Mythical BMR

Pedal_Pusher

If it works for you, use it. If it doesn't, don't. That's that about that.

kyle4jem

If you've got 50+ lbs to lose then the whole eating under your BMR baloney is really irrelevant.

Sure you need to feed your body essential nutrients, but with a fat store that's ripe for the picking, you're not going to starve (or go into that other mythical state, the dreaded starvation mode).

vade43113

here is a write up on the military study... as for the abstract and the accurall study, still looking

http://fitnessblackbook.com/main/starvation-mode-why-you-probably-never-need-to-worry-about-it/

VorJoshigan

You do need to eat something... you need at least some carbohydrates/sugar since this is the only fuel your brain can use. You do have some carbohydrate storage but not enough to last very long.

I'm not doing the very low carb ketosis thing, but this is just incorrect. Your brain can use ketones in addition to glycogen, and your body can make glucose as needed. It's called gluconeogenesis. Carbohydrates are in fact the only macronutrient that the human organism does not NEED to sustain life.

As for BMR, it shouldn't be a huge concern for obese people like me as long as you are eating some sensible amount of food - which varies by person, but I can see slimmer people needing to fine tune things a bit. The biggest thing is that the online calculators are rubbish for at least half the population - there is much variance between individuals.

sigma54

You do need to eat something... you need at least some carbohydrates/sugar since this is the only fuel your brain can use. You do have some carbohydrate storage but not enough to last very long.

I'm not doing the very low carb ketosis thing, but this is just incorrect. Your brain can use ketones in addition to glycogen, and your body can make glucose as needed. It's called gluconeogenesis. Carbohydrates are in fact the only macronutrient that the human organism does not NEED to sustain life.

As for BMR, it shouldn't be a huge concern for obese people like me as long as you are eating some sensible amount of food - which varies by person, but I can see slimmer people needing to fine tune things a bit. The biggest thing is that the online calculators are rubbish for at least half the population - there is much variance between individuals.

You are correct... but the ketone bodies, that can be derived from fatty acids, are only used in 'starvation' mode when glucose levels are low... they are a secondary source of energy and not preferred - so I guess it depends on how 'happy' you want your neurons to be ;-) Gluconeogenesis can also occur in the liver but needs pyruvate from either carbohydrates or from amino acids.

As to the poster's question, I agree that there is nothing particularly special about the BMR number. But for most people, I don't think that simply not eating is the best way to go even if they have lots of excess fat supplies since you are going to be going into a modified metabolism mode and that can have some undesired effects (as examples, diminished ability to exercise or concentrate)... but the amount to which effects are seen will, of course, vary from person to person.

mcarter99

I think where the discussion gets derailed is when some of us say there's no reason you can't eat below BMR, people somehow translate that into "everyone SHOULD eat below their BMR" and "everyone should just not eat at all".

No one's advocating any particular level, as far as I know. We're just saying that eating above 1200 but below BMR is not dangerous and does not trigger some starvation response. Obviously eating above BMR is also perfectly healthy.

ladyraven68

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpAvFsIUxvY

He's basically just a trainer/blogger but he's got a lot of education:

My formal education background is a degree in human biology and nutrition from the University of Guelph (Ontario Canada), and a Masters In Human Biology and nutrition also from U of Guelph.

I did further graduate research and taught exercise physiology at the University of Florida (Go Gators!)

I’ve taken a bunch of personal training certifications, all the usual ones such as the NSCA CSCS, ACE PT, CSEP etc. I was also a certified kinesiologist blah blah, if you’ve taken any of these certifications you know how BS they are…I personally don’t put any value in these certificates because they’re not hands on and just require a simple written test…so yeah I have em’ but I don’t think they mean anything.

Now that I'm on my PC not the phone, I went to check this out.

I'm afraid he's lost all credibility with me as he doesn't even know the difference between BMR and TDEE,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPkD3bYIlA0&feature=relmfu

mcarter99

I assume he's simplifying the terms for the 2 min. window and the unsophisticated audience.

I would take more issue with his adoniseffect.com site. :laugh:

I can't find non-internet-world authorities that say "it's safe to eat under BMR" because no one outside of internet forums says it's not. All I can show, and I've done so repeatedly, is that authorities don't use BMR in that fashion, they use calorie floors like 1200. And beg someone to show me an authority who advises specifically against eating below BMR, which no one has done.

I know I won't convince you, ladyraven, and that's ok. Peace and weight loss and LBM to all.

BandForAlyAnne

Why do so many people say you should not eat under your BMR? Some even try and get slightly scientific saying that the BMR shows how many calories your body needs to survive if in a coma.

1. People who log on here are not in a coma, we are moving about so burning more calories.
2. BMR is an estimate. Just look at the different values you get from the different equations.

http://www.journals.elsevierhealth.com/periodicals/yjada/article/S0002-8223(95)00366-5/abstract

3. What is a lot more important is the nutritional quality of what you eat rather than the calorie value. Who has a healthier diet, both have a calculated BMR of 1,500. One eats 1,600 calories of lard each day the other eats 1,300 calories in a mix of lean meats, vegetables, fruit and grain.

4. When overweight your body has an adequate source of energy in the fat that makes you overweight.

awesome way of putting it. i think if your eating a healthy balance you shouldnt worry about the number so much. people freak out if you eat 1350-1400 cals like me. something everyone should remember is that people do what works best for THEM. not yourself.

slick_fox

Wonderful lost!

I paid out of pocket to have a medical BMR test and I was told that for my maintainence I could eat 1459 calories per day.
I was on 1200 for my weight lost.

I know my body and if I ate 1459 per day I would gain weight.

ladyraven68

I assume he's simplifying the terms for the 2 min. window and the unsophisticated audience.

I would take more issue with his adoniseffect.com site. :laugh:

I can't find non-internet-world authorities that say "it's safe to eat under BMR" because no one outside of internet forums says it's not. All I can show, and I've done so repeatedly, is that authorities don't use BMR in that fashion, they use calorie floors like 1200. And beg someone to show me an authority who advises specifically against eating below BMR, which no one has done.

I know I won't convince you, ladyraven, and that's ok. Peace and weight loss and LBM to all.

Nope you won't change my mind, and I know I won't change yours, but life would be boring if everyone thought the same.

I'm glad there are lot's of different people on here with lot's of different ideas, because many people come here with absolutely no understanding of weight loss at all, MFP spits them a number and they just accept it.

It's only when they hit a problem that they start questioning things.

Yes they will get differing advice,

1 - stick with MFP
2 - Use TDEE - 15-20%
3 - use TDEE less a defict up to 1000

But it's great that there are people here who have already done a lot of research and had success in their own way, to help them along the way.

I actually don't like the MFP method with the exercise added on, like you I prefer the TDEE minus a defict. We' can definitely agree on that.

:flowerforyou: