Few questions (cheat day sabotage) body fat to muscle gain

BloodGeist

Hey everyone,

A couple of questions or thoughts have been on my mind for a while and im at the point to where im debating to change my excersize routine and calorie intake but before I do I was hopeing for some help.

My first one is about cheat days/meals and the impact it can have on your results. Personally, I have to have them. Mine are always and only on sundays and never consist of one cheat meal or snack. I am guilty as charged to say I love to go out with my girlfriend and my son (usually to a resteraunt) and have nice meals that i know far exceed my calorie intake goal. Its also a way for us to go out and spend time together and etc. I never record on sundays on mfp because i already know i will be in the red. So after working out from mon-sat for an hour minimum. (mod,wed and friday strength) and (tues,thursd and sat cardio) could one day really offest all the hard work accomplished?

My diary is open to the public but in a nutshell my regime is 1500 calorie limit (i eat all my exc. calories). typically on my cardio days i burn between 700-800 calories and when i strength train i usually burn between 250-350 give or take.


For my second question is is it possible to lose weight and gain muscle to the point where it wont move the scale? Meaning I am building muscle and losing fat but the scale doesnt go down? I know muscle weighs more then fat. I also know the scale is the enemy and its not 100% true measurement of readings. I am trying to determine if i need to adjust my workout routine and calorie intake. I know and feel im getting stronger and def have more energy. My clothes are seeming slowly getting a little more loose but i feel i should be a little further along. So far ive lost about 10lbs and seem to have stalled out and my results feel slowed down. So i didnt know if it was possible to gain muscle that fast and lose weight to negate the scale?

Thank you

jfan175

Unless you're really new to the game, you're not going to build muscle at the same rate you're losing fat.

EatClean_WashUrNuts

Cheat days are fine.
Muscle conversion from fat takes time. Stop focusing on the number.

kiachu

muscle doesn't weigh more than fat. It takes up less space. So a pound of muscle will take up less space than a pound of fat but its still a pound.

The only way to tell if your replacing body fat with muscle is to get your body fat measures and tracked over a period of time.

Ange_

Sounds to me like you are eating FAR too little, especially given the amount of exercise you are doing. This is probably going to make your 'Cheat Days' even more disastrous as your body is probably in starvation mode and the minute you give it lots of food on a Sunday it is going to store every little bit of it up for later when it knows you'll be starving again.

If you ate more you wouldn't need cheat days because you wouldn't feel deprived and could probably work your restaurant meals into your allowance.

Also as others have said you can't build muscle when you are at a deficit. You can only make what you have stronger, and help preserved some of the muscle getting wasted away while you diet.
So if the scale isn't moving it just reinforces the fact you are in starvation mode and are at a plateau. Eating more should fix that.

Check out:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/forums/show/3834-eat-more-to-weigh-less

IrishDaveRed

muscle doesn't weigh more than fat. It takes up less space. So a pound of muscle will take up less space than a pound of fat but its still a pound.

If you are going to be that pedantic you can't say muscle replaces fat as muscle is attached to bones whereas fat is not.

Of course if you speak like a normal human both phrases are perfectly understood.

kiachu

Err who are you and what did I do to you today? I don't know you.

And you show me where I said muscle replaces fat?

ninick

cheat days are good for you but you dont' have to eat "Way more than you're allow every weekend" and feel guilty afterwards

a better approach is to enjoy the moment of spending time with love ones and enjoy the food in front of you., when you take the time to eat and enjoy, you actually get filled up faster and won't have to feel guilty.

This will be hard but after a few months, you'll be able to do it, I have my cheat weekend every week but I enjoy everything I eat in "good amount" (till I'm full not stuffed) and things are still going fine.
hope this helps

Athena98501

Hey everyone,

A couple of questions or thoughts have been on my mind for a while and im at the point to where im debating to change my excersize routine and calorie intake but before I do I was hopeing for some help.

My first one is about cheat days/meals and the impact it can have on your results. Personally, I have to have them. Mine are always and only on sundays and never consist of one cheat meal or snack. I am guilty as charged to say I love to go out with my girlfriend and my son (usually to a resteraunt) and have nice meals that i know far exceed my calorie intake goal. Its also a way for us to go out and spend time together and etc. I never record on sundays on mfp because i already know i will be in the red. So after working out from mon-sat for an hour minimum. (mod,wed and friday strength) and (tues,thursd and sat cardio) could one day really offest all the hard work accomplished?

My diary is open to the public but in a nutshell my regime is 1500 calorie limit (i eat all my exc. calories). typically on my cardio days i burn between 700-800 calories and when i strength train i usually burn between 250-350 give or take.


For my second question is is it possible to lose weight and gain muscle to the point where it wont move the scale? Meaning I am building muscle and losing fat but the scale doesnt go down? I know muscle weighs more then fat. I also know the scale is the enemy and its not 100% true measurement of readings. I am trying to determine if i need to adjust my workout routine and calorie intake. I know and feel im getting stronger and def have more energy. My clothes are seeming slowly getting a little more loose but i feel i should be a little further along. So far ive lost about 10lbs and seem to have stalled out and my results feel slowed down. So i didnt know if it was possible to gain muscle that fast and lose weight to negate the scale?

Thank you

One thing I would recommend is working out your TDEE, if you haven't already (you'll probably be surprised at the number). If I were you, I would try to stay within your TDEE on your "cheat" days. I would log on those days, as well, and just put a note in my diary that day saying you were aiming to stay within your TDEE.

ETA: Eating over your TDEE will be absolutely cancel out some of your hard work.

chrisdavey

Sounds to me like you are eating FAR too little, especially given the amount of exercise you are doing. This is probably going to make your 'Cheat Days' even more disastrous as your body is probably in starvation mode and the minute you give it lots of food on a Sunday it is going to store every little bit of it up for later when it knows you'll be starving again.

If you ate more you wouldn't need cheat days because you wouldn't feel deprived and could probably work your restaurant meals into your allowance.

Also as others have said you can't build muscle when you are at a deficit. You can only make what you have stronger, and help preserved some of the muscle getting wasted away while you diet.
So if the scale isn't moving it just reinforces the fact you are in starvation mode and are at a plateau. Eating more should fix that.

Check out:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/forums/show/3834-eat-more-to-weigh-less

I don't know where to begin with this one.

OP: checkout the spike diet group. You sound like a perfect candidate for it.

1. Yes you're cheat day can cancel out you're deficit if it is big enough. Say you are at 500 cal deficit a day for 6 days and then you're cheat day is 3000 over. That is maintenance cals for the week and "should" mean that no weight loss/gain will happen. Scale will still move because of food in the gut & water weight changes etc.

2. That is a body recomp and is a very slow way of doing it. Focus on cutting the fat while maintaining as much strength as possible or if you are at a BF% you are happy with the up the cals and focus on gaining strength/size. One or the other. Trying to do both at the same time will inevitably leave you "spinning you're wheels".

AnvilHead

...For my second question is is it possible to lose weight and gain muscle to the point where it wont move the scale? Meaning I am building muscle and losing fat but the scale doesnt go down? I know muscle weighs more then fat. I also know the scale is the enemy and its not 100% true measurement of readings. I am trying to determine if i need to adjust my workout routine and calorie intake. I know and feel im getting stronger and def have more energy. My clothes are seeming slowly getting a little more loose but i feel i should be a little further along. So far ive lost about 10lbs and seem to have stalled out and my results feel slowed down. So i didnt know if it was possible to gain muscle that fast and lose weight to negate the scale?

Read this article, I think it will help answer your question:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html

IrishDaveRed

The only way to tell if your replacing body fat with muscle is to...

kiachu

Yes pertaining to getting body fat tested. Not in what you quoted.

So in regards to answering the OPs questions and assumptions what do you have to add besides honing in my reponse?

BloodGeist

Thank you everyone for the informative help and support. I know i have more questions and homework and research to do but before I ask them I need to look more into articles and such.

BloodGeist

I think I am going to stay on course of what I am doing and put a little more time in to get more of an average and data. I feel like an idiot for not realizing it sooner but the reality is ive been working out for 6 weeks (with 1 week off due to obligations), so to already jump to conclusions and such is unrealistic considering i havent been at it for that long. So far I have lost about 12 lbs which is about 2lbs per week which i know is excellent.

I am just really struggling and wanting to do everything that I can right. This will be the third time going down this road for me and I just want to do it right. The first two times I lost a lot of weight, I only did a strict 1500 calorie limit with about 3 miles of jogging everyday but sunday. I was able to lose the weight but Ive always wanted to build some muscle and get a little stronger, hence why I am doing it this time.

Thanks again everyone for your help and input, as well as links to articles and more.

kiachu

I think I am going to stay on course of what I am doing and put a little more time in to get more of an average and data. I feel like an idiot for not realizing it sooner but the reality is ive been working out for 6 weeks (with 1 week off due to obligations), so to already jump to conclusions and such is unrealistic considering i havent been at it for that long. So far I have lost about 12 lbs which is about 2lbs per week which i know is excellent.

I am just really struggling and wanting to do everything that I can right. This will be the third time going down this road for me and I just want to do it right. The first two times I lost a lot of weight, I only did a strict 1500 calorie limit with about 3 miles of jogging everyday but sunday. I was able to lose the weight but Ive always wanted to build some muscle and get a little stronger, hence why I am doing it this time.

Thanks again everyone for your help and input, as well as links to articles and more.

Your right, just keep at it. You'll get there. And when you reach your goal weight or like where you are, if you want to add more muscle you can just eat a little bit over maintenance and lift and lift and lift.

chrisdavey

I'd recommend lifting while in calorie deficit also. You may not "build" muscle but will definitely help retain what you have. (Easier than building new muscle)

Kebby83

I have noticed that when I "mess up" and binge then I will only lose 1lb or so (this week for example) but the next week - when I got back on track - I lose 3 or 4 lbs. So. It might even help in the long run. The thing is - this isn't a race. It isn't "the biggest loser' where you gotta make that 10lbs loss in 14 days. It's life. Life includes chips. And going out with your family and eating unhealthy junk on a Sunday. Don't stress it. I get really upset that I just ate some chocolate. Like, what the hell. It tasted good, it didn't kill me. I have lost 70lbs and my life will include some damn chocolate.

jofjltncb6

I can't stand it, I know you planned it
I'm gonna set it straight, this watergate
I can't stand rockin' when I'm in here
Because your crystal ball ain't so crystal clear

LiftHuff

As a 28 year old male, it is very hard to believe that 1500 calories/day net is adequate for you. I'd try using the following site to set some new guidelines...

http://www.1percentedge.com/ifcalc/

Helloitsdan

In a perfect world we can burn fat and build muscle and look great doing it.
Unfortunately its not the case for most.

Cut till you get to 10-13% BF then build from there.
Eat right and give fat a reason not to exist.

BloodGeist

I know I have to keep reminding myself everyday that this isnt a race but a long/life time goal change and comitment. Even for days I dont feel like working out, i force myself and keep telling myself "doing something is better than nothing".

LiftHuff - The reason I went with 1500 is because i did in the past twice and it seemed to work for me and was my magic number but I suspect the more i research and read, the more likely I will have to increase my calorie intake.

Kebby83 - I know exactly what you mean and thats why I dont feel so bad for having my sunday cheat days. I want to and am eatting better then I ever was in the past but I also want to enjoy life to lol. Especially with football coming up, I want to be able to relax and enjoy myself.

Thanks again everyone for the great help and support.

chrisdavey

learn to "healthify" you're recipes for Sunday football. Can save a lot of cals doing this.

THe thing is if you start at 1500cals then what happens when you stop losing? That's what Dan is saying about not getting too close to BMR. If you start at 2500 e.g. you still have room to move when things plateau.