Attention MFP smarty-pants: help me!

lotusfromthemud

SBS, Banks, and other smart folks. . .I need your help!

OK, so I'm an oldster around here and like to think that I have it all figured out. But, for the past six months, I've developed a severe quandary/plateau.

Here's the deal: I'm trying to maintain my current size (although a teeny bit smaller wouldn't piss me off) and gain muscle mass while reducing my body fat percentage. The body fat refuses to leave the party. I've been to the Dr. and there's no medical reason for this. I actually feel like I've gained body fat, as I've gained inches in my waist, booty and legs. (I'm hoping this is due to muscles underneath the fat)

I've upped my calories (I ate 1800 net for three months) and about a month ago I lowered them back down.

I weigh about 145 (I don't weigh myself anymore) and am 5'6" tall. I work out almost every day (5-6 days a week), and am currently eating half of my exercise calories per my HRM. I'm eating half vs. all because I was convinced by a very sensible post by Azdak (sp?) that my HRM may be overestimating the burn because I work out outside and at a Bikram studio (heat compensation = exaggerated burn). I'm eating 1500 calories net, and in the past month I've only gone over that net 4 times, and never by higher than 500, and I'm not dropping any fat.

I'm stumped: right now I need to make some changes, because I'm stuck.

My current plan is to maintain my current calorie level, change the kind of exercise I do (concentrating on circuits and weight training vs. straight up cardio, which had been my primary focus). I've also recently upped my protein intake and lowered my carbs (not crazy low, but right now I'm at 35%/ 35%/30%.)

What else should I do? :flowerforyou: xo, V.

lizzys

the best is muscle for each muscle you build it can burn 25 to 5o more calories the what just carido dose for you you dont have to make them big you just need to make tham that and a good cardio work out you will come to point where you will have to eat to keep your weight on thats what i"m doing right now is trying to build some muscle so i dont have to do as much caridio it sounds like cheating but get a good protien drink to stop from getting to hungry your own body is your worst enemy when it come to exercise not dieting like most people think but exercising it will tell you its tired it will tell I"M hungry or it to stiff to move you have to find tools to fight it if i wanted to drop some weight fast i use to do tapes like the firm they use weights abs theri are big muscle and a good step tape that building a lot of lower muscle plus carido you wont have any fat on your body left

lotusfromthemud

um, bump for more help.:flowerforyou:

clk238

what exercises are you doing? you say 5-6 times a week- what does that entail? cardio? lifting? Obvi you know about intensity if you have a HRM, so you are prob ok there, but if you are only doing cardio and not lifting, you should start a weight lifting regime. it is a good way to jump-start your fat loss. Don't be afraid to lift heavy, you won't bulk up. If you are already doing significant weight lifting in addition to cardio, I can only offer you the tried-and-true plateu-buster suggestions:

1. eat differently- more/less, different foods, different timings/meal sizes, etc... just do something different.
2. work out differently- if for your cardio you are doing classes, or aerobics tapes, you need to shift things up- do a different type of cardio, or go play a sport.

One good suggestion I got was to do interval training. for 2 weeks do this every other day: warm up then run as hard/fast as you can for 30 seconds, then jog for 1 min... repeat 5 times. if you are really giving it all you've got you will be exhausted at the end, and will be sore the next day. since it only takes about 10 mins to go through the 5 "reps" then just do some light jogging or something after. The hard sprinting was more intense than my normal hour of distance running or on the ellipse machine and it really made a difference (and took less time!)

good luck!

stormieweather

Are you getting enough protein to build muscles (1g per pound of lean muscle)? What kind of weight lifting are you doing? Are the exercises complex or simple? (Complex is better unless you are competing). Are you pushing your muscles to failure (necessary to build new/more of them). Or just doing the standard 3 sets of 10 at a nice comfortable weight?

I am far from an expert, but I am learning. Check out bodybuilding.com for some great advice and resources on how to do it right.

lessertess

The way I understand it, it is nearly impossible to gain muscle mass and lose fat at the same time. Body builders do one and then the other. When you want to gain muscle mass you need an overage of calories. If you want to lose fat, you have to have a deficit.

I'm thinking SBS will have more/better information but at least this will *bump* until she can get to it.

Good Luck.

songbyrdsweet

The way I understand it, it is nearly impossible to gain muscle mass and lose fat at the same time. Body builders do one and then the other. When you want to gain muscle mass you need an overage of calories. If you want to lose fat, you have to have a deficit.

I'm thinking SBS will have more/better information but at least this will *bump* until she can get to it.

Good Luck.

Yup, that's exactly right. The hormones and energy available are different during times of surplus versus times of deficit. You can't build a house at the same time that you're tearing the bricks down and throwing them away. You can either provide lots of bricks and build it, or take the bricks away and tear it down. It takes time for a woman to gain muscle mass, more than it takes for men. You should be eating 100-300 EXTRA calories each day to build muscle mass, along with a strenuous lifting program that causes a lot of lactic acid build-up (the 'burn') and muscle failure, which will bring about increases in growth hormone. Also, eating so few carbohydrates will prevent the protein from being spared for muscle growth; instead it will be used to produce glucose.

Alisha28

I am a personal trainer and aerobics instructor and I work out like crazy and eat right so when my jeans seemed to get snug by the legs I knew it had to be muscle gain. I hurt my ankle and have been barely working out just the eliptical and my pants already fit better. Think over working out is not a good thing. I want to be lean and long not to muscular so maybe just stick to cardio for now and see what happens:)


Alisha

lotusfromthemud

The way I understand it, it is nearly impossible to gain muscle mass and lose fat at the same time. Body builders do one and then the other. When you want to gain muscle mass you need an overage of calories. If you want to lose fat, you have to have a deficit.

I'm thinking SBS will have more/better information but at least this will *bump* until she can get to it.

Good Luck.

Yup, that's exactly right. The hormones and energy available are different during times of surplus versus times of deficit. You can't build a house at the same time that you're tearing the bricks down and throwing them away. You can either provide lots of bricks and build it, or take the bricks away and tear it down. It takes time for a woman to gain muscle mass, more than it takes for men. You should be eating 100-300 EXTRA calories each day to build muscle mass, along with a strenuous lifting program that causes a lot of lactic acid build-up (the 'burn') and muscle failure, which will bring about increases in growth hormone. Also, eating so few carbohydrates will prevent the protein from being spared for muscle growth; instead it will be used to produce glucose.

I guess I'm not looking to bulk up and add a lot of muscle, just drop the last bit of fat that is covering up my muscle (I can feel it under there).
I'm curious as to what your recommendations are as to macro settings and calorie intake. I have my BMR tested (some sort of electrode thingee at the gym. . .so probably not super accurate) and it was 1564.
I don't know that I'm up for a heavy lifting program, but I have started to incorporate more weight training. Also, I just started boxing. ..which is now my favorite thing ever. I'm wondering if it's time to do considerably less cardio (scary as I'm still in "lose fat" mode) and more lifting. I've gotten a bunch of things that are circuit based, so I'll still get the heart rate up. I seem to remember you posted something from a study a while ago that said something along the lines of if your deficit isn't too small, you can still build some muscle, even in a small calorie deficit.
Maybe I'm just at the point where it's crazy slow and frustrating?
On the upside, my waist is an inch smaller than it was a month ago, but my thighs are bigger, as are my hips (I'm blaming the glutes and thigh muscles, which are getting lots of work as of late).

Also, I don't understand the last sentence re: carbs. Is that eating them robs the muscles of protein for growth? Or is it that lack of carbs robs the muscles?

I'm so confused right now, even though I've tried to research everything.

MTGirl

Also, I don't understand the last sentence re: carbs. Is that eating them robs the muscles of protein for growth? Or is it that lack of carbs robs the muscles?

I'm so confused right now, even though I've tried to research everything.

I could be wrong, but I think that what she was saying is that if you don't have enough carbs, the protein you eat won't be available for your muscles to use to grow as it will have to be converted to glucose if there isn't enough carbs to maintain necessary glucose levels. That's how I translated it, given her previous information. :flowerforyou:

SHBoss1673

Viv, SBS's last comment about carbs is because of this:

In order for protein to be sparred from being used as energy your body needs an adequate amount of fast energy. In we humans, that energy is carbohydrates. You should always pair your protein with an amount of carbohydrates, especially during post anaerobic workout muscle recovery (I was told 2 to 1 carbs to protein for post workout, but I've seen other ratio's too, 2to1 is what I use). Also, post workout recoveries is one of the few times it's actually ok to have simple carbs, you need the fuel quick, what you don't want is the body to be short of fuel and to start converting protein to glucose, you want that protein for muscle building when the HGH kicks in.


Other things to think about are this:

So you used electrical impedence to find out your BMR, that can be relatively accurate, or very inaccurate depending on the machine and your electrolytic balance and hydration levels. I wouldn't be overly confident in that number, it's probably close, but could be up to a few hundred off. So let's assume it's close, so 1560 is your bmr, and if you're within the norm, that means your maintenance should be about 2225 or so (BMR is usually around 70% of TDEE not including any exercise for someone who is lightly active). So if you're really looking to drop body fat, without stunting your metabolism then I would say a 250 calorie deficit should be about right for you, so say 1950 to 2000 cals a day or so. Couple that with a few days of strength and a few days of High intensity training (can be anything you like, so long as you bump up your Heart rate into the mid 80's 5 to 8 times during your workout) and you'll probably start dropping body fat.

You're right though, it's a slow process, after I hit 12%, it took me almost 5 months to hit 11% and now I'm at 10.5% 3 months after that, UHG! Now my goal is 8%, I dunno if I'll ever be able to maintain that level of work, but I'd like to at least hit it once, just to see what I look like at it.

For you, I imagine something like 16 to 18% is a good goal, I don't know what you're at now, but for women, it's tough getting down below 18% without sacrificing muscle tone.

lotusfromthemud

I just started adding super high intensity circuit training last week. I was just on the treadmill, about to die sprinting on the treadmill (I do this for a minute at the end of each circuit) and I actually thought "Banks would be so proud!"

According to an average of calipers and impedence (by a exercise physiologist on the calipers, so I'm confident in him) I'm currently at 22% (give or take). I would die of joy if I could get under 20%.

So, as far as macro percentages, I'm at 35%, 35%, 30% right now. Do you think that's too low on the carbs? I do them early in the day and post workout, tapering off towards the end of the day.

That's lots more calories than I've been eating. So, that would be 1950 pre exercise adjustments, right? I'm gonna start bumping up in increments. So hard to switch out of the "diet" mentality after three years of losing.

Thanks for the info so far. Helpful, very helpful.:flowerforyou:

SHBoss1673

I just started adding super high intensity circuit training last week. I was just on the treadmill, about to die sprinting on the treadmill (I do this for a minute at the end of each circuit) and I actually thought "Banks would be so proud!"

According to an average of calipers and impedence (by a exercise physiologist on the calipers, so I'm confident in him) I'm currently at 22% (give or take). I would die of joy if I could get under 20%.

So, as far as macro percentages, I'm at 35%, 35%, 30% right now. Do you think that's too low on the carbs? I do them early in the day and post workout, tapering off towards the end of the day.

That's lots more calories than I've been eating. So, that would be 1950 pre exercise adjustments, right? I'm gonna start bumping up in increments. So hard to switch out of the "diet" mentality after three years of losing.

Thanks for the info so far. Helpful, very helpful.:flowerforyou:

I don't think 30% is too low, I mean, let me couch that statement, it's fine if you feel good with it, I do more than that, but that's just me (I actually cycle between about 20% and 50% but my average is around 40%), you've got the right idea on the times of day though. Give the HIIT training time to take hold, I think you'll be surprised at how fast you'll see (and feel) differences. As long as you don't feel weak after the workouts then you're probably fine with the carbs. Different people react differently to carbs, so that may be perfect for you, or it may be too low if you feel worn down at the end of the day.

Yeah, I know it's hard to up your calories, trust me, I battle that every day. Hey, look at it this way, at least you don't have to do what I do. My maintenance is 2850, add my 300 to 600 cals a day to that and it's DAMN hard to find enough healthy calories (especially on my low carb days) to fill that. There's only so much chicken, wild rice, and veggies that you can eat in a day. Thank god for protein powder and 1% milk!

Oh and you're right, I'm MEGA proud of you Viv! :flowerforyou:

lotusfromthemud

There's only so much chicken, wild rice, and veggies that you can eat in a day. Thank god for protein powder and 1% milk!

For me it's usually almond milk, but I hear you brother, I hear you!

Thanks for taking the time. I'm just so friggin' close that I can't hardly take it.

mnichol

bump!