Runners...to carb or not to carb?

CarsonRuns

Unfortunately, a regular running schedule will demand that you take in carbs. It really is the best fuel for any cardio program. Trying to cut back on this while doing this kind of training is "burning the candle at both ends".

I know this may fly in the face of the MFP philosophy but in all the years I have been running I have yet to meet a fat runner (definition: A person who has run regularly for long period of time) And we tend to shove in the carbs when given a chance!

My name is Carson and I'm a carbaholic.

Good carbs are good for you. Yes, eat them.

heybales

I'm running my first half marathon in 11 days and this thread has been very informative

Same principles apply to half, though you could go out a tad faster.

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/582526-new-to-marathons-avoid-hitting-the-wall-calculator

The carb loading method that actually has shown an increase in available carbs, not just replenishing stores that should already be topped off.
From the study, and other sites that really spell it out correctly too.

All of these techniques are variations on a three-phase theme: Prolonged or high-intensity exercise of the muscles to be loaded, typically followed first by a period of dietary carbohydrate restriction, and then ultimately by a period of high carbohydrate intake.
Such schedules are designed to induce a ‘glycogen supercompensation’ effect, whereby glycogen depletion and carbohydrate restriction stimulate increased expression of glycogen synthase in the depleted muscle fibers, enhancing their ability to synthesize glycogen during the final, high-carbohydrate-diet phase, permitting muscle fibers to store glycogen in supranormal concentrations. Exercise-induced suppression of insulin and muscle-contraction-induced activity of muscle glucose transporters also facilitate glycogen loading specifically in the target muscles, in preference to fuel storage in other physiologic energy stores such as adipose tissue and nonworking muscles.
Biopsy studies of leg muscles loaded in this way indicate that while the muscles of trained athletes typically store glycogen at a density of approximately 110 mmol glycosyl residues per kilogram (), glycogen loading protocols can increase that density to a maximum of approximately 200 mmol glycosyl residues per kilogram () [23].
While the maximum size of the glycogen reservoir available to an endurance runner depends on the size of the relevant muscles, it is possible to estimate the amount of accessible glycogen: A lean, male runner, for example, may be 45% skeletal muscle by mass, with half of that mass in his leg muscles; at 70 kg such an athlete would typically store 310 g of carbohydrate as muscle glycogen, and could store at most approximately 570 g, corresponding to approximately 1250 and 2270 kcal of leg muscle glycogen, respectively.

fishgutzy

There are many examples of people that consumed only meat and fat and had not obesity or obesity related illness until flour and sugar were introduced by western explorers.

No not everyone turns carbs into energy.
Since I cut down to under 100g a day of carbs I have a lot more energy than I had before. Last Friday, I did a 2 mile swim and then went home and moved the lawn. It was about 90 with 90+% humidity. No way I could do that before. Granted, being over 40# lighter than last summer helped too.
My longest single swim was 3 miles. Not bad for a barge shaped body.
I'll never be able to run 3 miles due to degenerative osteoarthritis. I have no desire to exercise myself back into another surgery. Getting my toe cut off and screwed back on once is enough.

If ever metabolized food the same way nobody would be fat. But we don't.
Gary Taubes is one of the writers who has done a good job compiling the available science into a readable format that doesn't require a PhD to understand. He doesn't present another diet. Just the science.

HI ,

sorry to take over but how can you train your body to burn fat instead of sugar??

dangerxbadger

Throwing in my two cents on a dead forum, but I eat less than 20 net carbs a day and have no performance issues. I run slow, steady mileage with at least one tempo run a week. The idea is to be able to run a marathon by next year. I'm running my first race next weekend. Your body will use what it has to use. If you're training low carb, your body will condition itself to run on that. That said, a replenishing of glycogen stores will be needed ( I find I run a little better the first two-three days after a "refeed" meal, but I cannot safely eat the generally recommended amount of carbs every day for medical reasons) at least once every 2 weeks. As for carb loading, everything I have read has said anything less than a half marathon and you're asking for your body to turn that crap into fat. Period. Editing to add that my "Gump" super fuel happens to be chorizo with eggs. I can literally run almost 30 seconds faster per mile and can go for an extra 2-3 miles without feeling a difference! It's kind of crazy.

heybales

Throwing in my two cents on a dead forum, but I eat less than 20 net carbs a day and have no performance issues. I run slow, steady mileage with at least one tempo run a week. The idea is to be able to run a marathon by next year. I'm running my first race next weekend. Your body will use what it has to use. If you're training low carb, your body will condition itself to run on that. That said, a replenishing of glycogen stores will be needed ( I find I run a little better the first two-three days after a "refeed" meal, but I cannot safely eat the generally recommended amount of carbs every day for medical reasons) at least once every 2 weeks. As for carb loading, everything I have read has said anything less than a half marathon and you're asking for your body to turn that crap into fat. Period. Editing to add that my "Gump" super fuel happens to be chorizo with eggs. I can literally run almost 30 seconds faster per mile and can go for an extra 2-3 miles without feeling a difference! It's kind of crazy.

Good job keeping pace correct so HR is in aerobic zone and probably training that to allow you to be faster.

Because if you increase the intensity enough, it is NOT true that the body will use whatever you have for fuel, you are using carbs already, just not as much if good aerobic training. There is a point where there is not enough oxygen available to metabolism fat but carbs must be used to supply the demanded energy needs, that is the point you would start losing it if not enough carbs stored.

And if you keep the demand up and there is no required "fast" fuel, ie carbs, protein will be broken down to convert to glucose to provide that need. If you got available protein, great. If not, muscle will be used. That's "the wall" of the poorly trained marathoner, you have enough fat still being used, but carbs in the muscles are gone, lactic acid conversion isn't fast enough, fat conversion is minor and not enough to keep up with demand.

So keep training the aerobic system to allow your pace faster and faster and avoid that whole problem. Well, not totally avoided, but at least mitigated to a large extent.

jamers3111

I'm not going to read any other responses so forgive me if I sound redundant. Have you ever seen the episode of "The Office" when Michael organizes a run to fight Rabis? If so, my thoughts of carbo-loading are like that... It's hilarious to see people do it because it's silly.
I am a true firm believer of eating before the race the way you ate while you trained... which means don't eat a pound of noodles.

How long of a race are we talking here? 5K? Please don't carbo-load EVER... you won't burn enough calories to make up for it.
10K? Eat a banana. 15K? Eat a banana and maybe a small granola bar. Half marathon/full marathon? Eat the way you train. The most important is WATER. If you hydrate yourself properly the days/weeks prior to the race then you won't die on race day.

Good luck and listen to YOUR BODY!

dsjohndrow

I don't make a big deal of it. I usually eat an hour before a run if I have time.
5K - who cares, maybe a string cheese.
10K - banana
1/2 marathon a bagel and cream cheese and maybe a banana.

The rest of the time i try to balance my carbs and protein.

I run three times a week 5 miles - 7 miles - 12+miles , plus I lift twice a week and do a 2 hour cross-train on the bike, the skates or the Rollerblades another day.

dangerxbadger

Throwing in my two cents on a dead forum, but I eat less than 20 net carbs a day and have no performance issues. I run slow, steady mileage with at least one tempo run a week. The idea is to be able to run a marathon by next year. I'm running my first race next weekend. Your body will use what it has to use. If you're training low carb, your body will condition itself to run on that. That said, a replenishing of glycogen stores will be needed ( I find I run a little better the first two-three days after a "refeed" meal, but I cannot safely eat the generally recommended amount of carbs every day for medical reasons) at least once every 2 weeks. As for carb loading, everything I have read has said anything less than a half marathon and you're asking for your body to turn that crap into fat. Period. Editing to add that my "Gump" super fuel happens to be chorizo with eggs. I can literally run almost 30 seconds faster per mile and can go for an extra 2-3 miles without feeling a difference! It's kind of crazy.

Good job keeping pace correct so HR is in aerobic zone and probably training that to allow you to be faster.

Because if you increase the intensity enough, it is NOT true that the body will use whatever you have for fuel, you are using carbs already, just not as much if good aerobic training. There is a point where there is not enough oxygen available to metabolism fat but carbs must be used to supply the demanded energy needs, that is the point you would start losing it if not enough carbs stored.

And if you keep the demand up and there is no required "fast" fuel, ie carbs, protein will be broken down to convert to glucose to provide that need. If you got available protein, great. If not, muscle will be used. That's "the wall" of the poorly trained marathoner, you have enough fat still being used, but carbs in the muscles are gone, lactic acid conversion isn't fast enough, fat conversion is minor and not enough to keep up with demand.

So keep training the aerobic system to allow your pace faster and faster and avoid that whole problem. Well, not totally avoided, but at least mitigated to a large extent.

Bales, you're the best.
<333

heybales

Bales, you're the best.
<333

Oh boy, perhaps even better. Just happened upon this nice explanation.

http://www.active.com/running/Articles/How-We-Get-the-Energy-to-Run.htm

3dogsrunning

Tagging to read when it's not 2 am.

ThickMcRunFast

Didn't read most of this thread, so excuse any repeat info.

Most of the high level runners I know will carb load 2-3 days before a race, and back off the night before. They eat anything and everything, no restrictions (unless they have an allergy).

Everything else I will say is anecdotal, and I believe that the best diet is one where you eat everything in moderation, so take this with a grain of salt.

I went low-carb once just to see, and while I could do my runs, I lost pretty much all my speed and kick. I normally run about an 8:10 marathon training pace, and a 7:00 tempo pace. I couldn't get near that without carbs. 9 minute miles felt like I was going to die. In my experience, for up to a half marathon, if you don't care about time, low carb is alright. Not the best, but alright. for longer distances, carb up.