Is there any research on "eat more, lose more"?

almostatgoalweight

There are some people here on MFP who believe that you need to eat more food to lose at a faster rate. I want to keep an open mind on this idea, so are there any research articles that show this effect? If you know of any, please post a link here. Thanks.

dhakiyya

the eat more to lose more is about not undereating. There's loads of research on the dangers/problems of undereating. Look up stuff on "adaptive thermogenesis" which is the scientific term for what some people refer to as "starvation mode" (although a lot of what you read online about starvation mode is not correct, adaptive thermogenesis is real, and it's what people are trying to avoid in doing "eat more to lose more") plus there are other survival responses to low calories such as increased appetite that make it very difficult to stay on a diet.

Also it's not about losing more quickly - it's about losing more slowly but losing sustainably so the metabolism stays fast. You still have to eat less than you burn off to lose fat, the idea is you only eat a little less, and lose the weight slowly and steadily and keep it off for life without torturing yourself. As opposed to fast losses through big calorie deficits followed by messing up your metabolism and leaving yourself craving food all the time, and being at a high risk of plateaus and rebound fat gain.

People who have a history of undereating do best with this, because you get into a cycle of undereating, metabolism slowing, then rebound fat gain when you eat a normal amount of food again. People who just plain overeat whose metabolisms are fast will have to eat less to lose more (but not too much less)

The point is not starving yourself, but losing fat slowly and steadily. Eating more to lose weight more quickly will never happen.

reepobob

the eat more to lose more is about not undereating. There's loads of research on the dangers/problems of undereating. Look up stuff on "adaptive thermogenesis" which is the scientific term for what some people refer to as "starvation mode" (although a lot of what you read online about starvation mode is not correct, adaptive thermogenesis is real, and it's what people are trying to avoid in doing "eat more to lose more") plus there are other survival responses to low calories such as increased appetite that make it very difficult to stay on a diet.

Also it's not about losing more quickly - it's about losing more slowly but losing sustainably so the metabolism stays fast. You still have to eat less than you burn off to lose fat, the idea is you only eat a little less, and lose the weight slowly and steadily and keep it off for life without torturing yourself. As opposed to fast losses through big calorie deficits followed by messing up your metabolism and leaving yourself craving food all the time, and being at a high risk of plateaus and rebound fat gain.

People who have a history of undereating do best with this, because you get into a cycle of undereating, metabolism slowing, then rebound fat gain when you eat a normal amount of food again. People who just plain overeat whose metabolisms are fast will have to eat less to lose more (but not too much less)

The point is not starving yourself, but losing fat slowly and steadily. Eating more to lose weight more quickly will never happen.

^^^^^ THIS.

nkyjennifer

the eat more to lose more is about not undereating. There's loads of research on the dangers/problems of undereating. Look up stuff on "adaptive thermogenesis" which is the scientific term for what some people refer to as "starvation mode" (although a lot of what you read online about starvation mode is not correct, adaptive thermogenesis is real, and it's what people are trying to avoid in doing "eat more to lose more") plus there are other survival responses to low calories such as increased appetite that make it very difficult to stay on a diet.

Also it's not about losing more quickly - it's about losing more slowly but losing sustainably so the metabolism stays fast. You still have to eat less than you burn off to lose fat, the idea is you only eat a little less, and lose the weight slowly and steadily and keep it off for life without torturing yourself. As opposed to fast losses through big calorie deficits followed by messing up your metabolism and leaving yourself craving food all the time, and being at a high risk of plateaus and rebound fat gain.

People who have a history of undereating do best with this, because you get into a cycle of undereating, metabolism slowing, then rebound fat gain when you eat a normal amount of food again. People who just plain overeat whose metabolisms are fast will have to eat less to lose more (but not too much less)

The point is not starving yourself, but losing fat slowly and steadily. Eating more to lose weight more quickly will never happen.

Best answer I've ever seen on this topic, and it comes up quite a bit. thank you for this clear explanation! I'm printing this and showing it to my friends who think that you can't lose weight (and they therefore give up altogether!) if they eat more than 1,200 calories.

LaMujerMasBonitaDelMundo

Eating more simply means going a bit above the 1200 calorie goal which is really too low for more than 90% of the population. Truth is that a lot of people here choose to lose 2 lbs. a week & are starving themselves too much with the 1200 calories or less a day. Most of us have BMR greater than 1200 & we all know that BMR is the minimum amount of calories that our bodies need to function properly. So if you only feed it less then the next thing gonna happen is that the body will soon adapt to the low calorie diet & it will do all in its power to slow down the metabolic process to conserve energy to make up for the lack of calories. Because of that, our metabolisms will slow down & therefore we will burn fewer calories than we think which then will lead to a plateau or weight gain no matter what you do.

So when you eat at least within your BMR, you'll feel better plus your body will function well & your metabolism will be normal so with that, you'll lose weight. However for obese people trying to lose weight, they should follow the BMR that they would have at their goal weight which for the most part are still way above 1200.

shyeban

That's the best explanation I've read on it so far, finally something that make sense. I've been struggling with this whole BMR/calorie amount thing. I've been working on 1500 calories but often not meeting it because it feels like I shouldn't. Today, between my son not sleeping, loads of exercise, that time of month and eating less, I feel quite run down. I think today is a day to not count but just be sensible.

yarwell

There are some people here on MFP who believe that you need to eat more food to lose at a faster rate. I want to keep an open mind on this idea, so are there any research articles that show this effect?

No.

They believe you should lose at a slower rate, or exercise like crazy to eat more, not that you need to eat more to lose at a faster rate.

nickyrobinson

Just ran across this paper on adaptive thermogenesis:

http://www.nature.com/ijo/journal/v31/n2/full/0803523a.html

almostatgoalweight

Thanks nickyrobinson, reading the paper I see that for people who have halved their intake you're looking at about 22% reduction in energy used. So lets assume that someone eats 1000 units of energy, and their body uses 1000 so they're maintaining. Now they're eating 500 units and their body uses 780 units. That means there is a deficit of 280 units, which means they're losing roughly one quarter of their energy intake fat equivalent. So that doesn't explain "eat more, lose more". But thanks anyway.

almostatgoalweight

If you eat less, it slows down your metabolism BUT YOU'RE ALSO EATING LESS. So it really makes no difference.

Not according to the research calculation that I posted a few minutes ago, you're losing weight.

Hendrix7

Eating more speeds up your metabolism, but YOURE ALSO EATING MORE. If you eat less, it slows down your metabolism BUT YOU'RE ALSO EATING LESS. So it really makes no difference.

Just, no.

chrishgt4

the eat more to lose more is about not undereating. There's loads of research on the dangers/problems of undereating. Look up stuff on "adaptive thermogenesis" which is the scientific term for what some people refer to as "starvation mode" (although a lot of what you read online about starvation mode is not correct, adaptive thermogenesis is real, and it's what people are trying to avoid in doing "eat more to lose more") plus there are other survival responses to low calories such as increased appetite that make it very difficult to stay on a diet.

Also it's not about losing more quickly - it's about losing more slowly but losing sustainably so the metabolism stays fast. You still have to eat less than you burn off to lose fat, the idea is you only eat a little less, and lose the weight slowly and steadily and keep it off for life without torturing yourself. As opposed to fast losses through big calorie deficits followed by messing up your metabolism and leaving yourself craving food all the time, and being at a high risk of plateaus and rebound fat gain.

People who have a history of undereating do best with this, because you get into a cycle of undereating, metabolism slowing, then rebound fat gain when you eat a normal amount of food again. People who just plain overeat whose metabolisms are fast will have to eat less to lose more (but not too much less)

The point is not starving yourself, but losing fat slowly and steadily. Eating more to lose weight more quickly will never happen.

Eating more speeds up your metabolism, but YOURE ALSO EATING MORE. If you eat less, it slows down your metabolism BUT YOU'RE ALSO EATING LESS. So it really makes no difference.

It's not quite that linear though.

And also - the issues arise when you return to eating a normal amount. If you have conditioned your body to function on less calories, when you eat slightly more, it will be stored more readily as fat.

Hendrix7

Eating more speeds up your metabolism, but YOURE ALSO EATING MORE. If you eat less, it slows down your metabolism BUT YOU'RE ALSO EATING LESS. So it really makes no difference.

Just, no.

What type of claims you want to see? People on a calorie deficit of 800 calories a day? Declined T3 levels(which control metabolic rate) which is linear based on calorie consumption?

Your statement implies that calorie intake makes no difference because the metabolism adjusts to calorie levels. Which is flat out wrong.

MessyLittlePanda

I think the whole philosophy around "eat more lose more" is not just about eating more calories per se, but also paying attention to the makeup of those calories. It's about a whole lifestyle change, a more holistic approach to weight loss and maintenance, which includes exercise and proper nutrition, not quick fixes that won't last.

chrishgt4

Like I said - it's not that linear. It can't be or no matter how much we ate we would all remain the same weight.

You eat more - your body may adapt and use more calories, but not as many as you are taking on extra. Hence you gain fat.

Similarly, when you under-eat, it will adapt but the idea being that it won't adapt lower than your current intake. Hence fat loss.

If you go too low, it will be harder to return to a normal level of consumption once you reach your goals.

Also - over-eating has different effects to under-eating.

When you under-eat, your body is forced to adapt as it physically isn't receiving the energy it requires.

When you over-eat, well your body is just fine with that. It will use what it needs and happily store the rest as fat ready for the next lean spell.

chrishgt4

Eating more speeds up your metabolism, but YOURE ALSO EATING MORE. If you eat less, it slows down your metabolism BUT YOU'RE ALSO EATING LESS. So it really makes no difference.

Just, no.

What type of claims you want to see? People on a calorie deficit of 800 calories a day? Declined T3 levels(which control metabolic rate) which is linear based on calorie consumption?

Your statement implies that calorie intake makes no difference because the metabolism adjusts to calorie levels. Which is flat out wrong.

Reducing calories lowers rate via triiodothyronine[1]. Calories control metabolic rate. When weight loss was just through exercise there was little to no effect on T3[2]. Since calories weren't reduced, metabolic rate was reduced. Meaning T3 is controlled by calories.

1.http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/00260
2.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2649744/?tool=pmcentrez

Seems to me like you are drastically missing the point.

Metabolic rate changes due to diet, but not at the same rate.

Surely you can't miss the logic that if eating an extra 1000 calories daily effected your metabolism such that it burned an extra 1000 calories daily, then no one would ever gain weight ever. Eating more/less doesn't affect metabolism by anywhere near the amount of calories intake that it requires to make that change.

chrishgt4

Like I said - it's not that linear. It can't be or no matter how much we ate we would all remain the same weight.

You eat more - your body may adapt and use more calories, but not as many as you are taking on extra. Hence you gain fat.

Similarly, when you under-eat, it will adapt but the idea being that it won't adapt lower than your current intake. Hence fat loss.

If you go too low, it will be harder to return to a normal level of consumption once you reach your goals.

Also - over-eating has different effects to under-eating.

When you under-eat, your body is forced to adapt as it physically isn't receiving the energy it requires.

When you over-eat, well your body is just fine with that. It will use what it needs and happily store the rest as fat ready for the next lean spell.

I do agree with you there is a limit of too much calories and to little calories, but this is directly related to fat loss. As you said if you over eat your body stores energy, but your body won't slow down so much it stops losing "weight". For example if a person eats 50 calories a day, will their metabolic rate slow down to the point they no longer lose weight? No, they will lose amino acids from critical organs which will lead to death. Weight loss didn't stop.

Yes, but as to what my point is, when you come to eating a normal amount again, your body will be functioning on a reduced metabolic rate, which means that what WAS a normal amount, is now drastically over that rate and you will gain weight more readily.

yarwell

"Although on average, T3 concentrations remained in the normal range, the 11% (9.8 ng/dL) decrease in the CR group would be expected to result in a 14 kcal/d decrease in resting metabolic rate (independent of changes in lean mass) based on published equations." 2. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2649744

11% less T3 gives <1% less BMR ?

stephvaile

There are some people here on MFP who believe that you need to eat more food to lose at a faster rate. I want to keep an open mind on this idea, so are there any research articles that show this effect? If you know of any, please post a link here. Thanks.

over here in england we have 2 main diets weightwatchers which is about points and slimming world which is based on free foods .on the ww i struggled never seemed like enough food and it worked at app 1300 per day ,
yet on slimming world i dropped loads and there was sooo much food it was unreal and all the foods people say to cut down on were free (could eat your filloff) e.g jacket spuds pasta rice all your lowfat yogurts cottage cheese depending on if you chose a red or green day so yes i believe it can work

almostatgoalweight

Keep in mind the title of the topic "is there any research to eat more weigh less?" keywords "eat more to weigh less" I simply said it isn't true, but we're going outside the topic.

Yeah, all I'm after is some research that has a graph that for a (say) 5% increase in intake, you've got a 7% increase in metabolism.

stephvaile

Eat More to Lose Weight

By Hana A. Feeney, MS, RD, CSSD •


Believe it or not, a weight-loss program that overly restricts calories will set you up for failure, as will a skipped meal. There is a point at which cutting calories will work against weight loss because consuming too few calories (or too few meals) leads to increased appetite and low satiety as your body prevents starvation. You will find it hard to implement your healthy eating goals when you’re feeling hungry and dissatisfied. And you will suffer from cravings, ultimately causing you to fall into under-eating and over-eating cycles.

Your body will make a choice: lose body fat or lose muscle. An inadequately fueled body will choose to drop calorie-burning muscle rather than fat. Excessive loss of lean muscle mass leads to weight loss without improvement of body composition or health. This leaves you frustrated and ever-battling your weight.

Ever think that there could be a more pleasurable and successful way to manage your weight? There is…and it’s simple: eat high-volume foods more often.

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Create an eating plan to control your calories and make sure you’re eating balanced meals and snacks. A consistent eating pattern will control your energy level, appetite, cravings, blood glucose and insulin levels. Plus--eating regular meals and snacks help you practice portion control and fuel your resting metabolism.

Be Aware of Your Personal Needs

Be aware of your personal needs. Your resting metabolic rate can be roughly estimated by multiplying your body weight (in pounds) by 10. This is the minimum number of calories that your body needs to lose weight. Consuming fewer calories than your resting metabolism is counteractive. Your total daily needs are your resting metabolic rate plus the calories burned in everyday living and in exercise. Divide your calories evenly throughout the day so that you fuel your body every three to five hours.

For example, a 145-pound woman’s resting metabolic rate is roughly 1450 calories. Factor in calories of everyday living and exercise, and she needs about 2000 calories to maintain her weight. 1450 calories is her minimum and 2000 calories is her maximum.
Breakfast Is KEY

Start the day with a well-balanced breakfast that includes a lean protein-rich food along with whole grains and veggies or fruit. High-quality protein at breakfast will help control your appetite all day. Breakfast starts your metabolic engine and is associated with successful maintenance of weight loss. Without it, you are prone to overeating later in the day. Even when mornings are rushed, choose one of these tasty, quick breakfast ideas.

Poached omega-3 enriched egg, on sprouted grain toast with tomato slices drizzled with a tiny bit of olive oil (to save time, use a pre-cooked hardboiled egg)
Low-fat cottage cheese with berries, sprinkled with ground flaxseeds on 100 percent whole grain crackers
Smoothie made with frozen berries, frozen mangos, silken organic tofu, low-fat plain yogurt and cinnamon (place in the fridge the night before)
Egg whites scrambled with broccoli, nitrate-free chicken sausage and feta, stuffed into a whole grain pita
Hot oatmeal or quinoa with apples, cinnamon and pecans (make a large batch to reheat throughout the week)
Snacking

A well-timed snack will prevent that late afternoon crash and overeating at meal time. Plan to snack. Keep healthy options accessible to avoid the candy dish. Healthy but high-calorie snacks such as nuts and dried fruit should be consumed in small amounts. Prepare these snacks ahead of time so that they are ready when you need them.

Jicama and low-fat ricotta cheese mixed with basil and oregano
A small apple with almond butter
Low-fat plain yogurt with granola and berries, drizzled with honey and sprinkled with cinnamon
Snack baggie of dried blueberries, walnuts and bran flakes
Cherry tomatoes and red bell pepper hummus
Eat More to Consume Less

Nourish your body with quality foods that you can eat more of such as foods that are high in volume, but low in calories. This will help to fill your plate and your stomach without overdoing the calories. Load half of your plate with colorful vegetables and fruits and one-quarter of your plate with whole grains, starchy veggies or legumes. The other quarter is for a moderate portion of higher calorie protein-rich foods. Use this concept to cut calories and create balanced meals. For example:

Add minestrone soup to a half turkey sandwich at lunch.
Add a sliced apple to your afternoon snack to eat fewer crackers and cheese.
Add a colorful salad to dinner and eat half your entrée
Calorie restriction and skipping meals may seem like the clear path to weight loss, and you may lose weight using these strategies, but your weight loss will be slow and frustrating. More importantly, you will lose valuable muscle mass and ultimately you are sure to regain the weight you have lost. Fuel your metabolism and nourish your body with high-quality, nutrient-dense foods to stop battling your weight and lose fat forever.

Canyon Ranch pioneered the evolution of wellness lifestyle and has been an industry leader for 30 years. Lead by a team of expert physicians and other health and wellness specialists, Canyon Ranch operates the world’s most celebrated collection of life-enhancement properties with the goal to inspire people to make a commitment to healthy living.

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