P90x2 and HRM

muk2012

I have read many times that a HRM is really only any use (accuracy wise) with cardio workouts. What I want to know though is what are your thoughts of using it with P90x 2?

Even if the actual readout of calories is totally inaccurate could I use the figure given to judge next time how hard I was working out in comparison? Or is the figure so inaccurate that it may change by large amounts rather than due to how hard I am working?

Thanks!

muk2012

*bump*

muk2012

None?

vtachycardia

I use my HRM for everything even weight training sessions which has changed the way I weight train. Rest intervals have decreased in order to keep a minimum high heart rate and to achieve anaerobic levels by the time I have completed a set. Consequence is that my ability to clear lactic acid has improved.

I then still track an Average BPM for a calorie guide line.

I am sure you can do the same for P90x., track improvement, see if you are actually getting a great cardio and strength benefit.

muk2012

Thanks for the reply.

I will try a HRM with P90x2 and use the calorie output to judge whether my output is better or worse than last time.

rherington

Put in the exercise notes your average and max heart rate. That would be a better way than calories to judge intensity I would think.

vtachycardia

Put in the exercise notes your average and max heart rate. That would be a better way than calories to judge intensity I would think.

quite right. And how long it took you to Max out, that is always a great achievement as it gets longer and longer to do so.

And of course, RPE rated physical exertion or the Borg Scale - also a great way to put exercise into context.

Average heart rate for the calorie burn.

muk2012

Great ideas. Thanks for these. Hopefully helpful for others as well.

neverstray

You can of course, but it will be wrong.

P90X2 says that you burn about 650 avg per workout. So, why not just do that? You'll burn more on some less on others, but it averages out.

tangal88

You can of course, but it will be wrong.

P90X2 says that you burn about 650 avg per workout. So, why not just do that? You'll burn more on some less on others, but it averages out.

I disagree.

Above is a rough "average" for everyone- average means male or female, short or tall, fit or unfit, over the entire 90 day plan. So No I would NOT personally use that as "your" actual calorie burn.

I am 5'2" female, 48 years old, very good shape, do all routines in advanced mode, with heavy weight, low reps, continually moving between all rest breaks. (P90x and P90x2) I burn 300-400 per DVD. 400 only on Plyo, if I add in extra weights, never on other DVDs.

I have NEVER gotten close to 500 cals on one DVD. So If I used 600 on DVDs as an average, I will skew my numbers a lot. It would not waverage out over 90 days.

My husband, same routine, but Male, taller (5'7") heavier , less fit, but lots more muscle, lifts heavier then me, burns 400-500 per workout.

Depending on your fitness level, male or female. how many rest breaks you take, weight range used, rep count used, your fitness level, size etc - you can burn dramatically less then 600 per DVD. Some people burn more.

A HRM will be MUCH closer to giving you something more accurate for "you" assuming you add in gender, weight, height, and have a chest strap.

P90X plans are more of an active circuit style workout, not resistance only, so if you do it correctly, you should be continually moving, with short rest breaks. So your heart rate stays higher. It is closer to a cardio type workout then a standard "lifting only" routine, that is often more slower paced. Its kind of a mix between the two.

I always use one, it helps me gauge if I am pushing myself enough, and I can see how I do from week to week on the same exercise DVD and make adjustments if needed, as my fitness changes.

Another "averages" example: My treadclimber says people burn an average of 800 or more calories an hour on it - I burn 400-470, with added weight vest , highest speed, highest incline.

My husband burns 600 per hour.

muk2012

I would think using a HRM rather than an "average" from the makers (marketing department) of P90x2 must surely be more accurate.

dsuppa1997

I have read many times that a HRM is really only any use (accuracy wise) with cardio workouts. What I want to know though is what are your thoughts of using it with P90x 2?

Even if the actual readout of calories is totally inaccurate could I use the figure given to judge next time how hard I was working out in comparison? Or is the figure so inaccurate that it may change by large amounts rather than due to how hard I am working?

Thanks!

Why is the readout of calories "totally inaccurate"? Am I missing something here? I use my HRM calories as what I burned, I take my HR about every 3-4 minutes throughout the DVD(except for Yoga because its just not doable).

tangal88

HMR's are created to gauge "cardio" burns - so they are most accurate when doing a cardio routine.

When doing resistance/strength training, the heart rate can be artificially raised in relation to individual muscle stress when lifting heavy weights, which the HRM judges in relation to a heart rate increase from using larger muscle groups in the body, for an extended time, no breaks (like when you run) - rather then "knowing" you are using a smaller targeted muscle group (like your arms), for a short time, and just lifting a heavy weight.

So the actual calorie burn you really get, maybe different then what the HMR tells you, that you have.

It just related to the way heart rate is raised, and how the heart rate monitor counts that as the calories you burned.

It can cause an overestimation of the actual calories you burned, if you are doing a lifting only routine, depending on the routine, rest breaks, strain you are actually under, weight used etc.. (no cardio in the mix)

And I agree this can be the case.

However P90X and P90X2 are not a standard lifting only routine, it is faster paced, you move from one muscle group to another quickly, your reps are done fairly quickly, 1 set, then moving on immediately, and rest breaks are few and short, and often active.

So the heart rate stays more constantly in the higher range. Closer to a cardio routine.

In a standard lifting only routine, you lift, take a break, sit down maybe, possibly rest, maybe repeat a set, or move to a new weight or machine, change out weight, tend to lift slower etc. All of which often allows the heart rate to drop much lower, between your actual lifting stress/highs.

An HMR will still not be completely 100%, with P90X, but it should be close enough, to allow you to use it as a guide in your performance, and overall improvement, and rough cal burn.

vtachycardia

HMR's are created to gauge "cardio" burns - so they are most accurate when doing a cardio routine.

When doing resistance/strength training, the heart rate can be artificially raised in relation to individual muscle stress when lifting heavy weights, which the HRM judges in relation to a heart rate increase from using larger muscle groups in the body, for an extended time, no breaks (like when you run) - rather then "knowing" you are using a smaller targeted muscle group (like your arms), for a short time, and just lifting a heavy weight.

So the actual calorie burn you really get, maybe different then what the HMR tells you, that you have.

It just related to the way heart rate is raised, and how the heart rate monitor counts that as the calories you burned.

It can cause an overestimation of the actual calories you burned, if you are doing a lifting only routine, depending on the routine, rest breaks, strain you are actually under, weight used etc.. (no cardio in the mix)

And I agree this can be the case.

However P90X and P90X2 are not a standard lifting only routine, it is faster paced, you move from one muscle group to another quickly, your reps are done fairly quickly, 1 set, then moving on immediately, and rest breaks are few and short, and often active.

So the heart rate stays more constantly in the higher range. Closer to a cardio routine.

In a standard lifting only routine, you lift, take a break, sit down maybe, possibly rest, maybe repeat a set, or move to a new weight or machine, change out weight, tend to lift slower etc. All of which often allows the heart rate to drop much lower, between your actual lifting stress/highs.

An HMR will still not be completely 100%, with P90X, but it should be close enough, to allow you to use it as a guide in your performance, and overall improvement, and rough cal burn.

HMR is only for cardio, can only guage cardio calorie burn. That rather depends on how one strength trains.

Given that World's Strongest Man Competition last year had competitors wearing HRM's and the results were impressive to say the least, they started events at high cardio, moved to anaerobic and then into MHR. Staggering readings from some competitors, are you saying that they cannot guage their immediate calorie burn, not to mention epoc.

And only the badly informed lifters rest like you describe for strength training, the informed do active recovery and keep the heart rate high, it is the muscles that are getting the rest not the cardio system - different for Olympic lift training. But even if you rested going from 150bpm to 90bpm over the course of 45 minutes you get an average which is measurable as a calorie burn from the cardio system. One should actually factor in an addition for the anaerobic activity.

BTW, most HRM manufacturers are now providing a function on their expensive computers to factor anaerobic training.

neverstray

You cannot disagree with it. I know how it all works. I was just saying that you have nothing else to go on since an HRM is useless in this siutation and based on the food plan, they say to calculate 650 per workout. That's it. I didn't make it up. That's what the program says to use. it's not about agreeing or disagreeing. if you think they're wrong, come up with something better and let us all know.

You can of course, but it will be wrong.

P90X2 says that you burn about 650 avg per workout. So, why not just do that? You'll burn more on some less on others, but it averages out.

I disagree.

Above is a rough "average" for everyone- average means male or female, short or tall, fit or unfit, over the entire 90 day plan. So No I would NOT personally use that as "your" actual calorie burn.

I am 5'2" female, 48 years old, very good shape, do all routines in advanced mode, with heavy weight, low reps, continually moving between all rest breaks. (P90x and P90x2) I burn 300-400 per DVD. 400 only on Plyo, if I add in extra weights, never on other DVDs.

I have NEVER gotten close to 500 cals on one DVD. So If I used 600 on DVDs as an average, I will skew my numbers a lot. It would not waverage out over 90 days.

My husband, same routine, but Male, taller (5'7") heavier , less fit, but lots more muscle, lifts heavier then me, burns 400-500 per workout.

Depending on your fitness level, male or female. how many rest breaks you take, weight range used, rep count used, your fitness level, size etc - you can burn dramatically less then 600 per DVD. Some people burn more.

A HRM will be MUCH closer to giving you something more accurate for "you" assuming you add in gender, weight, height, and have a chest strap.

P90X plans are more of an active circuit style workout, not resistance only, so if you do it correctly, you should be continually moving, with short rest breaks. So your heart rate stays higher. It is closer to a cardio type workout then a standard "lifting only" routine, that is often more slower paced. Its kind of a mix between the two.

I always use one, it helps me gauge if I am pushing myself enough, and I can see how I do from week to week on the same exercise DVD and make adjustments if needed, as my fitness changes.

Another "averages" example: My treadclimber says people burn an average of 800 or more calories an hour on it - I burn 400-470, with added weight vest , highest speed, highest incline.

My husband burns 600 per hour.

neverstray

OK, just going to be technical for a moment. HRM's ONLY gauge heart rate. All other things are calculations based on pre-programmed algorithms. So, it doesn't "know" your calorie burn, and uses your heart rate, and takes a stab at what it probably is. But, it doesn't know that information. All it knows for certain, is your heart rate. That's all it does is monitor heart rate. They are not called "calorie burn monitors".

HMR's are created to gauge "cardio" burns - so they are most accurate when doing a cardio routine.

When doing resistance/strength training, the heart rate can be artificially raised in relation to individual muscle stress when lifting heavy weights, which the HRM judges in relation to a heart rate increase from using larger muscle groups in the body, for an extended time, no breaks (like when you run) - rather then "knowing" you are using a smaller targeted muscle group (like your arms), for a short time, and just lifting a heavy weight.

So the actual calorie burn you really get, maybe different then what the HMR tells you, that you have.

It just related to the way heart rate is raised, and how the heart rate monitor counts that as the calories you burned.

It can cause an overestimation of the actual calories you burned, if you are doing a lifting only routine, depending on the routine, rest breaks, strain you are actually under, weight used etc.. (no cardio in the mix)

And I agree this can be the case.

However P90X and P90X2 are not a standard lifting only routine, it is faster paced, you move from one muscle group to another quickly, your reps are done fairly quickly, 1 set, then moving on immediately, and rest breaks are few and short, and often active.

So the heart rate stays more constantly in the higher range. Closer to a cardio routine.

In a standard lifting only routine, you lift, take a break, sit down maybe, possibly rest, maybe repeat a set, or move to a new weight or machine, change out weight, tend to lift slower etc. All of which often allows the heart rate to drop much lower, between your actual lifting stress/highs.

An HMR will still not be completely 100%, with P90X, but it should be close enough, to allow you to use it as a guide in your performance, and overall improvement, and rough cal burn.

HMR is only for cardio, can only guage cardio calorie burn. That rather depends on how one strength trains.

Given that World's Strongest Man Competition last year had competitors wearing HRM's and the results were impressive to say the least, they started events at high cardio, moved to anaerobic and then into MHR. Staggering readings from some competitors, are you saying that they cannot guage their immediate calorie burn, not to mention epoc.

And only the badly informed lifters rest like you describe for strength training, the informed do active recovery and keep the heart rate high, it is the muscles that are getting the rest not the cardio system - different for Olympic lift training. But even if you rested going from 150bpm to 90bpm over the course of 45 minutes you get an average which is measurable as a calorie burn from the cardio system. One should actually factor in an addition for the anaerobic activity.

BTW, most HRM manufacturers are now providing a function on their expensive computers to factor anaerobic training.

vtachycardia

Technical or patronising, I certainly know about the collected data sets that create the complex algorithms of which HR is an important part and taking HR readings can be useful for. Or perhaps when my average is 140BPM for 60 minutes strength training I should discard that figure as no calories used.

So, is the P90X data from true calorie science available to quantify the 650 that you say is accurate and will all even out in the end.

Strength training can justify the use of HRM and they are not the sole preserve of cardio, which is what someone quite pointedley said was tha case/

neverstray

Technical or patronising, I certainly know about the collected data sets that create the complex algorithms of which HR is an important part and taking HR readings can be useful for. Or perhaps when my average is 140BPM for 60 minutes strength training I should discard that figure as no calories used.

So, is the P90X data from true calorie science available to quantify the 650 that you say is accurate and will all even out in the end.

Strength training can justify the use of HRM and they are not the sole preserve of cardio, which is what someone quite pointedley said was tha case/

Actually, they can't. But a lot if people ignore that and use them anyway. I wasn't veing patronizing. Many people are not aware of the true function and value of an HRM. You seem to know, so that's cool. Whatever works. It doesn't really matter that much to me. I was just pointing it out so that people who read this thread realize that HRMs are not a good tool for calorie burn on weight training. if the manufacturers are starting to build a weight training algorithm into some HRMs, that's fantastic. I'd buy one of those, even if it wasnt perfectly accurate.