Runners...to carb or not to carb?

SamanthaH10

I carb up before a long run. Other than that, I stay in the moderate zone with carb - between 120-150g per day. Run days, I try to get at least 175.

Cheri_Moves

Its a very individual thing.

I dont do "low carb" but I try to keep my macro ratio of 40/30/30.

A 10K or shorter run, I eat like usual.

anything over that, I will add some extra carbs for breakfast. Like a big bowl of oats. But that's just me

ays_v2

I agree....I think the best way is whatever works for you.

I do see the science and logic behind "carbing up" before runs, in how your body burns carbs/sugars. It makes sense and I personally have found that if I have a carb heavy dinner the night before or even just a carb heavy day before, I have awesome long runs. On the other hand, on days I haven't paid a lot of attention and have had a protein heavy day, I tend to bonk pretty quickly. So my general rule is, if anything, I make sure I have a big bowl of oatmeal before a run and I am not hard on myself if I've had a low carb day and my run kind of stinks.

i agree!

marikevr

As my 'carboloading' usually falls over a taper, resting or easy period before a long run I keep my intake of carbs the same as I would on a normal training day. As I am using less I now have a surplus carbs that is in effect carboloading. I aim to eat low GI carbs when carboloading. The morning of the event my breakfast would contain carbs as well. During the event or long run I would switch to intermediate or high GI carbs.

heybales

You know bales... I was thinking about this for a second. As you know fat burning enzymes and all these things happen to utilize fat better. Then my magical words hit me "you can't out trick your body." Made me thinking of RMR... as you increase your fitness your RMR will go down. So you will naturally burn less calories. Which would result in smaller utilization of fatty acids.

OF course this is just theory, but I am starting to think it doesn't matter?

As you get very cardio-respiratory fit, you can indeed find your body being so much more efficient in delivering oxygen and using it to burn fat, that you burn less calories overall.

So perhaps 1.11 cal/min compared to 1.25 previously for BMR or RMR. But you burn the same amount as soon as you start moving, just able to use fat for energy source longer and at higher intensities than previously.

Same way it takes x amount of energy to move same mass same speed same incline. Really cardio fit will just burn more fat doing the effort, as opposed to unfit or only training the an-aerobic system.

TheLittleVoice91

I dont load but i find that fruit really works for me. Allows me to run for longer.

Im_NotPerfect

I don't know if it's carbing or not, but I did notice last week that I ate a TON of carbs on sunday and when I went for my run on Monday, I ran farther than ever and felt awesome! So....I think there's a possible correlation. I have a 5K race on Saturday, so my hubby is making spagetti for diner friday night! LOL

louiseshaw88

I'm running my first half marathon in 11 days and this thread has been very informative

dietanderson

Unfortunately, a regular running schedule will demand that you take in carbs. It really is the best fuel for any cardio program. Trying to cut back on this while doing this kind of training is "burning the candle at both ends".

I know this may fly in the face of the MFP philosophy but in all the years I have been running I have yet to meet a fat runner (definition: A person who has run regularly for long period of time) And we tend to shove in the carbs when given a chance!

heybales

I don't know if it's carbing or not, but I did notice last week that I ate a TON of carbs on sunday and when I went for my run on Monday, I ran farther than ever and felt awesome! So....I think there's a possible correlation. I have a 5K race on Saturday, so my hubby is making spagetti for diner friday night! LOL

If the night before actually improves performance, then you've just proven that you are usually glucose depleted for where you should be.
Which means you should increase carbs after your workouts or eat more in general for your level of activity.

Because all the night before is doing is replenishing stores that are easily enough filled. You aren't getting in extra beyond that.

CarsonRuns

Unfortunately, a regular running schedule will demand that you take in carbs. It really is the best fuel for any cardio program. Trying to cut back on this while doing this kind of training is "burning the candle at both ends".

I know this may fly in the face of the MFP philosophy but in all the years I have been running I have yet to meet a fat runner (definition: A person who has run regularly for long period of time) And we tend to shove in the carbs when given a chance!

My name is Carson and I'm a carbaholic.

Good carbs are good for you. Yes, eat them.

heybales

I'm running my first half marathon in 11 days and this thread has been very informative

Same principles apply to half, though you could go out a tad faster.

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/582526-new-to-marathons-avoid-hitting-the-wall-calculator

The carb loading method that actually has shown an increase in available carbs, not just replenishing stores that should already be topped off.
From the study, and other sites that really spell it out correctly too.

All of these techniques are variations on a three-phase theme: Prolonged or high-intensity exercise of the muscles to be loaded, typically followed first by a period of dietary carbohydrate restriction, and then ultimately by a period of high carbohydrate intake.
Such schedules are designed to induce a ‘glycogen supercompensation’ effect, whereby glycogen depletion and carbohydrate restriction stimulate increased expression of glycogen synthase in the depleted muscle fibers, enhancing their ability to synthesize glycogen during the final, high-carbohydrate-diet phase, permitting muscle fibers to store glycogen in supranormal concentrations. Exercise-induced suppression of insulin and muscle-contraction-induced activity of muscle glucose transporters also facilitate glycogen loading specifically in the target muscles, in preference to fuel storage in other physiologic energy stores such as adipose tissue and nonworking muscles.
Biopsy studies of leg muscles loaded in this way indicate that while the muscles of trained athletes typically store glycogen at a density of approximately 110 mmol glycosyl residues per kilogram (), glycogen loading protocols can increase that density to a maximum of approximately 200 mmol glycosyl residues per kilogram () [23].
While the maximum size of the glycogen reservoir available to an endurance runner depends on the size of the relevant muscles, it is possible to estimate the amount of accessible glycogen: A lean, male runner, for example, may be 45% skeletal muscle by mass, with half of that mass in his leg muscles; at 70 kg such an athlete would typically store 310 g of carbohydrate as muscle glycogen, and could store at most approximately 570 g, corresponding to approximately 1250 and 2270 kcal of leg muscle glycogen, respectively.

fishgutzy

There are many examples of people that consumed only meat and fat and had not obesity or obesity related illness until flour and sugar were introduced by western explorers.

No not everyone turns carbs into energy.
Since I cut down to under 100g a day of carbs I have a lot more energy than I had before. Last Friday, I did a 2 mile swim and then went home and moved the lawn. It was about 90 with 90+% humidity. No way I could do that before. Granted, being over 40# lighter than last summer helped too.
My longest single swim was 3 miles. Not bad for a barge shaped body.
I'll never be able to run 3 miles due to degenerative osteoarthritis. I have no desire to exercise myself back into another surgery. Getting my toe cut off and screwed back on once is enough.

If ever metabolized food the same way nobody would be fat. But we don't.
Gary Taubes is one of the writers who has done a good job compiling the available science into a readable format that doesn't require a PhD to understand. He doesn't present another diet. Just the science.

HI ,

sorry to take over but how can you train your body to burn fat instead of sugar??

dangerxbadger

Throwing in my two cents on a dead forum, but I eat less than 20 net carbs a day and have no performance issues. I run slow, steady mileage with at least one tempo run a week. The idea is to be able to run a marathon by next year. I'm running my first race next weekend. Your body will use what it has to use. If you're training low carb, your body will condition itself to run on that. That said, a replenishing of glycogen stores will be needed ( I find I run a little better the first two-three days after a "refeed" meal, but I cannot safely eat the generally recommended amount of carbs every day for medical reasons) at least once every 2 weeks. As for carb loading, everything I have read has said anything less than a half marathon and you're asking for your body to turn that crap into fat. Period. Editing to add that my "Gump" super fuel happens to be chorizo with eggs. I can literally run almost 30 seconds faster per mile and can go for an extra 2-3 miles without feeling a difference! It's kind of crazy.

heybales

Throwing in my two cents on a dead forum, but I eat less than 20 net carbs a day and have no performance issues. I run slow, steady mileage with at least one tempo run a week. The idea is to be able to run a marathon by next year. I'm running my first race next weekend. Your body will use what it has to use. If you're training low carb, your body will condition itself to run on that. That said, a replenishing of glycogen stores will be needed ( I find I run a little better the first two-three days after a "refeed" meal, but I cannot safely eat the generally recommended amount of carbs every day for medical reasons) at least once every 2 weeks. As for carb loading, everything I have read has said anything less than a half marathon and you're asking for your body to turn that crap into fat. Period. Editing to add that my "Gump" super fuel happens to be chorizo with eggs. I can literally run almost 30 seconds faster per mile and can go for an extra 2-3 miles without feeling a difference! It's kind of crazy.

Good job keeping pace correct so HR is in aerobic zone and probably training that to allow you to be faster.

Because if you increase the intensity enough, it is NOT true that the body will use whatever you have for fuel, you are using carbs already, just not as much if good aerobic training. There is a point where there is not enough oxygen available to metabolism fat but carbs must be used to supply the demanded energy needs, that is the point you would start losing it if not enough carbs stored.

And if you keep the demand up and there is no required "fast" fuel, ie carbs, protein will be broken down to convert to glucose to provide that need. If you got available protein, great. If not, muscle will be used. That's "the wall" of the poorly trained marathoner, you have enough fat still being used, but carbs in the muscles are gone, lactic acid conversion isn't fast enough, fat conversion is minor and not enough to keep up with demand.

So keep training the aerobic system to allow your pace faster and faster and avoid that whole problem. Well, not totally avoided, but at least mitigated to a large extent.

jamers3111

I'm not going to read any other responses so forgive me if I sound redundant. Have you ever seen the episode of "The Office" when Michael organizes a run to fight Rabis? If so, my thoughts of carbo-loading are like that... It's hilarious to see people do it because it's silly.
I am a true firm believer of eating before the race the way you ate while you trained... which means don't eat a pound of noodles.

How long of a race are we talking here? 5K? Please don't carbo-load EVER... you won't burn enough calories to make up for it.
10K? Eat a banana. 15K? Eat a banana and maybe a small granola bar. Half marathon/full marathon? Eat the way you train. The most important is WATER. If you hydrate yourself properly the days/weeks prior to the race then you won't die on race day.

Good luck and listen to YOUR BODY!

dsjohndrow

I don't make a big deal of it. I usually eat an hour before a run if I have time.
5K - who cares, maybe a string cheese.
10K - banana
1/2 marathon a bagel and cream cheese and maybe a banana.

The rest of the time i try to balance my carbs and protein.

I run three times a week 5 miles - 7 miles - 12+miles , plus I lift twice a week and do a 2 hour cross-train on the bike, the skates or the Rollerblades another day.

dangerxbadger

Throwing in my two cents on a dead forum, but I eat less than 20 net carbs a day and have no performance issues. I run slow, steady mileage with at least one tempo run a week. The idea is to be able to run a marathon by next year. I'm running my first race next weekend. Your body will use what it has to use. If you're training low carb, your body will condition itself to run on that. That said, a replenishing of glycogen stores will be needed ( I find I run a little better the first two-three days after a "refeed" meal, but I cannot safely eat the generally recommended amount of carbs every day for medical reasons) at least once every 2 weeks. As for carb loading, everything I have read has said anything less than a half marathon and you're asking for your body to turn that crap into fat. Period. Editing to add that my "Gump" super fuel happens to be chorizo with eggs. I can literally run almost 30 seconds faster per mile and can go for an extra 2-3 miles without feeling a difference! It's kind of crazy.

Good job keeping pace correct so HR is in aerobic zone and probably training that to allow you to be faster.

Because if you increase the intensity enough, it is NOT true that the body will use whatever you have for fuel, you are using carbs already, just not as much if good aerobic training. There is a point where there is not enough oxygen available to metabolism fat but carbs must be used to supply the demanded energy needs, that is the point you would start losing it if not enough carbs stored.

And if you keep the demand up and there is no required "fast" fuel, ie carbs, protein will be broken down to convert to glucose to provide that need. If you got available protein, great. If not, muscle will be used. That's "the wall" of the poorly trained marathoner, you have enough fat still being used, but carbs in the muscles are gone, lactic acid conversion isn't fast enough, fat conversion is minor and not enough to keep up with demand.

So keep training the aerobic system to allow your pace faster and faster and avoid that whole problem. Well, not totally avoided, but at least mitigated to a large extent.

Bales, you're the best.
<333

heybales

Bales, you're the best.
<333

Oh boy, perhaps even better. Just happened upon this nice explanation.

http://www.active.com/running/Articles/How-We-Get-the-Energy-to-Run.htm

3dogsrunning

Tagging to read when it's not 2 am.