Does my friend need help/support?

LastMinuteMama

First...where I'm coming from: My mother grew up in an abusive, very abusive home. When she got married it was "out of the frying pan and into the fire" so to speak. There were people who knewthat the children in her home were being abused, they even said so years later, but at the time did nothing to help. Then when she was married to my father she said it was almost as if she never even thought things were that bad...not until she went from the night shift to the day shift and met more wives/mothers did she realize she that she was living in a very psychologicially and sometimes physically abusive home.

Ok, so today....I went to one of my son's friend's homes for the first time. Mom & son had been to our home a few times. They're both very nice. On one occasion the mom told me she that although she's lived in this town for almost 8 years she has no friends. I thought, "how sad." I've been in this same town for about the same about of time and although I don't have a BFF here, I've got some friends, people I can count on and so on.

Anyway, before we go over to their house she tells me it's a disaster, that she's gonna clean up before we come. To which I reply, please don't clean up on our account. I'm like, really, who cares?

I'm pretty sure the plan was for us to stay outside the whole time, as the kids were swimming. However, my youngest was stung by a bee and needed ice...I enter the house. There is nothing, and I mean nothing, that could prepare me for that! I'm not talking dishes in the sink or piles of laundry everywhere. It is almost indiscribeable (is that a word, I think it's spelled wrong) My son wouldn't even come inside because of the smell. Still I think, who cares? Not everyone is Suzi homemaker. I'm sure that there are people that come to my house and wonder if I ever wash the glass doors since they're always covered in fingerprints and dog nose smuges. So, the house is one thing, but it's something that she says that grabs me...

"Did you wear your bathing suit? she asks.
"Actually, I brought it to change into." I said.
"Oh, well, umm, we don't have a bathroom door. My husband got drunk and mad and ripped it off the frame. It's so bad that we need a whole new door and frame."
"Oh" I say...that was pretty much all I can think of.

I relayed all off this to my mom, since she was the first person I saw afterwards. She instantlly thought that this girl is in an abusive relationship. She asked, "Why do you think he ripped the door off its hinges, who do you think he was trying to get to?" She just thought the combination of the state of her home (like she's given up) and the door = abuse.

What do you think? I mean it's one thing for people to live in an extremely unkept home; but the drinking & violence...I don't know? Does she think this is normal?

I don't plan on doing anything at the moment except being a friend. I'm just curious what people think? Does this sound like an abusive situation? I realize it's just one incident, but by the looks of the place it's not the only thing that has gone on there.

And I know....NONE OF MY BUSINESS, but when does the welfare of other people and their children become your business? It drives my mom crazy when she hears people say that, I think she always thought it would have been nice if years ago someone had made it THEIR business for her sake.


Disclaimer: I'm almost afraid to hit "post topic" with this one, but I really would like to see if anyone has any helpful thoughts on this.
ie: if she needs help and how to help.

bm99

There is a difference between a messy house (clothes, toys, stuff everywhere) and a health hazard (old food or diapers or something stinking up the place). Honestly, if it's as bad as you make it sound, I would call CPS for the kids' sake and let them sort it out. It is selfish of mom to keep the kids in conditions like that, especially if dad is abusive. No one deserves that life.

"Mind your business" only goes so far with me when there is a child that could be in danger. It isn't your place to say anything but CPS has the tools and experience to help mom deal with whatever is going on and keep that kid safe and healthy.

ETA: Are you certain mom isn't the problem? Maybe drugs and alcohol and she's trying to blame dad for the door? It seems odd to mention, women who are abused are often very secretive and full of excuses for their husbands' behavior. And their houses tend to be clean (part of the outward appearance that everything is fine).

LastMinuteMama

There is a difference between a messy house (clothes, toys, stuff everywhere) and a health hazard (old food or diapers or something stinking up the place). Honestly, if it's as bad as you make it sound, I would call CPS for the kids' sake and let them sort it out. It is selfish of mom to keep the kids in conditions like that, especially if dad is abusive. No one deserves that life.

"Mind your business" only goes so far with me when there is a child that could be in danger. It isn't your place to say anything but CPS has the tools and experience to help mom deal with whatever is going on and keep that kid safe and healthy.

^ Thank you! This is what I'm thinking. I'm just pretty sure that if I call social services it will be pretty obvious that it was me that called. I shouldn't care, but I couldn't imagine the feeling of a friend calling on me. It upsets me, makes me think she would feel betrayed...it's not often that people find it helpful when someone reports them : (

LastMinuteMama

ETA: Are you certain mom isn't the problem? Maybe drugs and alcohol and she's trying to blame dad for the door? It seems odd to mention, women who are abused are often very secretive and full of excuses for their husbands' behavior. And their houses tend to be clean (part of the outward appearance that everything is fine).

I did wonder about that, but my mom's thought was that she thought that's normal...like all husband's get drunk and rip doors off hinges...but it could be her or a combo of the two.

I know that my mom kept the house perfect just to have one less thing to set my dad off.

bm99

There is a difference between a messy house (clothes, toys, stuff everywhere) and a health hazard (old food or diapers or something stinking up the place). Honestly, if it's as bad as you make it sound, I would call CPS for the kids' sake and let them sort it out. It is selfish of mom to keep the kids in conditions like that, especially if dad is abusive. No one deserves that life.

"Mind your business" only goes so far with me when there is a child that could be in danger. It isn't your place to say anything but CPS has the tools and experience to help mom deal with whatever is going on and keep that kid safe and healthy.

^ Thank you! This is what I'm thinking. I'm just pretty sure that if I call social services it will be pretty obvious that it was me that called. I shouldn't care, but I couldn't imagine the feeling of a friend calling on me. It upsets me, makes me think she would feel betrayed...it's not often that people find it helpful when someone reports them : (

Wait a week and call. She'd probably hate you, BUT, those services are there to help. We always hear the extreme cases where kids are taken, but they can offer her help or parenting classes or a way out of an abusive relationship if she needs it. Sometimes knowing that CPS is involved (and the inherent threat that they can take your kids) can be the kick in the butt a woman needs to change her situation.

Regardless of how she feels, its the KIDS that will benefit most from you making a call. I understand how you feel, I had to call once before on my SIL and I felt HORRIBLE! But her son was in a BAD situation and HE needed the help. (Everything worked out ok)

bm99

ETA: Are you certain mom isn't the problem? Maybe drugs and alcohol and she's trying to blame dad for the door? It seems odd to mention, women who are abused are often very secretive and full of excuses for their husbands' behavior. And their houses tend to be clean (part of the outward appearance that everything is fine).

I did wonder about that, but my mom's thought was that she thought that's normal...like all husband's get drunk and rip doors off hinges...but it could be her or a combo of the two.

I know that my mom kept the house perfect just to have one less thing to set my dad off.

It could be that she thinks its normal but it does sound strange. How old is she?

LastMinuteMama

It could be that she thinks its normal but it does sound strange. How old is she?

30, but she seems younger. There are three kids. 9, 4 and almost 2.

LastMinuteMama

I'm signing off for the night...I'll check back in the morning. That's for your imput!

bm99

It could be that she thinks its normal but it does sound strange. How old is she?

30, but she seems younger. There are three kids. 9, 4 and almost 2.

What does your gut tell you? I'd go with that.

poodlepaws

I'd make a phone call.... something is NOT right and she may hate you but better than that in prison for murder or dead (God forbit either one).

And while you may never know or hear it, she'd be able to thank you for making that call.

LastMinuteMama

What does your gut tell you? I'd go with that.

My gut tells me something's just not right...I'm gonna spend more time with her and be a friend for now. Maybe she'll open up about something...

JuneBPrice

Just because a guy gets mad when he's drunk, doesn't mean he's abusive. My dad's that way, he usually just swears a lot and calls people foul names. He's flipped a few pieces of furniture in his day, but he's never hit anyone.

Still, if you're even worried, I wouldn't just let this go. You never know.

s1lence

Sounds like there is much more to the story then just Dad gets drunk and rips doors off hinges.

If the house is filthy to the point that it seems they would be sick or couldn't walk without hazard then I agree with bm99 call Child Protection Services.

If you don't know the mother that well then you can't make judgements on the personalities of either her or her husband by one statement. Especially if said as if it were nothing. Keep talking and ask questions to get to know things better. If you are afraid of abuse, talk to the kids too. Physical abuse can be seen in not only marks but how one reacts to certain situations. If there are signs of abuse on the kids then call Child Protection ASAP. If there are signs on the mom then call CPS immediately. But, if you are concerned with just her talk to her. No amount of calling people to help is going to change her mind if she is set to stay in that sort of situation.

cressievargo

Why would you NOT call CPS? They are the professionals, let them make the decision.
Seriously - so what if she gets mad. Better than the kids getting abused or living in that filth.

We just had a case in my state THIS week of a little boy killed by his Mom's boyfriend..and Mom KNEW he was being abused and let the BF babysit anyway. Now an innocent child is dead b/c NO ONE would protect him.

Don't let those kids become statistics.

clarkeje1

Its not normal and its NOT ok. This chick and her babies need help. She might be unwillig to accept the help but the least you can do is offer it to her and it then becomes her choice if she is going to follow through or not.

desilu69

I dont think that you can make a judgement like that by one visit to the home. As a kid growing up my mother was a horrible housekeeper. The house was filthy somewhat to the extreme that you are describing. I remember my father getting so upset about it that at times they would get into fights about it and instead of hitting her, he would hit a wall or something. We had holes in walls. That does not mean that I was abused or that CPS should have been called out on us. We were very well taken care of as children and very well provided for. Never abused as children. When I got to an age to where I could take care of things a little more myself, I started cleaning things up around the house and it wasn't so bad. Unless there is more to the story than what you have told on your post, you need to get more information before you start calling CPS or reporting anything because I feel you have nothing solid to report. A door off the hinges means nothing. A dirty house is just a woman who needs better housecleaning skills. There are lots of people in the world like that.

themommie

I think you should be a friend to her. Keep your eyes open and try to let her see she has choices. If you see marks on the kids or the kids duck when someone moves fast near them then I would call CPS. Otherwise I would just try to be there for her, maybe she doesnt see a way out or know there is something better. Maybe you could talk to her in a tactful way. It is a tough situation.

spiregrain

I don't agree you should wait. I think waiting will just make it harder for you to make that call. You are already taking sides in your head, but you can never know the full story here unless you start doing surveillance (which I'm not suggesting). If nothing is up, CPS will be an aggravating hassle and the family will probably feel bad. If something is up, good thing you called.

Imagine the strength it would take to rip a door off the hinges. Including the frame?! Envision a situation in which you are doing that while you're angry and drunk, not just punching a wall or something. I actually kinda suggest you try to rip a door and frame out of the wall. A person who was not having a violent blackout would really just stop and sit down and cry, or punch a bunch of walls and then storm out of the house or something. The only reason to do that is, someone is hiding in the bathroom -- maybe it's the only door with a lock -- and you want to sink your teeth in to them and make them listen.

She is telling you she has no friends? Red flag: abusers systematically remove their victims support system and prevent them from developing new ones. She is also telling you: in eight years, no one has helped this woman or her children.

Hell, even just not having a door on the bathroom seems majorly f'ed up to me. The whole family has to poop in their where the whole rest of the family can see them? Why has no one put up a sheet?!

Edit: Maybe I should add, I am like you, a non-abused person with a parent who is a survivor of serious abuse.

christine24t

"Oh, well, umm, we don't have a bathroom door. My husband got drunk and mad and ripped it off the frame. It's so bad that we need a whole new door and frame."

I relayed all off this to my mom, since she was the first person I saw afterwards. She instantlly thought that this girl is in an abusive relationship. She asked, "Why do you think he ripped the door off its hinges, who do you think he was trying to get to?" She just thought the combination of the state of her home (like she's given up) and the door = abuse.

I gotta agree that it sounds suspicious.

People get drunk. They don't get drunk enough to rip the bathroom door off the frame - and if they do, they have a problem.

If you are worried about the welfare of the children, call social services.

LastMinuteMama

Thank you for all of the responses, especially to those of you that offered your personal experience.

Although, I agree that in one visit it's hard to make a judgement call, I don't think I could live with myself if something did happen there and I had done nothing. I will most likely make a call. In my state, Child Services doesn't just swoop in and take the children, not unless they're are in danger....in which case I have done the right thing. If nothing is wrong, then well, it was an inconvenience for everyone involved which is clearly the best outcome given the possible scenarios.

Of course there is more to the story and I don't know it, but I will add the kids were a bit scratched up and one had a rash (which could have been heat rash) who knows. The professionals will be able to sort it out. In the meantime, I will continue to be her friend. Either her husband is keeping her from having friends or the condition of her house is. Either way, she needs one.

TylerJ76

Thank you for all of the responses, especially to those of you that offered your personal experience.

Although, I agree that in one visit it's hard to make a judgement call, I don't think I could live with myself if something did happen there and I had done nothing. I will most likely make a call. In my state, Child Services doesn't just swoop in and take the children, not unless they're are in danger....in which case I have done the right thing. If nothing is wrong, then well, it was an inconvenience for everyone involved which is clearly the best outcome given the possible scenarios.

Of course there is more to the story and I don't know it, but I will add the kids were a bit scratched up and one had a rash (which could have been heat rash) who knows. The professionals will be able to sort it out. In the meantime, I will continue to be her friend. Either her husband is keeping her from having friends or the condition of her house is. Either way, she needs one.

Good Call!.