"Starvation mode", exercise calories, dillema?

amathis551

relatively new to this site. Can someon please explain what in the world bump means? Sorry if this is common knowledge but i don't read posts so I don't get it.

SHBoss1673

relatively new to this site. Can someon please explain what in the world bump means? Sorry if this is common knowledge but i don't read posts so I don't get it.

bump is just a way to push a topic back to the top of the most recent posts list. It's a way for people who want to talk about a post or get it noticed to bring it back up.

rozzyrasp

This is a really interesting post. However, I am a little confused and would really appreciate your advice please.
According to MFP my daily calories to lose weight should be 1,200. However, my BMR is calculated as 1,614. So what should I go by to lose weight?

SHBoss1673

This is a really interesting post. However, I am a little confused and would really appreciate your advice please.
According to MFP my daily calories to lose weight should be 1,200. However, my BMR is calculated as 1,614. So what should I go by to lose weight?

I'll give you this advice. Then if you can't answer any questions, feel free to follow up and I'll help you figure it out as best I can.

How much of a deficit you should have is really based on how much fat your body has, and in the absence of knowing your body fat %, doing as thorough a job figuring out your maintenance weight as you can. So what you need to find out is your body fat % or where you fall in the body health scale (I.E. are you clinically obese, just overweight, of healthy weight, or underweight). Really this should be the determining factor on your deficit).

MFP will give you a deficit based on what you thought you want to lose when you use the goals wizard. If you say you want to lose 2 lbs a week, it will give you 2 lbs a week regardless of whether that is a good deficit for you individually. The only caveat to this is that MFP will not set your total calories below 1200 using the wizard (you can do this using the custom button if you like, but I caution against that for most people unless you've done careful research into your body and have very good reasons why you are doing this).

So, that being said, if you're obese, odds are you can support a large deficit that usually ends up below your BMR, if you're overweight, being around or even above your BMR is generally where you should be, people in the healthy weight range that just want to lose some fat and become even healthier should be somewhere above BMR, usually in the 85 to 90% of their TDEE calories, and of course, people who are clinically underweight (for women that's a body fat % of less than about 13%, for men that's a body fat % of about 6%) should be at or above their TDEE depending on whether they want to maintain, gain lean mass, or even gain a little fat (yes, there are reasons for doing this last part).

Now, if all this is a bit much to take in, please feel free to private message me and we can work out your individual best guess estimates and tell whether you're on the right track.

hope this helps.

Tiff1124

Bump

BrianSharpe

The body is fully in "panic mode" now. Storage of fat is a primary concern to the point where now both protein and carbohydrates coming in are shunted off in large amounts to fat storage.

I haven't read all 15 pages of replies and have no disagreement that the body has an adaptive response to long term caloric deprivation but could you cite your source for the evidence that your body stores additional fat while at a caloric deficit?

SHBoss1673

The body is fully in "panic mode" now. Storage of fat is a primary concern to the point where now both protein and carbohydrates coming in are shunted off in large amounts to fat storage.

I haven't read all 15 pages of replies and have no disagreement that the body has an adaptive response to long term caloric deprivation but could you cite your source for the evidence that your body stores additional fat while at a caloric deficit?

already done so, I've posted my sources. Please go back and look through the 15 pages of responses.

BrianSharpe

The body is fully in "panic mode" now. Storage of fat is a primary concern to the point where now both protein and carbohydrates coming in are shunted off in large amounts to fat storage.

I haven't read all 15 pages of replies and have no disagreement that the body has an adaptive response to long term caloric deprivation but could you cite your source for the evidence that your body stores additional fat while at a caloric deficit?

already done so, I've posted my sources. Please go back and look through the 15 pages of responses.

Chapter & page number where this assertion is made? (that your body will store fat while eating at a caloric deficit)

As I said before no reasonable person would suggest that our body does not adapt to caloric deficits and will make every effort to conserve energy what I'm specifically questioning is the assertion that the human body is capable of defying the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics and store energy reserves while expending more energy than is being consumed (I'd love a car that could do this......I'd never have to put fuel in the tank......)

bonniejo

I'm currently at 1600-1700 calories a day with cardio (Zumba, step) 4-5 days a week, and planning to add in pilates and weights soon. Does that sound about right?

sonyayoung18

my first ever bump

SHBoss1673

The body is fully in "panic mode" now. Storage of fat is a primary concern to the point where now both protein and carbohydrates coming in are shunted off in large amounts to fat storage.

I haven't read all 15 pages of replies and have no disagreement that the body has an adaptive response to long term caloric deprivation but could you cite your source for the evidence that your body stores additional fat while at a caloric deficit?

already done so, I've posted my sources. Please go back and look through the 15 pages of responses.

Chapter & page number where this assertion is made? (that your body will store fat while eating at a caloric deficit)

As I said before no reasonable person would suggest that our body does not adapt to caloric deficits and will make every effort to conserve energy what I'm specifically questioning is the assertion that the human body is capable of defying the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics and store energy reserves while expending more energy than is being consumed (I'd love a car that could do this......I'd never have to put fuel in the tank......)

these aren't books, they're research studies, so chapter and verse is not a valid argument. And the statement does not violate the 2nd law of thermodynamics, as muscle is an energy supply, as is all lean tissue (protein supplies 4 calories per gram of energy, same as carbohydrates).
I put all the links on page 12 if you want to skip to it (yep, I went back through 12 pages to find where I posted it).
Although if you do want to read a book that covers all of this, check out

Advanced Nutrition and Human Metabolism (6th edition now, I read 5th but I doubt that much has changed since last year), you can find it at Barnes & Noble. Fair warning, it's expensive, it's a masters level college book and the whole first half is basically advanced organic chemistry and Human Anatomy, so if you don't understand that stuff to a degree, it'll feel like reading a different language.

SHBoss1673

I'm currently at 1600-1700 calories a day with cardio (Zumba, step) 4-5 days a week, and planning to add in pilates and weights soon. Does that sound about right?

Oh, no idea, I'd have to know you individually to be able to answer that.

SHBoss1673

The body is fully in "panic mode" now. Storage of fat is a primary concern to the point where now both protein and carbohydrates coming in are shunted off in large amounts to fat storage.

I haven't read all 15 pages of replies and have no disagreement that the body has an adaptive response to long term caloric deprivation but could you cite your source for the evidence that your body stores additional fat while at a caloric deficit?

already done so, I've posted my sources. Please go back and look through the 15 pages of responses.

Chapter & page number where this assertion is made? (that your body will store fat while eating at a caloric deficit)

As I said before no reasonable person would suggest that our body does not adapt to caloric deficits and will make every effort to conserve energy what I'm specifically questioning is the assertion that the human body is capable of defying the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics and store energy reserves while expending more energy than is being consumed (I'd love a car that could do this......I'd never have to put fuel in the tank......)

for the record, my favorite and clearest citation of this concept is here
http://journals.cambridge.org/download.php?file=/41538_60A51E13E935A0A792846B3124C10AB7_journals__PNS_PNS54_01_S0029665195000255a.pdf&cover=Y&code=eea4565808719a54e051a6bcc1b17fc3

and from the section called Energy metabolism in starvation and underfeeding

This is one of the summary paragraphs that targest underfeeding and the conclusions reached

With underfeeding there is also a fall in resting energy expenditure which is manifest in
previously healthy women within 7 d of reducing their energy intake to 2 MJ/d (Mansell
& Macdonald, 1988). This fall in resting energy expenditure during prolonged underfeeding
and starvation is due in part to a reduction in the longer-term aspects of
food-induced thermogenesis, to a reduction in the amount of metabolically-active tissue
(due to mobilization of body protein stores) and a decrease in the metabolic activity of
the remaining tissue. This latter effect was originally described by Keys et al. (1950), who
showed a 16% fall in resting energy expenditure per unit body cell mass, and later
confirmed by Grande et al. (1958). There is some disagreement as to whether there are
similar reductions in resting energy expenditure per unit metabolically-active tissue
occurring in experimental animals; for example, Even & Nicolaidis (1993) failed to see
any reduction in basal energy expenditure of rats severely underfed for 10 d.

bonniejo

I'm currently at 1600-1700 calories a day with cardio (Zumba, step) 4-5 days a week, and planning to add in pilates and weights soon. Does that sound about right?

Oh, no idea, I'd have to know you individually to be able to answer that.

What information do you need? I am 22, female, about 130 pounds, and 5 feet 4 inches tall. I have a 26.5 in waist, 35 in hips, and my body fat changes depending on the calculator I use, but I think it's just under 25%. I just want to make sure I'm doing this right

Danielle817

bump for later!

SHBoss1673

I'm currently at 1600-1700 calories a day with cardio (Zumba, step) 4-5 days a week, and planning to add in pilates and weights soon. Does that sound about right?

Oh, no idea, I'd have to know you individually to be able to answer that.

What information do you need? I am 22, female, about 130 pounds, and 5 feet 4 inches tall. I just want to make sure I'm doing this right

well, that helps a little, but even with those numbers, it's a best guess type of situation. that being said, assuming you are burning 3 to 400 calories with your cardio, that sounds reasonable. I would think your TDEE is somewhere between 1800 and 2000 calories, thus adding cardio you're TDEE is probably about 21 to 2500 calories, assuming you're not on the high end then 1700 would probably work, 1600 might be a bit low, but again, it's really hard to tell without really getting into a more in depth conversation and then testing things out.

dpkasprzak

**Bump**

tracymat

Bump

gingah73

Thank you!

BrianSharpe

The body is fully in "panic mode" now. Storage of fat is a primary concern to the point where now both protein and carbohydrates coming in are shunted off in large amounts to fat storage.

I haven't read all 15 pages of replies and have no disagreement that the body has an adaptive response to long term caloric deprivation but could you cite your source for the evidence that your body stores additional fat while at a caloric deficit?

already done so, I've posted my sources. Please go back and look through the 15 pages of responses.

Chapter & page number where this assertion is made? (that your body will store fat while eating at a caloric deficit)

As I said before no reasonable person would suggest that our body does not adapt to caloric deficits and will make every effort to conserve energy what I'm specifically questioning is the assertion that the human body is capable of defying the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics and store energy reserves while expending more energy than is being consumed (I'd love a car that could do this......I'd never have to put fuel in the tank......)

for the record, my favorite and clearest citation of this concept is here
http://journals.cambridge.org/download.php?file=/41538_60A51E13E935A0A792846B3124C10AB7_journals__PNS_PNS54_01_S0029665195000255a.pdf&cover=Y&code=eea4565808719a54e051a6bcc1b17fc3

and from the section called Energy metabolism in starvation and underfeeding

This is one of the summary paragraphs that targest underfeeding and the conclusions reached

With underfeeding there is also a fall in resting energy expenditure which is manifest in
previously healthy women within 7 d of reducing their energy intake to 2 MJ/d (Mansell
& Macdonald, 1988). This fall in resting energy expenditure during prolonged underfeeding
and starvation is due in part to a reduction in the longer-term aspects of
food-induced thermogenesis, to a reduction in the amount of metabolically-active tissue
(due to mobilization of body protein stores) and a decrease in the metabolic activity of
the remaining tissue. This latter effect was originally described by Keys et al. (1950), who
showed a 16% fall in resting energy expenditure per unit body cell mass, and later
confirmed by Grande et al. (1958). There is some disagreement as to whether there are
similar reductions in resting energy expenditure per unit metabolically-active tissue
occurring in experimental animals; for example, Even & Nicolaidis (1993) failed to see
any reduction in basal energy expenditure of rats severely underfed for 10 d.

It states what we've agreed up, that the body adapts to the lower caloric intake by taking measures to conserve energy but I don't see anything in the paragraph quoted (the link doesn't seem to work) that suggests in any way that the body increases fat storage while at a caloric deficit.

Again, the logic is clearly governed by physics - you can't store what you didn't consume.