Losing 5-7 more pounds-advice please

AwMyLoLo

I Love Beer, but to get where I need to be I can't be drinking it every weekend. I've busted my *kitten* too much to give it all back.

X 2. The weeks where I had 1 or 2 beers on a saturday thinking it was ok. I didn't lose any weight that week.
It's been mentioned on here several times.
Doesn't matter if their 67 calorie beers or 200 calories beers. Alcohol slows down the metabolism.

The original point of my post was to find out if it is a bad idea or not to eat 1400 (500 cal defecit from my TDEE) calories net throughout the week and then have a 500 or 600 calorie surpluss for 2 days. So basically I would be cancelling out any defecit for the week.

Is that including your exercise calories? I would say it's a bad idea to just eat 1400 each day and 2400 on weekends(2 days). if your burning ~300 calories exercise per day
Net caloric intake is 1100 during week , (2100 for 2 days)? that's if you work burn 300 calories each day.
Not sure why you would want to cancel out all your hard work.
You might think your canceling your defecit, but you could be steping backwards as well.

FWIW, That's not much of zigzag. from what I read people who zigzag they go up and down each day 200-300 calories.

I am eating my exercise calories throughout the week, getting 1400 NET.

AwMyLoLo

Alright, now I'm just really confused. :sad: Would it be better for me (((take any kind of weight loss out of the picture))) to eat my maintenance calories throughout the week (1680 according to MFP), and continue to eat the way I do on the weekend where I usually eat (and drink) around 2500 per day (Saturday and Sunday). I have lost 10 pounds by eating 1200 during the week and my normal weekend. I just don't want to screw up my metabolism.

SHBoss1673

OK, so I was asked to post on this thread, maybe offer up my take on things. So I'll do that. Again, like the rest of you guys, I'm not an expert, so take what I give for what it's worth, I'm just a guy who's been doing this with a pretty fair amount of success for a few years now, and have taken the time to do loads of research.

That being said a few things I'd like to mention.

1) Alcohol is evil. Alcohol (specifically the actual chemical alcohol, not alcoholic beverages) starts to be absorbed the moment it passes your lips, but the majority enters your blood as it enters your stomach, it enters the blood very rapidly, and in effect replaces carbohydrates as the main fuel for the body. This is bad, as those replaced carbs instead are converted to fat. And this doesn't even take into account the carbohydrates and sugars involved with drinks, this is just talking about the alcohol itself. Besides the obvious immediate problem stated above, alcohol also lowers inhibitions, which may lead to eating more things you shouldn't (whether that's amount or quality matters little, both are bad news). Add to that the adverse affects alcohol has on the liver, and you have a recipe for disaster with weight loss. That doesn't mean you shouldn't or can't ever drink, it just means that over the long term, drinking more than 1 or 2 (or maybe 3 or 4 for some of the larger men out there) in one sitting, more than once every couple of weeks can lead to serious set backs with weight loss.

2) Specifically to your case AwMyLoLo, I have some questions. 1st, what is your Body Fat %? 2nd, why are you combo training every day (cardio and weights same day)?

With less than 10 lbs to lose, this should be in the forefront of your concerns. Put it this way, you could probably lose that last 5 or even 10 lbs and maybe still have some pudge hanging around, because once you get down into that "normal" range, it's not about weight any more, it's about body fat. For most of us the transition from "I need to lose weight" to "I need to lower my body fat %" is a difficult one.
Who cares what you weigh, it's how much of that weight is body fat that really matters, I'll say this, at
5' 6", you could be 120 or 130 or even 135 and still look spectacular if you get your body fat to lean mass ratios correct.

Generally I usually tell people that the last five to ten pounds takes a lot more dedication than 45 minutes a day, 3 days a week, it takes more like 1 and a half hours a day 6 days a week. AND (and this is big), you need to keep very good track of your diet, VERY good. When I say that I mean, not only just calories, but when you have those calories, what macro nutrients are in each meal, and what your total macros are every day. Also, when you're talking about being at a healthy weight, and trying to drop body fat, you need to eat very close to your maintenance calories, and that INCLUDES exercise calories. Put it this way, 250 calorie deficit is about the maximum I would recommend, anything more than that and you're probably causing your metabolism to run in an inefficient manner to some degree (depending on how tolerant your specific body is to caloric deficits).

Lastly, On the subject of exercise, straight moderate cardio and regular weight training probably isn't good enough at this point. We're talking about you being at a point where your body feels comfortable where it is, jogging a couple of miles and doing 5 to 10 isolation weight exercises 3 times a week with moderate weights probably isn't going to do a heck of a lot more than maintain your current physique. You need to do some serious work, some kind of boot camp, some kind of hard core circuit training, and/or some hypertrophy training. That's the only way to really body sculpt. And lets face it, a 1/2 inch of pudge around the middle isn't a lot, in order to remove it, you're going to have to battle the body, it's not going to want to give up that fat, it's your body's security blanket, so you need to tear away that blanket by force, literally work your body hard enough and long enough so that it has no choice but to use up those energy stores.

Hopefully this will help you. I know some of this doesn't sound easy, and lets face it, it's NOT easy, but then again, if it was easy, everyone would be ripped, and nobody would have any fat around their middle. You gotta work HARD to have abs and see them, and to lose that little bit of left over gut.

For specific question or if you need some suggestions on workout routines or anything, you can PM me, I'm always happy to lend a hand. But remember, everyone's different, some tweaking will almost definitely have to occur to get it right for you.

-Banks

AwMyLoLo

OK, so I was asked to post on this thread, maybe offer up my take on things. So I'll do that. Again, like the rest of you guys, I'm not an expert, so take what I give for what it's worth, I'm just a guy who's been doing this with a pretty fair amount of success for a few years now, and have taken the time to do loads of research.

That being said a few things I'd like to mention.

1) Alcohol is evil. Alcohol (specifically the actual chemical alcohol, not alcoholic beverages) starts to be absorbed the moment it passes your lips, but the majority enters your blood as it enters your stomach, it enters the blood very rapidly, and in effect replaces carbohydrates as the main fuel for the body. This is bad, as those replaced carbs instead are converted to fat. And this doesn't even take into account the carbohydrates and sugars involved with drinks, this is just talking about the alcohol itself. Besides the obvious immediate problem stated above, alcohol also lowers inhibitions, which may lead to eating more things you shouldn't (whether that's amount or quality matters little, both are bad news). Add to that the adverse affects alcohol has on the liver, and you have a recipe for disaster with weight loss. That doesn't mean you shouldn't or can't ever drink, it just means that over the long term, drinking more than 1 or 2 (or maybe 3 or 4 for some of the larger men out there) in one sitting, more than once every couple of weeks can lead to serious set backs with weight loss.

2) Specifically to your case AwMyLoLo, I have some questions. 1st, what is your Body Fat %? 2nd, why are you combo training every day (cardio and weights same day)?

With less than 10 lbs to lose, this should be in the forefront of your concerns. Put it this way, you could probably lose that last 5 or even 10 lbs and maybe still have some pudge hanging around, because once you get down into that "normal" range, it's not about weight any more, it's about body fat. For most of us the transition from "I need to lose weight" to "I need to lower my body fat %" is a difficult one.
Who cares what you weigh, it's how much of that weight is body fat that really matters, I'll say this, at
5' 6", you could be 120 or 130 or even 135 and still look spectacular if you get your body fat to lean mass ratios correct.

Generally I usually tell people that the last five to ten pounds takes a lot more dedication than 45 minutes a day, 3 days a week, it takes more like 1 and a half hours a day 6 days a week. AND (and this is big), you need to keep very good track of your diet, VERY good. When I say that I mean, not only just calories, but when you have those calories, what macro nutrients are in each meal, and what your total macros are every day. Also, when you're talking about being at a healthy weight, and trying to drop body fat, you need to eat very close to your maintenance calories, and that INCLUDES exercise calories. Put it this way, 250 calorie deficit is about the maximum I would recommend, anything more than that and you're probably causing your metabolism to run in an inefficient manner to some degree (depending on how tolerant your specific body is to caloric deficits).

Lastly, On the subject of exercise, straight moderate cardio and regular weight training probably isn't good enough at this point. We're talking about you being at a point where your body feels comfortable where it is, jogging a couple of miles and doing 5 to 10 isolation weight exercises 3 times a week with moderate weights probably isn't going to do a heck of a lot more than maintain your current physique. You need to do some serious work, some kind of boot camp, some kind of hard core circuit training, and/or some hypertrophy training. That's the only way to really body sculpt. And lets face it, a 1/2 inch of pudge around the middle isn't a lot, in order to remove it, you're going to have to battle the body, it's not going to want to give up that fat, it's your body's security blanket, so you need to tear away that blanket by force, literally work your body hard enough and long enough so that it has no choice but to use up those energy stores.

Hopefully this will help you. I know some of this doesn't sound easy, and lets face it, it's NOT easy, but then again, if it was easy, everyone would be ripped, and nobody would have any fat around their middle. You gotta work HARD to have abs and see them, and to lose that little bit of left over gut.

For specific question or if you need some suggestions on workout routines or anything, you can PM me, I'm always happy to lend a hand. But remember, everyone's different, some tweaking will almost definitely have to occur to get it right for you.

-Banks

First, thank you so much for taking the time to give me your input.

1. I know alcohol is evil. :devil: Which is why I have gone from drinking 3-4 nights a week to 2. Now I plan on trying to cut out another and only have drinks one night a week. Not just because of the empty calories and the way it is metabolized, but because it really is pointless and unhealthy.

2. I have absolutely no idea what my body fat % is - how do I find out? I do cardio and weights every session because I like to get really warmed up and stretch before I lift weights. Is that bad? Plus, I have a really hard time doing more cardio than that. I read people saying they do cardio for 45 minutes to an hour, or 5-8 miles a day and it blows my mind! Plus, since I am so close to my goal weight, I was thinking that I needed to lift weights to tone instead of focusing on doing cardio to burn more calories.

I got the 5-7 more pounds to lose number just because seeing the difference from the 10 pounds that I have lost, it "looks like" I could lose another 5-7. I agree with you completely that it is not about the number. I guess I am trying to figure out the right thing for me to do get my lean mass to body fat to the right ratio, I just didn't know exactly how to put it. Obviously since I don't even know what my BF% is now, I don't know what it should be or how I find out or the best way to get there.

What kind of workout routine would you recommend as far as bootcamp or circuit training? What is hypertrophy?

This doesnt sound easy but it is exciting to me. I still feel like I am completely out of shape, and I really really want to get into shape. I need to get into a more strenuous workout routine.

As far as nutrition, I won't ask you to explain all about macro nutrients, I will try to do some research myself. Basically I just try to make good decisions on my foods. But as far as the calorie intake, I plan on starting to eat what MFP recommends as my maintenance calories, which is 1680, and eat my exercise calories too. Thanks again so much for your advice!

SHBoss1673

First, thank you so much for taking the time to give me your input.

1. I know alcohol is evil. :devil: Which is why I have gone from drinking 3-4 nights a week to 2. Now I plan on trying to cut out another and only have drinks one night a week. Not just because of the empty calories and the way it is metabolized, but because it really is pointless and unhealthy.

2. I have absolutely no idea what my body fat % is - how do I find out? I do cardio and weights every session because I like to get really warmed up and stretch before I lift

3 ways (basically). 1 is by asking a Personal Trainer or some other professional that has training to give you a BF% test, they use these calipers and pinch various parts of the body and take measurements, BUT depending on the person, there can be a very large variance in error. Another way is to use either a bod pod (go to bodpod.com to find one near you) or a hydrostatic test, these tests usually have between a 1 and 2% margin for error (pretty good), or 3 you can get a DEXA test done, these use x-rays and are EXTREMELY accurate, but very expensive to have done (usually 100 bucks or more). For adult women, a Body fat % of 13-15 is considered excellent (like pro athlete excellent), 16 - 18 is considered very good, 19 - 22 is considered good, 23 to 26 is considered normal, and 27- 30 is considered safe but a little above normal, above 30 usually means you're moving into the unhealthy zone (obviously the higher you are the worse off you are). These numbers are for women between 18 and about 45 or so, they skew a little up for women over 45. Also, women having under 13% BF are considered to be unhealthy as the body needs a certain amount of body fat.

I got the 5-7 more pounds to lose number just because seeing the difference from the 10 pounds that I have lost, it "looks like" I could lose another 5-7. I agree with you completely that it is not about the number. I guess I am trying to figure out the right

Right, actually getting a BF% test done will go a long way towards figuring this out. I always say to people, once you're healthy, you need to stop focusing on weight. That doesn't mean weight isn't important, it just means that you're weight isn't holding you back any more, now you can start doing the nasty, hard stuff that transforms you from a recreational person into an athlete. Everyone can be an athlete, and contrary to popular opinion, it has way more to do with your core than anything else, as your core determines how good your balance and transitional speed are (and for most sports, balance and transition from stop to go, or forward to back, or side to side are the most important aspects).

What kind of workout routine would you recommend as far as bootcamp or circuit training? What is hypertrophy?
This doesnt sound easy but it is exciting to me. I still feel like I am completely out of shape, and I really really want to get into shape. I need to get into a more strenuous workout routine.

Ahh, there are a million different boot camps out there. It doesn't really matter which one you do, whether it's the insanity DVD's (supposed to be AWESOME, but expensive), or some local trainer that kicks your *kitten* (if you're into that), or just you, putting together a grueling workout that really kicks it up 3 or 4 notches, doesn't really matter, it's the intensity and diversity of the exercise that really helps. I'm talking hard core, sweat literally pouring off you, muscles so sore you have to crawl to the shower, the world swimming in front of you type routines that you almost can't walk away from, do 2 or 3 of those a week and 2 months later you're body fat will be down dramatically (unless you're already IN top shape, then it just drops a little )

Hypertrophy is a type of weight training that focuses on muscle size and density. It may or may not be for you, but it's one path to take (if you have no muscle definition now, it might be worth looking into initially, just to give you some "shape", but otherwise probably is more something you do later on in your "career" to give you more lines and definition.) Like, you know how Jillian from TBL has great arm and shoulder definition for a woman? At some point I'm sure she's done some good failure weight training, this builds muscle size and causes her biceps and triceps to "show" a little, hypertrophy doesn't necessarally mean "bulking up" (although it can for many men), it means just giving the muscle a little size so that you can actually see it. For some that can mean A LOT of size, for others, just "enough" size.

AwMyLoLo

First, thank you so much for taking the time to give me your input.

1. I know alcohol is evil. :devil: Which is why I have gone from drinking 3-4 nights a week to 2. Now I plan on trying to cut out another and only have drinks one night a week. Not just because of the empty calories and the way it is metabolized, but because it really is pointless and unhealthy.

2. I have absolutely no idea what my body fat % is - how do I find out? I do cardio and weights every session because I like to get really warmed up and stretch before I lift

3 ways (basically). 1 is by asking a Personal Trainer or some other professional that has training to give you a BF% test, they use these calipers and pinch various parts of the body and take measurements, BUT depending on the person, there can be a very large variance in error. Another way is to use either a bod pod (go to bodpod.com to find one near you) or a hydrostatic test, these tests usually have between a 1 and 2% margin for error (pretty good), or 3 you can get a DEXA test done, these use x-rays and are EXTREMELY accurate, but very expensive to have done (usually 100 bucks or more). For adult women, a Body fat % of 13-15 is considered excellent (like pro athlete excellent), 16 - 18 is considered very good, 19 - 22 is considered good, 23 to 26 is considered normal, and 27- 30 is considered safe but a little above normal, above 30 usually means you're moving into the unhealthy zone (obviously the higher you are the worse off you are). These numbers are for women between 18 and about 45 or so, they skew a little up for women over 45. Also, women having under 13% BF are considered to be unhealthy as the body needs a certain amount of body fat.

I got the 5-7 more pounds to lose number just because seeing the difference from the 10 pounds that I have lost, it "looks like" I could lose another 5-7. I agree with you completely that it is not about the number. I guess I am trying to figure out the right

Right, actually getting a BF% test done will go a long way towards figuring this out. I always say to people, once you're healthy, you need to stop focusing on weight. That doesn't mean weight isn't important, it just means that you're weight isn't holding you back any more, now you can start doing the nasty, hard stuff that transforms you from a recreational person into an athlete. Everyone can be an athlete, and contrary to popular opinion, it has way more to do with your core than anything else, as your core determines how good your balance and transitional speed are (and for most sports, balance and transition from stop to go, or forward to back, or side to side are the most important aspects).

What kind of workout routine would you recommend as far as bootcamp or circuit training? What is hypertrophy?
This doesnt sound easy but it is exciting to me. I still feel like I am completely out of shape, and I really really want to get into shape. I need to get into a more strenuous workout routine.

Ahh, there are a million different boot camps out there. It doesn't really matter which one you do, whether it's the insanity DVD's (supposed to be AWESOME, but expensive), or some local trainer that kicks your *kitten* (if you're into that), or just you, putting together a grueling workout that really kicks it up 3 or 4 notches, doesn't really matter, it's the intensity and diversity of the exercise that really helps. I'm talking hard core, sweat literally pouring off you, muscles so sore you have to crawl to the shower, the world swimming in front of you type routines that you almost can't walk away from, do 2 or 3 of those a week and 2 months later you're body fat will be down dramatically (unless you're already IN top shape, then it just drops a little )

Hypertrophy is a type of weight training that focuses on muscle size and density. It may or may not be for you, but it's one path to take (if you have no muscle definition now, it might be worth looking into initially, just to give you some "shape", but otherwise probably is more something you do later on in your "career" to give you more lines and definition.) Like, you know how Jillian from TBL has great arm and shoulder definition for a woman? At some point I'm sure she's done some good failure weight training, this builds muscle size and causes her biceps and triceps to "show" a little, hypertrophy doesn't necessarally mean "bulking up" (although it can for many men), it means just giving the muscle a little size so that you can actually see it. For some that can mean A LOT of size, for others, just "enough" size.

OK. Expensive DVDs and personal trainers are out of the question for me (for now at least). I have a yearly membership to a hole in the wall gym in my town that I need to get my money's worth out of!

Why is it not okay to do both cardio and weights in the same day? How do you work out for an hour and a half doing just cardio? How on earth would I be able to eat my maintenance calories plus whatever crazy amount I would burn doing 1.5 hour of cardio?!

On a weight training day, is that when I should incorporate the circuit training? Would that be like, lifing (using free weights or machines) for 2 minutes then moving on to jump rope for 2 minutes, then doing the next weight station for 2 minutes then jumping jacks for 2 minutes, etc...? If I did this kind of routine for 1 or 1.5 hour 3 days a week and then cardio for 45 min to 1 hour 3 days a week, is that what you're talking about?

SHBoss1673

OK. Expensive DVDs and personal trainers are out of the question for me (for now at least). I have a yearly membership to a hole in the wall gym in my town that I need to get my money's worth out of!

Why is it not okay to do both cardio and weights in the same day? How do you work out for an hour and a half doing just cardio? How on earth would I be able to eat my maintenance calories plus whatever crazy amount I would burn doing 1.5 hour of cardio?!

On a weight training day, is that when I should incorporate the circuit training? Would that be like, lifing (using free weights or machines) for 2 minutes then moving on to jump rope for 2 minutes, then doing the next weight station for 2 minutes then jumping jacks for 2 minutes, etc...? If I did this kind of routine for 1 or 1.5 hour 3 days a week and then cardio for 45 min to 1 hour 3 days a week, is that what you're talking about?

It's not that it's not ok to do both cardio and weight training in the same day, it's just that that is more for people trying to compromise, and once you get to a certain level, you really need to focus on specific parts of training. I.E. you can't gain muscle while in caloric deficit, so weight training is more about just keeping your muscles in use and working and keeping bones strong. Put it this way, cardio is better for burning fat than weight training (both will do it, but cardio does it better).

Also if you do cardio (10 minutes is fine, I'm talking if you did 1/2 an hour) first before weight training, your sabotaging your weight training to a degree. Glycogen depletion will limit the amount of "bang for your buck" you'll get from weight training. While this isn't a big deal for cardio (as you almost never train to glycogen depletion during cardio, even extremely intense cardio, for more than a few seconds at a time), not having the energy to push to failure in weight training really reduces the amount of "good" you receive from the weight training.

As to how to do an hour to an hour and a half of cardio in a day, I don't know what to tell you, it's just something you have to learn to enjoy if you want to have that low Body fat % and not just be skinny but be trim and have muscle definition, there's no way around this. That doesn't mean you have to do it all at once, if more than a 1/2 hour of cardio is mind numbing for you, then split it into 2 1/2 hour sessions, for instance, I did 35 minutes of hard running today, and tonight I'll do 30 minutes on the heavy bag (which is INSANE cardio by the way), then 10 minutes of core.

The point is, get creative, you aren't limited to the gym machines. Find stuff you enjoy, swimming, jumping rope, riding a bike, plyometrics (I LOVE plyos, google plyometrics for more), specific training routines (there are lots of great training routines online, google boot camp routines and you'll find plenty). Funny, I do a 4 machine circuit in the gym sometimes, 15 minutes on the mountain climber, 15 minutes on the elliptical, 15 on the tredmill, and 15 on the spinning bike. All of them I push myself, but since each one has a different primary muscle movement, It isn't so repetetive and boring, and I can look forward to that end period in 15minutes instead of a full hour. Plus a good ipod really helps

ok time to drive home. Have a good one.

keiko

OK. Expensive DVDs and personal trainers are out of the question for me (for now at least). I have a yearly membership to a hole in the wall gym in my town that I need to get my money's worth out of!

Why is it not okay to do both cardio and weights in the same day? How do you work out for an hour and a half doing just cardio? How on earth would I be able to eat my maintenance calories plus whatever crazy amount I would burn doing 1.5 hour of cardio?!

On a weight training day, is that when I should incorporate the circuit training? Would that be like, lifing (using free weights or machines) for 2 minutes then moving on to jump rope for 2 minutes, then doing the next weight station for 2 minutes then jumping jacks for 2 minutes, etc...? If I did this kind of routine for 1 or 1.5 hour 3 days a week and then cardio for 45 min to 1 hour 3 days a week, is that what you're talking about?

It's not that it's not ok to do both cardio and weight training in the same day, it's just that that is more for people trying to compromise, and once you get to a certain level, you really need to focus on specific parts of training. I.E. you can't gain muscle while in caloric deficit, so weight training is more about just keeping your muscles in use and working and keeping bones strong. Put it this way, cardio is better for burning fat than weight training (both will do it, but cardio does it better).

Also if you do cardio (10 minutes is fine, I'm talking if you did 1/2 an hour) first before weight training, your sabotaging your weight training to a degree. Glycogen depletion will limit the amount of "bang for your buck" you'll get from weight training. While this isn't a big deal for cardio (as you almost never train to glycogen depletion during cardio, even extremely intense cardio, for more than a few seconds at a time), not having the energy to push to failure in weight training really reduces the amount of "good" you receive from the weight training.

As to how to do an hour to an hour and a half of cardio in a day, I don't know what to tell you, it's just something you have to learn to enjoy if you want to have that low Body fat % and not just be skinny but be trim and have muscle definition, there's no way around this. That doesn't mean you have to do it all at once, if more than a 1/2 hour of cardio is mind numbing for you, then split it into 2 1/2 hour sessions, for instance, I did 35 minutes of hard running today, and tonight I'll do 30 minutes on the heavy bag (which is INSANE cardio by the way), then 10 minutes of core.

The point is, get creative, you aren't limited to the gym machines. Find stuff you enjoy, swimming, jumping rope, riding a bike, plyometrics (I LOVE plyos, google plyometrics for more), specific training routines (there are lots of great training routines online, google boot camp routines and you'll find plenty). Funny, I do a 4 machine circuit in the gym sometimes, 15 minutes on the mountain climber, 15 minutes on the elliptical, 15 on the tredmill, and 15 on the spinning bike. All of them I push myself, but since each one has a different primary muscle movement, It isn't so repetetive and boring, and I can look forward to that end period in 15minutes instead of a full hour. Plus a good ipod really helps

ok time to drive home. Have a good one.

Thanks for answering Awmylolo's post. I'm always inspired when I read your posts. I'm off to search for a new work out and feeling good about upping my cardio. I'm also going to look for someone to check my BF%. I've looked before for the bodpod and there is nothing anywhere around me. But calipers will be a start.
Thanks again, hope you had a good ride home:flowerforyou:

AwMyLoLo

OK. Expensive DVDs and personal trainers are out of the question for me (for now at least). I have a yearly membership to a hole in the wall gym in my town that I need to get my money's worth out of!

Why is it not okay to do both cardio and weights in the same day? How do you work out for an hour and a half doing just cardio? How on earth would I be able to eat my maintenance calories plus whatever crazy amount I would burn doing 1.5 hour of cardio?!

On a weight training day, is that when I should incorporate the circuit training? Would that be like, lifing (using free weights or machines) for 2 minutes then moving on to jump rope for 2 minutes, then doing the next weight station for 2 minutes then jumping jacks for 2 minutes, etc...? If I did this kind of routine for 1 or 1.5 hour 3 days a week and then cardio for 45 min to 1 hour 3 days a week, is that what you're talking about?

It's not that it's not ok to do both cardio and weight training in the same day, it's just that that is more for people trying to compromise, and once you get to a certain level, you really need to focus on specific parts of training. I.E. you can't gain muscle while in caloric deficit, so weight training is more about just keeping your muscles in use and working and keeping bones strong. Put it this way, cardio is better for burning fat than weight training (both will do it, but cardio does it better).

Also if you do cardio (10 minutes is fine, I'm talking if you did 1/2 an hour) first before weight training, your sabotaging your weight training to a degree. Glycogen depletion will limit the amount of "bang for your buck" you'll get from weight training. While this isn't a big deal for cardio (as you almost never train to glycogen depletion during cardio, even extremely intense cardio, for more than a few seconds at a time), not having the energy to push to failure in weight training really reduces the amount of "good" you receive from the weight training.

As to how to do an hour to an hour and a half of cardio in a day, I don't know what to tell you, it's just something you have to learn to enjoy if you want to have that low Body fat % and not just be skinny but be trim and have muscle definition, there's no way around this. That doesn't mean you have to do it all at once, if more than a 1/2 hour of cardio is mind numbing for you, then split it into 2 1/2 hour sessions, for instance, I did 35 minutes of hard running today, and tonight I'll do 30 minutes on the heavy bag (which is INSANE cardio by the way), then 10 minutes of core.

The point is, get creative, you aren't limited to the gym machines. Find stuff you enjoy, swimming, jumping rope, riding a bike, plyometrics (I LOVE plyos, google plyometrics for more), specific training routines (there are lots of great training routines online, google boot camp routines and you'll find plenty). Funny, I do a 4 machine circuit in the gym sometimes, 15 minutes on the mountain climber, 15 minutes on the elliptical, 15 on the tredmill, and 15 on the spinning bike. All of them I push myself, but since each one has a different primary muscle movement, It isn't so repetetive and boring, and I can look forward to that end period in 15minutes instead of a full hour. Plus a good ipod really helps

ok time to drive home. Have a good one.

Thanks for answering Awmylolo's post. I'm always inspired when I read your posts. I'm off to search for a new work out and feeling good about upping my cardio. I'm also going to look for someone to check my BF%. I've looked before for the bodpod and there is nothing anywhere around me. But calipers will be a start.
Thanks again, hope you had a good ride home:flowerforyou:

Isn't he just great? :happy: Thanks again Banks!

SHBoss1673

Welcome guys. I hope this helps.

cardigirl

I have a question about overtraining? I've been trying to get 45 minutes of cardio in 5 times a week, split between the stair master and the AMT machine, but after reading here, it seems like that might not be enough time? I've never gone over the 45 minute mark, but instead, have done "intervals" of up and down intensity to increase (or so I thought) the effectiveness of the workout.

I understand that longer cardio builds more endurance, etc. just not sure how the heck I'm gonna up my workouts to include 90 minutes of cardio most days.

At what point does overtraining become an issue?

SHBoss1673

I have a question about overtraining? I've been trying to get 45 minutes of cardio in 5 times a week, split between the stair master and the AMT machine, but after reading here, it seems like that might not be enough time? I've never gone over the 45 minute mark, but instead, have done "intervals" of up and down intensity to increase (or so I thought) the effectiveness of the workout.

I understand that longer cardio builds more endurance, etc. just not sure how the heck I'm gonna up my workouts to include 90 minutes of cardio most days.

At what point does overtraining become an issue?

this is a very individualized concept. In other words, what might be too much for me, might be not enough for you. This happens for a variety of reasons including muscle size, ratio of fast twitch to slow twitch muscle (different for everyone, it's why 2 people can have the exact same measurements and muscle density and 1 person be a good sprinter, and another be a good distance runner), genetics, VO2 Max, body fat %, lean muscle mass, diet type...etc. Essentially overtraining is an issue when you start to notice physical athletic plateaus, start feeling tired and fatigued, and your feelings toward the exercise change. In many cases the person's physical stamina begins to actually go backwards.

BUT (and remember, this is just My Humble Opinion) as I said in the above posts. This post is about someone who is trying to change body fat % and transform their body into a athlete's body.
For most people, just trying to get to a healthy range, 45 minutes of cardio 4 or 5 days a week is fine (although I would add at least 2 weight training days in there, and separate weight training and cardio as they fight each other for resources when you perform them at the same time making both less effective).
We're talking about really getting rid of those last few pounds, the really tough stuff. Which requires a higher degree of dedication than just normal fitness training.

SIDE NOTE: Having those last few pounds make very little difference in your health, having them won't statistically increase any health related issues; and you're pretty much the only one that will notice!

You're going to have to start thinking in terms of a stricter diet, a more rigorous exercise program, targeted goals with specific short, medium, and long term results.

And of course, you should really read up on what to expect, because the gains people make on these routines are far smaller than just straight weight loss, not as noticeable (especially to yourself), and require a lot of patience.

I'll be the first to admit, this type of routine isn't for everyone, it requires strong will and the ability to look your friends, spouse, family right in the eyes and say "NO!" to things they want to do and not feel bad about it. It requires being able to take those looks from jealous loved ones and freaked out acquaintances and let them roll off your back.

cardigirl

Thanks for the reply, Boss. You are right, it is highly individualized.

I am trying to lose the last little bit myself. The last time my BF% was assessed it was at 22% and I have been trying to get to 18% with a stricter diet, and adding in sessions with a trainer that focus on plyometrics one day and upper body the other session. In addition, I do sets weight training 4 days a week, but I do that after the cardio, something you said kind of fights against each other. Honestly, I guess I'm going to start going to the gym at 5am to get it all in before work, because I truly cannot get to the gym twice a day.

You're an inspiration! :flowerforyou: Thanks!

SHBoss1673

Thanks for the reply, Boss. You are right, it is highly individualized.

I am trying to lose the last little bit myself. The last time my BF% was assessed it was at 22% and I have been trying to get to 18% with a stricter diet, and adding in sessions with a trainer that focus on plyometrics one day and upper body the other session. In addition, I do sets weight training 4 days a week, but I do that after the cardio, something you said kind of fights against each other. Honestly, I guess I'm going to start going to the gym at 5am to get it all in before work, because I truly cannot get to the gym twice a day.

You're an inspiration! :flowerforyou: Thanks!

found a short article in FitnessRX magazine the other day that sums up the idea of cardio and Weight training close togther nicely. Here it is. (from FitnessRX November 2009 issue)

Endurance and Strength Workouts Interfere With Each Other

The genetic and biochemical mechanisms of adaptation to weight training and endurance training are different. A review of liturature by John Hawley from Australia concluded that mixing training methods causes interference in physiological adaptation. High-intensity muscle contractions, which occur during weight training, promote muscle strength and growth. Low-intensity, prolonged exercise, such as distance running or cycling, builds muscle cell mitochondria (cell energy centers) and promotes endurance. Endurance workouts activate a biochemical pathway linked to improved muscle endurance (AMPK-PGC-1 ALPHA) and depress a pathway linked to muscle hypertrophy (Akt-m TOR-S6K). The reverse occured following weight training. Doing different types of exercise in close proximity (e.g., weight training followed closely by endurance training) interferes with the adaptation to both types of exercise. People adapt to varying types of training best when they do them on separate days, or at least different times of the day. This is important information for gym rats, power athletes, and endurance athletes. (Applied Physiology Nutrition Metabolism, 34: 355-361, 2009)

cardigirl

Thanks for the article. Looks like it's best to allow yourself some rest time between the cardio and the weight stuff. Hmmmm. Gonna have to think about how to do that, if I'm serious about getting to 18%.

AwMyLoLo

It makes sense. I think I will still warm up with a mile before my weight lifting sessions, no real harm, right?

Also, on weight lifting days, should I concentrate on upper body one day and lower body the next time, or combine them?

I worked out a routine where I would do: Monday - Cardio/abs/pushups, Tuesday - upper body with abs and/or back extensions between sets, Wednesday - Cardio/abs/pushups, Thursday - Lower body with abs and/or back extensions between sets, Friday - OFF, Saturday - Cardio, Sunday - OFF

Cardio would be 45 minutes trying to work myself up to longer. And the lifting would be 3 sets of 12-15 reps of 5 different exercises (alternating weekly), with the abs and back inbetween sets.

Sound okay? :huh:

SHBoss1673

It makes sense. I think I will still warm up with a mile before my weight lifting sessions, no real harm, right?

Also, on weight lifting days, should I concentrate on upper body one day and lower body the next time, or combine them?

I worked out a routine where I would do: Monday - Cardio/abs/pushups, Tuesday - upper body with abs and/or back extensions between sets, Wednesday - Cardio/abs/pushups, Thursday - Lower body with abs and/or back extensions between sets, Friday - OFF, Saturday - Cardio, Sunday - OFF

Cardio would be 45 minutes trying to work myself up to longer. And the lifting would be 3 sets of 12-15 reps of 5 different exercises (alternating weekly), with the abs and back inbetween sets.

Sound okay? :huh:

you can do it either way (either focus on one muscle group one day and another another day or do full body twice a week). Like right now I'm doing full body twice a week with 2 days in between (1 day HIIT, 1 day long Cardio), but I used to do it the other way, and about a month from now I'll go back to that (change the routine up).
The only major difference is with full body, you work out a little longer on each session, so I usually only do 2 sets of each routine with higher weight and lower reps per set. That's a personal choice but...

As too your routine, I don't see why that's a problem. Although, 6 days between workouts is a little long, you probably want to use a 10 day schedule instead of 7 (I know this feels weird, but you get used to it) and do each major muscle group every 4 or 5 days, anything more than 5 days and the muscle starts to lose definition (a LITTLE, it's not a tragedy, but it is something to take note of)

AwMyLoLo

It makes sense. I think I will still warm up with a mile before my weight lifting sessions, no real harm, right?

Also, on weight lifting days, should I concentrate on upper body one day and lower body the next time, or combine them?

I worked out a routine where I would do: Monday - Cardio/abs/pushups, Tuesday - upper body with abs and/or back extensions between sets, Wednesday - Cardio/abs/pushups, Thursday - Lower body with abs and/or back extensions between sets, Friday - OFF, Saturday - Cardio, Sunday - OFF

Cardio would be 45 minutes trying to work myself up to longer. And the lifting would be 3 sets of 12-15 reps of 5 different exercises (alternating weekly), with the abs and back inbetween sets.

Sound okay? :huh:

you can do it either way (either focus on one muscle group one day and another another day or do full body twice a week). Like right now I'm doing full body twice a week with 2 days in between (1 day HIIT, 1 day long Cardio), but I used to do it the other way, and about a month from now I'll go back to that (change the routine up).
The only major difference is with full body, you work out a little longer on each session, so I usually only do 2 sets of each routine with higher weight and lower reps per set. That's a personal choice but...

As too your routine, I don't see why that's a problem. Although, 6 days between workouts is a little long, you probably want to use a 10 day schedule instead of 7 (I know this feels weird, but you get used to it) and do each major muscle group every 4 or 5 days, anything more than 5 days and the muscle starts to lose definition (a LITTLE, it's not a tragedy, but it is something to take note of)

ahh, I see! I hadn't thought about that. Thanks again!