Diet breaks and loosening the reigns

mmapags

It just is needed sometimes!

stroutman81

Hey, no complaints here about boinking.

lauratws

Another great thread.

70davis

Bump

runfreddyrun

great post. so i have two questions. i've been doing MFP for over 7 weeks now and have done really well.

tomorrow i am going have what i am calling a binge meal. it won't really be binging, because i've already planned out what i'm going to eat. i've only done this 2 other times since i started. essentially, i'm just going to get something that i like, that i haven't had in over two months. and drink a few beers. i still want to be intentional about how many calories i consume this day though. normally i have 1470 calories including exercise calories. tomorrow i plan to eat about 2600 or 2700, so about 1200 over what i normally would have, but i'm also going on an hour ride and will burn 500 calories. my maintenance for my CW is about 1950, so essentially i would be eating at maintenance plus 200. is this a good strategy or is it too much?

also, in two weeks i'm going to the beach for a week with my family. since that will be my 10th week of MFP, it seemed like a good week to eat at maintenance. should i eat at maintenance plus any calories i burn with exercise? so it would be 1950 + whatever i burn? i wasn't sure about this.

thanks!

stroutman81

great post. so i have two questions. i've been doing MFP for over 7 weeks now and have done really well.

tomorrow i am going have what i am calling a binge meal. it won't really be binging, because i've already planned out what i'm going to eat. i've only done this 2 other times since i started. essentially, i'm just going to get something that i like, that i haven't had in over two months. and drink a few beers. i still want to be intentional about how many calories i consume this day though. normally i have 1470 calories including exercise calories. tomorrow i plan to eat about 2600 or 2700, so about 1200 over what i normally would have, but i'm also going on an hour ride and will burn 500 calories. my maintenance for my CW is about 1950, so essentially i would be eating at maintenance plus 200. is this a good strategy or is it too much?

also, in two weeks i'm going to the beach for a week with my family. since that will be my 10th week of MFP, it seemed like a good week to eat at maintenance. should i eat at maintenance plus any calories i burn with exercise? so it would be 1950 + whatever i burn? i wasn't sure about this.

thanks!

Let me preface this by saying in the initial stages of fat loss, a degree of rigidity is in order. Otherwise people tend to flail about never really gaining any traction. How much rigidity definitely depends on the individual. Therefore it's difficult to say what's right/wrong for your given situation.

On a physiological level though, I wouldn't sweat a 200 calorie surplus at all. Remember. 3500 calories in one pound of fat.

And here's what I'm really getting at here. If I want to go out to eat, I do it and I don't consider calories. If I'm going on vacation, I don't limit my intake. I'm simply reasonable with the frequency at which I do these things. Obviously if you're eating out and travel comprise a majority of your schedule, more discipline needs to be exerted.

When they're not daily occurrences though, I just don't see them as being overly important.

Here's why...

This is a process or losing and than managing weight. That process, theoretically, extends for your entire life, starting right now (or whenever you started your diet). Going 'off plan' here and there are so miniscule in the grand scheme that they don't even register on the radar screen. It's the bigger scope and the drawn out trend of behavior that yields the actual results.

People tend to get so inundated with day to day or even week to week happenings that they wind up placing far too much importance/value on variables that really matter very little in the grand scheme. Unless they let them matter, of course.

I'm not so sure that was a helpful message or not, but I felt like it needed saying.

runfreddyrun

Let me preface this by saying in the initial stages of fat loss, a degree of rigidity is in order. Otherwise people tend to flail about never really gaining any traction. How much rigidity definitely depends on the individual. Therefore it's difficult to say what's right/wrong for your given situation.

On a physiological level though, I wouldn't sweat a 200 calorie surplus at all. Remember. 3500 calories in one pound of fat.

And here's what I'm really getting at here. If I want to go out to eat, I do it and I don't consider calories. If I'm going on vacation, I don't limit my intake. I'm simply reasonable with the frequency at which I do these things. Obviously if you're eating out and travel comprise a majority of your schedule, more discipline needs to be exerted.

When they're not daily occurrences though, I just don't see them as being overly important.

Here's why...

This is a process or losing and than managing weight. That process, theoretically, extends for your entire life, starting right now (or whenever you started your diet). Going 'off plan' here and there are so miniscule in the grand scheme that they don't even register on the radar screen. It's the bigger scope and the drawn out trend of behavior that yields the actual results.

People tend to get so inundated with day to day or even week to week happenings that they wind up placing far too much importance/value on variables that really matter very little in the grand scheme. Unless they let them matter, of course.

I'm not so sure that was a helpful message or not, but I felt like it needed saying.

i agree totally. i guess i was asking more about the planned diet breaks to help with metabolism. you seem to support this. i can go on vacation for a week and have no trouble sticking my plan but my question was more, is there value in taking a diet break during that time and if so, how exactly does it work/look.

thanks!

stroutman81

Let me preface this by saying in the initial stages of fat loss, a degree of rigidity is in order. Otherwise people tend to flail about never really gaining any traction. How much rigidity definitely depends on the individual. Therefore it's difficult to say what's right/wrong for your given situation.

On a physiological level though, I wouldn't sweat a 200 calorie surplus at all. Remember. 3500 calories in one pound of fat.

And here's what I'm really getting at here. If I want to go out to eat, I do it and I don't consider calories. If I'm going on vacation, I don't limit my intake. I'm simply reasonable with the frequency at which I do these things. Obviously if you're eating out and travel comprise a majority of your schedule, more discipline needs to be exerted.

When they're not daily occurrences though, I just don't see them as being overly important.

Here's why...

This is a process or losing and than managing weight. That process, theoretically, extends for your entire life, starting right now (or whenever you started your diet). Going 'off plan' here and there are so miniscule in the grand scheme that they don't even register on the radar screen. It's the bigger scope and the drawn out trend of behavior that yields the actual results.

People tend to get so inundated with day to day or even week to week happenings that they wind up placing far too much importance/value on variables that really matter very little in the grand scheme. Unless they let them matter, of course.

I'm not so sure that was a helpful message or not, but I felt like it needed saying.

i agree totally. i guess i was asking more about the planned diet breaks to help with metabolism. you seem to support this. i can go on vacation for a week and have no trouble sticking my plan but my question was more, is there value in taking a diet break during that time and if so, how exactly does it work/look.

thanks!

I'd argue that diet breaks tend to be more of a psychological buffer more than anything physiological. It seems that breaks offset and reverse some of the adaptations that occur in response to extended energy deficits. But there's no strong data that supports the idea that this reversal of adaptations is long term.

I suppose you could make an argument for periodic spikes to help fuel progress... but I think it's a stretch.

The problem is, these adaptations track very closely with fat mass. Lose lots of fat, drive up the level of adaptation. So in reality, the only way to 'permanently' offset the adaptations would be to gain the fat back.

Granted, your mileage my vary as this isn't hard coded for each and every one of us exactly the same.

But my current stance, which is subject to change, is that diet breaks likely aren't that critical on a physiological basis. I still think they're important, if for nothing more than a psychological break.

That said, I have had circumstances where clients came to me who I'd label 'chronic dieters.' They've seemingly managed to be in a deficit for a year and often times longer. And they're plateaued. In a number of these cases, bringing their intake up to maintenance and reducing exercise for a length of time (2 weeks to 1-2 months) has helped substantially.

I personally take a break from dieting with myself and clients one week out of every 8-12 generally speaking.

SideSteel

If I want to go out to eat, I do it and I don't consider calories. If I'm going on vacation, I don't limit my intake. I'm simply reasonable with the frequency at which I do these things. Obviously if you're eating out and travel comprise a majority of your schedule, more discipline needs to be exerted.

When they're not daily occurrences though, I just don't see them as being overly important.

Here's why...

This is a process or losing and than managing weight. That process, theoretically, extends for your entire life, starting right now (or whenever you started your diet). Going 'off plan' here and there are so miniscule in the grand scheme that they don't even register on the radar screen. It's the bigger scope and the drawn out trend of behavior that yields the actual results.

People tend to get so inundated with day to day or even week to week happenings that they wind up placing far too much importance/value on variables that really matter very little in the grand scheme. Unless they let them matter, of course.

I'm not so sure that was a helpful message or not, but I felt like it needed saying.

^ Epic post. Couldn't possibly agree more.

stroutman81

Thanks man. Great picture, btw!

mmapags

It is both a great post and an awesome picture of the steel boys!

isunn7

Remember it is always good to have a break once a week where you eat a meal that you have been craving. It really helps and to not feel guilty about it you focus on the fact that you deserve it!! Also if you increase your cardio and burn more calories during the week (even just 10 more cal. at each work out) those extra calories from that one yummy meal will not matter. :0 ) Enjoy we all have a bad week or day.

islandgirl3333

Bump

caseydimples

Bump - so far great read. Saving for later!

stroutman81

Remember it is always good to have a break once a week where you eat a meal that you have been craving. It really helps and to not feel guilty about it you focus on the fact that you deserve it!! Also if you increase your cardio and burn more calories during the week (even just 10 more cal. at each work out) those extra calories from that one yummy meal will not matter. :0 ) Enjoy we all have a bad week or day.

Things can't be so simply applied to everyone. In some cases a weekly break is fine. In others it's a terrible idea.

And in some cases increasing cardio will help. In others, it'll raise hunger through the roof.

We can't provide blanket advice like this.

mmapags

Remember it is always good to have a break once a week where you eat a meal that you have been craving. It really helps and to not feel guilty about it you focus on the fact that you deserve it!! Also if you increase your cardio and burn more calories during the week (even just 10 more cal. at each work out) those extra calories from that one yummy meal will not matter. :0 ) Enjoy we all have a bad week or day.

Things can't be so simply applied to everyone. In some cases a weekly break is fine. In others it's a terrible idea.

And in some cases increasing cardio will help. In others, it'll raise hunger through the roof.

We can't provide blanket advice like this.

Totally agree.

mmapags

Time for another boink!

slimtrimgoody

First of all, don't think about a diet because diets fail. Think about a lifestyle change. Eat whatever you want only limit your calorie intake by following the guidelines indicated for your height and weight and gender. In time -- slowly but surely -- day by day, ease into making wiser food choices. Work your way up to eating 5 fruits and veggies daily. Eat a variety of foods so that you do not get bored. Reward yourself when you reach established mini goals that you set for yourself. For example, I will lose 1 pound this week and when that happens give yourself a treat --- something that you enjoy that is not edible. Also, surround yourself with like minded people who can support and motivate you. Start doing activities that you enjoy. For example if you like to bowl, go bowling with friends, have fun and burn calories at the same time. Be creative! Remember that you did not gain the weight overnight and you will not lose the weight overnight --- neither will you stop all of the bad eating habits you have overnight. Have patience with yourself. Trust that you can do this --- because you can. Learn to use a variety of self help tips for keeping yourself motivated. There are many good books that you can find on amazon.com that can keep you motivated as you continue this journey on a lifestyle change. Don't ever give up on yourself! Good-luck and keep us posted on your success!!

mmapags

Thanks for the pep talk coach. Did you read through the thread? It was started by a well respected fitness and nutrition proffesional. I don't think he is discouraged about his progress. Or giving up on himself.

geekyjock76

When I sit down with a client, one of the first things I establish is their eating trends - specifically, how many calories have they been eating over the passed 6 months or year. Although many people likely won't know the calories, they can state staple foods they eat daily over the course of that questioned period of time.

There was one particular lady who handed me a food journal which consisted of foods she chronically ate for over a year that totaled 700 calories. When asked to list foods she typically ate during college, in comparison, it came to approximately 2000 calories. Naturally, she insisted that she was meeting the energy needs of her body by consuming a meager 700 calories because she didn't feel hungry...

I find that many people, mainly women like the one I just recalled, end up engaging in calorie restriction even when they are not actively trying to lose weight. This is no surprise since a person's maintenance range will decrease as long as they continue at a deficit indefinitely thanks to certain endocrinological changes I'll mention later.

You have two general approaches of weight loss: a) cyclical periods of calorie/energy restriction vs near or at maintenance levels and b) persistence of chronic calorie/energy restriction.

Many posters here follow the latter strategy which explains their endocrinological and psychological alterations - ie depressed RMR and leptin concentration levels, perhaps coupled with a sharp rise in cortisol, and paranoia over weight regain when thinking about upping calories to levels which are still well below one's natural TDEE. Once the paranoia manifests, they are genuinely at risk of disordered eating if they continue this weight loss strategy.

For these individuals, the only way for them to continue reducing body weight - if they insist on sustaining calorie restriction indefinitely until they reach their goal weight - is to drop calories even lower which was demonstrated in the infamous Minnesota Semi-starvation Experiment. That is to say, each time they stall, they'll need to eat less than before to illicit further weight loss. The major downside to this, aside from greater degrees of the above mentioned alterations, is the loss of substantially more lean body mass vs fat mass as one continues to lower intake.

For these reasons, it's important for many people to take periodic breaks and return to at or near maintenance so [physically and psychologically] they can stay within normal parameters which will be adaptive to sustainable weight loss and favorable body composition.