your BMR with inadequate nutrition is typically unhealthy and can lead to significant health problems. If you are cool with completely micro managing EVERYTHING you eat, and ensure you got the proper nutrition (including protein), then you can do it. BUT... this does not really teach you "healthy" eating, and once you deviate from it after achieving your goals, are just as likely to put the weight on as any other crash and burn diet.

Your body does have extra store of calories to use for energy, it does not have much in the way of stored vitamins, minerals, and proteins.

I personally never advise people to eat under their BMR simply because I wish people to understand they can still eat normally, healthy, and feel full while losing weight, and given the current state of vitamins (completely unregulated, could be an arsenic pill and the law couldn't do crap about it) I do not feel comfortable suggesting them.

The American College of Sports Medicine recommends most people eat .8 gram protein for each 1kg of body weight, or 10-15% of your diet as protein. For a 150 lb. person that would be around 55g protein per day, which is around 220 calories. That's pretty easy to do eating at 1200.