How to get enough carbs when you don't eat grains

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  • shar140
    shar140 Posts: 1,158 Member
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    A While back my doctor put me on The Paleo diet to help with an the chronic pain of fibromyalgia and myofascial pain syndrome (sp?)
    Right now I'm training for my first 10K, my running group coach has been talking about carb loading before big runs and before the race but I'm at a lose as to how to do it. If you dont eat grain how do you carbo load? Any suggestions?

    As others mentioned, white rice, sweet or white potatoes, and bananas are my go-to's.

    I'd also suggest the book "Paleo Diet for Athletes" by Dr. Loren Cordain. He explains what you're asking. Side note to others, this book is for endurance (aerobic) athletes, not mixed sports (aerobic & anaerobic, so most team sports). His rule of thumb is you don't really need to carb load if the event is less than an hour. He also gives some guidelines for how much carb.

    Also, I don't know what carb level you have been eating at, but if it's somewhat moderate to low, I would try to carb load over a few days (less carbs but more often), not all at once the night before so you don't risk stomach upset from a huge load of carbs at once.
  • shar140
    shar140 Posts: 1,158 Member
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    You don't need to carb load to run distances. If you're already eating Paleo you will be getting enough fat in your diet to burn as fuel.

    Carb loading are for runners who eat grains and people who buy into 'carb = energy'. As a paleo person, you shouldn't buy into that. You should already have boundless energy from eating the right foods, the foods we evolved to eat.

    So don't carb load. Make sure you get a nice fatty meal the night before, a protein/mid-fat breakfast, and do your run. You should be fine. Especially if you've been training for it for a while - if so, you won't have had any problems during your 7km and 8km warm-up runs, so you won't by pushing it to the 10km mark.

    Sounds like your coach is advising what he does without taking into account what you do. Someone mentioned Mark's Daily Apple, which is great. I once found an article on there where Mark Sisson admitted drinking a spoonful of olive oil before a 10km race - fat-fuel straight into the system. Personally, that would probably make me throw up, but an avocado and some bacon would probably do the same job.

    PrimalGirl

    Assuming she's a fat burner and not a sugar (carb) burner, this should work fine. Though I might go coconut oil instead of olive, for the MCT's. But I agree, that would probably make me throw up too so I'd go with bacon and eggs like every day. :)

    Dr. Peter Attia did an interesting self-experiment you can read about here:
    http://eatingacademy.com/nutrition/the-interplay-of-exercise-and-ketosis-part-i
  • vytamindi
    vytamindi Posts: 845 Member
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    OP - PO-TA-TO! Boil 'em, mash 'em, stick 'em in a stew.

    FTFY :glasses:

    ETA: If you're a fat burner and you plan on adding a ton of carbs, do it slowly to avoid negative tummy feels!
  • myofibril
    myofibril Posts: 4,500 Member
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    The point of carb loading is to to ensure your glycogen stores are full for race day. Your body will look to glycogen (carb) stores first when you are running and when depleted will draw from other fuel sources (and you will probably hit "the wall" as well...)

    Now, your body's capacity to store glycogen is limited (so there's no need to go nuts with the carbs - pardon the pun) and is generally sufficient for about 90 minutes running or so. If your run will exceed that time you will need to think about supplementing during it. If it's less, then three or four days prior to your race just eat more carbs per day to the extent that you feel comfortable with the foodstuff you generally like and know you can handle and a carb rich meal the evening before. Trying new stuff maybe counter productive if it doesn't agree with you.

    In reality, if it's a non competitive fun run gig then all of the above maybe completely unnecessary. Just eat sensibly and enjoy it...
  • StarryEyed500
    StarryEyed500 Posts: 225 Member
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    Assuming she's a fat burner and not a sugar (carb) burner, this should work fine.
    How do you know which you are?
  • PercivalHackworth
    PercivalHackworth Posts: 1,437 Member
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    everybody has the same pathways; the metabolic pathway depends on the intensity

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_systems
  • PercivalHackworth
    PercivalHackworth Posts: 1,437 Member
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    The point of carb loading is to to ensure your glycogen stores are full for race day. Your body will look to glycogen (carb) stores first when you are running and when depleted will draw from other fuel sources (and you will probably hit "the wall" as well...)

    Now, your body's capacity to store glycogen is limited (so there's no need to go nuts with the carbs - pardon the pun) and is generally sufficient for about 90 minutes running or so. If your run will exceed that time you will need to think about supplementing during it. If it's less, then three or four days prior to your race just eat more carbs per day to the extent that you feel comfortable with the foodstuff you generally like and know you can handle and a carb rich meal the evening before. Trying new stuff maybe counter productive if it doesn't agree with you.

    In reality, if it's a non competitive fun run gig then all of the above maybe completely unnecessary. Just eat sensibly and enjoy it...

    As usual, great answers. An interesting study compared two athletes with roughly the same level. Their intensity and duration on effort has been measured between they both "hit the wall". The first one had an omega3/6 supplementation while the second didn't. The first have been able to run an extra time before "hitting the wall". Ingesting lipids next to a proper CHO storing ensures better performances for such :)
  • myofibril
    myofibril Posts: 4,500 Member
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    As usual, great answers. An interesting study compared two athletes with roughly the same level. Their intensity and duration on effort has been measured between they both "hit the wall". The first one had an omega3/6 supplementation while the second didn't. The first have been able to run an extra time before "hitting the wall". Ingesting lipids next to a proper CHO storing ensures better performances for such :)

    That's pretty cool. So supplementing with certain fats as well may add an advantage in performance? Presumably their carb levels were held constant.

    I will give that go. Thanks for the heads up my friend.
  • PaleoPath4Lyfe
    PaleoPath4Lyfe Posts: 3,161 Member
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    Potatoes - Sweet or white. (I think white is considered paleo by some)
    Lara Bars - Only the coconut cream one is primal
    Fruit - Lots of it

    Most of the Kind bars are Primal / Paleo (honey, dried fruit and nuts)
  • PhilyPhresh
    PhilyPhresh Posts: 600 Member
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    :huh: Does anyone on here even know what IS Paleo and what IS NOT Paleo...?
  • christimw
    christimw Posts: 183 Member
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    :huh: Does anyone on here even know what IS Paleo and what IS NOT Paleo...?

    my thoughts exactly!

    i probably have a red mark on my head from all the facepalms.
  • PaleoPath4Lyfe
    PaleoPath4Lyfe Posts: 3,161 Member
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    :huh: Does anyone on here even know what IS Paleo and what IS NOT Paleo...?

    Yes, what are you referencing specifically?

    Fruit
    Vegetables
    Natural Fats (coconut oil, animal fats, ghee, olive oil, etc)
    Proteins (eggs, meat)
    Nuts / seeds that are low in Omega 6 and higher in Omega 3
    Raw Honey used sparingly

    Raw Dairy if the body is tolerant

    Safe starches: Potatoes (both sweet and white), bananas, white rice

    Most of the safe starches should be eaten when the person is at goal and working on specific athletic goals. Should be avoided or eaten very sparingly if there are metabolic issues.
  • PaleoPath4Lyfe
    PaleoPath4Lyfe Posts: 3,161 Member
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    Legumes, fruits (careful... its all sugar. Moderation and timing.) , vegetables are NOT valid carb source, beans, starches.

    Paleo is omits the use of grains and wheat as they are annual monocrops introduced as a dietary staple via agriculture and irrigation. Paleo relies on carb sources from perennial plants not containing gluten. These are your fruits for sugars and roots/legumes/beans for starch.

    Ok, Legumes are NOT Paleo or Primal.

    Vegetables ARE valid carb sources, this is where we should be getting the bulk of our carbs eating this way.

    Starches should NOT come from legumes. Starches should come from bananas, sweet potatoes and possibly white rice.
  • PaleoPath4Lyfe
    PaleoPath4Lyfe Posts: 3,161 Member
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    :huh: Does anyone on here even know what IS Paleo and what IS NOT Paleo...?

    my thoughts exactly!

    i probably have a red mark on my head from all the facepalms.

    I didn't read through all of the comments, but was face palming myself after I read your comment and went back to read the comments, especially on the first page.
  • beckajw
    beckajw Posts: 1,738 Member
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    Legumes, fruits (careful... its all sugar. Moderation and timing.) , vegetables are NOT valid carb source, beans, starches.

    Paleo is omits the use of grains and wheat as they are annual monocrops introduced as a dietary staple via agriculture and irrigation. Paleo relies on carb sources from perennial plants not containing gluten. These are your fruits for sugars and roots/legumes/beans for starch.

    Ok, Legumes are NOT Paleo or Primal.

    Vegetables ARE valid carb sources, this is where we should be getting the bulk of our carbs eating this way.

    Starches should NOT come from legumes. Starches should come from bananas, sweet potatoes and possibly white rice.

    Thank you! All this talk of legumes was getting me really confused.
  • PhilyPhresh
    PhilyPhresh Posts: 600 Member
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    :huh: Does anyone on here even know what IS Paleo and what IS NOT Paleo...?

    my thoughts exactly!

    i probably have a red mark on my head from all the facepalms.

    I didn't read through all of the comments, but was face palming myself after I read your comment and went back to read the comments, especially on the first page.

    exactly...
  • Lina4Lina
    Lina4Lina Posts: 712 Member
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    Someone asked about getting carbs from things that aren't grains... Legumes may not be paleo but they aren't grains.
  • Ruthe8
    Ruthe8 Posts: 423 Member
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    Someone asked about getting carbs from things that aren't grains... Legumes may not be paleo but they aren't grains.
    And it was prefaced by saying that OP is eating paleo. Does everything have to be spelled out that clearly?
  • christimw
    christimw Posts: 183 Member
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    Someone asked about getting carbs from things that aren't grains... Legumes may not be paleo but they aren't grains.

    i wouldn't suggest eating meat to a vegetarian looking for ways to get protien. so why would i suggest legumes to someone who's diet doesn't include them?
  • Lina4Lina
    Lina4Lina Posts: 712 Member
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    Someone asked about getting carbs from things that aren't grains... Legumes may not be paleo but they aren't grains.

    i wouldn't suggest eating meat to a vegetarian looking for ways to get protien. so why would i suggest legumes to someone who's diet doesn't include them?

    Honestly, I'm not a paleo person and it seems paleo may mean different things to different people (as evidenced through this thread, OP asked specifically for no grains but rice was recommended?). Legumes are a non-grain carb is all I'm saying.

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