Forks Over Knives

mydeloo78

I loved the movie and others mentioned also (fat, sick and nearly dead, food Inc, vegucated, etc). I am currently on day 17 of a 30 day "meat free" but I'm struggling with it. The meals I am eating I'm not feeling satisfied on and I feel like there's soemthing missing. I am now drinking Almond Milk instead of dairy but I've started craving cheese (never done that before). I'm not sure what I will do at the end of 30 days. I'm pretty sure I can do 80-90% plant strong but I'm not sure I can do 100%, it doesn't seem to suit me.

jldunn713

I saw the documentary after already going vegan. Loved it. Bought the book for my parents. The BOOK is very helpful in getting you started on a plant-based diet. It has a lot of recipes. You can search for new recipes and really have fun learning to prepare vegan meals. BUT you can also keep it very simple and just start with making salads, sauteing veggies, and cooking beans.

jojosmojitos

I loved the movie and others mentioned also (fat, sick and nearly dead, food Inc, vegucated, etc). I am currently on day 17 of a 30 day "meat free" but I'm struggling with it. The meals I am eating I'm not feeling satisfied on and I feel like there's soemthing missing. I am now drinking Almond Milk instead of dairy but I've started craving cheese (never done that before). I'm not sure what I will do at the end of 30 days. I'm pretty sure I can do 80-90% plant strong but I'm not sure I can do 100%, it doesn't seem to suit me.

I have an amazing recipe for "street tacos" that tastes so good you don't even know it isn't meat & cheese, and it is completely plant based and relatively simple:

1 can black beans
1 can diced tomatos with jalapenos (or chiles)
1 can sweet corn
1 zuccini
1/4 of a cabbage, shredded
1 lime wedged
6 corn tortillas (the fewer ingredients the better, I use Mi-Rancho which only has 3 ingredients corn, lime & salt).
1 sliced avocado

cumin
chili powder
salt (to taste)

Cut the zucchini long ways into 6-8 wedge shaped strips and spread on a cookie sheet with parchment paper. Sprinkle some chili powder and a little salt over the strips and heat in the oven for 30-35 minutes.

While that is cooking, in a sauce pan add the cans, a tablespoon of cumin, a heaping teaspoon of chili powder heat on medium until hot all the way through.

When the zucchini is tender, take it out of the oven heat your corn tortillas one at a time on a skillet at high heat for about 30 seconds on each side, then add a zucchini spear (I cut them in half so they fit in the tortilla and get 2 per taco), add a couple spoonfuls of the bean mixture, 2 thin slices of avocado a little handful of shredded cabbage and squeeze a lime wedge over it. So so so so good!

LesterBlackstone

I think if you research that a bit, you'll find humans are not "biologically" designed to be omnivores. We don't have the sharp teeth carnivorous animals have, our digestion doesn't work like theirs does etc.

LOL. I guess if you restrict your research to PETA-sponsored propaganda.


Real science says otherwise.

SYNOPSIS OF THE PRIMARY EVIDENCE (CONCLUSIONS)
Humans can be regarded as natural omnivores, so long as one uses the common definition of the term: a natural diet that includes significant amounts of both plant and animal foods. (Humans might not qualify as omnivores if one uses the definition of omnivore as advocated by D.J. Chivers and associates, and discussed in earlier sections herein.)

To use terms that are linked to gut morphology, humans are either faunivores [meat-eaters] or frugivores with specific (evolutionary) adaptations for the consumption of animal foods. This, of course, means that humans are not natural vegetarians. A short summary of some of the evidence supporting this follows (the material below was discussed in depth in earlier sections of this paper).

The fossil record. Approximately 2.5 million years of human omnivory/faunivory are apparent in the record, with genetic adaptation to that diet the inevitable and inescapable outcome of evolution. The supporting evidence here includes isotope analysis of fossils, providing further evidence of consumption of animal foods.

Comparative anatomy of the human gut. The best scientific evidence available to date on gut morphology--analyzed using two different statistical approaches--shows evidence of adaptations for which the best explanation is the practice of faunivory. (Faunivory as an explanation is also supported by optimal foraging theory in hunter-gatherer tribes.) Further, the human gut morphology is not what might be expected for a strict vegetarian/fruit diet.

Comparative physiology (metabolism)

Intestinal receptors for heme iron. The existence of intestinal receptors for the specific absorption of heme iron is strong evidence of adaptation to animal foods in the diet, as heme iron is found in nutritionally significant amounts only in animal foods (fauna).

B-12 an essential nutrient. Similarly, the requirement for vitamin B-12 in human nutrition, and the lack of reliable (year-round) plant sources suggests evolutionary adaptation to animal foods in the human diet.

Plant foods are poor sources of EFAs. In general, the EFAs in plant foods are in the "wrong" ratio (with the exception of a very few exotic, expensive oils), and the low synthesis rates of EPA, DHA, and other long-chain fatty acids from plant precursors point to plant foods as an "inferior" source of EFAs. This strongly suggests adaptation to foods that include preformed long-chain fatty acids, i.e., fauna.

Taurine synthesis rate. The low rate of taurine synthesis in humans, compared to that in herbivorous animals, suggests human adaptation to food sources of taurine (fauna) in the human diet.

Slow conversion of beta-carotene. The sluggish conversion rate of beta-carotene to vitamin A, especially when compared to the conversion rate in herbivorous animals, suggests adaptation to dietary sources of preformed vitamin A (i.e., a diet that includes fauna).

Plant foods available in evolution were poor zinc and iron sources. The plant foods available during evolution (fruits, vegetative plant parts, nuts, but no grains or legumes) generally provide low amounts of zinc and iron, two essential minerals. These minerals are provided by grains, but grains are products of agriculture (i.e., were not available during evolution), and contain many antinutrients that inhibit mineral absorption. This suggests that the nutritional requirements for iron and zinc were primarily met via animal foods during human evolution.

Bitter taste threshold as a trophic marker. An analysis of the human bitter taste threshold, when compared to the threshold of other mammals, suggests that our sensitivity to the bitter taste is comparable to that of carnivores/omnivores.

There is no such thing as a veg*n gatherer tribe. And there are no records to indicate that any such tribes ever existed; also no evidence of any vegan societies either.

The actual diets of all the great apes includes some fauna--animal foods. Even the great apes that are closest to being completely vegetarian, gorillas, deliberately consume insects when available. Chimps and bonobos, our closest relatives, hunt and kill vertebrates and eat occasional meat.

Many of the ancillary claims made in comparative "proofs" of veg*n diets are logical fallacies:

The misinterpretation of animal studies using domesticated or feedlot meats to condemn all omnivore diets.

The misinterpretation of clinical studies showing negative results for the SAD/SWD as indicating negative results for all omnivore diets.

The misinterpretation of the results of the China Project to claim it "proves" vegan diets are best and all omnivore diets are bad.

John McArdle, Ph.D., an anatomist and primatologist, a vegetarian, and scientific advisor to the American Anti-Vivisection Society, summarizes the situation clearly [McArdle 1996, p. 174]:

Humans are classic examples of omnivores in all relevant anatomical traits. There is no basis in anatomy or physiology for the assumption that humans are pre-adapted to the vegetarian diet. For that reason, the best arguments in support of a meat-free diet remain ecological, ethical, and health concern

http://www.beyondveg.com/billings-t/comp-anat/comp-anat-9a.shtml

LesterBlackstone

There is lots of scientific evidence they produce over long periods of time, where they show why they feel a plant-based diet is better

Only if you cherry-pick to support your fantasies.

http://rawfoodsos.com/2011/09/22/forks-over-knives-is-the-science-legit-a-review-and-critique/

Sarauk2sf

I wouldn't just jump into a vegan diet just because you saw it in a movie. Now, if you are truly interested in veganism, I would do a lot of research and planning to make sure that is what you really want.

Agreed. Humans are omnivores and biologically are not designed to eat this way.

I think if you research that a bit, you'll find humans are not "biologically" designed to be omnivores. We don't have the sharp teeth carnivorous animals have, our digestion doesn't work like theirs does etc.

And to the original poster: check out healthyeatingstartshere.com - Heather is a vegan holistic nutritionist and I've found her website and YouTube videos super useful. I've been vegetarian for years and have recently started the transition to a plant based whole foods diet.

You need to re-read the post,
Omnivores (from Latin: omni, meaning "all, everything"; vorare, "to devour")
We are adapted to eat everything
We have gripping teeth (canine), just like a wolf
We have cutting teeth (incisor) like a dog
We are evolved to eat most things, including meat vegetables fish grains and pulses. To deny this is to deny our nature. It would be the same as feeding a cat only vegetarian food, damaging and ultimately unhealthy.
Only in ‘unnaturally societies’ out of touch with their nature do you find aberrations of diet. Be it vegans, vegetarians or even adult milk drinker.

I am sorry, but both of these arguements are pretty ridiculous. We can, and have adapted to be able to survive on a vegetarian and an omnivorous diet (veganism is a little harder to argue because of the lack of B12 that is not available without supplements). We are not biologically designed to be either one, more, we are designed to be one, the other, or a mix thereof, otherwise we would not be able to survive on them.

And BTW, who cares what the latin name means or whether our incisors are cutting or not. Look at the teeth of a gorilla and tell me how that arguement works.

Lmfloyd28

bump

veganbaum

I wouldn't just jump into a vegan diet just because you saw it in a movie. Now, if you are truly interested in veganism, I would do a lot of research and planning to make sure that is what you really want.

Agreed. Humans are omnivores and biologically are not designed to eat this way.

I think if you research that a bit, you'll find humans are not "biologically" designed to be omnivores. We don't have the sharp teeth carnivorous animals have, our digestion doesn't work like theirs does etc.

And to the original poster: check out healthyeatingstartshere.com - Heather is a vegan holistic nutritionist and I've found her website and YouTube videos super useful. I've been vegetarian for years and have recently started the transition to a plant based whole foods diet.

You need to re-read the post,
Omnivores (from Latin: omni, meaning "all, everything"; vorare, "to devour")
We are adapted to eat everything
We have gripping teeth (canine), just like a wolf
We have cutting teeth (incisor) like a dog
We are evolved to eat most things, including meat vegetables fish grains and pulses. To deny this is to deny our nature. It would be the same as feeding a cat only vegetarian food, damaging and ultimately unhealthy.
Only in ‘unnaturally societies’ out of touch with their nature do you find aberrations of diet. Be it vegans, vegetarians or even adult milk drinker.

I am sorry, but both of these arguements are pretty ridiculous. We can, and have adapted to be able to survive on a vegetarian and an omnivorous diet (veganism is a little harder to argue because of the lack of B12 that is not available without supplements). We are not biologically designed to be either one, more, we are designed to be one, the other, or a mix thereof, otherwise we would not be able to survive on them.

And BTW, who cares what the latin name means or whether our incisors are cutting or not. Look at the teeth of a gorilla and tell me how that arguement works.

Thank you for the voice of reason! Good grief. Human beings are amazingly adaptable, that's why we overrun the planet.

The one thing I would say about B12 is that, based on what I have read, we used to be able to get an adequate intake mostly from the soil (which is where animals raised for food still get it from). Since we have severely depleted our soil through monocrop cultivation and the overuse of pesticides/herbicides it is no longer as readily available as it once was. So at one point, supplementation would not have been necessary, and still isn't for some people (but I wouldn't risk it).

And to some other posters - when did this become an argument anyway? OP didn't ask for opinions on his choice, he asked for help with transitioning. Being omni doesn't automatically make you healthy. So why not be supportive and offer constructive advice for transitioning and having a healthy plant-based diet instead of coming in and trying to argue that he shouldn't even be eating such a diet?

veganbaum

haven't seen the movie, but I grew up on a farm and still live here. growing up we raise chickens, geese, ducks, and now we have pigs. I've personally slaughtered a chicken and gutted it and prepared it for lunch. I have no problems with eating animals raise to eat. now, pets are a different thing. NO ONE EATS THE GOOSE!!!!! lol!!! OR DUCKIE!!!! or my son's hen Cotton. they can eat any other duck or goose or chicken on the farm, but we don't eat pets! :P

a good one to watch is Super-size Me! THAT was gross! but I admit, I still indulge my kids once in a while.. :P they eat good otherwise.

I respect that. But, it's difficult to have the conversation if you haven't seen the movie or read the book. There is lots of scientific evidence they produce over long periods of time, where they show why they feel a plant-based diet is better. Without seeing it, and understanding what they are saying, it's almost impossible to discuss because people that haven't seen it don't have a basis of understanding. It's very specific as to why a plant-based diet is better for you. It's not saying you can't eat meat, it just shows you why it's better for you not to. I am also aware that it could be propoganda. But, I don't think it is. it is very convincing, and the data is extremely convincing.

As an ethical vegan, I very much appreciate you adopting the term "plant-based diet." For you, it might be easiest to transition by switching things out as you go. Run out of cow's milk, then buy a plant milk - you might have to try different ones until you find one you like (if you choose to continue drinking milk). If you choose to sometimes used processed foods don't compare them to what you're "replacing" - appreciate it for itself. Look up vegan recipes for your favorite dishes. Make these your staples, then once you have those down you can branch out and start trying new things - there's so much out there! Staples can be things like tacos, pasta, burritos, soups, chili, casseroles - all made with beans and veggies. My roommate and I are starving students, both vegan. We make one big batch of something simple at the start of the week to use for lunch or dinner for 3-5 days, which really helps, for a number of reasons. I suggest doing the same so you always have one meal taken care of.

Try the book Becoming Vegan or Vegan for Life for information on how to be a healthy vegan. Join one of the veggie groups for more support. Happy Herbivore is made up of people at various stages of plant-based eating. Good luck. If you're interested, you could PM me and I could send you an example of a basic grocery list of things that I tend to always have on hand.

Jstar1000

If it is a plant, eat it, if its made in a plant, don't eat it...pretty simple.

Robin_Bin

Thanks everyone for the encouragement. I think what I'll do is just slowly transition. Not overnight. I still have a freezer full of chicken to eat. And, since I don't really know exactly what to do, I'll probably incorporate meat on some days and skip it on others. Probably vegetarian or maybe pescatarian at first, get used to it, then if it sticks, get further into it by stopping eating fish and moving forward.

Maybe I gave the impression that I'm doing it now. That's not the case. Think of me like a large cruise ship. Turning me around will take a long time. That's just how I roll, or float. Lol. Baby steps toward a goal.

Sounds like you're being very sensible about it. Good luck! I'll probably never be completely vegetarian, but I eat way less meat than I did. Ironically, eating less meat, and looking at the options has really expanded my meal choices in many ways. Over the years I've learned more about nutrition and using spices rather than salt and meat fat for flavor. Meal planning doesn't start by assuming that the main dish is meat. Luckily there are many online recipe sources now and the various vegetarian groups on this site. I recommend educating yourself about "complete" proteins and the nutrients that new vegetarians sometimes miss. Enjoy!

tadpole242

And BTW, who cares what the latin name means or whether our incisors are cutting or not. Look at the teeth of a gorilla and tell me how that arguement works.

Unknowingly you have negated your whole argument for in case you didn't know it... Gorillas are omnivores. they will eat everything from dead wood to insects and small dead animals. OK it only makes up < 2% of their diet. but they do not eat only vegetable matter. "Feeding ecology of free ranging mountain gorillas (Gorilla gorilla beringei)" Fossey, D., & Harcourt, A.H. (1977)

Sarauk2sf

And BTW, who cares what the latin name means or whether our incisors are cutting or not. Look at the teeth of a gorilla and tell me how that arguement works.

Unknowingly you have negated your whole argument for in case you didn't know it... Gorillas are omnivores. they will eat everything from dead wood to insects and small dead animals. OK it only makes up < 2% of their diet. but they do not eat only vegetable matter. "Feeding ecology of free ranging mountain gorillas (Gorilla gorilla beringei)" Fossey, D., & Harcourt, A.H. (1977)

LOL. I know that gorillas eat small animals on occasion and forage on insects (which, I do not think they exactly need their incisors for). You are totally missing the point I was trying to make by focussing on pedantic arguements.

Misiaxcore

I wouldn't just jump into a vegan diet just because you saw it in a movie. Now, if you are truly interested in veganism, I would do a lot of research and planning to make sure that is what you really want.

It's difficult to respond to this unless you've seen it. If you have seen it, you would not have made that response. You might have said something else, but not that.

I've seen the movie, along with others and would say exactly what drewols said.

What now?

tadpole242

LOL. I know that gorillas eat small animals on occasion and forage on insects (which, I do not think they exactly need their incisors for). You are totally missing the point I was trying to make by focussing on pedantic arguements.

Your argument is what? Teeth are not only for eating.

Sarauk2sf

LOL. I know that gorillas eat small animals on occasion and forage on insects (which, I do not think they exactly need their incisors for). You are totally missing the point I was trying to make by focussing on pedantic arguements.

Your argument is what? Teeth are not only for eating.

LOL. So missing the point.

tadpole242

LOL. I know that gorillas eat small animals on occasion and forage on insects (which, I do not think they exactly need their incisors for). You are totally missing the point I was trying to make by focussing on pedantic arguements.

Your argument is what? Teeth are not only for eating.

LOL. So missing the point.

So explain it then, if the point is so easy to miss you're not making it very well. as a teacher you fail.

Sarauk2sf

LOL. I know that gorillas eat small animals on occasion and forage on insects (which, I do not think they exactly need their incisors for). You are totally missing the point I was trying to make by focussing on pedantic arguements.

Your argument is what? Teeth are not only for eating.

LOL. So missing the point.

So explain it then, if the point is so easy to miss you're not making it very well. as a teacher you fail.

Just as well I am not one then isn't. I probably would not have the patience with a lot of my students if I was anyway.

neverstray

I wouldn't just jump into a vegan diet just because you saw it in a movie. Now, if you are truly interested in veganism, I would do a lot of research and planning to make sure that is what you really want.

It's difficult to respond to this unless you've seen it. If you have seen it, you would not have made that response. You might have said something else, but not that.

I've seen the movie, along with others and would say exactly what drewols said.

What now?

Dunno. How about you do what you want and I'll do what I want.

For all theaters that came onto my thread and ruined it with negativity and opposing views, why did you do that? It annoying and added nothing to this thread. Thanks for wasting my time with your negative energy.