Losing LBM & changing my routing. Need help!

GauchoMark

A little background first: I had always been athletic until about age 23, then I pretty much let myself go. Because of the muscle mass I had retained from my athletic days and my larger frame, the weight kept packing on because "it didn't look that bad" (BS, btw and just another excuse I used!). Almost exactly 2 years ago I weighed in at 305 lbs and decided to take control and quit making excuses. I cut back and started exercising and dropped about 60 lbs. Last September (about 240 lbs), I switched to a strict 500 calorie deficit (eating exercise cals back), working out with 45 minutes of resistance cardio on a cybex arc trainer followed by strength training 4 days a week to break through a plateau. I haven't changed anything because I am still losing well on this routine. Now, I am 193lbs and about 16.6%BF.

My current goal is 190 lbs and 10%BF. The weight is less important to me than the %BF, so I may drop that to about 185 or so. However, and here is my issue, in the past month I have started losing a pretty significant amount of LBM. I plotted it all out yesterday and for every 1 lb of fat I am losing, I am losing about 0.5 lb muscle (1.5 lb total loss). So, I need to make a change and can't decide what to do or how to do it.

Option 1:
Go to maintenance calories, lift heavy 4x//wk, cut back on cardio to 2x/week

Option 2:
Go to a 250 calorie deficit, lift heavy 4x//wk, cut back on cardio to 2x/week

My dilemma is which should I do since I still have weight to lose, but also need to keep/build some muscle? Is there a better way? Should I just jump in or ramp up the calories?

btw, I currently have MFP set up based off my sedentary activity and just log the calories. I use a fitbit to make adjustments to my activity level and I use an HRM whenever I am doing non-walking exercises, but I don't log weight lifting. I am 36, almost 37, 6'1", 193, 16.6%BF.
Here is my fitbit page so you can see my 30 day log: http://www.fitbit.com/user/23CZKS

arickettsjr

My vote goes to option 1. The biggest thing to remember is to give it time. Because of your BF% now things are going to slow down a bit for you. You can also try eating about 200-300 below maintenance for a month and then about 200-300 above for a month. You want to keep reminding your body that there is plenty of food and it can keep burning fat.

psuLemon

I would increase your food to about 2400 calories, cut cardio to 2 days or less (if you can do HIIT as it's much better for cutting fat) and make sure you lift heavy (failing at 8 reps). You can also make one of the lifting days into an aneorobic workout where you would work lower and upper body simultaneously.

BTW @ 10% body fat, your ideal weight is 177.

GauchoMark

so that's 2 votes for option 1.

BTW @ 10% body fat, your ideal weight is 177.

did you just do the math or is that from a chart somewhere? When i do the math I wind up at 182 if I can retain my current LBM.
CW=(.166+1)*LBM -> LBM = 165.5; GW=(.1+1)*LBM -> GW = 182

erickirb

so that's 2 votes for option 1.

BTW @ 10% body fat, your ideal weight is 177.

did you just do the math or is that from a chart somewhere? When i do the math I wind up at 182 if I can retain my current LBM.
CW=(.166+1)*LBM -> LBM = 165.5; GW=(.1+1)*LBM -> GW = 182

The issue here is that you are still going to lose some LBM if you are in a deficit, but if you are at maintenance you will not lose any weight.

Your calculation does not factor in loss of LBM, his looks like it would have taken that into account and as such would be more likely. If you don't want to get down to that low of weight, you may want to bulk when you get to 185ish, then follow up with another cut.

So you need a deficit to lose, but expect to lose about 1 lb LBM for every 3-5 lbs lost. Whey you get to a lower BF% you will lose more LBM. It is just important to get adequate protein, have a small deficit (following MFP would be 0.5lbs/week, or if using TDEE go TDEE -10-15%), and lift relatively heavy.

GauchoMark

yes, that is exactly my debate. I don't want to get down that low because of the LBM I will lose. I kinda like the idea of stopping and doing a bulk cycle.

What do you think about alternating bulk and cut for about a month at a time until I get there? Like maybe switching to 100 or so over maintenance for a month, then back to 250-500 below the next and keep cycling until I am happy?

ArroganceInStep

yes, that is exactly my debate. I don't want to get down that low because of the LBM I will lose. I kinda like the idea of stopping and doing a bulk cycle.

What do you think about alternating bulk and cut for about a month at a time until I get there? Like maybe switching to 100 or so over maintenance for a month, then back to 250-500 below the next and keep cycling until I am happy?

I got this from Paul Carter, and I've found a lot of what he says resonates with me and seems to work so take it with a grain of salt. Bulking and cutting should be betwen 10% and 15% BF. Too much outside of that and you'll either have too much fat to come off and cuts will take forever (and your strength and mass gains will suffer) or you'll have too little fat and will strip off mass anyhow.

erickirb

yes, that is exactly my debate. I don't want to get down that low because of the LBM I will lose. I kinda like the idea of stopping and doing a bulk cycle.

What do you think about alternating bulk and cut for about a month at a time until I get there? Like maybe switching to 100 or so over maintenance for a month, then back to 250-500 below the next and keep cycling until I am happy?

For the bulk I would suggest 250+ over maintenance (you need the fuel to gain), then cut at 250-400 under maintenance. That said I would suggest longer than 1 month, I would say 8 weeks as a minimum though I would suggest 12 week cycles. My last cut was 16 weeks, but I was aiming for and achieved a loss of 0.3-0.4 lbs/week, other than the first week where I lost 2 (glycogen stores lowered = water weight loss)

If you want to do 100 cals over maintenance I would suggest a bulk of 3-4 months, that would equate to a gain of 3.0 to .3.5 lbs, some of which will be fat.

GauchoMark

I got this from Paul Carter, and I've found a lot of what he says resonates with me and seems to work so take it with a grain of salt. Bulking and cutting should be betwen 10% and 15% BF. Too much outside of that and you'll either have too much fat to come off and cuts will take forever (and your strength and mass gains will suffer) or you'll have too little fat and will strip off mass anyhow.

So are you suggesting that I continue cutting at my current pace until I get closer to maybe 12-13% and just accept that I am going to lose some LBM and gain it back later?

psuLemon

I got this from Paul Carter, and I've found a lot of what he says resonates with me and seems to work so take it with a grain of salt. Bulking and cutting should be betwen 10% and 15% BF. Too much outside of that and you'll either have too much fat to come off and cuts will take forever (and your strength and mass gains will suffer) or you'll have too little fat and will strip off mass anyhow.

So are you suggesting that I continue cutting at my current pace until I get closer to maybe 12-13% and just accept that I am going to lose some LBM and gain it back later?

What I did was cut from 18% to 12% and then did a bulk phase (gained 10 lbs) @ 20% above TDEE (only increase BF to 12.33% but we can account for measuring error. Give or take, I gained 1-2 lbs of fat along with 8-9 lbs of muscle. Now I am in another cut phase aiming to get single digits at 20% below TDEE 5 days a week and 2 days of maintenance.


ps- i did try to assume a small loss of muscle during the weight loss. Ideally 10% or less. But your lean body mass calc is also 4 lbs off.

ArroganceInStep

I got this from Paul Carter, and I've found a lot of what he says resonates with me and seems to work so take it with a grain of salt. Bulking and cutting should be betwen 10% and 15% BF. Too much outside of that and you'll either have too much fat to come off and cuts will take forever (and your strength and mass gains will suffer) or you'll have too little fat and will strip off mass anyhow.

So are you suggesting that I continue cutting at my current pace until I get closer to maybe 12-13% and just accept that I am going to lose some LBM and gain it back later?

Basically. I'm not saying to disregard potential muscle loss, just to accept that you're going to lose some.
1) Are you getting enough protein in your diet?
2) Are you getting enough sleep?
3) Are you consistently following a smart resistance training program?

If you answered yes to all of those, keep the cut until you get to a lower body fat %, closer to what your ultimate goal BF is anyway. At some point, you're going to have to cut down to that low body fat percentage, and staying in the higher digits isn't going to help you gain mass. Also remember that you want to be doing this slowly, as erickirb advised. Good luck.