"a calorie is a calorie is a calorie" vs clean eating
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A lot of these responses are great.
It's also important to remember that different things work for different people in terms of what we enjoy, how we feel, what causes feelings of normalcy or deprivation, what is manageable for us. All of that is going to be different for everyone (and can change from time to time). Only we know that for ourselves.
There is no perfect formula for knowing how many calories we need or how many we burn (and it's always changing). If you need to lose weight, there are lots of ways to do that by eating at a calorie deficit. But, health is also a factor as well (not just weight).
But, if you are maintaining weight and working on body composition (as I am), it becomes more complex and variable. At this point, I am tweaking things at a much more subtle level and striking a balance so I do not go under weight and am able to continue to build muscle (which is a type of controlled weight gain).0 -
How does an insulin spike after eating fruit cause fat storage in a calorific deficit? What physioligical processes are you talking about? Why would you consume immediately after exercise?
So I am pulling together some random facts that I think he might have been referring to. Insulin has a multitude of effects on the metabolism of your cells, in the big picture the release of insulin decreases overall lipolysis. I think under a calorie deficit that this would be a more temporary occurrence, but it is important for body composition that your body uses released blood fats as the energy source and not circulating amino acids. Fructose bypasses important regulation steps in glucose metabolism, and can lead to a higher energy state in the cell, which after a series of steps can increase lipid synthesis. Also after exercise the muscles begin rebuilding their glycogen stores, a good use for that sugar.0 -
How does an insulin spike after eating fruit cause fat storage in a calorific deficit? What physioligical processes are you talking about? Why would you consume immediately after exercise?
So I am pulling together some random facts that I think he might have been referring to. Insulin has a multitude of effects on the metabolism of your cells, in the big picture the release of insulin decreases overall lipolysis. I think under a calorie deficit that this would be a more temporary occurrence, but it is important for body composition that your body uses released blood fats as the energy source and not circulating amino acids. Fructose bypasses important regulation steps in glucose metabolism, and can lead to a higher energy state in the cell, which after a series of steps can increase lipid synthesis. Also after exercise the muscles begin rebuilding their glycogen stores, a good use for that sugar.
You are correct in that it is temporary and therefore none of it is relevent in a calorie deficit.0 -
I see. Maybe not for people operating at a high calorie deficient, but for people who are trying to maintain a very high muscle to fat ratio. In the sense that you wouldn't want to be repeatedly introducing sugar into the equation throughout the day.0
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A lot of these responses are great.
It's also important to remember that different things work for different people in terms of what we enjoy, how we feel, what causes feelings of normalcy or deprivation, what is manageable for us. All of that is going to be different for everyone (and can change from time to time). Only we know that for ourselves.
There is no perfect formula for knowing how many calories we need or how many we burn (and it's always changing). If you need to lose weight, there are lots of ways to do that easily by eating at a calorie deficit.
But, if you are maintaining weight and working on body composition (as I am), it becomes more complex and variable. At this point, I am tweaking things at a much more subtle level and striking a balance so I do not go under weight and am able to continue to build muscle.
This is the best response I've seen so far. YOU need to figure out what works for YOU in YOUR life. The absolutists will weigh in, and some already have, saying eating 100% clean (ie, nothing unhealthy, ever) and/or zero carb is the only way to go. Unless they have some insight into your life, they are just pushing their personal beliefs and habits to others. Try different ways of eating, give it a couple weeks at each time for your body to adjust, and see how you feel and how the weight loss is responding. You will eventually find a balance that provides the healthy nutrition you need and the occasional bit of unhealthy food that you might crave.0 -
A lot of these responses are great.
It's also important to remember that different things work for different people in terms of what we enjoy, how we feel, what causes feelings of normalcy or deprivation, what is manageable for us. All of that is going to be different for everyone (and can change from time to time). Only we know that for ourselves.
There is no perfect formula for knowing how many calories we need or how many we burn (and it's always changing). If you need to lose weight, there are lots of ways to do that easily by eating at a calorie deficit.
But, if you are maintaining weight and working on body composition (as I am), it becomes more complex and variable. At this point, I am tweaking things at a much more subtle level and striking a balance so I do not go under weight and am able to continue to build muscle.
This is the best response I've seen so far. YOU need to figure out what works for YOU in YOUR life. The absolutists will weigh in, and some already have, saying eating 100% clean (ie, nothing unhealthy, ever) and/or zero carb is the only way to go. Unless they have some insight into your life, they are just pushing their personal beliefs and habits to others. Try different ways of eating, give it a couple weeks at each time for your body to adjust, and see how you feel and how the weight loss is responding. You will eventually find a balance that provides the healthy nutrition you need and the occasional bit of unhealthy food that you might crave.
It's because she's so smart and experienced :flowerforyou: .0 -
Maybe not for people operating at a high calorie deficient, but for people who are trying to maintain a very high muscle to fat ratio.
Sorry - assuming this is related to my response I am a little confused as to the context (I am not being snarky at all - just trying to understand). Macros are very relevent for muscle retention - not the type of carbs. My initial question was in relation to the comment regarding fruit as opposed to vegetables (or actually any other carb).0 -
I have been following the priciples of the skinny chicks really don't eat salad for two weeks now. I lost about 8 stone doing the Dukan; high protien low fat; but my weight loss ground to a halt (admittedly one or two bad habits crept in) but I thought three good workouts per week would allow me the odd treat (wrong!) I also missed fruit. I feel AMAZING! Whereas I would be bleary eyed till ten AM I have been wide awake by 7am, I have so much energy, I think the secret is to eat every 3-4 hours to stabilize your blood sugars; I have no cravings for sugar or fatty stuff, though I must admit after 18 months this has been limited anyway so maybe it's become habit; I really look forward to eating a mix of good carb and protien along with a good fat (flax; oily fish; avacado etc) I have started to loose again, not able to do a workout at the moment due to a knee injury, This is not a quick fix but, boy do you feel great; I am wearing size 14-16 depending on the cut and shape wheras on the start of my journey my dres size was 24-26 and going up! Eat; feed yourself good stuff and do it regularly through the day. I am keeping an eye on total calories per day and staying whithin 1200 plus any excercise.0
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Maybe not for people operating at a high calorie deficient, but for people who are trying to maintain a very high muscle to fat ratio.
Sorry - assuming this is related to my response I am a little confused as to the context (I am not being snarky at all - just trying to understand). Macros are very relevent for muscle retention - not the type of carbs. My initial question was in relation to the comment regarding fruit as opposed to vegetables (or actually any other carb).
No worries, I realized after that I was being totally vague. I blame it being past my bedtime. :laugh:
So this is speculation, I know some metabolism, but not the nitty gritty of fitness metabolism (something that I'm trying to read up on if any one knows good resources.) I think that being strict about sugar intake would be helpful to those who are walking the fine line of maintaining muscle while trying to slightly lower body fat composition. People that may be operating at a slight deficit. If you are ingesting sugars your cells aren't going to be burning that bit of fat for a time, lipid storage increases, and you may also use up some of the circulating amino acids that you would hope is being used for muscle repair.
I'm not sure if I'm getting any where with this, so on that note I'm going to bed. :flowerforyou:0 -
Woah. You're putting words in my mouth. I never said to eat a ton of fruit- but in my experience fruit is generally self-limiting if you're watching your diet as a whole. The idea is balance. If you eat too much fruit, you won't get enough vegetables and protein and fat. I guess I could have chosen my words more carefully to specify more vegetables and some fruit.I think both sides are too dramatic. There is much more to nutrition than calories- but you don't need to "eat clean" whatever that means, all the time either. There's a happy middle ground that you can find where you eat a well balanced and nutritious diet- and still enjoy some of the treats that you like.
My philosophy is to get protein first, eat as many fruits and vegetables as possible, some whole grains, and use the excess calories however you wish. It's a very sustainable approach- does not at all feel like a diet.
I wouldn't recommend a person "eat as much fruit" as they want while trying to lose weight. Green veggies you can go nuts, devouring a fruit plate will spike insulin and cause fat storage. Additionally fructose can contribute to fat storage through physiological processes.
Limit fruit if you are trying to lose weight, and ideally consume immediately after exercise.
I don't agree with the insulin hypothesis though- I think that's flat out wrong unless you have a metabolic reason to be concerned about insulin.
Not to nitpick, but you said "eat as much fruit as possible." So I think that's where he came up with the idea that you said "eat a ton of fruit." Either way, I don't think anyone needs to avoid fruit as long as they stay under their calorie goal and get enough protein and fat.0 -
Maybe not for people operating at a high calorie deficient, but for people who are trying to maintain a very high muscle to fat ratio.
Sorry - assuming this is related to my response I am a little confused as to the context (I am not being snarky at all - just trying to understand). Macros are very relevent for muscle retention - not the type of carbs. My initial question was in relation to the comment regarding fruit as opposed to vegetables (or actually any other carb).
No worries, I realized after that I was being totally vague. I blame it being past my bedtime. :laugh:
So this is speculation, I know some metabolism, but not the nitty gritty of fitness metabolism (something that I'm trying to read up on if any one knows good resources.) I think that being strict about sugar intake would be helpful to those who are walking the fine line of maintaining muscle while trying to slightly lower body fat composition. People that may be operating at a slight deficit. If you are ingesting sugars your cells aren't going to be burning that bit of fat for a time, lipid storage increases, and you may also use up some of the circulating amino acids that you would hope is being used for muscle repair.
I'm not sure if I'm getting any where with this, so on that note I'm going to bed. :flowerforyou:
LOL - I know what you mean as my post wasn't exactly verbose.
Anyhoo, its really carbohydrates in general people start to 'tweak' more when trying to maintain LBM and lose fat, but really the biggest goal to doing that is to get enough protein (and resistance train). A lot of people do carb/calorie cycling to tweak around with the carb/fat macros in order to try to eek (sp) out as much body fat losses while maintaining energy for exercise, but really protein is the key to muscle repair. A really good resource to any of this is Lyle McDonalds posts on www.bodyrecomposition.com if you want to read up more.
Good sleeps (also good for weight loss) so I think I need to do the same! :flowerforyou:0 -
Every individual is different. What works for me, will not work for everyone else. I can manage to eat anything I want and still manage to cut if I choose to do so. Eating 'clean' though will have some added health benefits in addition to aiding in your weight loss goal.0
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[ b]..others tell me I won't lose unless I eat clean bc its more about nutrition and macro-nutrients than calories. [/b] Since December, I've lost about 30 lbs, and I'm on my way to losing another 20, so obviously I've been doing something right. But It seems as if my weight no longer wants to budge, and I'm wondering if its because I haven't been eating as healthy (yet still staying within my daily calorie allowance). I just need some honest answers please.
Okay, I personally have never heard anyone actually say the bolded, but more that eating clean is preferable to your overall health.
And in theory, I admit, a calorie is a calorie makes sense. As an engineer I expect to see a system follow that fundamental formula. However, you have reached a plateau. Every day there are people being stumped by plateaus. As a matter of fact, I would go so far as to say that dealing with weight loss plateaus is probably one of the bigger stumbling blocks that people have on their journey, primarily because noone seems to know exactly what is going on. I've never seen an engine plateau (constantly running but not losing fuel) so I think its safe to say that the human body is more complex with more variables than a mechanical device that may be intervening.
Basically, you're going to have to tinker with your exercise and diet until you find what pulls you out of this plateau. It may be an estimation error, but it could also be something else that you have to tweak.0 -
I think both sides are too dramatic. There is much more to nutrition than calories- but you don't need to "eat clean" whatever that means, all the time either. There's a happy middle ground that you can find where you eat a well balanced and nutritious diet- and still enjoy some of the treats that you like.
My philosophy is to get protein first, eat as many fruits and vegetables as possible, some whole grains, and use the excess calories however you wish. It's a very sustainable approach- does not at all feel like a diet.
I wouldn't recommend a person "eat as much fruit" as they want while trying to lose weight. Green veggies you can go nuts, devouring a fruit plate will spike insulin and cause fat storage. Additionally fructose can contribute to fat storage through physiological processes.
Limit fruit if you are trying to lose weight, and ideally consume immediately after exercise.
I find it quite worrying that this is meant to be a healthy living / losing weight site, and yet people tell others not to eat fruit; one of the healthiest and most low fat foods you can put into your mouth.0 -
Do the best you can, OP, with the healthiest living you can stick to. For someone who just started, that could mean the professor twinkie diet. I believe in eating as clean as you are able, with able encompassing emotions, cravings, etc.0
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Staying within your calorie goal but eating rubbish or fast food sounds good in theory but just remember your body takes longer to break down processed foods as opose to natural foods like fruit and vegetables. Not only this but your body will be able to use more of the foods internally than the elements that make up processed stuff. Indulging in rubbish is ok now and again (for your own sanitiy and to stay on goal more than anything) but nothing beats a generally healthy diet.0
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80/20 rule. Stay within your daily requirements but try to eat clean 80% of the time.0
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A calorie is a calorie is a calorie.
But some calories are going to make you feel full and energised and ready to go and some calories are going to make you feel like you have a hangover.
When I used to eat processed sugar, I got all these highs and lows, cravings and feeling physically exhausted. Since giving it up I have much better energy levels, I can resist sweet things much easier and I just feel healthier inside. If I have a slip up, the next day is like a mini detox, horrible!
In short - calories are calories, but good nutrition has other benefits.0 -
Do what works for you.... People are always gonna shove their stupid beliefs down your throat.0
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I think both sides are too dramatic. There is much more to nutrition than calories- but you don't need to "eat clean" whatever that means, all the time either. There's a happy middle ground that you can find where you eat a well balanced and nutritious diet- and still enjoy some of the treats that you like.
My philosophy is to get protein first, eat as many fruits and vegetables as possible, some whole grains, and use the excess calories however you wish. It's a very sustainable approach- does not at all feel like a diet.
That's my approach, too.
I focus on nutrition, but I also firmly believe that food should be enjoyed. If clean eating means I can't add some bbq sauce to my chicken or a squirt of bacon ranch dressing to a baked potato, and maybe a Klondike bar here or there, I want no part of it.0 -
I think both sides are too dramatic. There is much more to nutrition than calories- but you don't need to "eat clean" whatever that means, all the time either. There's a happy middle ground that you can find where you eat a well balanced and nutritious diet- and still enjoy some of the treats that you like.
My philosophy is to get protein first, eat as many fruits and vegetables as possible, some whole grains, and use the excess calories however you wish. It's a very sustainable approach- does not at all feel like a diet.
Great post. I do follow the same get protein first as it's too easy to build up on calories as most simple carbs give a short term fullness and I can speak for myself that the more carbs I get, the more I look for.
If anyone's focus is just to lose weight, yeah twinkie diets do work. With high carb, high sugar, bad protein and bad fats, do not expect a body change, though. Take a body photo of yourself, shrink it on photoshop and that's what you'll get unless you couple it with super extreme intense training. Like all abs people say, abs are made in the kitchen.0 -
I try and follow an 80/20 principle. 80% is good quality protein, fruit and veg, and some starches. 20% is a little of what you fancy. I baked a gluten free bakewell tart last night, it's not going to derail my weight loss unless I a) eat it every day and b) eat huge portions of it or c) do both of the above combined with eating other unhealthy foods frequently to excess and not exercising.
Good nutrition has lots of benefits, as others have pointed out here. A few of the benefits I've experienced have been better skin and hair, stronger nails, more even blood sugar/energy throughout the day if I make the right choices, and better sleep.
I don't quite subscribe to either "a calorie is a calorie" or the clean eating philosophy I guess. I know that nuts are a more nutritious higher calorie food than chocolate, but I am still aware that an excess of either can cause weight gain. I guess I'm in the camp of "you might as well get more good stuff for your calories, seeing as we all gotta eat".0 -
I just started this process, but I have been "eating clean," for the most part, for a long time, but still gained weight eating too much, and not exercising enough. So, you do need to stay within a calorie limit even with eating clean.
I find I am more full eating clean, then when I have foods that don't add nutrition. For example, the sweet tea and wine I was drinking did not really have any nutritional value, and was adding 300 calories to my day. Thus, I was less hungry when I cut them out and replaced them with whole foods. Rather than overdo it, I still allow one of each per week, but just stay with in my calorie range. Also, once a week, we have desert night, so we have some balance there, too.
I recommend seeing a Naturapath if you are really interested in moving to more "clean" choices. I'm no expert, but also, exercise is important, as it increases your metabolism.
I hope this helps you start having movement on your plateau.
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I think both sides are too dramatic. There is much more to nutrition than calories- but you don't need to "eat clean" whatever that means, all the time either. There's a happy middle ground that you can find where you eat a well balanced and nutritious diet- and still enjoy some of the treats that you like.
My philosophy is to get protein first, eat as many fruits and vegetables as possible, some whole grains, and use the excess calories however you wish. It's a very sustainable approach- does not at all feel like a diet.
This is what I'm working towards.0 -
I wish I can end up saying a calorie is a calorie...but it might not be the case for me. This is the second time I've given calorie counting a try. The first time I lost only four pounds in four months. I wanted it ti work so I could eat a variety of things. I'm back for the same reason and limiting my calories to a lower 1200 to see if it will work.
But what did work for me last year when I lost 30 pounds was super clean eating..no processed foods...no sodium added whatsoever...and eating six small meals a day. It was like magic..but I got tired of eating on a timer and bland healthy food constantly. When I hit goal.... the dirty unclean calories were so tasty ...I gained it all back.. deprivation doesn't work
I pray a calorie is a calorie...0 -
I have 10lbs to lose. I can honestly say from my personal experience that you can't just eat what you want and have a deficit and you will lose weight b/c for 19 months I haven't lost anything. I have zig zagged calories, I have done intense workouts burning 500-1000 calories a day. I have eaten back calories and I have not eaten back calories. I dropped my calories to 1240 at one point and up'd them to 1700 calories at one point. My sodium levels are never over except for the occasional two/three times a month. My sugar is what is hurting me I believe...that and just eating crap food. So I think the closer that you get to goal the harder it will become to just eat what you want with a deficit. I am seriously thinking about doing phase one of the south beach diet and seeing where that takes me. Its for two weeks but something has got to work. I even tried the whole 80/20 rule and its still not budging the scale. In fact I gained back 4 of the 5lbs I lost since being on this site!0
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I personally "eat clean" as much as possible simply because those foods have more nutrients for less calories. Compare 240 calories of chicken breast vs 240 calories of ice cream. Eating "clean" is just a tool to help me stay within my calories and macros as much as possible. That said, I see no reason not to eat certain foods. I eat the ice cream, chocolate, chips, popcorn, etc. I just try to fit it into my weekly goals.0
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Clean eating is a load of crap. There is no such thing as good food or bad food. Every food has an application.
Most people eat like athletes and sit on their butts all day. This makes them fat and unhealthy.
Individual items of food should not be takes out of the context of a diet. There are good and bad diets, but the individual foods within the diet are quality neutral.
People are fond of demonizing foods. What they should be demonizing is THEIR stupid decisions regarding their diet and how appropriate or inapproriate it is for their lifestyle. Don't blame foods for your stupidity.
Food X never makes you healthy or unhealthy unless it is acutely poisonous.0 -
I think both sides are too dramatic. There is much more to nutrition than calories- but you don't need to "eat clean" whatever that means, all the time either. There's a happy middle ground that you can find where you eat a well balanced and nutritious diet- and still enjoy some of the treats that you like.
My philosophy is to get protein first, eat as many fruits and vegetables as possible, some whole grains, and use the excess calories however you wish. It's a very sustainable approach- does not at all feel like a diet.
This ^^^^^^^^
Not all calories are equal nutritionally. But at the same time, at the end of the day, make sure you have your nutrients for the day, and hopefully you enjoyed your food.
Protein is the hardest for me, so it is priority, then fiber. I work in as many veggies as I can (usually dinner), then I usually end up with 200-400 "freebie" calories to spend how I choose. Sometimes I use them on dessert and sometimes I just eat some extra bread or have a bowl of cereal. (Or if it was like last night, and I wasn't even home long enough to get in my workout, they go uneaten. "How can you have your pudding, if you don't do your workout?"
)
This is what makes me happy, and I have burned an inch of fat a week, adding regular exercise into the mix.0 -
I'm ignoring all the other posts and just answering your question. I'm a big believer in experimenting and switching things up when you've hit a plateau.
If you've stalled out, why not try something different for a month?0
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