Going from Cut to Gain for Muscle Mass

qballjr13

So I hit my goal of losing 20 pounds and have now decided to up my calories again and try to pack on some lean muscle. One week ago today I changed my diary to “maintain” and have started a much more intense workout program. In one week I gained 1.6lbs. I know that I didn’t put 1 ½ lbs of muscle on in a week. I assume some water weight, maybe my body readjusting to eating more? I started German Volume Training (http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/luis13.htm ) this week and I am only doing it twice a week, which is all I really have time for. I took the leg day and combined it with arms and shoulders into one day and then chest, back and abs into the second day.

I am scared that my hard work to lose the 20 originally is going to be wasted and that I am going to pack it all back on and won’t be as muscle. I took all of my measurement prior to starting the new program so I should be able to determine if my stomach and waist are growing or its muscle.

I am just looking for people who have gone from a true calorie deficit cut to a mass building calorie count to confirm some of my ideas. Any tips? I am all ears, ready to listen and learn.

dlwyatt82

From what I've read, as long as you continue to lift heavy, you'll be fine. Some of what you gain will be fat, some of it will be muscle, and then you just switch back to cutting the fat. You do need to eat higher than just the "maintain" level of calories though. I'm not certain how much of a surplus you need, but there does need to be one.

qballjr13

A little more info....My cut was around 1700 calories and right now I am eating at almost 2500 and closer to 3000 on my workout days.

Acg67

http://jcdfitness.com/2009/10/the-former-fat-boy-syndrome/

http://jcdfitness.com/2012/03/former-fat-boy-syndrome-hangups/

jake_rrr

I used the Harris Benedict Equation to find out how much I should be eating and added about 500-700 calories from my maintain intake. I am sitting around 3200 calories a day, and gaining around a pound a week. I work out 3-4 times a week. I can see a big difference in muscle growth. I have been doing this for about 4-5 weeks. As long as you are eating correctly you should be fine. Also make sure you are eating a high protein diet. I think my split is 45% carbs/ 30% protein/ 25% fat. I did a custom goal in MFP to reflect those percents and it calculated how much of each I needed to take in.

Nutrition1st

It's not the weights, it's the diet. Part I of my story was I went from 300 lbs to @ 170 lbs. Part II was I put on 25 lbs of muscle next. I increased my protein and carbs to 2 grams per pound. And my pre workout and post workout meals were as many calories as some people get in 1 day. The scale will not tell you if you are on track. You need to do body fat testing to make sure you are putting on muscle.

As for your workout... I'm not knocking the workout plan you selected, but I would break it down in to a 4 day split. I wouldn't do back and chest on the same day. I would have a chest day/tricep day, back/bicep day, legs/core day and shoulder day. If you want to do a 3 day split I would just combine shoulders and chest together.

I believe in supplements, but I don't push them on other people. I would recommend at least some BCAA's and Whey Protein (if you aren't already using them).

kathleennf

I have been eating a little above what MFP calculates as maintenance and doing weights for a little over 6 months now, and have succeeded in maintaining the same weight and building muscle while losing a little of the leftover fat. It's a slow process but it works. I did not want to increase my calories too much and gain more fat back, even though I know I could build muscle faster that way. Echoing what others have said, I do eat back my exercise calories, drink a protein shake faithfully within half an hour of finishing my workout, and have adjusted my goals to a higher protein level. (I'm at about 1 gram per pound of total body weight. I refuse to completely give up dessert. :happy: ).

qballjr13

http://jcdfitness.com/2009/10/the-former-fat-boy-syndrome/

http://jcdfitness.com/2012/03/former-fat-boy-syndrome-hangups/

Thank you for these, I will read them over the weekend.

qballjr13

It's not the weights, it's the diet. Part I of my story was I went from 300 lbs to @ 170 lbs. Part II was I put on 25 lbs of muscle next. I increased my protein and carbs to 2 grams per pound. And my pre workout and post workout meals were as many calories as some people get in 1 day. The scale will not tell you if you are on track. You need to do body fat testing to make sure you are putting on muscle.

As for your workout... I'm not knocking the workout plan you selected, but I would break it down in to a 4 day split. I wouldn't do back and chest on the same day. I would have a chest day/tricep day, back/bicep day, legs/core day and shoulder day. If you want to do a 3 day split I would just combine shoulders and chest together.

I believe in supplements, but I don't push them on other people. I would recommend at least some BCAA's and Whey Protein (if you aren't already using them).

Thank you for the feedback. Here is my issue...I have a wife and 2 young kids at home so my gym time is limited, I like having family time. So I am really stuck on 2 days a week. I make the most of it! I totally understand your split and agree 100% but I have to work with I got.
I am currently using Optimum Hydro Builder for my protein and an Optimum BCAA (2 capsuls before and after a workout).
I will be trying to find something that I can do at home for a third day, my 6 year old daughter likes to "workout" with me.

magerum

http://jcdfitness.com/2009/10/the-former-fat-boy-syndrome/

http://jcdfitness.com/2012/03/former-fat-boy-syndrome-hangups/

Solid! Thanks Ace!

mattstrat

http://jcdfitness.com/2009/10/the-former-fat-boy-syndrome/

Thanks, good read.

HeidiMightyRawr

My cut last year was 1500 net gradually going up to 1750 net nearer to my goal. I didn't really see it as a proper cut at that point as I had no intention of ever bulking, but I was eating in a deficit to lose, and I was lifting.

Then in July (2011) I switched to bulking to gain some muscle. I ate at 2600 net for the first 6 weeks roughly, weight gain slowed right down, so I upped it to 2800 where I gained regularly until I finished bulking in the new year. I gained 16lbs in 6 months. Some was definitely muscle. Body fat says around 6lbs lean mass. I could tell a noticeable difference in my muscle mass, I was smaller than at the same weight prior to cutting/bulking. I went up around one size in my jeans. Strength also went up loads.

I did get a belly, a fair amount was still fat. It's going to happen, but provided you've got a good training routine, when you eat enough you will gain muscle too. Quite a bit was water too, in the beginning I gained quickly and it slowed down, same with the weight loss afterwards.

Since cutting again, that has reinforced how much muscle I did gain, even though I gained a fair amount of fat too. I have more muscle in general than before bulking and more definition.

If you can only go to the gym twice a week, definitely make the most of it! I'd say full body, heavy compound lifts, while eating enough. Although I'd still try and fit in 3-4 times instead of 2, or at least include a couple extra workouts at home each week.

YoSoyFiesta21

I agree with Nutrition1st, but have some additional ideas. For working out obviously you want to keep your muscles fresh so you could look at these 2 day splits.
Chest/Back/Biceps/Abs
Shoulders/Triceps/Legs
I also recommend supplements such as BCAA's, multi vitamin (omega 3 for sure), and a pre workout (especially if you're trying to cram 5 days of working out into 2) on top of your normal post workout protein shake.

If you haven't heard of Carb cycling, I suggest reading up on it. It keeps your body guessing and will help you bust through any weight gain plateus as long as you're not reducing your protein intake.

SierraElegance

Way to "help" by suggesting a crappy workout program you're trying to make commission off of
[/quote]

I'm trying to help him reach his goals, and this is exactly what he is looking for. Yes, I make a small commission but I would much rather help people than just make money. I am in love with this program and I'm sure you know nothing about it! This is 10 times better than P90X for muscle building....

Aperture_Science

http://jcdfitness.com/2009/10/the-former-fat-boy-syndrome/

http://jcdfitness.com/2012/03/former-fat-boy-syndrome-hangups/

These articles are brilliant. Thanks for posting them.

Nutrition1st

One of the most important points of all... Since you are increasing your protein intake, you must increase your water intake as well!

SierraElegance

And I also spent a lot more money having a coach to train for competition, and the program and nutrition she gave me were very similar to this, so that's why I'm so excited about it! Most people don't want to hire a trainer or a coach, so this is a great deal comparatively.

Acg67

Way to "help" by suggesting a crappy workout program you're trying to make commission off of

I'm trying to help him reach his goals, and this is exactly what he is looking for. Yes, I make a small commission but I would much rather help people than just make money. I am in love with this program and I'm sure you know nothing about it! This is 10 times better than P90X for muscle building....
[/quote]

Yeah right, everyone knows that Tony Horton's muscle confusion workouts are the holy grail to hypertrophy

Sidesteal

Brb confusing my muscles. LoL


OP: if you can only dedicate 2/week gym time I would definitely find a full body routine using mostly compound lifts. Bodypart splits are fine but if you can only go twice you'll really want to maximize frequency in my opinion.

cPT_Helice

Brb confusing my muscles. LoL


OP: if you can only dedicate 2/week gym time I would definitely find a full body routine using mostly compound lifts. Bodypart splits are fine but if you can only go twice you'll really want to maximize frequency in my opinion.

I agree with the above. I am down to twice a week now and doing full body on both days, though not heavy with legs. The only reason i am only lifting twice a week is because I am running 4 days a week and I also teach Spin. And.... I know I can't build right now and am just hoping to not lose more than I have to. I'm training for a marathon. But..... you can bet that as soon as I recover from it, I will have myself back in that gym and be lifting 3-4 days a week HEAVY and doing cardio at a minimum but still doing it.

Are you saying that you are only lifting twice a week or only working out twice a week period? If you are only working out twice a week, no matter what you do, and you up your cals to 2800-3000, you will no question gain a LOT of fat. I'm thinking you are not doing that. Right?

qballjr13

Thank you so much for all the information that everyone has provided me here. I have a lot to read and reflect on. I apparently need to rethink my strategy a little and maybe add some to it. I know now that I can really count on this group for information, THIS is why I love MFP!

qballjr13

Brb confusing my muscles. LoL


OP: if you can only dedicate 2/week gym time I would definitely find a full body routine using mostly compound lifts. Bodypart splits are fine but if you can only go twice you'll really want to maximize frequency in my opinion.

I agree with the above. I am down to twice a week now and doing full body on both days, though not heavy with legs. The only reason i am only lifting twice a week is because I am running 4 days a week and I also teach Spin. And.... I know I can't build right now and am just hoping to not lose more than I have to. I'm training for a marathon. But..... you can bet that as soon as I recover from it, I will have myself back in that gym and be lifting 3-4 days a week HEAVY and doing cardio at a minimum but still doing it.

Are you saying that you are only lifting twice a week or only working out twice a week period? If you are only working out twice a week, no matter what you do, and you up your cals to 2800-3000, you will no question gain a LOT of fat. I'm thinking you are not doing that. Right?

Yes, I am saying that the only think I am doing is working out twice a week in the gym. I obviously need to find a 3rd or maybe 4th day of activity to maximize my gains.