How to do proper standing one arm row - advice please

Doberdawn

Standing one arm row - I'm following a DVD on weight lifting. I stand by a chsir, bent over at hip joint with a flat "neutral" back", one hand on chair to support slightly, arm with weight straight & down loose by chair. I raise the weight up, elbow bent, to beside my ribs, then back down. 2 sets of 12 reps.

It says I should be using & feeling this in my back. I don't. It says if my arm gets tired I am probably using too much arm & not enough back. My arm does get tired. But I can't figure out how to change this to "use my back" more. Input please? Can you please describe the mechanism or motion better?

vtachycardia

Does yours look like this? --- http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/BackGeneral/DBBentOverRow.html

Different evidence but, when the arm is down you should be able to first engage your shoulder blade and then the arm starts the pull motion but anyone feeling your back in the middle or to the side should feel either your lats or rhomboid engaging throughout the movement. If they are not, try more weight.

But, your arm will always tire no matter what, you have to imagine all those large back muscles pulling the weight and not just your arm. You will make the "mind muscle connection" eventually, a matter or practise and patience.

Try a weight you cannot lift, you will feel the back muscles engage to try to move the weight.

Doberdawn

Mine doesn't exactly look like that because I'm using a chair instead of a weight bench. Sorta more like this http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=one+arm+row+with+chair&view=detail&id=C3D3FBA6ED7E991A1C7FC8E9BFA76D56D2671CF6&first=1

only with the hand on the seat of the chair. But, I did go back and try with a heavier weight and think I felt it a bit more. I will string more weight plates onto my dumbbell as I did not have any set up today that I "couldn't" lift. LOL But, I did try one that was twice as heavy and harder to lift and I think I felt it more in my back.

It is hard to decide how much weight to use right now while I'm learning form and just starting down my weight lifting journey.

provin1327

You should focus on squeezing your shoulder blade. Pretend someone has a hook in your shoulder and they are pulling on it, kinda like squeezing your shoulders together. Keeping your elbow stationary, not bending at the joint will remove your bicep from the movement.

Doberdawn

You should focus on squeezing your shoulder blade. Pretend someone has a hook in your shoulder and they are pulling on it, kinda like squeezing your shoulders together. Keeping your elbow stationary, not bending at the joint will remove your bicep from the movement.

Will try the tip on the squeezing shoulder blade, but.... umm, the arm starts out straight, down to the ground like... so at what point do you stop and "station" the elbow? Or do you start yours differently with a bent arm? I'm confused on the second tip.

Azdak

You should focus on squeezing your shoulder blade. Pretend someone has a hook in your shoulder and they are pulling on it, kinda like squeezing your shoulders together. Keeping your elbow stationary, not bending at the joint will remove your bicep from the movement.

Will try the tip on the squeezing shoulder blade, but.... umm, the arm starts out straight, down to the ground like... so at what point do you stop and "station" the elbow? Or do you start yours differently with a bent arm? I'm confused on the second tip.

It might have referred to keeping your elbow straight until you have "set" your shoulder. Virtually every upper body strength movement (esp the pulling ones) requires that you have the ability to keep your shoulders in a set, or "braced' position. I have seen it described as "sucking your upper arm into the shoulder socket" , if that helps. For any row or pulldown exercise you need to be able to depress/retract your shoulders without bending your elbows and without bending or rotating your torso.

For the one arm row you relax your shoulder a little and allow the weight to pull it down. Then you independently retract the shoulder (like all the movement definitions here describe) so that it is in line with your back. This should engage your lats (that's why you keep the elbow straight--to force the action to the lats). At this point you will bend your elbow and lift the weight, keeping the shoulder in the "braced" position. The elbow should stay close to the torso. If you do the lift correctly, your elbow should not go much higher than your torso--your shoulder blade should press into your back and it should almost feel like your elbow hits a barrier that doesn't allow it to go any higher.

Lats are big muscle and can usually lift heavy loads. If doing a one-arm row, women should be able to lift 1/2 your bench press weight--if you can't, that's OK, but it just points out that this is not an exercise to be done with 5lb or 10lb dumbbells--or even 12 or 15 for that matter.

Doberdawn

Lats are big muscle and can usually lift heavy loads. If doing a one-arm row, women should be able to lift 1/2 your bench press weight--if you can't, that's OK, but it just points out that this is not an exercise to be done with 5lb or 10lb dumbbells--or even 12 or 15 for that matter.

OK, so I am definitely not using enough weight. I'll try with 20 or 30 next? Hmm.

provin1327

Lats are big muscle and can usually lift heavy loads. If doing a one-arm row, women should be able to lift 1/2 your bench press weight--if you can't, that's OK, but it just points out that this is not an exercise to be done with 5lb or 10lb dumbbells--or even 12 or 15 for that matter.

OK, so I am definitely not using enough weight. I'll try with 20 or 30 next? Hmm.

No one can tell you what weight range you are in except for you Pick a weight that you can train to failure with, but one you still feel the exercise. You might be able to huck a big ol 60 lb dumbbell around for 10 reps, but if you aren't hitting the right muscle it's doing ya no good lol. Here is a GREAT video on row form. It is on a bench but the chair you are using should be pretty much the same.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlb3ekfMU6U

Doberdawn

No one can tell you what weight range you are in except for you Pick a weight that you can train to failure with, but one you still feel the exercise. You might be able to huck a big ol 60 lb dumbbell around for 10 reps, but if you aren't hitting the right muscle it's doing ya no good lol. Here is a GREAT video on row form. It is on a bench but the chair you are using should be pretty much the same.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlb3ekfMU6U

Thanx. Watched. Still a little confused. My vid said don't turn torso, keep chest flat but in this I see his underside.

vtachycardia

No one can tell you what weight range you are in except for you Pick a weight that you can train to failure with, but one you still feel the exercise. You might be able to huck a big ol 60 lb dumbbell around for 10 reps, but if you aren't hitting the right muscle it's doing ya no good lol. Here is a GREAT video on row form. It is on a bench but the chair you are using should be pretty much the same.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlb3ekfMU6U

Thanx. Watched. Still a little confused. My vid said don't turn torso, keep chest flat but in this I see his underside.

That guy isn't really turning his torso, his body is making room for the weight. You see many guys in the gym who really rotate, badly rotate their body. Like their head and body moves 45 degrees or more, which means they are using too much weight, or just do not know what they are doing, usually the latter. Your vid is warning you against this type of rotation, although it is argued that having some rotation is more efficient and does help progression by making the movement more compound than it already is by activating other stabilisers and synergists.

Just try to remember, you initiate the movement from engaging the shoulder, it is the trap, lat and rhomboid that is making that happen, their purpose is to move and support the complex structure that is the shoulder. The fact that the arm bends as part of the move does not make it an arm movement.

Azdak

No one can tell you what weight range you are in except for you Pick a weight that you can train to failure with, but one you still feel the exercise. You might be able to huck a big ol 60 lb dumbbell around for 10 reps, but if you aren't hitting the right muscle it's doing ya no good lol. Here is a GREAT video on row form. It is on a bench but the chair you are using should be pretty much the same.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlb3ekfMU6U

Thanx. Watched. Still a little confused. My vid said don't turn torso, keep chest flat but in this I see his underside.

That guy isn't really turning his torso, his body is making room for the weight. You see many guys in the gym who really rotate, badly rotate their body. Like their head and body moves 45 degrees or more, which means they are using too much weight, or just do not know what they are doing, usually the latter. Your vid is warning you against this type of rotation, although it is argued that having some rotation is more efficient and does help progression by making the movement more compound than it already is by activating other stabilisers and synergists.

Just try to remember, you initiate the movement from engaging the shoulder, it is the trap, lat and rhomboid that is making that happen, their purpose is to move and support the complex structure that is the shoulder. The fact that the arm bends as part of the move does not make it an arm movement.

I find it extremely frustrating to teach sometimes, because so many people have no clue where those muscles are or how to consciously engage them. I have had clients literally having their faces turn red trying to independently move the shoulder--and they just can't do it.

But you make a good point, which is: once you learn how to "engage" or "brace" the shoulder, you will intuitively have pretty good form on any row exercise, at any angle. So in the case of the video in question, that slight "movement" is inconsequential, since he is engaging the right muscles the right way.

I only wish, for instructional purposes, he would have broken out that "setting" of the shoulder in a more obvious way. To someone experienced, it's obvious, but to someone who isn't, the continuous movement doesn't really point that out. I always make my clients do rows and pulldowns with a two-step movement initially. First, they have to "set" the shoulder and engage the lats without bending the elbow, then complete the lift. I deal with a lot of newbies and adults over 50 and they find it helpful.

vtachycardia

Agree, two stage motion is the best way to do it, think about it.

Engage
Pull

Doberdawn

The looks I'm getting here at work are quite funny as I can't help but try doing these movements as I read each of your descriptions. Can't wait to get home and try again with dumbbell.

JNick77

That guy isn't really turning his torso, his body is making room for the weight. You see many guys in the gym who really rotate, badly rotate their body. Like their head and body moves 45 degrees or more, which means they are using too much weight, or just do not know what they are doing, usually the latter.

It really depends on what you're doing. Kroc Rows have really been catching on in many strength training circles and they don't follow a real strict form. It's not a free-for-all but some body english in used, http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/kroc_rows_101

vtachycardia

That guy isn't really turning his torso, his body is making room for the weight. You see many guys in the gym who really rotate, badly rotate their body. Like their head and body moves 45 degrees or more, which means they are using too much weight, or just do not know what they are doing, usually the latter.

It really depends on what you're doing. Kroc Rows have really been catching on in many strength training circles and they don't follow a real strict form. It's not a free-for-all but some body english in used, http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/kroc_rows_101

You have chosen to not fully quote my paragraph
I am aware of alternatives., does the OP need to know?
I assure you the people in my gym aren't doing alternative rows.

JNick77

That guy isn't really turning his torso, his body is making room for the weight. You see many guys in the gym who really rotate, badly rotate their body. Like their head and body moves 45 degrees or more, which means they are using too much weight, or just do not know what they are doing, usually the latter.

It really depends on what you're doing. Kroc Rows have really been catching on in many strength training circles and they don't follow a real strict form. It's not a free-for-all but some body english in used, http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/kroc_rows_101

You have chosen to not fully quote my paragraph
I am aware of alternatives., does the OP need to know?
I assure you the people in my gym aren't doing alternative rows.

I wasn't trying to distort what you said, rather just give some awareness to another form of DB rowing. I see bad technique on everything all the time, half reps, 8th of rep, etc.

Doberdawn

Thanks for all the tips and suggestions. Today's session went better & I think I'm getting the hang of it.

vtachycardia

Good stuff. love feedback - probably not the time to tell you about one arm row variants.

Azdak

Good stuff. love feedback - probably not the time to tell you about one arm row variants.

Once you get the "feel", you can do them all correctly.

vtachycardia

Good stuff. love feedback - probably not the time to tell you about one arm row variants.

Once you get the "feel", you can do them all correctly.

That is true, good form leads to the ability to vary the move - or as you say "feel" - I like that I am going to steal the feel

Doberdawn

Aw go ahead... <g> in case you can't tell, I'm the cautious type, I'll take it easy & make sure I have form etc right before I progress... But I love info... So tell me about "variants". Pleeeeze.