"You are probably just gaining muscle"

MermaidFaith

Well i spend plenty of time perusing the forums and I read constantly about how you cannot gain muscle while in a caloric deficit.
So I am always very confused when, on my news feed, one of my friends will post a small gain, maybe a pound, and then feel upset about it.
There is inevitably always one person that will comment, "don't worry about it, you are probably just gaining muscle"

Is this even a legit response? Of course she was in a deficit, she's trying to lose weight. So how could she be gaining muscle?

wellbert

not really, no. it's usually water.

teez52

Like wellbert said, probably water weight. Especially if they eat a lot of salty foods for a few days. Only time you will gain weight on a deficit is if you are experiencing noob gains, however if they are not tracking properly, that could also be a problem.

secretlobster

Agreed that it's usually water. For that reason, I ignore weight changes within +- 4lbs or so.

Women can only gain a maximum of about 2.5lbs per month in muscle mass.

myofibril

It is possible to gain muscle whilst on a calorie deficit but only in limited circumstances: overfat beginners, those new to training, formerly athletic people coming back to training after a layoff. However, the amount is limited and a short term phenomenon only (although I have seen a study which challenges this notion but it was too limited in scope to draw solid conclusions from).

The confusion arises because people use the terms lean body mass (LBM / fat free mass) which includes water and muscle mass interchangeably. Therefore when people say it was an increase in muscle they probably mean water / fluid stored to help with muscle repair or due to inflammation.

I think people tend to ask the wrong type of questions in this regard. It is far better to ask yourself "am I getting stronger" "do I feel better" or "do I look better". If the answer is yes then obviously: keep doing what you are doing and let the scale worry about itself....

kirstenmaria

I'm confused too...does anyone have a brief scientific explanation of WHY our bodies works this way, rather than a yes or no? Healthy food goes in, I do some weight exercises, my muscles ache, I drink a protein shake, I eat less than 1500 calories, the scale doesn't budge for 5 days, but I lose half an inch in my hips, waist, and neck. How is this possible if I'm not building muscle? Is the noob weight that was referred to? Guidance would help, since I apparently need it.

DesignGuy

It's amazing how bodybuilders work their *kitten* off to gain a a little bit of muscle in a month, but someone on a cut trying to lose weight can pop 5lbs of muscle in a weekend.

Like everyone else said it's usually water. Keep tabs on your measurements and bodyfat %.

beccarockslife

I'm confused too...does anyone have a brief scientific explanation of WHY our bodies works this way, rather than a yes or no? Healthy food goes in, I do some weight exercises, my muscles ache, I drink a protein shake, I eat less than 1500 calories, the scale doesn't budge for 5 days, but I lose half an inch in my hips, waist, and neck. How is this possible if I'm not building muscle? Is the noob weight that was referred to? Guidance would help, since I apparently need it.

Because when you train your muscles are under stress and they develop little tears. It's just how they deal with the stress of you doing stuff to your body. They then flood with water to repair and protect themselves. Drinking lots of water helps with this as it flushes through the stuff and stops your body hoarding the water so much.

I tend to see changes on the scale quicker when I don't work out but I look better when I do.

kirstenmaria

I'm confused too...does anyone have a brief scientific explanation of WHY our bodies works this way, rather than a yes or no? Healthy food goes in, I do some weight exercises, my muscles ache, I drink a protein shake, I eat less than 1500 calories, the scale doesn't budge for 5 days, but I lose half an inch in my hips, waist, and neck. How is this possible if I'm not building muscle? Is the noob weight that was referred to? Guidance would help, since I apparently need it.

Because when you train your muscles are under stress and they develop little tears. It's just how they deal with the stress of you doing stuff to your body. They then flood with water to repair and protect themselves. Drinking lots of water helps with this as it flushes through the stuff and stops your body hoarding the water so much.

I tend to see changes on the scale quicker when I don't work out but I look better when I do.

Excellent information. Thank you!

teez52

I'm confused too...does anyone have a brief scientific explanation of WHY our bodies works this way, rather than a yes or no? Healthy food goes in, I do some weight exercises, my muscles ache, I drink a protein shake, I eat less than 1500 calories, the scale doesn't budge for 5 days, but I lose half an inch in my hips, waist, and neck. How is this possible if I'm not building muscle? Is the noob weight that was referred to? Guidance would help, since I apparently need it.

Because when you train your muscles are under stress and they develop little tears. It's just how they deal with the stress of you doing stuff to your body. They then flood with water to repair and protect themselves. Drinking lots of water helps with this as it flushes through the stuff and stops your body hoarding the water so much.

I tend to see changes on the scale quicker when I don't work out but I look better when I do.

And on top of this, you are sore because you are stressing your body in a way that it's not used to being stressed (either by a new exercise or a higher weight). Think about sitting in a car for a few hours, when you get out, sometimes you are sore because you're not used to that type of activity (not to mention the seats are not exactly comfortable).

Your body needs excess calories to build muscle, on a calorie deficit, you can see your strength increase a bit, but you won't get anymore volume.

Maurice1966

bump

laurasimmons

NO its not!

Bethee101

It's amazing how bodybuilders work their *kitten* off to gain a a little bit of muscle in a month, but someone on a cut trying to lose weight can pop 5lbs of muscle in a weekend.

Like everyone else said it's usually water. Keep tabs on your measurements and bodyfat %.

Haha!

NewChristina

It is possible to gain muscle whilst on a calorie deficit but only in limited circumstances: overfat beginners, those new to training, formerly athletic people coming back to training after a layoff. However, the amount is limited and a short term phenomenon only (although I have seen a study which challenges this notion but it was too limited in scope to draw solid conclusions from).

The confusion arises because people use the terms lean body mass (LBM / fat free mass) which includes water and muscle mass interchangeably. Therefore when people say it was an increase in muscle they probably mean water / fluid stored to help with muscle repair or due to inflammation.

I think people tend to ask the wrong type of questions in this regard. It is far better to ask yourself "am I getting stronger" "do I feel better" or "do I look better". If the answer is yes then obviously: keep doing what you are doing and let the scale worry about itself....

Totally agree. When you spend 18 years sitting at a desk or driving to another desk, you stop using a lot of muscle. All of the sudden, I'm playing around with weights, walking 3-5 miles a day, and just MOVING. I think I've probably gained a bit of muscle and was holding on to water, which kept the scales from moving for a couple of months. But I'm feeling better and looking better. I'm losing inches like crazy, lost two pants sizes, but the scale wasn't moving and I DIDN'T CARE. Now that my body is getting used to moving again, the scales are tipping in my favor.

chris1816

Many people confuse DOMS or any kind of muscle soreness as "oh I worked hard" or just "zee progress!". This is far from the case. As others have said only in certain special cases can you build muscle on a deficit. The extremely obese can (dat lifelong bulk), as well as beginner lifters, and even then it is not especially fast. Strength training will cause high fluctuations in water weight, especially if supplementing creatine.

It never ceases to entertain me though the amount of women that are either A) Scared if they bench press a 45lb barbell alone they will lose their tits and look like She-hulk or Think they actually gained a pound of muscle in just a few days. My girlfriend is going to begin strength training with me soon and it was hilarious how stereotypical her mother and grandma were about it, "You will lose your boobs and look manly!"

mmarlow61

It is possible to gain muscle whilst on a calorie deficit but only in limited circumstances: overfat beginners, those new to training, formerly athletic people coming back to training after a layoff. However, the amount is limited and a short term phenomenon only (although I have seen a study which challenges this notion but it was too limited in scope to draw solid conclusions from).

The confusion arises because people use the terms lean body mass (LBM / fat free mass) which includes water and muscle mass interchangeably. Therefore when people say it was an increase in muscle they probably mean water / fluid stored to help with muscle repair or due to inflammation.

I think people tend to ask the wrong type of questions in this regard. It is far better to ask yourself "am I getting stronger" "do I feel better" or "do I look better". If the answer is yes then obviously: keep doing what you are doing and let the scale worry about itself....

THANK you for that last paragraph!!! I was having this discussion with my mom yesterday. In HER opinion, if the scales are not going down or not fast enough, then you are not being successful EVEN though in the NEXT breath she said she could tell I was getting smaller!!! I tried to tell her it's a COMBINATION of scales and measurements! I would say after almost 70 lbs total lost and over 6 inches in hips and waist EACH (not combined) I've been VERY successful! I try not to let her opinion derail me. Sometimes it's hard, but just after we talked yesterday I went to town and EVERYONE I saw who knows me was like WOW!!!!

UsedToBeHusky

If you are obese, it is possible to gain muscle in a deficit, however, the process of building muscle takes weeks. Usually what people refer to when they make this statement is that the body stores glycogen to aid in the process of building muscle. Glycogen is water and sugar and can add significantly to your weight, but it is not actually muscle.

freckledrats

Can you gain strength without building muscle? I consistently do better in my strength workouts on a calorie deficit :P

GetFitE

Because when you train your muscles are under stress and they develop little tears. It's just how they deal with the stress of you doing stuff to your body. They then flood with water to repair and protect themselves. Drinking lots of water helps with this as it flushes through the stuff and stops your body hoarding the water so much.

I was going to say the exact same thing. Muscle building (at least a physical noticable difference) usually takes about 6-7 weeks to set in, which usually results in about the 1-2lbs a month a previous poster was talking about. I don't necessairly agree that you can't build muscle if you're in calorie deficit. I eat in calorie deficit, but lift 2x a week and have been developing muscle. I'm trying to lose weight as well, as build muscle. It's REALLY all about eating the RIGHT kind of macros (carbs, protein, fat) vs eating a certain amount of calories.

Bobby_Clerici

People that say such foolish things are unlearned and off base.
I tell people stressing over the scale it's "bloat", and they should ignore it.

Weight tracking should not be such drama.
I weigh myself daily upon awaking before eating or drinking but after a good morning pooh.:drinker:
And I record any gains the instant I enter a newer, lower number.
EXAMPLE: If I was 199.9, then saw my weight creeping down day after day, I would not record a new weight on MFP until that scale said 198.9.
And I record 198....and so on....
Makes it more fun for me, but some people who stress out over the scale would go insane doing this.
I get it.
To each his own.
I also track progress with bodyfat. Weight is not the whole picture, and the scale can lie as badly as the man in the mirror.
You can check here for free: http://www.scientificpsychic.com/fitness/diet.html
Something else to obsess over? Not al all.
Remember, you rule the numbers - not the other way around.
Have a great day!

wellbert

Can you gain strength without building muscle? I consistently do better in my strength workouts on a calorie deficit :P

Oh, yes. Definitely. I have nearly quadrupled my squatting weight and gained very little, if any, muscle.

There's a few things at work:
1) Your brain is getting a better grasp on how to control your muscles.
2) You are simply getting better at doing the exercise

tigersword

Can you gain strength without building muscle? I consistently do better in my strength workouts on a calorie deficit :P

Absolutely. 99% of strength gains have nothing to do with building more muscle tissue. Strength is all about neuromuscular adaptation, which is a fancy way of saying, "training your brain to use your muscle." Most average people only use about 10-20% of their actual muscle tissue for day to day activities. The rest of it is just there, doing nothing. When you start serious weight training, your brain realizes it needs to use more than the normal, so for example, you squat. Essentially a squat is the same motion as sitting down in a chair and standing up. Your brain is used to that. Add a bunch of weight to the squat, and remove the chair, and suddenly you're doing a lot more work. Your brain says "whoa!" can't get buy on the little bit of muscle you've been using. So it gets to work, creating new nerves to control more of the muscle fibers. As your brain activates more muscle tissue, you get stronger.

beatnik236

I am considered obese. Since Feb I started weight training and doing Zumba, then I have now changed to doing boot camp (high intensity) and I am beginning to run (I am up to 2 miles without stopping). All NSV's in my case. My weight loss has been nominal though MOST days I stay within my calorie range. I get frustrated b/c the scale doesn't move much; However, my clothes are falling off and I can see curves in areas of my body I haven't seen in a while. At what point will I see more weight loss or should I just continue what I am doing? (Despite the fat on me, I am naturally muscular (even when I am "normal" weight).

tigersword

Because when you train your muscles are under stress and they develop little tears. It's just how they deal with the stress of you doing stuff to your body. They then flood with water to repair and protect themselves. Drinking lots of water helps with this as it flushes through the stuff and stops your body hoarding the water so much.

I was going to say the exact same thing. Muscle building (at least a physical noticable difference) usually takes about 6-7 weeks to set in, which usually results in about the 1-2lbs a month a previous poster was talking about. I don't necessairly agree that you can't build muscle if you're in calorie deficit. I eat in calorie deficit, but lift 2x a week and have been developing muscle. I'm trying to lose weight as well, as build muscle. It's REALLY all about eating the RIGHT kind of macros (carbs, protein, fat) vs eating a certain amount of calories.

Absolutely not true. Total calories are the most important factor in gaining or losing. The body needs X amount of calories to sustain itself, and if you are in deficit then all of the calories you do eat are being used just to sustain bodily function, with stored fat making up the difference. The body is not going to add new tissue when it can't support the current amount of tissue it has, it's basic physics, biology, and even logic. You can't repair a building and make it taller if someone doesn't give you enough material to maintain it, the body works the same way.

payupalice

...but the scale wasn't moving and I DIDN'T CARE.

You are my hero!

UsedToBeHusky

Because when you train your muscles are under stress and they develop little tears. It's just how they deal with the stress of you doing stuff to your body. They then flood with water to repair and protect themselves. Drinking lots of water helps with this as it flushes through the stuff and stops your body hoarding the water so much.

I was going to say the exact same thing. Muscle building (at least a physical noticable difference) usually takes about 6-7 weeks to set in, which usually results in about the 1-2lbs a month a previous poster was talking about. I don't necessairly agree that you can't build muscle if you're in calorie deficit. I eat in calorie deficit, but lift 2x a week and have been developing muscle. I'm trying to lose weight as well, as build muscle. It's REALLY all about eating the RIGHT kind of macros (carbs, protein, fat) vs eating a certain amount of calories.

Absolutely not true. Total calories are the most important factor in gaining or losing. The body needs X amount of calories to sustain itself, and if you are in deficit then all of the calories you do eat are being used just to sustain bodily function, with stored fat making up the difference. The body is not going to add new tissue when it can't support the current amount of tissue it has, it's basic physics, biology, and even logic. You can't repair a building and make it taller if someone doesn't give you enough material to maintain it, the body works the same way.

^^This response should be stickied!

MissTattoo

I think a lot of people use it as an excuse to feel good. You know the whole "Muscle weighs more than fat" camp? I'm done trying to tell my women friends that they did not gain 2 pounds of muscle on a deficit in 2 weeks.

MoveTheMountain

It is possible to gain muscle whilst on a calorie deficit but only in limited circumstances: overfat beginners, those new to training, formerly athletic people coming back to training after a layoff. However, the amount is limited and a short term phenomenon only (although I have seen a study which challenges this notion but it was too limited in scope to draw solid conclusions from).

The confusion arises because people use the terms lean body mass (LBM / fat free mass) which includes water and muscle mass interchangeably. Therefore when people say it was an increase in muscle they probably mean water / fluid stored to help with muscle repair or due to inflammation.

I think people tend to ask the wrong type of questions in this regard. It is far better to ask yourself "am I getting stronger" "do I feel better" or "do I look better". If the answer is yes then obviously: keep doing what you are doing and let the scale worry about itself....

THANK you for that last paragraph!!! I was having this discussion with my mom yesterday. In HER opinion, if the scales are not going down or not fast enough, then you are not being successful EVEN though in the NEXT breath she said she could tell I was getting smaller!!! I tried to tell her it's a COMBINATION of scales and measurements! I would say after almost 70 lbs total lost and over 6 inches in hips and waist EACH (not combined) I've been VERY successful! I try not to let her opinion derail me. Sometimes it's hard, but just after we talked yesterday I went to town and EVERYONE I saw who knows me was like WOW!!!!

Really, the scale is pretty much the worst measurement of fitness. It's also the easiest, and therefore it's hard not to fall into the trap of thinking you're not improving if your weight isn't going down at a certain regular pace.

A much better way to judge your fitness is what you describe above - how do you fee? How are your clothes fitting? What do people spontaneously say about how you look? With a little more effort, you could take your own measurements - but don't go overboard on this, either.

Even though you won't gain muscle size, your muscles will get stronger during the recovery process, so you'll notice improvements in the weights you can move - and be sure to keep trying to add weight to your routines regularly (it does not have to be every week, but be sure you're moving weights that are challenging for you... if you finish a set, and think to yourself, 'Wow, tha'ts never been that easy before - I made it to 10 reps without a big problem" then it's definitely time to add weight.

I have to tell you, if I could look and perform like Tony Horton, I'd be fine if I weighed 400 pounds.

A quick note on recovery: I just took a recovery week last week (week 4 of P90-X), and when I started up again yesterday, I was in much better shape. Recovery is critically important: plenty of rest, plenty of water, and keep up with the protein. (I also did drop 2lb, but some of that was probably muscle mass, too - it's a drag but it's part of the process)