Sugar Doesn't Prevent Weight Loss

Acg67

? I don't know where you went to medical school, but that's what they taught us at Duke. I trust my credentials.

Twenty-four-hour endocrine and metabolic profiles following consumption of high-fructose corn syrup-, sucrose-, fructose-, and glucose-sweetened beverages with meals
http://www.ajcn.org/content/87/5/1194.full

xarge

I'm at 45% carbs. So I guess that's a mid-carb diet? :bigsmile:

I guess we can say that :laugh: On the topic, how do you think you'd fare if you were taking more carbs and less protein/fat? As for me, under a decent protein intake, I find myself craving for more simple carbs (sweet teeth anonymous :grumble:).

skonly

Makes sense...but...BUT...

...was there any mention of number of/intensity of cravings of the test subjects dependent on their different diets?

I've always thought that actual weight loss was a simple CICO thing, but that the composition of our diets likely affects other aspects of our lives like cravings (quantity and quality), hormonal balance, overall health, etc.

(Yeah, I'm too busy/lazy to actually read the studies to figure it out myself.)

As a victim of a sweet tooth, I can attest that the less junk food I eat, the less I crave it. But the anti-sugar crowd often lumps fruit into the evil category. I eat fruit daily, usually at least five servings in a smoothie. That doesn't trigger cravings at all.

Yes! I eat fruit too. I get so tired of sugar haters. lol. Eating fruit with sugar is a lot different than eating cupcakes with sugar. As I said on another thread I found it crazy when a person who weighs 300 lbs blames it all on eating too much fruit. Seriously?

Yes, sugar may be sugar but unless it is in fruit or something that can be picked or pulled and eaten right away it will almost always be in an item with fat and tons of empty calories. That is where the difference is!

Look at all the people on here arguing. It's so funny. Wonder if it will be like the milk thread. lol.

The one thing that stands out the most to me since I've joined this site is how people react at the very thought of giving something up. You could insert any hot political issues in most of these threads and not skip a beat. The milk thread alone is as bad as a gun control fight. Geez people, it's food. Lighten up. No need to have a war.

skonly

Why do people consistently equate "high sugar" with "high carb"? I believe there may be a difference. (Or perhaps the problem is that my belief is wrong.)

Personally, I am very anti-added sugar, but I am certainly not anti-carb (and am in fact probably pro-carb). I'm just pickier about the source of my carbs.

Stop making sense. lol.

NWCountryGal

I agree, I don't think any one food(or non food)is what makes a person fat, it's inactivity and eating too much. I do believe in balance but I have not "written" sugar out of my diet. Lots of people do and that's cool, I can't say it is enjoyable to see anyone overeat and underexercise but I do believe in our ability to make our own choices:)

denise

This brand new study fed the overweight/obese subjects fructose at the 25th and 50th percentile of typical population intake, as both sucrose and High Fructose Corn Syrup for 12 weeks. Weight loss was not impaired, and there was no difference in weight or fat loss between sucrose and HFCS. All the groups experienced similar decreases in total cholesterol, triglycerides, and LDL cholesterol.

Abstract: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22866961

Full Text: http://www.nutritionj.com/content/pdf/1475-2891-11-55.pdf

AlabasterVerve

? I don't know where you went to medical school, but that's what they taught us at Duke. I trust my credentials.

Twenty-four-hour endocrine and metabolic profiles following consumption of high-fructose corn syrup-, sucrose-, fructose-, and glucose-sweetened beverages with meals
http://www.ajcn.org/content/87/5/1194.full

Aww. It sounded good though. lol

betsywalton

Carbohydrates are composed of four groups: monosachs, disachs, oligosachs, and polysachs. Monosachs are least complex and are the most readily absorbable forms of carbs (examples are glucose and fructose as stand-alone molecules). The more complex the carb, the more work your body must do to digest it—and the longer that takes. Fiber, such as that found in veggies or brown rice, is a carb, but it requires a great deal of work for the body to break it down, thus it does not significantly impact blood sugar—it takes a long time to be reduced to a form that can be absorbed by the gut and thus enters the vascular system slowly. Sucrose, a disach, absorbs more quickly than more complex carbs, but does require more time and energy to metabolize than the immediately available fructose and glucose present in monosach form in HFCS.

Too much fructose or glucose (the un-bonded ingredients in HFCS) being made available over too short a period of time causes the blood sugar spikes that concern us with anyone at risk of developing Type 2 diabetes. When HFCS is ingested and blood sugar spikes, insulin is released by the pancreas to carry sugar molecules into the cells. In Type 2 diabetes this uptake process is impaired or disabled by the “resistance” to insulin at cell receptors. When this occurs, the liver inappropriately responds to the perceived cellular starvation (non uptake of carb) by releasing more glucose into the blood which then perpetuates and/or exacerbates the existing high blood sugar situation. High blood sugar leads to diabetes and is co-morbid in hyperlipidemia, coronary disease, PAD, and a host of other serious ills.

So….the more highly bio-available (simple) formats of fructose and glucose absorbed more rapidly by the gut when presented with HFCS compared to presentation of more complex carbohydrates is why the statement that your body does not know the difference between different types of sugars is false. It does, it metabolizes them differently, and that is why you can eat celery all day long and probably not get fat, but would be fairly certain to gain weight drinking regular pop. That said, neither HFCS nor sucrose is really good for you and should be limited in any diet.

betsywalton

it's not the 24 hour profile we worry about, my friend, it's the spikes. You missed it. Nice try.

betsywalton

You simply demonstrated that the body eventually removes the sugar from the blood, but ignored the mechanism by which that occurs.

myfitnessnmhoy

I do wish they wouldn't mix the sexes in these studies, it makes the variance of most parameters far bigger than it need be and consequently it's harder to find statistical significance.

But it makes the exercise more fun.

Acg67

it's not the 24 hour profile we worry about, my friend, it's the spikes. You missed it. Nice try.

Look at the graphs and read the study again

One of the issues with high fructose corn syrup is that when metabolized, it causes spikes in blood sugar well beyond those of sucrose (table sugar).

Were the spikes in blood glucose and insulin significantly different?

FireBrand80

Carbohydrates are composed of four groups: monosachs, disachs, oligosachs, and polysachs. Monosachs are least complex and are the most readily absorbable forms of carbs (examples are glucose and fructose as stand-alone molecules). The more complex the carb, the more work your body must do to digest it—and the longer that takes. Fiber, such as that found in veggies or brown rice, is a carb, but it requires a great deal of work for the body to break it down, thus it does not significantly impact blood sugar—it takes a long time to be reduced to a form that can be absorbed by the gut and thus enters the vascular system slowly. Sucrose, a disach, absorbs more quickly than more complex carbs, but does require more time and energy to metabolize than the immediately available fructose and glucose present in monosach form in HFCS.

Too much fructose or glucose (the un-bonded ingredients in HFCS) being made available over too short a period of time causes the blood sugar spikes that concern us with anyone at risk of developing Type 2 diabetes. When HFCS is ingested and blood sugar spikes, insulin is released by the pancreas to carry sugar molecules into the cells. In Type 2 diabetes this uptake process is impaired or disabled by the “resistance” to insulin at cell receptors. When this occurs, the liver inappropriately responds to the perceived cellular starvation (non uptake of carb) by releasing more glucose into the blood which then perpetuates and/or exacerbates the existing high blood sugar situation. High blood sugar leads to diabetes and is co-morbid in hyperlipidemia, coronary disease, PAD, and a host of other serious ills.

So….the more highly bio-available (simple) formats of fructose and glucose absorbed more rapidly by the gut when presented with HFCS compared to presentation of more complex carbohydrates is why the statement that your body does not know the difference between different types of sugars is false. It does, it metabolizes them differently, and that is why you can eat celery all day long and probably not get fat, but would be fairly certain to gain weight drinking regular pop. That said, neither HFCS nor sucrose is really good for you and should be limited in any diet.

Is protein similarly dangerous?

AllTehBeers

So….the more highly bio-available (simple) formats of fructose and glucose absorbed more rapidly by the gut when presented with HFCS compared to presentation of more complex carbohydrates is why the statement that your body does not know the difference between different types of sugars is false. It does, it metabolizes them differently, and that is why you can eat celery all day long and probably not get fat, but would be fairly certain to gain weight drinking regular pop. That said, neither HFCS nor sucrose is really good for you and should be limited in any diet.

I don't get how just because one is absorbed faster, there is a difference. The same amount of insulin would be released no matter how quick the sugars were metabolized. Also, you have to realize eating your body weight in celery would not even come close to the calories in a pastry. You would probably not get fat because you are hardly eating.

xarge

it's not the 24 hour profile we worry about, my friend, it's the spikes. You missed it. Nice try.

You said this:

One of the issues with high fructose corn syrup is that when metabolized, it causes spikes in blood sugar well beyond those of sucrose (table sugar).

Acg posted graphs showing identical insulin responses for HFCS and sucrose. If you're familiar with graphs, you can see that it's not about 24 hour window.

Further study on non-obese women showing no difference in their free glucose, insulin, ghrelin and leptin levels between HFCS and sucrose: http://www.stashakucel.com/files/MelansonNutritionFeb2007-1.pdf

ETA: wrong link

mmapags

Bump for later.

betsywalton

??No protein is not dangerous. It is also not a carbohydrate. Proteins are nitrogen based compounds.

betsywalton

Acg posted graphs showing response of several substances including glucose, triglycerides, and insulin. It shows the response pre and post prandial to meals consumed throughout the day. I agree with you that neither substance is great, my stance, which is correct, is that they are not metabolized the same. Thus, one cannot claim that "sugar is sugar." Similar argument would be to say "salt is salt" but anyone who substitutes NaCl for KCl would disaagree with that. Different salts, different mechanisms of elimination, different effect at the kidney, heart, etc.

betsywalton

Insulin spikes when glucose is consumed. We expect that....your question is rather strange.

betsywalton

Because HFCS absorbs more rapidly. It is more bio available. If you think in extremes, many veggies are carbs/fibers (which are very complex carb chains). If you eat them all day long you likely won't gain weight. That is because they take a large amount of energy to digest (they burn calories to absorb) and they can't enter your bloodstream until they are broken down to their most simple molecular structure. That takes a long time, so they enter slowly. With a functioning pancreas, insulin will release when blood sugar levels go up high enough and fast enough to trigger it. Insulin always follows glucose in a non-diabetic. What happens in Type 2 diabetes is not an insulin problem, it's a problem with cell receptors response to the insulin. The insulin acts as a transport mechanism for glucose to enter the cell, it needs a receptor (like a doorway) to get into the cell. With Type 2, those receptors are not working as effectively as in a non-diabetic. The receptors become "resistant" to insulin because they are so barraged by constant insulin levels attempting to bring down blood sugar. Eventually we have to give oral meds to these folks to cause cellular receptivity and allow the insulin to do it's work. Neither sucrose nor HFCS is good in excess, but they do metabolize with different profiles. HFCS is absorbed when it hits your gut--that's why you see kids eating oranges and not candy bars at soccer games for energy--that fructose hits their system NOW and they have energy. Candy bars would work, but they take longer because your body must first break down the more complex sucrose into fructose and glucose and THEN it can be used as fuel.

betsywalton

I don't get how just because one is absorbed faster, there is a difference. The same amount of insulin would be released no matter how quick the sugars were metabolized. Also, you have to realize eating your body weight in celery would not even come close to the calories in a pastry. You would probably not get fat because you are hardly eating.

I would never recommend eating your body weight in celery. Your comparison to pastry involves calories. A calorie is a measure of heat (energy). A donut generates more heat (calories) than a veggie because it is a less complex carb. It also has fat, a different compound, but which is appx 9X more energy dense than a carb. You get fat eating donuts if you do not increase physical activity to burn off those calories because your body does not eliminate those extra fuel units without it. That sugar hits your blood very quickly, your body metabolizes it, and then stores it as glycogen in the liver or muscles or converts it to triglycerides (fat).