education going to pot

youallonsy

Is the education system in countries other than the U.S. declining, or is it just us?

DawnieB1977

I live in the UK, and I teach at a secondary school, and in my opinion the education system is most definitely declining. If I look through past exam papers for French (which is my subject) they were quite obviously harder 10+ years ago.

One of the biggest problems is attitudes towards learning. Kids are not interesting in doing work for themselves, they just want it all spoonfeeding to them. They don't seem capable of any independence. Plus Literacy levels are so low, which makes teaching a language pretty tough.

I do work in quite a deprived area though, with high unemployment, so I know that makes a difference.

MelStrey

All education systems fail when one considers that the information being delivered is abridged, and at worst, fictitious. Social conditioning, gender bias regarding subject acuity, an inability to modify classrooms for learning disabled or provide classes with special needs are only a very few failures. The lack of teacher pay and the bloated wages of higher school administrators is horrific... it has always and will continue to be part of an over-reaching bureaucracy that, at the very roots, is rotten.

However, parents are not blameless. They must correct the teacher and inform the child. Education does not stop outside the classroom. In fact, it begins at home and parents should remain vigilant.

Debbe2

Oh, sorry I thought you meant that literally

randomtai

Oh, sorry I thought you meant that literally

Ditto! :smokin:

DawnieB1977

All education systems fail when one considers that the information being delivered is abridged, and at worst, fictitious. Social conditioning, gender bias regarding subject acuity, an inability to modify classrooms for learning disabled or provide classes with special needs are only a very few failures. The lack of teacher pay and the bloated wages of higher school administrators is horrific... it has always and will continue to be part of an over-reaching bureaucracy that, at the very roots, is rotten.

However, parents are not blameless. They must correct the teacher and inform the child. Education does not stop outside the classroom. In fact, it begins at home and parents should remain vigilant.

How much do teachers earn in the US? We get quite a good salary in the UK.

We have quite an inclusive education system. My school has around 60% of pupils on the special needs register, and we have TAs (teaching assistants) who help those who need it. The school was built to accommodate pupils with mobility issues and has a lift (elevator) and wide corridors, and special tables in each classroom that can be raised to put a wheelchair underneath.

Also, how are schools assessed? Our schools are compared on results from GCSE exams (national exams taken at age 16). They look at the percentage gained from pupils achieving 5 or more A*-C grades including English and Maths.
We also have OfSTED (Office for standards in education) who come in and rate our schools by observing lessons, looking through data etc.

MelStrey

"Comparing each country’s teacher salaries to the wealth of that country makes United States educational salaries appear lower. In the United States, a teacher with 15 years of experience makes a salary that is 96 percent of the country’s gross domestic product per capita. Across the O.E.C.D., a teacher of equivalent experience makes 117 percent of G.D.P. per capita. At the high end of the scale, in Korea, the average teacher at this level makes a full 221 percent of the country’s G.D.P. per capita."
from this: http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/09/teacher-pay-around-the-world/ (article)

Children are assessed with similar tests throughout their education however those tests have now begun to dictate the information taught within the schools. In my opinion this is at detriment to learning. The teachers have no option to engage and indulge the intellectual pursuits of the students when there is barely enough time to educate what the US government has deemed appropriate to teach.

Furthermore, I studied at EdgeHill (Ormskirk) for a while before moving on to Trinity and I saw first hand the training UK teachers receive and it is nothing like the programs in the US. Sadly. UK teachers enter the workforce better equipped- in my opinion.

Also- School assessment is done based on the aptitude the students show on their tests. If I am not mistaken, government funding is withheld or special programs are instituted to provide help to reach goal.

You should read this article: http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/5189336-418/college-can-be-a-rude-remedial-awakening.html

" As many as one-third of students entering higher education need to take some sort of remedial or developmental course, a class in the basics of reading, English or math covering material they should have learned in high school, according to a recent report by the Alliance for Excellent Education, a Washington, D.C.-based policy group."

HurricaneElaine

Oh, sorry I thought you meant that literally

me too.. :ohwell:

pudadough

All education systems fail when one considers that the information being delivered is abridged, and at worst, fictitious. Social conditioning, gender bias regarding subject acuity, an inability to modify classrooms for learning disabled or provide classes with special needs are only a very few failures. The lack of teacher pay and the bloated wages of higher school administrators is horrific... it has always and will continue to be part of an over-reaching bureaucracy that, at the very roots, is rotten.

However, parents are not blameless. They must correct the teacher and inform the child. Education does not stop outside the classroom. In fact, it begins at home and parents should remain vigilant.

How much do teachers earn in the US? We get quite a good salary in the UK.

We have quite an inclusive education system. My school has around 60% of pupils on the special needs register, and we have TAs (teaching assistants) who help those who need it. The school was built to accommodate pupils with mobility issues and has a lift (elevator) and wide corridors, and special tables in each classroom that can be raised to put a wheelchair underneath.

Also, how are schools assessed? Our schools are compared on results from GCSE exams (national exams taken at age 16). They look at the percentage gained from pupils achieving 5 or more A*-C grades including English and Maths.
We also have OfSTED (Office for standards in education) who come in and rate our schools by observing lessons, looking through data etc.

I earn about $45,000 a year. But salary varies widely by state. I'm in Texas, which is largely non-union (rightly so.) I feel like a modest raise would be nice, but not crazy. I'm pretty good with my salary.

All public schools are legally required to be accessible and provide curriculum to all students with disabilities according to IDEA 2004 (legislation.) That's a federal law, so it is enforced in all states. Special Education provides accommodation for kids of all levels, from severely limited mobility and cognition, to Autism, ADHD and everything in between. Helping teachers work with SPED kids within core classes and on a one-on-one basis. Each SPED student has an individual case file (called an IEP) that details the specific accommodations that are legally required for that student.

Assessment varies by state, so I cannot comment on what other states do, but Texas has STAAR or State of Texas Assessments of Academic Readiness. And it's a beast. The questions on it would (and do) trip up college-educated professionals. I teach History, and my pre-determined curriculum has me explaining the delicate balances of pre-WWI political alliances and treaties to 11 year olds who watch iCarly. When I was that age, they were just defining the years the war took place and things like that. It's much harder now than it was. In my opinion, stupidly so. It misses the point. But I digress. Students take STAAR in different subject in different grades. They take Reading and Math every year but stagger other subjects.

Teachers are evaluated individually through a system of annual, weekly and monthly walkthroughs and evaluations called PDAS (professional development assessment system.) Continued employment depends on PDAS performance (in my district, anyway.) Schools in Texas are graded and ranked, through test score results, by TEA (Texas Education Agency) which I believe in turn reports to the Department of Education (the federal education agency in Washington.) Schools that perform below expectation receive intervention and federal funding. Schools with large economically disadvantaged populations receive Title 1 money, regardless of academic performance. Students take end of course exams and the PSAT/SAT as their qualifying score for college.

So that's the legal jibber-jabber part. Now the bigger issue for me: a lot of the country deals with unionized teachers. It's ridiculous, in my mind, that you cannot fire an inept teacher because you fear union backlash. Unions are mafia-like and should be outlawed as they relate to education. Tenure should be a thing of the past. I'm so glad I was never forced to join a union in order to become a teacher. If you suck at teaching, your job should not be protected. Period. But in a lot of the country, it is. That should change.

But then on the other hand, parents these days suck big time. If I call home to ask for help in getting a certain child to behave in my class, they always want to know what *I'm* doing to make little Johnny so mad/bored/spastic. The kids are incredibly entitled, never bring supplies, but somehow all have iPhones. You will have parents on the phone to administration if you dare to give their precious snowflake a B-. You know how it is.

JessigirlJb

Oh, sorry I thought you meant that literally

me too.. :ohwell:

and i have joined the team..

dub101

misread that lol

taunto

As somebody who have studied in 3 continents and lived all over the world, I think I qualify to answer this.

Asia: "STUDY OR YOU FAILED YOUR FAMILY, BROUGHT SHAME TO YOUR ELDERS AND FAMILY AND YOU WILL BE A LOW LIFE ALL YOUR LIFE". These are the things said to anyone who got less than A. Perfection isn't expected, its demanded and failure results not only in physical but emotional assault. This creates either (a) Really tough kids who know how to handle everything in life thrown at them and are dominating in every major field in the world or (b) commit suicides. Asian countries have last time I checked the highest suicide teen rate in the world and trust me, as somebody who lived there majority of his life, its not about their boyfriend not loving them. Parents are currently the biggest reason of teen suicide in Asian countries.

Europe: "Strive to become the best. We are champions and we owe it to the human race to give everything our best. We will give you the tools needed to succeed but also provide you outlets to not let you burnout". The UK education system is hard. VERY hard. But they realize that it can't be all work and no play. My experience in Europe was a perfect balance of hard work and having fun.

America: "You're all winners. No matter how much you suck, we'll still give you a trophy. No matter how crappy you do on papers, we'll still give you an A just so we keep getting that grants from government for no child left behind". There is a reason that a single country in Asia thats half the size of Michigan can create more undergrad students a year than all of US combined. The kids here are coddled beyond sense. Kids are the ones TELLING parents what to do and stuff. Parents leave all the responsibility to the teachers. Teachers who're underpaid, overworked and are constantly yelled at from every direction. Saying that American education system is failing is a huge understatement. Kids do not respect their elders, their teachers or understand that their actions have consequences. They have no sense of achievement or pride, no sense of hard work and no goal in life.

DMZ_1

There is a lot wrong with the US education system. Care to be more specific?

DawnieB1977

All education systems fail when one considers that the information being delivered is abridged, and at worst, fictitious. Social conditioning, gender bias regarding subject acuity, an inability to modify classrooms for learning disabled or provide classes with special needs are only a very few failures. The lack of teacher pay and the bloated wages of higher school administrators is horrific... it has always and will continue to be part of an over-reaching bureaucracy that, at the very roots, is rotten.

However, parents are not blameless. They must correct the teacher and inform the child. Education does not stop outside the classroom. In fact, it begins at home and parents should remain vigilant.

How much do teachers earn in the US? We get quite a good salary in the UK.

We have quite an inclusive education system. My school has around 60% of pupils on the special needs register, and we have TAs (teaching assistants) who help those who need it. The school was built to accommodate pupils with mobility issues and has a lift (elevator) and wide corridors, and special tables in each classroom that can be raised to put a wheelchair underneath.

Also, how are schools assessed? Our schools are compared on results from GCSE exams (national exams taken at age 16). They look at the percentage gained from pupils achieving 5 or more A*-C grades including English and Maths.
We also have OfSTED (Office for standards in education) who come in and rate our schools by observing lessons, looking through data etc.

I earn about $45,000 a year. But salary varies widely by state. I'm in Texas, which is largely non-union (rightly so.) I feel like a modest raise would be nice, but not crazy. I'm pretty good with my salary.

All public schools are legally required to be accessible and provide curriculum to all students with disabilities according to IDEA 2004 (legislation.) That's a federal law, so it is enforced in all states. Special Education provides accommodation for kids of all levels, from severely limited mobility and cognition, to Autism, ADHD and everything in between. Helping teachers work with SPED kids within core classes and on a one-on-one basis. Each SPED student has an individual case file (called an IEP) that details the specific accommodations that are legally required for that student.

Assessment varies by state, so I cannot comment on what other states do, but Texas has STAAR or State of Texas Assessments of Academic Readiness. And it's a beast. The questions on it would (and do) trip up college-educated professionals. I teach History, and my pre-determined curriculum has me explaining the delicate balances of pre-WWI political alliances and treaties to 11 year olds who watch iCarly. When I was that age, they were just defining the years the war took place and things like that. It's much harder now than it was. In my opinion, stupidly so. It misses the point. But I digress. Students take STAAR in different subject in different grades. They take Reading and Math every year but stagger other subjects.

Teachers are evaluated individually through a system of annual, weekly and monthly walkthroughs and evaluations called PDAS (professional development assessment system.) Continued employment depends on PDAS performance (in my district, anyway.) Schools in Texas are graded and ranked, through test score results, by TEA (Texas Education Agency) which I believe in turn reports to the Department of Education (the federal education agency in Washington.) Schools that perform below expectation receive intervention and federal funding. Schools with large economically disadvantaged populations receive Title 1 money, regardless of academic performance. Students take end of course exams and the PSAT/SAT as their qualifying score for college.

So that's the legal jibber-jabber part. Now the bigger issue for me: a lot of the country deals with unionized teachers. It's ridiculous, in my mind, that you cannot fire an inept teacher because you fear union backlash. Unions are mafia-like and should be outlawed as they relate to education. Tenure should be a thing of the past. I'm so glad I was never forced to join a union in order to become a teacher. If you suck at teaching, your job should not be protected. Period. But in a lot of the country, it is. That should change.

But then on the other hand, parents these days suck big time. If I call home to ask for help in getting a certain child to behave in my class, they always want to know what *I'm* doing to make little Johnny so mad/bored/spastic. The kids are incredibly entitled, never bring supplies, but somehow all have iPhones. You will have parents on the phone to administration if you dare to give their precious snowflake a B-. You know how it is.

I work part time, but full time my salary would be £32,000. I have 7 years experience, but because I've had 2 maternity leaves quite close together, I have not yet applied for the upper pay scale (you need evidence, performance management targets met etc). Had I not spent so much time off, I'd be on about £35,000 now.

We are not forced to join a union, but it is advisable to do so, because it is always a pupil's word against ours, and in society today you have to be so careful of accusations, so you need back-up. A colleague of mine was bullied by her head of department and her union rep helped her out so much. Without him she'd probably have left the school. Now she's head of department herself, and the bully ended up leaving.

If a teacher gets graded 'unsatisfactory' a couple of times then they will be given help to improve, but if they don't, they get put on competency, which basically gives them a period in which to improve. The problem with something like this is that some schools will use it to bully staff they dislike and want out.

I do think that teacher training in the UK is pretty tough. We have to do either a 1 year postgrad course, or a 4 year BA. I did the PGCE (postgrad) and we had to go to university and do loads of assignments, and also do 2 teaching practises, so it's a real combination of both academic and practical.

I can't speak for other countries except France (my degree is in French, and I lived there for a year), and their teacher training (Capes) is incredibly hard to get on to, but it's almost entirely academic, and from my experience being academic does not necessarily make you a good teacher. Obviously you need to be educated to degree standard.

I agree about the parents. I remember phoning because a Year 11 boy had not done his coursework. The dad's response: 'does he like your subject?'. WTF? I probably have to lend pens to at least half the class every lesson (an average class size is 30) and, like you say, several of them have iphones. The girls bring these tiny little bags, just big enough for their mobile phone and some make-up and an ipod. Why would you send your child to school without basic equipment? When I went to school we had to have everything, including a scientific calculator for Maths.

Like I said, kids take GCSE exams at 16, usually in about 10 subjects. Some schools have a 6th form, which is year 12 and 13, and some (like mine) do not, so kids have to go to college after. Bright kids will then do A Levels, usually in 4 subjects, and then they'll apply to university with their predicted grades. Unis like Oxford and Cambridge will require 4 A grades. You can also do vocational courses in things like business, hairdressing, construction etc at college.

It would be quite interesting to do a job exchange with a teacher in the US!