NIH Statement on Vegetarianism

Damiilla

Personally, I know nobody that doesn't like to 'pig' out every once in a while. However, all of my friends that eat meat frequently eat fast food, carry serious illness (my father, for example, has had colon cancer twice and still won't give up his atkins diet) and just generally tend to binge more than my vegetarian/vegan friends. Just personal observation, but visible enough to notice.

again i think u are wrong y are u 35lbs overweight if you don,t binge as much as a meateater , i can eat rubbish for england if i want to flapjacks pizza as well as my healthy food that is y i,m overweight live and let live both diets can see people living to a ripe old age if they are both healthy less saturated fat more good heart fats less salt more fruit and veggies people should not put their personal views onto others

Haha I'm not overweight at all, I'm healthy for my size but everyone would like to be a bit skinner and toned.
I wasn't 'putting my views' on anyone but I also think 'saturated fats' go hand in hand with eating animal products.

stephvaile

Personally, I know nobody that doesn't like to 'pig' out every once in a while. However, all of my friends that eat meat frequently eat fast food, carry serious illness (my father, for example, has had colon cancer twice and still won't give up his atkins diet) and just generally tend to binge more than my vegetarian/vegan friends. Just personal observation, but visible enough to notice.

again i think u are wrong y are u 35lbs overweight if you don,t binge as much as a meateater , i can eat rubbish for england if i want to flapjacks pizza as well as my healthy food that is y i,m overweight live and let live both diets can see people living to a ripe old age if they are both healthy less saturated fat more good heart fats less salt more fruit and veggies people should not put their personal views onto others

Haha I'm not overweight at all, I'm healthy for my size but everyone would like to be a bit skinner and toned.
I wasn't 'putting my views' on anyone but I also think 'saturated fats' go hand in hand with eating animal products.

yes saturated fats are associated with meat but they are in all our cakes and biscuits and cheeses and as a vegeatarian i have aten all these things but just as i needed to cut all those out a meat eater can be just as healthy eating lean chicken turkey fish and the occasional red meat what i,m saying both diets can be full of junk and both can be extremely healthy

Killing_Perfection

Okay, then why is the NIH promoting vegetarianism. And yes, there are several studies (mostly done on Lappland and Inuit populations) that show eating meat is just fine. However, for every one of those, there are probably 99 saying the opposite. You cannot argue with the fact that STATISTICALLY vegetarians live longer and healthier. The studies that point out that vegetarians smoke less and make better lifestyle choices also show that vegetarians are smarter, wealthier and and more educated. You can read anything into that that you want.

Why do organizations promote things? For facts, for lies, for money, for reasons unknown, because they can - what do I know? And what do I care? One organization may be as corrupt as any other and I don't have enough contact with the NIH to judge whether they fall under that category or not.

Is that so? Would you truly say that people are smarter because they chose not to eat something? That people automatically turn into vegetarians because they are smart? That they are more eductaed?

While I would like to ask you, where your proof for that lies, I'll state the truth: I'm not interested in abusing google and throwing articles at you while you throw some back. As I mentioned before, for every article you can find, I can find two others, with which you might respond by finding four, and so on.

Your dedication may be remarkable, but you should be careful not to let that turn into blind arrogance. Whether meat is part of anyone's dinner is no indication for that persons intelligence, wealth, or whatever.

_VoV

As an extra added bonus, my 89-year old mother - who lives in a retirement home/nursing home - was so intrigued that I sent her some books - she read them - and just went to the home (Twin Towers in Cincinnati) and requested a vegan diet!! Better still, the nutritionist just called me yesterday and we spent 1/2 hour on the phone - not only are they going to address my mother's wish (along with monitoring her protein stores, because she has wound healing problems) but the nutritionist was so intrigued by the request and the research she just wanted to know what I do, why, and what the results are. I offered to send her copies of my last two years of blood work - and she's going to track my mother's and share that with me (with Mom's permission, of course.

I'm so delighted to read this! Most eldercare settings aren't supportive of vegetarian/vegan requests by their clients. So glad that your mother's experience is a good one.

Bobby_Clerici

I rode the steel stallion for the first time [colonoscopy] to check out some inflammation back when I was fat, and it was all due to diet - not enough fiber - too much meat.
No, I am no vegan or whatever - I LOVE MEAT, but too much not balanced with fruits and veggies caused some big issues.
That being said, I am grilling turkey wings to enjoy - along with a huge salad and some fabulous fresh fruit :drinker:

So glad that you found a meat-reduced diet that works for you. To your health!! :drinker:

Thanks - love your attitude and convictions.
And you have ruined our past relationship where it was so much fun goading you into a fight...:bigsmile:
Seriously, some of us are a work in progress. Again, thanks!

VegesaurusRex

Okay, then why is the NIH promoting vegetarianism. And yes, there are several studies (mostly done on Lappland and Inuit populations) that show eating meat is just fine. However, for every one of those, there are probably 99 saying the opposite. You cannot argue with the fact that STATISTICALLY vegetarians live longer and healthier. The studies that point out that vegetarians smoke less and make better lifestyle choices also show that vegetarians are smarter, wealthier and and more educated. You can read anything into that that you want.

Why do organizations promote things? For facts, for lies, for money, for reasons unknown, because they can - what do I know? And what do I care? One organization may be as corrupt as any other and I don't have enough contact with the NIH to judge whether they fall under that category or not.

Is that so? Would you truly say that people are smarter because they chose not to eat something? That people automatically turn into vegetarians because they are smart? That they are more eductaed?

While I would like to ask you, where your proof for that lies, I'll state the truth: I'm not interested in abusing google and throwing articles at you while you throw some back. As I mentioned before, for every article you can find, I can find two others, with which you might respond by finding four, and so on.

Your dedication may be remarkable, but you should be careful not to let that turn into blind arrogance - and frankly, saying such things is nothing short of arrogant. Whether meat is part of anyone's dinner is no indication for that persons intelligence, wealth, or whatever.

First of all, there are studies showing that vegetarians are smarter than non-vegetarians:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6180753.stm

U. es gibt eine ausgezeitnete Studie von Deutschland:

http://www.healingcancernaturally.com/vegetarians-live-longer.html

_VoV

I rode the steel stallion for the first time [colonoscopy] to check out some inflammation back when I was fat, and it was all due to diet - not enough fiber - too much meat.
No, I am no vegan or whatever - I LOVE MEAT, but too much not balanced with fruits and veggies caused some big issues.
That being said, I am grilling turkey wings to enjoy - along with a huge salad and some fabulous fresh fruit :drinker:

So glad that you found a meat-reduced diet that works for you. To your health!! :drinker:

Thanks - love your attitude and convictions.
And you have ruined our past relationship where it was so much fun goading you into a fight...:bigsmile:
Seriously, some of us are a work in progress. Again, thanks!

Haha! I'm trying to stay out of the mud-wrestling pit lately. Thanks for the kind words!

ninerbuff

Eating meat is causing global warming:


Eat less meat to prevent climate disaster, study warnsFertilisers used in growing feed crops for cattle produce the most potent of the greenhouse gases causing climate change

Suzanne Goldenberg, US environment correspondent
guardian.co.uk,

Friday 13 April 2012 07.56 EDT

Eating less meat will help environment, a new study says.

Meat eaters in developed countries will have to eat a lot less meat, cutting consumption by 50%, to avoid the worst consequences of future climate change, new research warns.


The fertilisers used in farming are responsible for a significant share of the warming that causes climate change.


A study published in Environmental Research Letters warns that drastic changes in food production and at the dinner table are needed by 2050 in order to prevent catastrophic global warming.

It's arguably the most difficult challenge in dealing with climate change: how to reduce emissions from food production while still producing enough to feed a global population projected to reach 9 billion by the middle of this century.


The findings, by Eric Davidson, director of the Woods Hole Research Centre in Massachusetts, say the developed world will have to cut fertiliser use by 50% and persuade consumers in the developed world to stop eating so much meat.


Davidson concedes it's a hard sell. Meat is a regular part of the diet in the developed world. In developing economies, such as China and India, meat consumption has risen along with prosperity.


"I think there are huge challenges in convincing people in the west to reduce portion sizes or the frequency of eating meat. That is part of our culture right now," he said.


Researchers have been paying closer attention in the past few years to the impact of agriculture on climate change, and the parallel problem of growing enough food for an expanding population. Some scientists are at work growing artificial meat which would avoid the fertilisers and manure responsible for climate change.


Nitrous oxide, released by fertilisers and animal manure, is the most potent of the greenhouse gases that cause climate change. The UN's climate body has called for deep cuts to those emissions.


Growing feed crops, for cattle and pigs, produces more of those emissions than crops that go directly into the human food chain. Eating less meat would reduce demand for fertiliser as well as reduce the amount of manure produced.


Davidson also suggests changes in current farming practice – such as growing winter ground cover crops – would help absorb nitrogen and prevent its release into the atmosphere.


In reaching his conclusion, Davidson draws on figures from the Food and Agricultural Organisation suggesting the world population will reach 8.9 billion by 2050, and that daily per capita calorie intake will also rise to 3130 calories.


Meat consumption is also projected to increase sharply to 89kg per person a year in rich countries and 37kg per person a year in the developing world.


Such a trajectory would put the world on course to more severe consequences of climate change.


Davidson is not suggesting people give up meat entirely. "The solution isn't that everyone needs to become a vegetarian or a vegan. Simply reducing portion sizes and frequency would go a long way," he said. So would switching from beef and pork, which have a high carbon foot print, to chicken or fish.

Climate change is a natural occurrence. The Younger Dryas era showed a high climb in temperature and cooling effect WITHOUT humans, car exhaust, greenhouse gases emmisions, etc.
I don't think it can be CONCLUDED that eating meat is the CAUSE of global warming as the article suggests. Attributes, probably. Just like car emissions, factory emissions, energy use, foresting, etc.

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VegesaurusRex

Eating meat is causing global warming:


Eat less meat to prevent climate disaster, study warnsFertilisers used in growing feed crops for cattle produce the most potent of the greenhouse gases causing climate change

Suzanne Goldenberg, US environment correspondent
guardian.co.uk,

Friday 13 April 2012 07.56 EDT

Eating less meat will help environment, a new study says.

Meat eaters in developed countries will have to eat a lot less meat, cutting consumption by 50%, to avoid the worst consequences of future climate change, new research warns.


The fertilisers used in farming are responsible for a significant share of the warming that causes climate change.


A study published in Environmental Research Letters warns that drastic changes in food production and at the dinner table are needed by 2050 in order to prevent catastrophic global warming.

It's arguably the most difficult challenge in dealing with climate change: how to reduce emissions from food production while still producing enough to feed a global population projected to reach 9 billion by the middle of this century.


The findings, by Eric Davidson, director of the Woods Hole Research Centre in Massachusetts, say the developed world will have to cut fertiliser use by 50% and persuade consumers in the developed world to stop eating so much meat.


Davidson concedes it's a hard sell. Meat is a regular part of the diet in the developed world. In developing economies, such as China and India, meat consumption has risen along with prosperity.


"I think there are huge challenges in convincing people in the west to reduce portion sizes or the frequency of eating meat. That is part of our culture right now," he said.


Researchers have been paying closer attention in the past few years to the impact of agriculture on climate change, and the parallel problem of growing enough food for an expanding population. Some scientists are at work growing artificial meat which would avoid the fertilisers and manure responsible for climate change.


Nitrous oxide, released by fertilisers and animal manure, is the most potent of the greenhouse gases that cause climate change. The UN's climate body has called for deep cuts to those emissions.


Growing feed crops, for cattle and pigs, produces more of those emissions than crops that go directly into the human food chain. Eating less meat would reduce demand for fertiliser as well as reduce the amount of manure produced.


Davidson also suggests changes in current farming practice – such as growing winter ground cover crops – would help absorb nitrogen and prevent its release into the atmosphere.


In reaching his conclusion, Davidson draws on figures from the Food and Agricultural Organisation suggesting the world population will reach 8.9 billion by 2050, and that daily per capita calorie intake will also rise to 3130 calories.


Meat consumption is also projected to increase sharply to 89kg per person a year in rich countries and 37kg per person a year in the developing world.


Such a trajectory would put the world on course to more severe consequences of climate change.


Davidson is not suggesting people give up meat entirely. "The solution isn't that everyone needs to become a vegetarian or a vegan. Simply reducing portion sizes and frequency would go a long way," he said. So would switching from beef and pork, which have a high carbon foot print, to chicken or fish.

Climate change is a natural occurrence. The Younger Dryas era showed a high climb in temperature and cooling effect WITHOUT humans, car exhaust, greenhouse gases emmisions, etc.
I don't think it can be CONCLUDED that eating meat is the CAUSE of global warming as the article suggests. Attributes, probably. Just like car emissions, factory emissions, energy use, foresting, etc.

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I didn't conclude anything. The study did.

ninerbuff

Eating meat is causing global warming:


Eat less meat to prevent climate disaster, study warnsFertilisers used in growing feed crops for cattle produce the most potent of the greenhouse gases causing climate change

Suzanne Goldenberg, US environment correspondent
guardian.co.uk,

Friday 13 April 2012 07.56 EDT

Eating less meat will help environment, a new study says.

Meat eaters in developed countries will have to eat a lot less meat, cutting consumption by 50%, to avoid the worst consequences of future climate change, new research warns.


The fertilisers used in farming are responsible for a significant share of the warming that causes climate change.


A study published in Environmental Research Letters warns that drastic changes in food production and at the dinner table are needed by 2050 in order to prevent catastrophic global warming.

It's arguably the most difficult challenge in dealing with climate change: how to reduce emissions from food production while still producing enough to feed a global population projected to reach 9 billion by the middle of this century.


The findings, by Eric Davidson, director of the Woods Hole Research Centre in Massachusetts, say the developed world will have to cut fertiliser use by 50% and persuade consumers in the developed world to stop eating so much meat.


Davidson concedes it's a hard sell. Meat is a regular part of the diet in the developed world. In developing economies, such as China and India, meat consumption has risen along with prosperity.


"I think there are huge challenges in convincing people in the west to reduce portion sizes or the frequency of eating meat. That is part of our culture right now," he said.


Researchers have been paying closer attention in the past few years to the impact of agriculture on climate change, and the parallel problem of growing enough food for an expanding population. Some scientists are at work growing artificial meat which would avoid the fertilisers and manure responsible for climate change.


Nitrous oxide, released by fertilisers and animal manure, is the most potent of the greenhouse gases that cause climate change. The UN's climate body has called for deep cuts to those emissions.


Growing feed crops, for cattle and pigs, produces more of those emissions than crops that go directly into the human food chain. Eating less meat would reduce demand for fertiliser as well as reduce the amount of manure produced.


Davidson also suggests changes in current farming practice – such as growing winter ground cover crops – would help absorb nitrogen and prevent its release into the atmosphere.


In reaching his conclusion, Davidson draws on figures from the Food and Agricultural Organisation suggesting the world population will reach 8.9 billion by 2050, and that daily per capita calorie intake will also rise to 3130 calories.


Meat consumption is also projected to increase sharply to 89kg per person a year in rich countries and 37kg per person a year in the developing world.


Such a trajectory would put the world on course to more severe consequences of climate change.


Davidson is not suggesting people give up meat entirely. "The solution isn't that everyone needs to become a vegetarian or a vegan. Simply reducing portion sizes and frequency would go a long way," he said. So would switching from beef and pork, which have a high carbon foot print, to chicken or fish.

Climate change is a natural occurrence. The Younger Dryas era showed a high climb in temperature and cooling effect WITHOUT humans, car exhaust, greenhouse gases emmisions, etc.
I don't think it can be CONCLUDED that eating meat is the CAUSE of global warming as the article suggests. Attributes, probably. Just like car emissions, factory emissions, energy use, foresting, etc.

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I didn't conclude anything. The study did.

Didn't say YOU did.

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VegesaurusRex

U. noch fur meine deutsche Freundin, eine altere Studie von Deutsche Leute:

http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/14/4/963.short

Drunkadelic

ninerbuff

First of all, there are studies showing that vegetarians are smarter than non-vegetarians:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6180753.stm

U. es gibt eine ausgezeitnete Studie von Deutschland:

http://www.healingcancernaturally.com/vegetarians-live-longer.html

There are also studies that show that vegans have a higher incidence of erectile dysfunction.

Abstract
Previous research has focused on the beneficial effects of soy and its active ingredients, isoflavones. For instance, soy consumption has been associated with lower cardiovascular and breast cancer risks. However, the number of reports demonstrating adverse effects of isoflavones due to their estrogenlike properties has increased. We present the case of a 19-y-old type 1 diabetic but otherwise healthy man with sudden onset of loss of libido and erectile dysfunction after the ingestion of large quantities of soy-based products in a vegan-style diet. Blood levels of free and total testosterone and dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) were taken at the initial presentation for examination and continuously monitored up to 2 y after discontinuation of the vegan diet. Blood concentrations of free and total testosterone were initially decreased, whereas DHEA was increased. These parameters normalized within 1 y after cessation of the vegan diet. Normalization of testosterone and DHEA levels was paralleled by a constant improvement of symptoms; full sexual function was regained 1 y after cessation of the vegan diet. This case indicates that soy product consumption is related to hypogonadism and erectile dysfunction. To the best of our knowledge, this is the first report of a combination of decreased free testosterone and increased DHEA blood concentrations after consuming a soy-rich diet. Hence, this case emphasizes the impact of isoflavones in the regulation of sex hormones and associated physical alterations.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21353476

That was enough for me.:laugh: :laugh:

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Bentley2718

I can't be considered a vegetarian in a strict sense, but since my diet is more than 95% vegetarian and with very little junk food, I will say that I have no moral opposition to > eating < meat.

I do have a moral opposition to the way meat is > raised and treated < but I have that same moral opposition to the way vegetables are grown in a commercial setting.

So I do my best most of the time, and I'm working on making it 100% of the time.

Privately, I mentioned to VoV that I am suspicious of any study the government does because our gov't is so corrupt. If they said "eat meat" last week and say "eat vegetables" this week, I'd be curious as to who is stuffing their pockets and why.

This NIH article does seem to depart greatly from past ones which were heavily influenced by meat and dairy industry lobbies. Government subsidies to farmers who grow fruits and vegetables for human consumption are practically nil, so I doubt they would have the money to influence the NIH position. What vested interest with deep pockets do you suspect?

Here's an article about farm subsidy reform: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=fresh-fruit-hold-the-insulin

As VoV points out, there is very little in the way of subsidies for growing fruit and vegetables in the US, and relatively little money spent to lobby for farmers who grow fruit and veggies or for vegetarian diets (compared to the meat, dairy, and corn/grain lobbies--note most of that is feed corn and grain, again, support animal products). I view any statement the government makes for reducing the consumption of animal products as being made *in spite of* all of the lobbying, meaning the evidence must be so strong that it cannot be overrun by political will.

_VoV

If you are referring to the NIH article, why do you suppose they would like to promote diets which are more plant-based?

redhousecat

again, just choose which scientific article you choose to follow and stick with it. If it works for you then great!
And yet again, as overstated as it has been, scientific articles can be matched all day long. Point is, do what is good for you, not what you think is good for someone else.

This is sort of like religion, everyone pushing their veggie/meat crap on everyone else. Just be healthy and be done with it.

ninerbuff

I can't deny that vegetarianism isn't good for the body. But till I can find a plant that tastes and chews like steak, pork, lamb, chicken, fish or BACON, I'm gonna eat meat.

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VegesaurusRex

again, just choose which scientific article you choose to follow and stick with it. If it works for you then great!
And yet again, as overstated as it has been, scientific articles can be matched all day long. Point is, do what is good for you, not what you think is good for someone else.

This is sort of like religion, everyone pushing their veggie/meat crap on everyone else. Just be healthy and be done with it.
[/quote

It is more than that. Read the article I copied above about how meat eating is causing global warming.

TinaKeniston

Wow, I'm vegan and so wanted to jump into this discussion, but I'm exhausted after reading all the back and forth.

Bottom line, to each his own.

VegesaurusRex

First of all, there are studies showing that vegetarians are smarter than non-vegetarians:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6180753.stm

U. es gibt eine ausgezeitnete Studie von Deutschland:

http://www.healingcancernaturally.com/vegetarians-live-longer.html

There are also studies that show that vegans have a higher incidence of erectile dysfunction.

Abstract
Previous research has focused on the beneficial effects of soy and its active ingredients, isoflavones. For instance, soy consumption has been associated with lower cardiovascular and breast cancer risks. However, the number of reports demonstrating adverse effects of isoflavones due to their estrogenlike properties has increased. We present the case of a 19-y-old type 1 diabetic but otherwise healthy man with sudden onset of loss of libido and erectile dysfunction after the ingestion of large quantities of soy-based products in a vegan-style diet. Blood levels of free and total testosterone and dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) were taken at the initial presentation for examination and continuously monitored up to 2 y after discontinuation of the vegan diet. Blood concentrations of free and total testosterone were initially decreased, whereas DHEA was increased. These parameters normalized within 1 y after cessation of the vegan diet. Normalization of testosterone and DHEA levels was paralleled by a constant improvement of symptoms; full sexual function was regained 1 y after cessation of the vegan diet. This case indicates that soy product consumption is related to hypogonadism and erectile dysfunction. To the best of our knowledge, this is the first report of a combination of decreased free testosterone and increased DHEA blood concentrations after consuming a soy-rich diet. Hence, this case emphasizes the impact of isoflavones in the regulation of sex hormones and associated physical alterations.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21353476

That was enough for me.:laugh: :laugh:

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That article is talking about desire for meat, not past consumption. Read the article I posted about global warming being caused by the meat industry, and read what future meat consumption will be like.

ninerbuff

again, just choose which scientific article you choose to follow and stick with it. If it works for you then great!
And yet again, as overstated as it has been, scientific articles can be matched all day long. Point is, do what is good for you, not what you think is good for someone else.

This is sort of like religion, everyone pushing their veggie/meat crap on everyone else. Just be healthy and be done with it.

It is more than that. Read the article I copied above about how meat eating is causing global warming.

It's NOT causing global warming. We've been agriculturally raising meat longer than driving cars. In fact the EPA is more concern with vehicle emissions more than agricultural emissions.

http://www.epa.gov/oms/ap42.htm

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Drunkadelic

If you are referring to the NIH article, why do you suppose they would like to promote diets which are more plant-based?

Well, to name a few, Cargill and Monsanto have quite a bit of pull in Congress, where the NIH gets most of its funding.

redhousecat

so, by posting that article, could you also be inferring that non meat eaters "do not" contribute to global warming? Or was it posted to view as one-sided?
just confused, that's all.

_VoV

Wow, I'm vegan and so wanted to jump into this discussion, but I'm exhausted after reading all the back and forth.

Bottom line, to each his own.

Thanks for your comment, and don't be put off by the tit-a-tat.

I posted the NIH article to show that all the fears people have about vegetarianism are largely unfounded. In my experience here, many think a vegetarian diet can't be adequate to meet basic nutritional needs, or they think it is complicated and impractical.

ninerbuff

First of all, there are studies showing that vegetarians are smarter than non-vegetarians:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6180753.stm

U. es gibt eine ausgezeitnete Studie von Deutschland:

http://www.healingcancernaturally.com/vegetarians-live-longer.html

There are also studies that show that vegans have a higher incidence of erectile dysfunction.

Abstract
Previous research has focused on the beneficial effects of soy and its active ingredients, isoflavones. For instance, soy consumption has been associated with lower cardiovascular and breast cancer risks. However, the number of reports demonstrating adverse effects of isoflavones due to their estrogenlike properties has increased. We present the case of a 19-y-old type 1 diabetic but otherwise healthy man with sudden onset of loss of libido and erectile dysfunction after the ingestion of large quantities of soy-based products in a vegan-style diet. Blood levels of free and total testosterone and dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) were taken at the initial presentation for examination and continuously monitored up to 2 y after discontinuation of the vegan diet. Blood concentrations of free and total testosterone were initially decreased, whereas DHEA was increased. These parameters normalized within 1 y after cessation of the vegan diet. Normalization of testosterone and DHEA levels was paralleled by a constant improvement of symptoms; full sexual function was regained 1 y after cessation of the vegan diet. This case indicates that soy product consumption is related to hypogonadism and erectile dysfunction. To the best of our knowledge, this is the first report of a combination of decreased free testosterone and increased DHEA blood concentrations after consuming a soy-rich diet. Hence, this case emphasizes the impact of isoflavones in the regulation of sex hormones and associated physical alterations.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21353476

That was enough for me.:laugh: :laugh:

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That article is talking about desire for meat, not past consumption. Read the article I posted about global warming being caused by the meat industry, and read what future meat consumption will be like.

My response was to your response about "lots of Chinese".
Read the article and like most "climate" articles, this is a focus towards ONE issue that attributes to climate change when in fact there are many. To say that eating meat is causing global warming is an exaggeration at best. The EPA is more concerned with vehicle emissions than agriculture.

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Deipneus

I've studied everything from the vegan diet to the paleo diet. I am a point now where my diet tends toward veganism, but I don't do well when there is a "do not eat ever" list of foods.

My most surprising discovery about vegans is that it makes a huge difference to some vegans if another vegan is an ethical vegan or a dietary vegan, even if they follow the exact same diet.

Second most surprising discovery is that vegans don't eat honey. I never thought of a bee as an animal but also, the bees make the honey from materials derived from plants.

_VoV

If you are referring to the NIH article, why do you suppose they would like to promote diets which are more plant-based?

Well, to name a few, Cargill and Monsanto have quite a bit of pull in Congress, where the NIH gets most of its funding.

Interesting point. I have heard local farmers cursing Monsanto because they make farmers sign contracts not to hold back seed for the next year's planting. Plus, Monsanto has created a pesticide for this specific seed, so there's a monopoly going on.

Still, I believe that Monsanto is very much part of the meat and dairy web, since much of the corn grown from their seed goes to feed cattle.

Josette89

I can't be considered a vegetarian in a strict sense, but since my diet is more than 95% vegetarian and with very little junk food, I will say that I have no moral opposition to > eating < meat.

I do have a moral opposition to the way meat is > raised and treated < but I have that same moral opposition to the way vegetables are grown in a commercial setting.

So I do my best most of the time, and I'm working on making it 100% of the time.

Privately, I mentioned to VoV that I am suspicious of any study the government does because our gov't is so corrupt. If they said "eat meat" last week and say "eat vegetables" this week, I'd be curious as to who is stuffing their pockets and why.

Love this It sucks that it is this way, but it is true. I'm sure everything we eat has something about it that is not "healthy", but I guess we just have to deal with it.

VegesaurusRex

again, just choose which scientific article you choose to follow and stick with it. If it works for you then great!
And yet again, as overstated as it has been, scientific articles can be matched all day long. Point is, do what is good for you, not what you think is good for someone else.

This is sort of like religion, everyone pushing their veggie/meat crap on everyone else. Just be healthy and be done with it.

It is more than that. Read the article I copied above about how meat eating is causing global warming.

It's NOT causing global warming. We've been agriculturally raising meat longer than driving cars. In fact the EPA is more concern with vehicle emissions more than agricultural emissions.

http://www.epa.gov/oms/ap42.htm

A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
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Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

There are many books about this subject, e.g., Diet for a Small Planet. If you are an environmentalist, becoming vegan is the BEST thing you can do to help the planet. This has been known for many many years. Meat consumption has pushed the environment to the point where the Midwest aquifer is in danger of disappearing, the pollution from animal waste is poisoning whole communities, the transportation costs to the environment from shipping food to cattle and cattle to slaughter houses is the single most destructive use of the gas engine, and of course meat is poisoning Americans to the point were we have a obesity and diabetes pandemic, and we may be the most unhealthy population on this planet. All thanks to meat.

redhousecat

I posted the NIH article to show that all the fears people have about vegetarianism are largely unfounded. In my experience here, many think a vegetarian diet can't be adequate to meet basic nutritional needs, or they think it is complicated and impractical.

I thought by now, there was enough educational literature and science out there to disprove the inadequate nutritional views. Of course, in my area of expertise, social circles, etc, veganism/vegetarianism is rampant so I guess I wouldn't think otherwise.

Yet, you must have encountered such or you would not have posted the article. therefore, bringing in such literature could help educate the others who see otherwise, which is awesome. Too bad the discussion had to get muddled with the preaching.