Eating 1+g/lb Body Mass is a Myth

chivalryder

Here's a very interesting article, with oodles of scientific studies to back it up (13 different resources) that states that eating 1g/lb of body mass is a myth. There is no added benefit of eating more, even if you are doing serious strength training.

To summarize, it says:

• There is normally no advantage to consuming more than 0.82g/lb (1.8g/kg) of protein per day to preserve or build muscle. This already includes a very safe mark-up. There hasn’t been any recorded advantage of consuming more than 0.64g/lb. The only exceptions to this rule could be individuals with extraordinarily high anabolic hormone levels.
• Optimal protein intake decreases with training age, because your body becomes more efficient at preventing protein breakdown resulting from training and less protein is needed for the increasingly smaller amount of muscle that is built after each training session. The magnitude of this effect is unclear.

If you wish to read the entire thing,

http://mennohenselmans.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/

chivalryder

bump

Yanicka1

That is why using 0.75-1g of LEAN body mass is enough protein .

Unless I am misunderstanding the study

wolfchild59

That is why using 0.75-1g of LEAN body mass is enough protein .

Unless I am misunderstanding the study

This is how I've always heard it, that it's supposed to be linked to your lean body mass weight only. Never 1g for each pound of total body weight.

So yeah, I'll go ahead and agree with the article without reading it. heheh

chivalryder

I actually haven't found any so evidence that states whether it is lean body mass or total body mass. This article seems rather legit (7 of the 13 sources are from the last 10 years, most of these were very recent). If I find something that adds more info (lean mass vs body mass), I'll post it as well.

chivalryder

I was expecting a much larger response than this...

Awkward30

Most of us say 1g/ lb of lean mass. That actually turns out lower than the 0.82g/lb body weight for many. Also, without any detrimental effects of a higher intake, I wouldn't change what was working for me even if I didn't need so much protein. I find it satiating.

kiachu

I always heard it was 1 gram per lean mass.

But I still eat a butt load of it cause it's delicious.

margojr4

I was expecting a much larger response than this...

kiachu

LOL!

eatcleanNtraindirty

Here's a very interesting article, with oodles of scientific studies to back it up (13 different resources) that states that eating 1g/lb of body mass is a myth. There is no added benefit of eating more, even if you are doing serious strength training.

To summarize, it says:

• There is normally no advantage to consuming more than 0.82g/lb (1.8g/kg) of protein per day to preserve or build muscle. This already includes a very safe mark-up. There hasn’t been any recorded advantage of consuming more than 0.64g/lb. The only exceptions to this rule could be individuals with extraordinarily high anabolic hormone levels.
• Optimal protein intake decreases with training age, because your body becomes more efficient at preventing protein breakdown resulting from training and less protein is needed for the increasingly smaller amount of muscle that is built after each training session. The magnitude of this effect is unclear.

If you wish to read the entire thing,

http://mennohenselmans.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/

Yeah there may be no evidence to back it up.... but think about it. If you are a 180lb guy who needs 2100kcal/day to maintain your weight. With a 50/30/20 ratio of carbs/protein/fat. Then that's 157.5g protein a day to maintain your weight.

If you want to put on size, say 1lb per week, that's another 500 kcal equaling 2600 calories. Getting up to 195g of protein per day.

If you workout for an hour and burn, say 500 calories. That's 3100 calories you need a day to gain 1lb per week and workout on those days. So that's 232.5g protein on your workout days.

So while there's no research to back it, people need that much more protein to maintain lean muscle and to grow. Just looking at it from a macronutrient standpoint.

Montemuscle1970

Yeah there may be no evidence to back it up.... but think about it. If you are a 180lb guy who needs 2100kcal/day to maintain your weight. With a 50/30/20 ratio of carbs/protein/fat. Then that's 157.5g protein a day to maintain your weight.

If you want to put on size, say 1lb per week, that's another 500 kcal equaling 2600 calories. Getting up to 195g of protein per day.

If you workout for an hour and burn, say 500 calories. That's 3100 calories you need a day to gain 1lb per week and workout on those days. So that's 232.5g protein on your workout days.

So while there's no research to back it, people need that much more protein to maintain lean muscle and to grow. Just looking at it from a macronutrient standpoint.

A persons energy requirement doesn't have to come from protein though. You eat .82g/lb to give your body the protein supply it needs to synthesize muscle for growth or repair, then you get the energy supply from carbs, fats or more protein. This energy doesn't have to be from more protein.

chivalryder

Yeah there may be no evidence to back it up.... but think about it. If you are a 180lb guy who needs 2100kcal/day to maintain your weight. With a 50/30/20 ratio of carbs/protein/fat. Then that's 157.5g protein a day to maintain your weight.

If you want to put on size, say 1lb per week, that's another 500 kcal equaling 2600 calories. Getting up to 195g of protein per day.

If you workout for an hour and burn, say 500 calories. That's 3100 calories you need a day to gain 1lb per week and workout on those days. So that's 232.5g protein on your workout days.

So while there's no research to back it, people need that much more protein to maintain lean muscle and to grow. Just looking at it from a macronutrient standpoint.

A persons energy requirement doesn't have to come from protein though. You eat .82g/lb to give your body the protein supply it needs to synthesize muscle for growth or repair, then you get the energy supply from carbs, fats or more protein. This energy doesn't have to be from more protein.

That was basically the entire article's point in a nutshell. Protein is an expensive source for energy. If you're not getting any other benefit from it, why eat more?

BaconMD

That was basically the entire article's point in a nutshell. Protein is an expensive source for energy. If you're not getting any other benefit from it, why eat more?

Because carbs are the devil and fat makes you fat!!!!!!!!

Montemuscle1970

There's no problem with eating more protein for the extra energy, so long as you're body gets everything else it needs. Just make sure your protein comes from quality sources. Too much meat in a diet has been known to cause toxicity in your digestive tract though.

small_ninja

Yeah, most of the resources I've read advocate for 1g protein per lb of lean body mass (not total body mass) for optimum muscle retention when losing weight. This puts me at about 85-95g of protein per day. Your calculations of 1.8xkg of total body mass puts me at 99g - sounds about right. I'll continue to aim for 80-100g per day.

Montemuscle1970

.82g/lb is the max. This is usually reserved for olympic athletes who are training hard. Certain university studies have shown that olympic athletes gained no benefit consuming over .82-.84g/lb of body weight. So using .82g/lb is still higher than the majority of people need, regardless of physical activity.

Unless you're training like an olympian, save yourself the money and get the calories you need from somewhere cheaper.

Jynus

.82g/lb is the max. This is usually reserved for olympic athletes who are training hard. Certain university studies have shown that olympic athletes gained no benefit consuming over .82-.84g/lb of body weight. So using .82g/lb is still higher than the majority of people need, regardless of physical activity.

Unless you're training like an olympian, save yourself the money and get the calories you need from somewhere cheaper.

the numbers were pulled from people of all types, not just olympians.

to the OP, there is a benefit from eating 1g-lbs. less fat and carbs consumed.

SideSteel

Just for what it's worth:

I ran this exact info by Alan Aragon and I recall him saying that there are a few studies that menno did not include, and those studies would suggest that intakes above .82g/lb would be beneficial. I'll see if I still have the message from Alan. I looked up one of the 3 to verify back when I first saw this info.

I would refer people to the YouTube video titled The Protein Roundtable with Aragon, Helms, and McCarthy for an in depth and referenced discussion on the recommended intakes and what criteria would raise or lower these.

As it stands, I'm not convinced that .82g/lb is optimal given the exclusion of data.

That being said, I AM going off of memory. If I'm wrong I'll take it back.

lyttlewon

Just for what it's worth:

I ran this exact info by Alan Aragon and I recall him saying that there are a few studies that menno did not include, and those studies would suggest that intakes above .82g/lb would be beneficial. I'll see if I still have the message from Alan. I looked up one of the 3 to verify back when I first saw this info.

I would refer people to the YouTube video titled The Protein Roundtable with Aragon, Helms, and McCarthy for an in depth and referenced discussion on the recommended intakes and what criteria would raise or lower these.

As it stands, I'm not convinced that .82g/lb is optimal given the exclusion of data.

That being said, I AM going off of memory. If I'm wrong I'll take it back.

The excluded studies would be interesting to see. Maybe they were excluded because they did not have good sample size or didn't control well for bias and whatnot.

Going4Lean

bump for later

jjefferies7

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFObr7rc1kA

/end thread

small_ninja

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFObr7rc1kA

/end thread

Don't really have the time to commit to watching 1.5 hours on protein - any way you can just provide a quick summary? Is the OP right or not?

blonde71

I always heard it was 1 gram per lean mass.

But I still eat a butt load of it cause it's delicious.

^^^^This. When I ate less protein, I didn't see a difference in my body but when I upped it to 1g per lbm...that's when real progress was made.

Montemuscle1970

.82g/lb is the max. This is usually reserved for olympic athletes who are training hard. Certain university studies have shown that olympic athletes gained no benefit consuming over .82-.84g/lb of body weight. So using .82g/lb is still higher than the majority of people need, regardless of physical activity.

Unless you're training like an olympian, save yourself the money and get the calories you need from somewhere cheaper.

the numbers were pulled from people of all types, not just olympians.

to the OP, there is a benefit from eating 1g-lbs. less fat and carbs consumed.

The study about olympic athletes was a separate study, not the one supplied by the OP. The one I was referring to was only conducted with olympic athletes. It was only in reference to added muscle mass. After .84g/lb, no one saw increased muscle gain. It didn't mention anything about other effects of increased protein intake.

Its worth mentioning that they were all natural athletes too. There were no steroids or growth hormones involved with the subjects. Using steroidal supplements would allow the body to utilize more protein for sure.

Basically, the more you stress your body, the more protein you will use in muscle synthesis. That's not arguable. But there is still a limit to what your body can achieve. The results are different from person to person, but 1g/lb is recommended by BODYBUILDERS. I stress that because the vast majority of people, especially on MFP, are not BODYBUILDERS. And you're not a bodybuilder until you've been lifting that intensely for about 2 years.

AntWrig

Lean body mass if you're overweight. 1g per lb if you average or lean. End of thread.

jjefferies7

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFObr7rc1kA

/end thread

/open thread

What? 3 guys talking about protein, what makes them so right? (i seen this before)

i already ended the thread.

Kairunz

My understanding is that the average person should eat between 45 - 65 % as healthy low gi non processed carbs. If you reduce your carb intake too much your body will break down lean muscle mass for energy purposes. I have seen body builders on the 80/10/10 diet. Everyone is different however so you just can't make blanket statements.

Matt_Wild

To add balance to your post...

http://fitnessinventor.com/articles/2503-response-to-crazy-high-protein-diet-claims-dr-dan-reardon

As he says, do you really think a 8 stone 5' jockey has the same requirements as a 6' 4" 240-250lb football/rugby player?

As for the OP, utterly disagree. Increased my protein up to 550g a day last bulk from around 350g and got to my heaviest leanest stage weight of 235lb. You can't make blanket statements...

Hendrix7

• Optimal protein intake decreases with training age, because your body becomes more efficient at preventing protein breakdown resulting from training and less protein is needed for the increasingly smaller amount of muscle that is built after each training session. The magnitude of this effect is unclear.

Isn't this actually the wrong way round?

I was under the impression amino acid sensitivity worsened with age so you would need slightly more protein to have the same effect.

What? 3 guys talking about protein, what makes them so right? (i seen this before)

Well all of their statements are backed up by research, will usually helps.

If you are even mildly interest in nutrition and fitness then it would be in your benefit to be familiar with the work of alan aragon and eric helms.

Matt_Wild

One thing I always see on these 'studies' and 'pieces' refuting protein requirements etc - I've never seen a jacked guy claiming this kinda hyperbole. Ever. Only ever people doing stuff like leangains etc, all at 12-13 stone which is frankly achievable without any fasting, fancy dieting methods.