Hard work, blood, sweat & tears .... for what!??
Wonderob
Posts: 1,372 Member
I've been training for a while now so I'm a decent weight with a decent amount of muscle and have a good fitness level, so I'm fairly happy
My plan was to go to maintenance calories whilst keeping my exercise routine which is:
3 days per week of an hour hard cycling. Tough, leg burning difficult!
3 days per week of hard heavy weight training. Agony in the gym, muscles burning, body exhausted, 100% hard, tough, gritted teeth, vein popping lifting. No let-up!
Nutrition is hard work too. Sacrifices galore, loads of chicken, get that protein inside me! Get busy with those protein shakes after the workouts!
So after a year of this gruelling work I'm going to be......
.......exactly the same????!!!
That doesn't seem fair! Is that right? Calorie neutral so no fat gain, but no muscle gain either - all that hard work for no additional tangible benefits?
Hard to get motivated for that is it not!
My plan was to go to maintenance calories whilst keeping my exercise routine which is:
3 days per week of an hour hard cycling. Tough, leg burning difficult!
3 days per week of hard heavy weight training. Agony in the gym, muscles burning, body exhausted, 100% hard, tough, gritted teeth, vein popping lifting. No let-up!
Nutrition is hard work too. Sacrifices galore, loads of chicken, get that protein inside me! Get busy with those protein shakes after the workouts!
So after a year of this gruelling work I'm going to be......
.......exactly the same????!!!
That doesn't seem fair! Is that right? Calorie neutral so no fat gain, but no muscle gain either - all that hard work for no additional tangible benefits?
Hard to get motivated for that is it not!
0
Replies
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hmmm.. you have your health, you are fit, your body didnt gain in a year....you have beautiful children...a beautiful wife n are happy.....hmmm yet your fed up... look at the good my dear...i am sure it outweighs everything.
life does sucks and I know...getting to a place where a person is maintaining healthy and happy can be trying... am there and know all too well.
Take a look at what you have... be thankful...evaluate your goals...redefine and if you want them...sorry to tell you...it will be hard work...
I guess looking from where i am at...your sweat and hard work... even though you remained the same, I feel is a BIG achievement and id be smiling and so happy to have my spouse and family to enjoy it with....but I guess I am looking at my own wl journey.0 -
what is the same?
Your weight?
Your fitness?
Your physique?
What?0 -
hmmm.. you have your health, you are fit, your body didnt gain in a year....you have beautiful children...a beautiful wife n are happy.....hmmm yet your fed up... look at the good my dear...i am sure it outweighs everything.
life does sucks and I know...getting to a place where a person is maintaining healthy and happy can be trying... am there and know all too well.
Take a look at what you have... be thankful...evaluate your goals...redefine and if you want them...sorry to tell you...it will be hard work...
I guess looking from where i am at...your sweat and hard work... even though you remained the same, I feel is a BIG achievement and id be smiling and so happy to have my spouse and family to enjoy it with....but I guess I am looking at my own wl journey.
No not fed up, I'm happy
My point was really that I don't quite understand how this works. If I eat quite well and go through the motions at the gym I would expect to be ABOUT the same after a year. SO what are the tangible benefits of giving it my all?0 -
what is the same?
Your weight?
Your fitness?
Your physique?
What?
Well that's exactly what I need answers to. Calorie neutral by definition will mean my weight will be the same
My physique? Well, the golden rule (as I understand) is that you don't build muscle unless you have a calorie surplus, so I will NOT be any more muscley, and I won't have any more fat - so physique the same
Fitness? Well that's tricky, will it get better? Possibly I will have gains there0 -
Some far off day, when you hold your grandchildren in your arms, watch them graduate, see them get married, maybe even hold your great-grandchild in your arms, you'll know exactly what it was all for.0
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Some far off day, when you hold your grandchildren in your arms, watch them graduate, see them get married, maybe even hold your great-grandchild in your arms, you'll know exactly what it was all for.
I haen't explained myself very well then
If I go to the gym 5 or 6 times a week and work out. If I eat healthily and watch my weight, then after a year I will be similar to how I am now - and in years to come I will get all those benefits you listed
However.... I want to know what ADDITIONAL benefit I will get from...
Punishing, hard, teeth gritting, lifting where I give 100% every time and can barely walk out the gym
Coupled with
Meticolous nutrition where I try to eat the very optimum, to be the best that I can be
What will my benefits be?0 -
Some far off day, when you hold your grandchildren in your arms, watch them graduate, see them get married, maybe even hold your great-grandchild in your arms, you'll know exactly what it was all for.
I haen't explained myself very well then
If I go to the gym 5 or 6 times a week and work out. If I eat healthily and watch my weight, then after a year I will be similar to how I am now - and in years to come I will get all those benefits you listed
However.... I want to know what ADDITIONAL benefit I will get from...
Punishing, hard, teeth gritting, lifting where I give 100% every time and can barely walk out the gym
Coupled with
Meticolous nutrition where I try to eat the very optimum, to be the best that I can be
What will my benefits be?
Just as that poster implied, the benefits are a long and healthy life. Congrats to you on getting to a point where you can go on maintenance!0 -
Some far off day, when you hold your grandchildren in your arms, watch them graduate, see them get married, maybe even hold your great-grandchild in your arms, you'll know exactly what it was all for.
I haen't explained myself very well then
If I go to the gym 5 or 6 times a week and work out. If I eat healthily and watch my weight, then after a year I will be similar to how I am now - and in years to come I will get all those benefits you listed
However.... I want to know what ADDITIONAL benefit I will get from...
Punishing, hard, teeth gritting, lifting where I give 100% every time and can barely walk out the gym
Coupled with
Meticolous nutrition where I try to eat the very optimum, to be the best that I can be
What will my benefits be?
Just as that poster implied, the benefits are a long and healthy life. Congrats to you on getting to a point where you can go on maintenance!
Thanks you. However I need to re-word it as I'm not explaining myself very well
My current level is fit, decent weight, and a decent amount of muscle
If I ABSOLUTELY give my all down the gym, lifting as heavy as possible and looking like I'm training for the Olympics. Putting in the REALLY hard graft, AND eating as best as I possibly can.
If I maintain a neutral calorie intake will I look exactly the same in a years time or will I see improvements? If so what will they be as I can't imagine puting on muscle at neutral calories, despite lifting heavy0 -
If I maintain a neutral calorie intake will I look exactly the same in a years time or will I see improvements? If so what will they be as I can't imagine puting on muscle at neutral calories, despite lifting heavy
It depends on where you are now, really. "You can't put on muscle at a deficit" is for people who are already at like 15% bodyfat. (<-- made up number for emphasis, not to be taken literally.) If you are there, then you'll be the same - congratulations, this is what it takes to stay in that place. If you're not, you will probably see some changes but not the super-drastic ones you'd see on a hardcore bodybuilding program. Either way, you have to compare it not against "why am I not continually improving?" to "this is so much better than it would be if I weren't doing this," which is not nearly as psychologically satisfying, but it's still the truth.0 -
If I maintain a neutral calorie intake will I look exactly the same in a years time or will I see improvements? If so what will they be as I can't imagine puting on muscle at neutral calories, despite lifting heavy
It depends on where you are now, really. "You can't put on muscle at a deficit" is for people who are already at like 15% bodyfat. (<-- made up number for emphasis, not to be taken literally.) If you are there, then you'll be the same - congratulations, this is what it takes to stay in that place. If you're not, you will probably see some changes but not the super-drastic ones you'd see on a hardcore bodybuilding program. Either way, you have to compare it not against "why am I not continually improving?" to "this is so much better than it would be if I weren't doing this," which is not nearly as psychologically satisfying, but it's still the truth.
Good information thanks.
I'm around that ballpark 15% figure so I guess I'm going to have to put in the hard work to maintain it. I would prefer better gains in all honesty so I may think about the bulk/cut cycle but I've never had the discipline to do that before!0 -
It depends on where you are now, really. "You can't put on muscle at a deficit" is for people who are already at like 15% bodyfat. (<-- made up number for emphasis, not to be taken literally.) .
Just out of interest, what difference does that make? I've heard that you can build muscle on a calorie deficit if you're an absolute beginner or if you're very obese; but 10%, 15%, 25%, does that matter???0 -
So what is the point of running to stand still?
Worst Case
You stay the same and dont go backwards and you get the pleasure of training.
Best Case
You will get fitter and stronger
Alternate Case - rather that working out for the sake of it, take up a sport - you might get extra benefits0 -
Because you still view it all as work.
Find foods you like that fit into your macros, and exercise you like doing for the sake of doing. It doesn't have to be a miserable experience.0 -
Some people enjoy the routine and structure... and challenge. It can be argued it's more of a mental than a physical challenge at times. And some people like that aspect of it. Also, meticulous nutrition? That's just not necessary, unless you are training for bodybuilding or competition.0
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Because you still view it all as work.
^^^This... Your view makes it seem alot like work..
Additional benefits: You maybe less stressed, you get to zone out and do your own thing while at the gym or exercising.. Look around at the different people at the gym and see what they are doing, maybe even talk to some people if you don't.
Sounds like you dislike sacrificing good food for nutritious food, why don't you eat some of the things you miss? Think your going to go to the Dr and he is going to say "You ate a rack of ribs, you now have cancer"0 -
Because you still view it all as work.
^^^This... Your view makes it seem alot like work..
Additional benefits: You maybe less stressed, you get to zone out and do your own thing while at the gym or exercising.. Look around at the different people at the gym and see what they are doing, maybe even talk to some people if you don't.
Sounds like you dislike sacrificing good food for nutritious food, why don't you eat some of the things you miss? Think your going to go to the Dr and he is going to say "You ate a rack of ribs, you now have cancer"
People seem to be missing the crux of my question (my fault!)
1) I eat sensibly and work out moderatly. Play some sport I enjoy and eat some foods I like. Maintaining my current weight
2) I eat VERY sensibly and work out very INTENSELY. Really lifting as heavy as possible. Maintaining my current weight
Now the question is this. If I follow the second option then you would think that my body would look better (stronger and fitter looking) than if I follow the first. Would this be the case? I don't think so, so why not?0 -
Because you still view it all as work.
^^^This... Your view makes it seem alot like work..
Additional benefits: You maybe less stressed, you get to zone out and do your own thing while at the gym or exercising.. Look around at the different people at the gym and see what they are doing, maybe even talk to some people if you don't.
Sounds like you dislike sacrificing good food for nutritious food, why don't you eat some of the things you miss? Think your going to go to the Dr and he is going to say "You ate a rack of ribs, you now have cancer"
People seem to be missing the crux of my question (my fault!)
1) I eat sensibly and work out moderatly. Play some sport I enjoy and eat some foods I like. Maintaining my current weight
2) I eat VERY sensibly and work out very INTENSELY. Really lifting as heavy as possible. Maintaining my current weight
Now the question is this. If I follow the second option then you would think that my body would look better (stronger and fitter looking) than if I follow the first. Would this be the case? I don't think so, so why not?
Sensible and moderate... people are going to define those differently, of course. Give an example... do you mean working out 5 days per week, heavy lifting to failure and hardcore cardio sessions every other day? Or 3 days of lifting for 45 minutes with a few brisk walks or runs thrown in? 7 days per week at an hour per day?
Are you trying to consistently eat at X amount of calories without going over or under 100-200 calories... or do you give yourself days where you can carb it up and eat more? No desserts? Or ice-cream daily?0 -
Because you still view it all as work.
^^^This... Your view makes it seem alot like work..
Additional benefits: You maybe less stressed, you get to zone out and do your own thing while at the gym or exercising.. Look around at the different people at the gym and see what they are doing, maybe even talk to some people if you don't.
Sounds like you dislike sacrificing good food for nutritious food, why don't you eat some of the things you miss? Think your going to go to the Dr and he is going to say "You ate a rack of ribs, you now have cancer"
People seem to be missing the crux of my question (my fault!)
1) I eat sensibly and work out moderatly. Play some sport I enjoy and eat some foods I like. Maintaining my current weight
2) I eat VERY sensibly and work out very INTENSELY. Really lifting as heavy as possible. Maintaining my current weight
Now the question is this. If I follow the second option then you would think that my body would look better (stronger and fitter looking) than if I follow the first. Would this be the case? I don't think so, so why not?
You're speaking in pretty relative terms, but taken at face value... If you're at maintenance cals, you'll continue to see changes over time, just not as significant or as quickly as you would if you were at a surplus or a deficit.0 -
I hear you, OP, asked a similar question.
I think it probably does take significantly more vigilance about nutrition and effort in the gym to go from 'your natural body looking pretty good' to 'who the eff is that'.
Far more than might be true for a beginner/sedentary/overweight person, who I think can improve aesthetics a lot with 3 good hours of strength a week, 300-cal deficit, & protein where it should be.
I'd be glad to know *how* much effort/vigilance makes the difference, too
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hmmm.. you have your health, you are fit, your body didnt gain in a year....you have beautiful children...a beautiful wife n are happy.....hmmm yet your fed up... look at the good my dear...i am sure it outweighs everything.
life does sucks and I know...getting to a place where a person is maintaining healthy and happy can be trying... am there and know all too well.
Take a look at what you have... be thankful...evaluate your goals...redefine and if you want them...sorry to tell you...it will be hard work...
I guess looking from where i am at...your sweat and hard work... even though you remained the same, I feel is a BIG achievement and id be smiling and so happy to have my spouse and family to enjoy it with....but I guess I am looking at my own wl journey.
No not fed up, I'm happy
My point was really that I don't quite understand how this works. If I eat quite well and go through the motions at the gym I would expect to be ABOUT the same after a year. SO what are the tangible benefits of giving it my all?
benefits are you dont' gain weight. you stay healthy.0 -
Again... it's only effort or work or whatever negative word you want to associate with it if you make it so. Find things you enjoy eating, exercises you enjoy doing, and go on with your life. Once you get things in balance and are doing what is easy and enjoyable, it only takes a little bit of awareness.
Maybe that's semantics (awareness vs effort vs work), but I think it matters here.0 -
The difference between the two options you put up would not really be aesthetically noticeable, however, if you took option two, you will be able to push harder, further, and longer than if you chose option 1.
So I ask you: What are your goals?0 -
It's like paying rent.
At the end of the year, all the money is gone, but you had the benefit of a nice place to live.0 -
Because you still view it all as work.
^^^This... Your view makes it seem alot like work..
Additional benefits: You maybe less stressed, you get to zone out and do your own thing while at the gym or exercising.. Look around at the different people at the gym and see what they are doing, maybe even talk to some people if you don't.
Sounds like you dislike sacrificing good food for nutritious food, why don't you eat some of the things you miss? Think your going to go to the Dr and he is going to say "You ate a rack of ribs, you now have cancer"
People seem to be missing the crux of my question (my fault!)
1) I eat sensibly and work out moderatly. Play some sport I enjoy and eat some foods I like. Maintaining my current weight
2) I eat VERY sensibly and work out very INTENSELY. Really lifting as heavy as possible. Maintaining my current weight
Now the question is this. If I follow the second option then you would think that my body would look better (stronger and fitter looking) than if I follow the first. Would this be the case? I don't think so, so why not?
You're speaking in pretty relative terms, but taken at face value... If you're at maintenance cals, you'll continue to see changes over time, just not as significant or as quickly as you would if you were at a surplus or a deficit.
After all of that.. I believe that you will be much leaner IF you are watching your food intake as you say you are and increasing your lean proteins. You will lean down. It's the working out intensely and eating sensibly.. and finding that balance that will maintain your weight but allow you to bulk up. You might actually gain weight and slim down.
Good luck. Be positive and enjoy the process.0 -
think of your excellent health and all of the future medical bills you are avoiding. just today I had another reminder of why our future health is so important - my mother lost her balance walking from the living room to the kitchen, could not grab anything to keep her from falling because of the lack of strength in her hands, and she fell. She only has a bruised hip and arm, but it could have been so much worse. maybe avoiding situations like this could be a good motivator?0
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Again... it's only effort or work or whatever negative word you want to associate with it if you make it so. Find things you enjoy eating, exercises you enjoy doing, and go on with your life. Once you get things in balance and are doing what is easy and enjoyable, it only takes a little bit of awareness.
Maybe that's semantics (awareness vs effort vs work), but I think it matters here.
I have no doubt you're right Attitude can make it hell or heaven.
But I think there might be some more or less objective changes that have to be made, in order to optimize aesthetic advancements once a person's reached something like the pretty end of their natural 'set point'. (I assume OP's talking about looking ripped.)
Obviously the subjective experience of time at the gym & in the kitchen or what have you matters, but however it's appreciated, it probably still takes x hours and x grams of x to push it to the next level, which is why bodybuilders have to resort to caffeine, IF, etc.
(bulking and cutting, etc etc. It's all fine if a person enjoys that, but I think - coming to deal with this myself - one has to accept limits in improvements if not willing to go there)0 -
The difference is when you don't push that hard you WILL see a deterioration. That is what I have noticed. You think now there was no difference but there is and unfortunately it is hard to see until you go the other direction and it gets harder or the weight sticks on more. The muscle slowly turns to fat etc. I have been at both and I know what you are talking about. Just easier to keep going strong than to slack up and have to pick it up again. 0
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Because you still view it all as work.
^^^This... Your view makes it seem alot like work..
Additional benefits: You maybe less stressed, you get to zone out and do your own thing while at the gym or exercising.. Look around at the different people at the gym and see what they are doing, maybe even talk to some people if you don't.
Sounds like you dislike sacrificing good food for nutritious food, why don't you eat some of the things you miss? Think your going to go to the Dr and he is going to say "You ate a rack of ribs, you now have cancer"
People seem to be missing the crux of my question (my fault!)
1) I eat sensibly and work out moderatly. Play some sport I enjoy and eat some foods I like. Maintaining my current weight
2) I eat VERY sensibly and work out very INTENSELY. Really lifting as heavy as possible. Maintaining my current weight
Now the question is this. If I follow the second option then you would think that my body would look better (stronger and fitter looking) than if I follow the first. Would this be the case? I don't think so, so why not?
Your body should look better because you are feeding it more and therefore it can build muscle more easily.
I've been maintaining since April and my body keeps look better and better with more food + lifting.0 -
If you're building strength and endurance by running, biking and lifting then you will be healthier and leaner as you'll have built muscle. If you're already lean, you'll look more toned.
You'll also be able to walk further, run further, have stronger bones, have stronger muscles and be a healthier adult. This isn't "nothing."0 -
My husband goes through this too. To change his body. He will start eating more. And I mean a lot more, mostly meat and carbs and then continues with the heavy lifting. It makes him bigger. (muscle wise) It works for him.0
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