Westside Barbell vs 5/3/1

Jersey_Devil

Which do you prefer for strength training?

mustgetmuscles1

Bumping to hear opinions. Starting my first bulk this month and think I am going with the 531. I enjoy higher volume programs and I am as interested in mass building as strength gains so its hard to decide on a program.

Jersey_Devil

im leaning towards 5/3/1 because a good friend whose been lifting for 20 years recommended it. My only concern is that it seems you hit each body part once per week on the 4 day program. (For instance, chest once per week, back once per week, etc...)Im wondering if that is too much rest between specific body part workouts, but i realize there is a fatigue factor involved with heavy training.) While Im leaning towards 5/3/1 its the "dynamic effort days" of Westside that kind of sparked my interest in that program-- to work a body part twice a week just not nearly as heavy. Anyone have a preference?

mustgetmuscles1

I went to the http://www.strstd.com/ and then picked the Dave Tate's Option for accessory work. It basically makes it an upper/lower split so each muscle group is getting hit twice per week.

The 531 workout is for strength gains but the accessory work recommends more of hypertrophy rep range. I think this is a perfect hybrid program for me.

Jersey_Devil

yeah i like how he divides it up for powerlifting or bodybuilding for the accessory work. I checked out strstd earlier today. haha

buda12345

I do a 531 type routine. I'm up to 105 on the bench already. :laugh: They will both work, the key is to stay healthy and use mostly compound lifts.

homeyjosey

RPT

TexasTroy

Im not real familiar with this program. a poster previously stated that the 531 calls for training a bodypart only once a week. That is how I have always done my training. One bodypart a day 5 days a week. rountine: Monday- Shoulders, Tues-Arms, Wed-Legs, Thurs-chest and Friday back. The thing about training a body part 1 day a week, is that on that day, that body part has got to be destroyed...the intensity of your workout has got to be extremely high. Ive never spent more than 30 minutes on a single workout and some- the shoulders especially I can get done in no more than 12-15 minutes but during that time, its complete intensity and focus. Its great for me and throughout my training this has been the program i have gotten the best results on. Leg days are the best..in and out in less than 30 minutes and can hardly walk when done-fun times, lol. I like this type of workout cause one, it works and two it gets you in and outta the gym very fast. For putting on mass, definitely stick with the basic's...squats, deadlifts, Barbell Rows...basically anything heavy and that uses the most muscles. damn..im getting fired up just thinking about it...guess I will go workout. later.

JNick77

They are both excellent methods, 5/3/1 is a little more straight-forward and Westside is a little more flexible but will deliver better results if your diet is appropriate. If you're on a cut, do not do Westside.

Westside's Dynamic Effort days can be absolutely brutal. Although you're only working with 50% to 60% of your 1RM you're pressing the weight explosively and you're only resting about 30-seconds between sets. A squat day with 50% of your 1RM is about 10 - 12 sets of 2 reps. Then following the Squat work you do about 8sets of 1 reps of deadlifting. Then you need to crank out some Good Mornings, Back Hyperextensions, and maybe Pull-Throughs or Glute Ham Raises. Then you have a Maximum Effort day where you work up to your true 1RM in one particular lift, you can always work towards a 3RM, 4 or 5RM if you wanted. A typical week is something like, Mon = Lower Body DE, Tue = Upper Body ME, Wed is rest or an extra workout for weak points, Thu = Lower Body ME day, Fri = Upper Body DE day, Sat/Sun whatever... rest or weak point days. You should not be on a cut when you're doing this program, it's hard to recover from otherwise. Between DE days and the accessory work it's not hard to put on some mass. Definitely buy a good book by Louis Simmons or another strong Westside disciple. Also, Joe DeFranco's Westside for Skinny *kitten* 3 is very cool and a little more straight-forward.

5/3/1 is a little more straight-forward than Westside and provides plenty of volume as well. The main lift isn't much volume but the accessory work at 5 sets of 10 makes up for it. A shoulder press day might look something like,
- OHP (5/3/1) format, so week 1 would be 5 reps, 5 reps, 5 or more reps
- One Big Accessory Movement (if you choose this template) is 10 reps, 10-reps, 10-reps (the weight increments each set and reps change each week)
- DB OHP: 5 sets of 10
- Dips 5 sets of 10
- Chin-ups 5 sets of 10
- Ab's
Go home

I think 5/3/1 is easier to do on a cut but don't overdo the accessory work. Jim provides a couple options for setting up your 5/3/1 plan, the 2nd edition book is great.

Determinednoob

im leaning towards 5/3/1 because a good friend whose been lifting for 20 years recommended it. My only concern is that it seems you hit each body part once per week on the 4 day program. (For instance, chest once per week, back once per week, etc...)Im wondering if that is too much rest between specific body part workouts, but i realize there is a fatigue factor involved with heavy training.) While Im leaning towards 5/3/1 its the "dynamic effort days" of Westside that kind of sparked my interest in that program-- to work a body part twice a week just not nearly as heavy. Anyone have a preference?

Well it depends on your training level and if you want to get as strong as you can as fast as you can, and are willing to eat a ton. If strong as possible as fast as possible is the goal, then a beginner strength routine with lower volume and higher frequency is best. If you don't care about getting your lifts up as fast, then it's not such a big deal. I would still recommend a completely untrained person run a beginner strength routine for a few months at least since your lifts can go up SO FAST at that stage. Maybe at least until you have stalled on each lift once. Normal time to run something like SS is til you stall on squats 2 or 3 times.

Also along with the 2 routines mentioned, if pure strength is the goal, there is Texas Method or Madcow's 5x5 for intermediate lifters.

JNick77

im leaning towards 5/3/1 because a good friend whose been lifting for 20 years recommended it. My only concern is that it seems you hit each body part once per week on the 4 day program. (For instance, chest once per week, back once per week, etc...)Im wondering if that is too much rest between specific body part workouts, but i realize there is a fatigue factor involved with heavy training.) While Im leaning towards 5/3/1 its the "dynamic effort days" of Westside that kind of sparked my interest in that program-- to work a body part twice a week just not nearly as heavy. Anyone have a preference?

Well it depends on your training level and if you want to get as strong as you can as fast as you can, and are willing to eat a ton. If strong as possible as fast as possible is the goal, then a beginner strength routine with lower volume and higher frequency is best. If you don't care about getting your lifts up as fast, then it's not such a big deal. I would still recommend a completely untrained person run a beginner strength routine for a few months at least since your lifts can go up SO FAST at that stage. Maybe at least until you have stalled on each lift once. Normal time to run something like SS is til you stall on squats 2 or 3 times.

Also along with the 2 routines mentioned, if pure strength is the goal, there is Texas Method or Madcow's 5x5 for intermediate lifters.

Is the OP a beginner? I've ready Louie's big book "The Westside Book of Principles" and he indicated that it's fine for intermediate users to start and even beginners. But having done Joe's for a while and running the full-on Westside Method I would personally not recommend it to a beginner either. If you are an Intermediate I would at least read his book or a couple books. I know Dave Tate has books on ME and DE lifting as well but it's always good to hear it from the horse's mouth (Louie Simmons). The Westside Method can actually put strength on very quickly. I added 35 lbs to my true 1RM Deadlift and 25lbs to my true 1RM Squat in 4 weeks of Westside. But after about three months of WS and a calorie deficit it was burning me out, even after de-loading. It can be intense.

Texas Method I haven't read so I can't really speak to that. Madcow on paper seems fine but I would think that once you advance as a lifter you need to start bringing up lagging or supporting muscle groups, so a little accessory work is needed. I've also watched a seminar with Louie and he was discussing how very specific parts of certain muscles like the tricep contribute to a lift and how to work those areas with accessory work that the compound movement doesn't completely develop. He's a very smart man, watch some of his video's on YouTube if you can. Which method you use really just comes down to personal preference.

Determinednoob

im leaning towards 5/3/1 because a good friend whose been lifting for 20 years recommended it. My only concern is that it seems you hit each body part once per week on the 4 day program. (For instance, chest once per week, back once per week, etc...)Im wondering if that is too much rest between specific body part workouts, but i realize there is a fatigue factor involved with heavy training.) While Im leaning towards 5/3/1 its the "dynamic effort days" of Westside that kind of sparked my interest in that program-- to work a body part twice a week just not nearly as heavy. Anyone have a preference?

Well it depends on your training level and if you want to get as strong as you can as fast as you can, and are willing to eat a ton. If strong as possible as fast as possible is the goal, then a beginner strength routine with lower volume and higher frequency is best. If you don't care about getting your lifts up as fast, then it's not such a big deal. I would still recommend a completely untrained person run a beginner strength routine for a few months at least since your lifts can go up SO FAST at that stage. Maybe at least until you have stalled on each lift once. Normal time to run something like SS is til you stall on squats 2 or 3 times.

Also along with the 2 routines mentioned, if pure strength is the goal, there is Texas Method or Madcow's 5x5 for intermediate lifters.

For some reason I can't see page one... is the OP a beginner? I've ready Louie's big book "The Westside Book of Principles" and he indicated that it's fine for intermediate users to start and even beginners. But having done Joe's for a while and running the full-on Westside Method I would personally not recommend it to a beginner either. If you are an Intermediate I would at least read his book or a couple books. I know Dave Tate has books on ME and DE lifting as well but it's always good to hear it from the horse's mouth (Louie Simmons). The Westside Method can actually put strength on very quickly. I added 35 lbs to my true 1RM Deadlift and 25lbs to my true 1RM Squat in 4 weeks of Westside. But after about three months of WS and a calorie deficit it was burning me out, even after de-loading. It can be intense.

Texas Method I haven't read so I can't really speak to that. Madcow on paper seems fine but I would think that once you advance as a lifter you need to start bringing up lagging or supporting muscle groups, so a little accessory work is needed. I've also watched a seminar with Louie and he was discussing how very specific parts of certain muscles like the tricep contribute to a lift and how to work those areas with accessory work that the compound movement doesn't completely develop. He's a very smart man, watch some of his video's on YouTube if you can. Which method you use really just comes down to personal preference.

He didn't really say. I think Texas Method is discussed in Rippetoe's Practical Programming. I haven't looked much into since pure strength isn't my main goal long term even though it sorta is for the moment. I'm gonna try out 5/3/1 BBB after I get my numbers up (squats in particular cause they were lagging)some with Starting Strength. Got a ways to go yet, but have gone from work sets of 175 during my cut that ended a few weeks ago to works sets of 220 this afternoon. Theoretically someone my height should be able to get work sets up near 300 on it although I'm not sure this only body can handle linear progression that high that fast that long squatting 3x per week adding weight every time (minus stalls>resets). Especially without eating so much that fat gain becomes too much.

I do know Texas Method has a volume day that people say is crazy and then of course power since that is what it's focus is. I have also seen people mention it being a tough routine overall. Another popular intermediate routine is of course PHAT which has the high volume hypertrophy days and then lower volume power days.

JNick77

He didn't really say. I think Texas Method is discussed in Rippetoe's Practical Programming. I haven't looked much into since pure strength isn't my main goal long term even though it sorta is for the moment. I'm gonna try out 5/3/1 BBB after I get my numbers up (squats in particular cause they were lagging)some with Starting Strength. Got a ways to go yet, but have gone from work sets of 175 during my cut that ended a few weeks ago to works sets of 220 this afternoon. Theoretically someone my height should be able to get work sets up near 300 on it although I'm not sure this only body can handle linear progression that high that fast that long squatting 3x per week adding weight every time (minus stalls>resets). Especially without eating so much that fat gain becomes too much.

I do know Texas Method has a volume day that people say is crazy and then of course power since that is what it's focus is. I have also seen people mention it being a tough routine overall. Another popular intermediate routine is of course PHAT which has the high volume hypertrophy days and then lower volume power days.

Yeah, linear progression definitely has it's limits. You're really into this stuff too. I'd e-mail you the Westside Book if it weren't 75MB's. LOL