leg strength - not squats or lunges

Azdak

Thanks for all the suggestions - I'll have a look at hamstring curls, and step ups (I do unweighted calf raises often at home and work, but will try adding some weight at the gym).

I do use the leg press - but it's the kind where you push your body weight backwards into the seat (rather than pressing your legs away... not sure if that makes sense?). Will that be sufficient?

I also cycle - but again, I need to be quite careful with this - sometimes it's fine and sometimes it hurts.

I have similar problems with deadlifts to squats and lunges - but not quite as severe, so may well be worth persisting with.

I could try the smith machine - I thought there were issues with naturalness of movement with the smith, though?


Like this, IS? :-) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqJ-RkKrENE

Ultimately, I'm hoping to build my strength enough that I *will* be able to go back to squats and deadlifts - I just know it's not right for me right now.

Right now, I don't think you need to be concerned with the "naturalness"--or lack thereof--of any exercise. Once someone has a medical condition, the usual "rules" cease to become relevant. If you are experiencing pain, then open-chain, less or non-weight bearing exercises are perfectly acceptable. Basically whatever you can do that doesn't cause pain or make the condition worse. That can include leg extensions (focus on the last 45 degrees of movement), leg curls, calf extensions, leg press, Smith Machine--whatever it takes. You can also try step ups, and one-leg squats where you use little or no load and modify the range of motion so that you are not going as deeply.

wellbert

The leg press is harder on the knees than a properly performed squat. A good squat is acl/mcl neutral.

I have a bad knee. Hamstring curls/leg extensions murder my knee.
Squats done wrong murder my knee.

When you squat:
Heels shoulder width apart (or slightly farther)
toes pointed out 30 degrees
when going down, knees move in-line with feet. Knee should end at the same distance as toes. Slightly farther with long femurs/short feet. You should descend until your butt is below your knees.
The way to come up is to push your but up. NOT to straighten your legs. Imagine a wineglass on your tailbone, and you're trying to to push that weight up without spilling it.

RuthieCass

One easy way to do this is to incorporate strengthening into your cardio. If you have access to an elliptical, increase the level so that it's pretty hard for your legs to push through. You can break this up by interspersing these high level intervals with some low-level intervals. Do this for a while with enough intensity and your leg strength will increase. On a treadmill, do some hill intervals. Or, run some stairs (and I don't mean those bouncy stepper machines). I don't recommend running with leg weights or anything, though.

Some Pilates leg exercises might be good. They are also low-impact. Try leg circles-- increasing the radius of your circles will increase the intensity. Another thing you can do is just lay on your side and raise your leg (one at a time). Hold a weight over the leg to make it harder. Doing any of these exercises with just your own body weight should be sufficient for a while.

Another exercise I just remembered is the "wall sit." It's exactly what it sounds like. You can make it harder by raising one leg. Don't know if it'll be hard on your knees, though.

aproc

My leg routines after omitting my squats and lunges consist of Stiff leg deadlifts, leg curls, leg extentions, barbell glute bridges, barbell calf raises, seated calf raises.... Man...Thats just not a lot without the squats. XP I get a lot of my work through squats, front squats, leg presses,and barbell lunges. Have you tried box squats? Not sure if it is easier on the kness. I've found it to be when I've done them. Barbell step ups are pretty good too.

RuthieCass

Are you able to do wall squats? The are not a real "squat" per say, but are quite effective for building leg strength - you basically put your back against a wall then move to a seated position where your thighs are parallel to the ground - you can also vary the intensity by alternately raising each leg.

I have "crunchy" knees from years of hockey and wall squats have been great for me.

Also I have found martial arts kicking exercises to work well as well - alternating front and round kicks and knee kicks are a cool leg workout. Balance postures in Yoga are effective too (like bent Warrior raising to one foot).

I also agree with the Glucosamine/Chondroidin - it has definitely helped my knee pain.

I think the wall squat and wall sit (that I referred to earlier) might be the same exercise? In either case, you should hold the position for long enough to feel the burn.

meerkat70

Thanks again everyone for these really helpful suggestions.

Having established what the hamstring curl and leg extension looks like I realise I've done this in the gym previously and ended up with a *lot* of pain, so I think they're out too. I'll look into all the others. thanks so much.

meerkat70

Tried leg presses and wall squats today.

It's definitely something in the downward motion that's catching in the knee joint. The right side is worse than the left. Even with the wall squats the downward movement hurt but I was ok once I was down. I think this might be the right kind of thing for me, as there's minimal pain - just a swift ouch as I go past the pain point, and then it was ok after that.

brybre0413

If you access to a pool I do my leg work in the pool. NO Pain........

rowerdc

Find a good long set of stairs (I use an outdoor flight that is 100 steps tall, but also use the back stairs at work, going from 1st to 6th floor) and take them two at a time (walking, not running), pushing through the heel to the quads and glutes. I do 15 reps, but you can start slow if that seems like too many... don't swing your arms or use the handrail to pull yourrself up -- in fact, try to use your core as you lift yourself up to the next step.This is a great cardio workout as well, and will build strength in your legs. I love this exercise!

bcf7683

I second leg press, you can really play around with your foot placement to change they way it feels in your joints. I was getting bad pain in my knees and had to stop squats for a year or so, and got by on leg extensions, leg curls, and leg press.

Another option that worked for me was moving from free squats to smith machine, by putting my feet about a foot in front of me when i got under the bar, it took a lot of the pressure off my knees that i felt when i did free squats.

Good luck.

I never do squats on the smith- it puts so much unnatural pressure and stress on your hip joints. You don't feel it as you're doing the actual squat, but down the road, it wreaks havoc on your hips. Your body's natural movement of the hips during a squat is to swing *slightly*, and when you use the smith machine, your hips are only going up and down causing unnecessary stress. I've read it in tons of lifting forums and I also over-heard a trainer at my gym telling a client the same thing.

alli_baba

How about Farmer's Walk? Your knees really don't bend much and I have found it a great exercise for strengthening legs (as well as glutes, abs, back).

myofibril

Tried leg presses and wall squats today.

It's definitely something in the downward motion that's catching in the knee joint. The right side is worse than the left. Even with the wall squats the downward movement hurt but I was ok once I was down. I think this might be the right kind of thing for me, as there's minimal pain - just a swift ouch as I go past the pain point, and then it was ok after that.

Sounds like you need a proper assessment in reality.

The following run decent clinics:

http://www.puresportsmed.com/

meerkat70

Thanks, I'll check them out.

The last time I had my knees checked, the docs said I was fine - just hypermobile, with the attendant issues that go with that condition. I've had crunchy knees my whole life, since I was a little girl, so I have a funny relationship with my knees - on the one hand I can be a bit laissez faire, on the other, I kind of freak out when anything produces real pain.

You're probably right and it's time to get them looked at again. It's been a few years.