Removing Weight Mid-Routine

DarthH8

What are good rules on removing weight in between sets due to being more fatigued than expected.

For example:

I've made it up to doing 70 lbs. 8x8 barbell curls. Today I figured I had a good enough rest, my arms felt okay. But I got about 5 or 6 sets in and couldn't finish the last few sets! What do you guys do in this situation? Should I just take it down 5-10 lbs and finish my sets? I don't know if it makes any difference but ending the workout with less weight than you were using... Could that cause your muscles not to gain as much as they could have after lifting the bigger weight?

In the end it probably just comes down to knowing what you can do and planning out your weight so you can finish the sets you expected.

taylor5877

8x8?

Ugh, put more weight on sets 1-3 and step away from the curls afterwards would be my suggestion. Between the rows and pulldowns you should be doing you shouldn't have to do so many sets for biceps.

DopeItUp

8x8 sets is a ton, btw. I never really see anyone ever do more than 3 or 5 sets of anything. Seems overkill to me. I do 3x8 or 5x5 depending on the exercise, personally. Very common to do either/or.

But regardless of that, if I'm doing 8 reps of something and I start struggling later, I just do as many reps as I can. 5 or 6 is fine, work your way back up next week. If you can't do at least 5 I'd say lower the weight. Even 5lbs makes a big difference.

There's no real rules or anything regarding this. Everyone should be struggling with the last few reps of their sets (especially the final set) for maximum strength gains. Sometimes you'll get them, sometimes you won't.

mustgetmuscles1

Got to agree with the others. Drop down on the volume. Raise the weight and do 3-4 sets. If you are struggling with the last couple reps on the last set that means you are using the correct amount of weight. If you really want to finish the set with all the reps you can do a rest pause or a drop set. I like using a rest pause if Im using a machine. If I only get up 5 reps I rest a few seconds then do another couple. Rest, and then get the last one. If I had a spotter I would have them help me on the last couple but working out alone this is the next best thing.

If your sets looks something like this:
8-8-7-5
it is totally fine as long as you are pushing yourself to improve on the next workout.

DarthH8

Well I'm cutting for a little while longer until I lose all of the fat. And I workout at least 5 days a week if not 6 or 7. I really like my routine I do 5x5 arms/chest, 5x5 legs/back, stomach/run, 8x8 arms only, 8x8 legs only every monday-fri. So I do really like the routine. I switch it up a lot so that really isn't that important lol. I rarely do the same of anything, sets or even exercises period. That being said, in the event I make a bad decision and put on too much weight. What do you guys think about ending on less weight than you were using mid-workout?

mmapags

You do what you have to do to be safe. That can either mean doing less that day, in other words reducing volume or reducing weight and keeping volume the same. I'd chose the first.

mustgetmuscles1

Well I'm cutting for a little while longer until I lose all of the fat. And I workout at least 5 days a week if not 6 or 7. I really like my routine I do 5x5 arms/chest, 5x5 legs/back, stomach/run, 8x8 arms only, 8x8 legs only every monday-fri. So I do really like the routine. I switch it up a lot so that really isn't that important lol. I rarely do the same of anything, sets or even exercises period. That being said, in the event I make a bad decision and put on too much weight. What do you guys think about ending on less weight than you were using mid-workout?

Nothing wrong with lowering the weight midway through a set. It is called a drop set. Some guys like them and some dont. Some people will incorporate a burnout set for the last one. Where you lower the weight and then go until failure. I have done this a few time when I got done with a workout and still felt like I some left in the tank. or just to mix it up a bit : )

DavPul

8x8 is ridiculous. Dropping weight mid set is fine .

kdiamond

What the others said. 8 sets is too much. 5x5 or 4x8 would be preferable, even for a cutting routine.

DarthH8

I guess I'm doing something wrong. At 60 lbs. I can finish 8x8. But, the first 4 sets I don't feel *kitten* for a burn. So I do 4 more. For the remaining 4 I feel a massive burn in my muscles and I have to break form to finish the last set. If I add 5-10 lbs. to that I can only do 5x5 and break form on the last set. Any more weight than that, and I can't do a single rep. So at 65-70 curls normally I have to drop to 55-60 lbs. on a day where my arms still aren't full recovered (that's okay I'm not bulking right now). 4 sets of that slightly dropped weight is like no burn at all and feels like a waste of time, so I do 4 more. Seems legit to me.

Hendrix7

But, the first 4 sets I don't feel *kitten* for a burn.

You need to get away from chasing 'the burn' and focus on stimulating the muscle properly, then moving on to the next exercise.

4 quality sets which go to failure in between the 8-12 rep range is enough.

The burn you feel is lactic acid build up, however this is not directly related to muscle growth.




.

mmapags

But, the first 4 sets I don't feel *kitten* for a burn.

You need to get away from chasing 'the burn' and focus on stimulating the muscle properly, then moving on to the next exercise.

4 quality sets which go to failure in between the 8-12 rep range is enough.

The burn you feel is lactic acid build up, however this is not directly related to muscle growth.

This^

DarthH8

I think I need to make a new topic about my routine, everyone seems to have missed my point... I'll get to that after my two cents about that routine. I feel like for weight loss it is a good routine. I'm not chasing the burn to gain muscle. I'm chasing it because that's when I feel like I'm working the hardest and that's the goal right now.

I did cardio only for over a year and lost a lot of muscle. So I tried a bulking routine for a month. I gained so much muscle (compared to what I had) it's insane. I actually wasn't eating nearly as much as I should have and I still had great gains. I'm not really worried about gaining muscle, I've got a good feel for that. And for now I have a plan to maintain during weight loss. After seeing these things I made the decision to lose all of my visible body fat so I can feel better about gaining some during a really well-fed bulk. My routine changes so much because I'm always learning something new about exercise. Like I'm even going to try some different things based on the ridicule on my 8x8. I do the second arms and legs routine with tons of sets and reps so that it differs from the first routine in the week. So if I only do 4 sets, I have to drop to 4-5 reps. And that just is not different enough of a routine. That's important to me.

As for the question at hand. For when I do want to grow muscle again. The example I gave is simply what made me think of the issue. I've seen a couple say that dropping weight is okay. Is it? I mean how does your body know how much to work on each muscle? How large the tears in your muscles are? What exactly is tearing? Will the amount of damage and swelling go down because you are using less weight at the end of your workout than you were in the beginning of it? This is what I asked. I apologize if I didn't make sense the first time. I tend to jump around my thoughts when communicating on the internet and some things get a little bit jumbled when I come back to it. One of those people that reread their post a million times.

DarthH8

This is all pure speculation. Based on an idea that came to my mind while working out. Does anyone know the dynamics of how muscle breaks down and repairs? Is it possible there is a factor that can cause a muscle to be less damaged than it would have been if ending with a high weight?

Say given the same amount of resources to repair and build. Will the body increase more mass if the intensity of the resistance was higher during the entire period of stress than it would if it were lowered at the end?

mustgetmuscles1

The routine is not usually different whether you are building or cutting. While you can not build muscle on a calorie deficit you can continue to build strength. You really just need to stimulate the muscle not destroy them. As long as you are doing as much weight as you can for 3-4 sets you will continue to stimulate the muscle and create the micro tears that you are talking about. This will keep the atrophy to a minimum on a cut.

There is a program called the Wendler 5/3/1 that has a lot of diversity to the program. It sounds like a perfect program for you.

Here is the program for free. You just need to find out your stats and fill it out and it will create a program for you. It changes from heavy weeks to light weeks.
http://www.strstd.com/

DarthH8

The real question is about what your muscle is going to do if you stopped on a high weight versus dropping weight to continue to exercise. While you are burning more energy at that very time. That isn't what causes the muscle gain. So ideally wouldn't stopping on the high weight cause your body to build more mass?

I re-posted the topic without anything to do with my routine here:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/676435-removing-weight-mid-routine-part-2

I'm extremely curious right now and this thread just went wrong lol.

And yeah, like I said I switch my routine so often that isn't important at all to be honest. I switch it so often I checked out this link you showed me, and I love it. Not sure if I'm going to switch to this right now because I wanted to do insanity or p90x now that I'm 50 thousand more times in shape since the last time I tried them. But when I'm done with my body fat (almost there!) I'm gonna do this routine for SURE. Thanks man this is awesome :-D


P.S.

I freaking LOVE how they include the "accessory work" thing. That term just brought a whole new dynamic to my workout routines.