Can't build muscle on a deficit?

small_ninja

Ok, so I understand the science behind building muscle, but I've been strength training for a few months now and getting stronger; I'm lifting heavier each week or so. However, since I've been eating at a calorie deficit, theoretically I shouldn't be gaining new muscle tissue. I was just wondering if anyone knew how that works? How can you gain strength without gaining muscle? I find it quite puzzling. Is it a question of efficiency? Are my muscles simply becoming more efficient?

MoreBean13

Ok, so I understand the science behind building muscle, but I've been strength training for a few months now and getting stronger; I'm lifting heavier each week or so. However, since I've been eating at a calorie deficit, theoretically I shouldn't be gaining new muscle tissue. I was just wondering if anyone knew how that works? How can you gain strength without gaining muscle? I find it quite puzzling. Is it a question of efficiency? Are my muscles simply becoming more efficient?

It's called neuromuscular adaptations. The muscle fibers were there, but you weren't using them. As you strength train, for a while, the gains you make are from your nervous system learning how to fire up more muscle fibers to do the job. It looks and feels like getting more muscle, you're just not actually gaining any new muscle tissue.

ETA: I've posted this before, but it shows a good clear depiction of training progression. This is not showing training at a deficit- but regular training. You can see that the neuromuscular adaptations are the bulk of the changes in the beginning whether you're on a deficit or not.

ninerbuff

Ok, so I understand the science behind building muscle, but I've been strength training for a few months now and getting stronger; I'm lifting heavier each week or so. However, since I've been eating at a calorie deficit, theoretically I shouldn't be gaining new muscle tissue. I was just wondering if anyone knew how that works? How can you gain strength without gaining muscle? I find it quite puzzling. Is it a question of efficiency? Are my muscles simply becoming more efficient?

It's called neuromuscular adaptations. The muscle fibers were there, but you weren't using them. As you strength train, for a while, the gains you make are from your nervous system learning how to fire up more muscle fibers to do the job. It looks and feels like getting more muscle, you're just not actually gaining any new muscle tissue.

EXCELLENT explanation. Good job.

A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
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professorhuggins

i've wondered the same thing...it makes sense that you can't increase in overall mass in a calorie deficit. But it seems to me that as I have lost 40lbs that I'm much stronger than I was three or four months ago. How is not possible to gain muscle mass, just at a slower rate than you are burning fat mass?

MoreBean13

It is a little confusing. I watch the biggest loser and those people are on deficits but look pretty muscular to me by the end of it.

Very heavy people have a lot of muscle underneath the fat- it takes a lot of strength just to perform normal daily activities like walking around, standing up, sitting down, etc- for someone who is carrying 400lbs. As they lose the fat the muscle is more exposed and you can see it better. The diets those people are on, they've likely LOST quite a bit of muscle from where they've started, but they LOOK muscular because you can see it without all the excess fat.

amruden

It's called neuromuscular adaptations. The muscle fibers were there, but you weren't using them. As you strength train, for a while, the gains you make are from your nervous system learning how to fire up more muscle fibers to do the job. It looks and feels like getting more muscle, you're just not actually gaining any new muscle tissue.




So would this be considered "toning"?

y0mbo

For someone trying to lose fat and gain muscle, what's the right approach based on this information?

small_ninja

It's called neuromuscular adaptations. The muscle fibers were there, but you weren't using them. As you strength train, for a while, the gains you make are from your nervous system learning how to fire up more muscle fibers to do the job. It looks and feels like getting more muscle, you're just not actually gaining any new muscle tissue.

ETA: I've posted this before, but it shows a good clear depiction of training progression. This is not showing training at a deficit- but regular training. You can see that the neuromuscular adaptations are the bulk of the changes in the beginning whether you're on a deficit or not.

Oooh, thank you! That does make sense
Curiosity = satisfied

MoreBean13

It's called neuromuscular adaptations. The muscle fibers were there, but you weren't using them. As you strength train, for a while, the gains you make are from your nervous system learning how to fire up more muscle fibers to do the job. It looks and feels like getting more muscle, you're just not actually gaining any new muscle tissue.




So would this be considered "toning"?

"Toning" has no clear definition to my knowledge- it's a mish mash of losing fat, strengthening muscle, trying to get muscle to look contracted when at rest, and whatever women's health magazines feel like using it to describe- but yes, generally I think this is what people are actually aiming for when they want to tone.

amruden

I think TONING is a fluff word.

However, this comes pretty close to what people are thinking.

MoreBean13

For someone trying to lose fat and gain muscle, what's the right approach based on this information?

I hope Ninerbuff comes back to answer this question because that's his bread and butter- and certainly not mine.

To the best of my knowledge you cut (lose the fat) and then bulk (eat at a surplus to gain muscle along with some more fat) and then cut again. You should aim to preserve muscle through strength training and eating adequate protein through the whole process, though. Like I said though, not my specialty.

vv---this guy know's what he's talking about!

heybales

For someone trying to lose fat and gain muscle, what's the right approach based on this information?

To do it very carefully if you really want to attempt it.
Deficit can't be too great, must be lifting heavy, must be eating enough protein.
Can be worth it.
Not talking about gaining the kind of muscle for bulking either, just slightly more muscle for accomplishing goals.

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/447514-athletes-can-gain-muscle-while-losing-fat-on-deficit-diet

Long_and_Lean

thank you for this thread! You've confirmed what I've always thought.

Spanaval

For someone trying to lose fat and gain muscle, what's the right approach based on this information?

I hope Ninerbuff comes back to answer this question because that's his bread and butter- and certainly not mine.

To the best of my knowledge you cut (lose the fat) and then bulk (eat at a surplus to gain muscle along with some more fat) and then cut again. You should aim to preserve muscle through strength training and eating adequate protein through the whole process, though. Like I said though, not my specialty.

vv---this guy know's what he's talking about!

Yup, you have to pick one. You can either cut fat or put on muscle, but not do both at the same time (not to a huge degree, anyway).

kdeaux1959

I am no expert on the matter. Of course it is soon to be a moot point for me since I am getting closer to the end of my deficit phase. I think it actually CAN be possible to gain some muscle mass on a mild deficit IF you maintain a high level of protein in your diet and cut the fat. I agree, however, that it is difficult at best to gain muscle mass on a deficit and that if your deficit is high, it simply is not going to happen... or worse.. You could LOSE muscle mass.

Cait_Sidhe

It's called neuromuscular adaptations. The muscle fibers were there, but you weren't using them. As you strength train, for a while, the gains you make are from your nervous system learning how to fire up more muscle fibers to do the job. It looks and feels like getting more muscle, you're just not actually gaining any new muscle tissue.

ETA: I've posted this before, but it shows a good clear depiction of training progression. This is not showing training at a deficit- but regular training. You can see that the neuromuscular adaptations are the bulk of the changes in the beginning whether you're on a deficit or not.

*applause* This may be the best response I've read. Ever.

ninerbuff

For someone trying to lose fat and gain muscle, what's the right approach based on this information?

It's quite difficult to do both at the same time. One requires calorie deficit, while the other calorie surplus. Even if you're nutrition, exercise, and rest were spot on, it would still be difficult. That's why it's much easier to approach each individually.

A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Sarauk2sf

For someone trying to lose fat and gain muscle, what's the right approach based on this information?

I hope Ninerbuff comes back to answer this question because that's his bread and butter- and certainly not mine.

To the best of my knowledge you cut (lose the fat) and then bulk (eat at a surplus to gain muscle along with some more fat) and then cut again. You should aim to preserve muscle through strength training and eating adequate protein through the whole process, though. Like I said though, not my specialty.

vv---this guy know's what he's talking about!

Yup, you have to pick one. You can either cut fat or put on muscle, but not do both at the same time (not to a huge degree, anyway).

^^this.

Sarauk2sf

For someone trying to lose fat and gain muscle, what's the right approach based on this information?

It's quite difficult to do both at the same time. One requires calorie deficit, while the other calorie surplus. Even if you're nutrition, exercise, and rest were spot on, it would still be difficult. That's why it's much easier to approach each individually.

A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

^^and this