Cals in vs Cals out? WTF is the problem!!??

Lozze

I honestly find that once I start doing weights my weight loss stops. It's incredibly frustrating when you are still quite heavy. First time it was four months and was up/down the same 5kg. Stopped and dropped 7kg in the past two months. I just restarted and the up and down has started again. I know all the rationale for weight lifting but when you still have 30kg to lose looking smaller doesn't feel so good!

DawnieB1977

Hi Bella
I can totally understand your frustration about the weight loss plateau. In June/July I don't think I lost a single pound, despite eating well, exercising loads, being busy at work, and running after my 2 young kids. Then over the Summer holidays (I'm a teacher), I lost a pound a week. So 7 weeks off and when i went back to work all my colleagues were commenting on how slim I looked! Although I had been losing inches still when I wasn't losing pounds. So perhaps stress can contribute to lack of weight loss? Although I think it's totally random and I try not to stress too much about weight and focus on measurements instead.

I had a quick look through your diary for a few days and it seems that a lot of days you are over on fat or sugar, although you have lots of 'perfect' days too. So my only suggestion would be to watch your fat and sugar intake.

I tried following Slimming World once and didn't lose a lot of weight, because carbs do not work for me. If i ate pasta for lunch and for dinner but stayed under my calorie goal I can guarantee I wouldn't lose weight. For that reason I try to keep my carbs low, rarely eat pasta, and limit myself to only 1 slice of bread most days. So I don't entirely buy into the 'cals in vs cals out' thing. For me it really does depend on where those calories come from.

When I was losing weight for my wedding I remember I had a week where I had no bread/pasta/rice.potatoes but I did have some chocolate, cheese etc, and i lost about 3lbs. So carbs for me are more harmful that fat I think!

LorinaLynn

I know all the rationale for weight lifting but when you still have 30kg to lose looking smaller doesn't feel so good!

I don't understand that at all. If you didn't have a scale, and didn't know how much you weighed, wouldn't you be thrilled at looking smaller? I know find it a lot more satisfying to have to buy new clothes because my old ones are falling down than I am with changes on the scale.

It's kind of like, would you rather a promotion at work with a fancy title, or one with a great big pay raise?

BlisterLamb

I've had the problem for the last 5 years. Sometimes calories in/calories out doesn't make a difference if you have an underlying medical problem. I lost over 100 pounds and then plateaued for 5 YEARS! I stopped losing and eventually started gaining, WHILE EATING AT A DEFICIT. It seemed my body was doing the impossible. I was gaining weight while burning more than I was taking in. It took 5 years of frustration before I was diagnosed with Hashimotos. It is an autoimmune disease and it causes weight gain. I don't know how it allows your body to gain weight...fat actually...on a deficit of calories but it bloody well does and there are probably 100 other people on her with Hashimoto's that will tell you the same thing. I suggest getting your thyroid antibodies checked, as well as a saliva test for your hormone levels.

DizzyLinds

Hi Bella
I can totally understand your frustration about the weight loss plateau. In June/July I don't think I lost a single pound, despite eating well, exercising loads, being busy at work, and running after my 2 young kids. Then over the Summer holidays (I'm a teacher), I lost a pound a week. So 7 weeks off and when i went back to work all my colleagues were commenting on how slim I looked! Although I had been losing inches still when I wasn't losing pounds. So perhaps stress can contribute to lack of weight loss? Although I think it's totally random and I try not to stress too much about weight and focus on measurements instead.

I had a quick look through your diary for a few days and it seems that a lot of days you are over on fat or sugar, although you have lots of 'perfect' days too. So my only suggestion would be to watch your fat and sugar intake.

I tried following Slimming World once and didn't lose a lot of weight, because carbs do not work for me. If i ate pasta for lunch and for dinner but stayed under my calorie goal I can guarantee I wouldn't lose weight. For that reason I try to keep my carbs low, rarely eat pasta, and limit myself to only 1 slice of bread most days. So I don't entirely buy into the 'cals in vs cals out' thing. For me it really does depend on where those calories come from.

When I was losing weight for my wedding I remember I had a week where I had no bread/pasta/rice.potatoes but I did have some chocolate, cheese etc, and i lost about 3lbs. So carbs for me are more harmful that fat I think!

I'm a teacher too....and this happened to be. I think that stress is a massive contributer as i've now gained back.

rollieorial

Hi! Just a suggestion. Cut down on calories from pure carbs. Based on studies and books, "carbs drive insulin production which then drive fat storage..." This means the calories you eat (with carbs) that exceed the bodies max level will be stored in your fat cells mostly. Now, I know this is quite hard to believe, so I tried it myself and experienced quite a fast rate of body fat loss. Couple this with low level aerobic workouts and watch those fats melt away! Good luck!

Jxnsmma

The results of this scientific, peer-reviewed study strongly disagree with your opinion:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/hormonal-responses-to-a-fast-food-meal-compared-with-nutritionally-comparable-meals-of-different-composition-research-review.html

Did you actually read it? It totally states that "300 calories of jellybeans is not at all the same as eating 300 calories of chicken breast". Its trying to say having a cheat meal isnt going to be "death on a plate", but that the majority of your calories should come from good healthy food with good macros...

If people seriously think eating a big mac and a donut has the same effects on your body in regard to weight loss, health in general and building lean muscle, as eating the same amount of calories worth of tuna and broccoli, then you really need some help.... Find a good dietician. really...

AnvilHead

Did you actually read it? It totally states that "300 calories of jellybeans is not at all the same as eating 300 calories of chicken breast". Its trying to say having a cheat meal isnt going to be "death on a plate", but that the majority of your calories should come from good healthy food with good macros...

If people seriously think eating a big mac and a donut has the same effects on your body in regard to weight loss, health in general and building lean muscle, as eating the same amount of calories worth of tuna and broccoli, then you really need some help.... Find a good dietician. really...

Did YOU actually read it, or just cherry-pick what you wanted out of it to make a completely unrelated point? I'm not arguing that a diet of donuts and jellybeans = a diet of tuna and broccoli. The post I responded to included this snippet of wisdom:

...All food is NOT metabolized in the Body the same way because some will cause the release/excess release of INSULIN and cause the Rapid rise of Blood Sugar. To keep it as simple as possible: THIS causes the "holding on" of calories and turning into Fat;...

Which is clearly disproven by the linked study.

Let me include a couple excerpts from Lyle's analysis/discussion (emphasis added):

In terms of the blood glucose and insulin response, no difference was seen between any of the meals and this is true whether the data was presented in terms of percentage or absolute change from baseline. The same held true for the ratio of insulin/glucose, no change was seen between any of the meals. Please read those sentences again: the blood glucose and insulin response were identical for all three meals despite one being a fast food ‘unclean’ meal and the other two being organic ‘clean’ meals.

Fatty acid levels showed slight differences, dropping rapidly and then returning to baseline by 5 hours in the beef meals but 6 hours in the turkey meal. Blood triglyceride levels reached a slightly higher peak in the organic beef and turkey meals compared to the fast food meal but this wasn’t significant.

Changes in leptin were not significant between groups; ghrelin was suppressed equally after all three meals but rose above baseline 5 hours after the fast-food lunch but returned only to baseline in the other two meals.

The only significant difference found in the study was that LDL cholesterol decreased more after both of the organic meals compared to the fast food meal, HDL and total cholesterol showed no change after any of the meals. This was thought to be due to differences in the fatty acid content of the meals (saturated fat typically having a greater negative impact on blood lipid levels than other types of fat).

However, beyond that, there were no differences seen in the response of blood glucose, insulin, blood fatty acids or anything else measured.

However, with that said (along with the fact that the meals weren’t exactly identical), the basic fact is this: the metabolic response between the three meals was essentially identical. There were no differences in either insulin or blood glucose, the fatty acid profile makes perfect sense given the composition of the meals and blood lipids showed basically no change.

Given caloric control, the body’s response to a given set of nutrients, with the exception of blood lipids would appear to be more determined by the total caloric and macro content of that meal more than the source of the food.

In terms of the hormonal response, clean vs. unclean just doesn’t matter, it’s all about calories and macros.

Oh, and thanks for your analysis that I "really need help" and your most excellent suggestion to "find a good dietician", but I'm doing just fine without either. Really. Some of us require that obsessive "all or nothing approach" to eating and exercise, while some of us are able to be quite successful while allowing much more flexibility. I happen to fall into the latter category.

goldfinger88

Calories in/Calories out do not work. It's the quality of the food you eat and the quality of the exercise that matters.

californiagirl2012

Hey all, was wondering if you can help me out. I see all over the boards how this is what matters, but why does this not seem to be the case where I am concerned? I wear a body media fit so I have my calorie burn daily and I figure out my deficit daily and then for the week, and it always says I should lose X amount, and it isn't happening!! What gives!!?

*I do understand that the armband is only 95% effective, but way more effective then guessing*

If cals in vs cals out will guarantee weight loss, then can someone tell me what the problem is? I will clarify, as of now I have been stalled out for about 6 weeks or so, so I figured that may be why there is no progress at the moment, but I have been tracking my cals burned and deficit this way for a year (before MFP) and it has always been this way. In the past I had huge deficits a day, around 1000 to 1500, and I never had the losses like it said I should, but I found out here that there is such a thing as too BIG of a deficit. I did lose but not what it said I should be around, but I still had a loss so didn't think much of it. I have lowered my deficit amount to between 500-1000 (at most, usually no higher then 900) and still nothing.

I am in the 3rd week of upping my cals, am I expecting a loss when it hasn't been enough time? Went from 1600 and below to around 2000-2200 now. I weighed this morning (not my normal weigh in day) and I was still the same. I've tried not to let it bother me these last 3 weeks because I know I have to be patient when upping my cals, but this has been going on since before this. I also have PCOS, which I do follow more low carb, try to always get below 100g net, but still nothing. I eat a whole foods diet the majority of the time (by that I mean lots of veggies, meat and dairy, do not each much grains and fruit because of the sugar, will get low carb bread at times) and cook the majority of my meals.

Here is an example, these are my numbers from last week -

Monday - - - 2563 cals burned - 1923 cals eaten = 640 deficit
Tuesday- - - 2479 cals burned - 1850 cals eaten = 629 deficit
Wed - - - - - - - 2801 cals burned - 2067 cals eaten = 734 deficit
Thursday - - - 2600 cals burned - 1623 cals eaten = 977 deficit
Friday - - - - 2723 cals burned - 2154 cals eaten = 569 deficit
Saturday - - 2926 cals burned - 2114 cals eaten = 812 deficit
Sunday - - 2840 cals burned - 2008 cals eaten = 832 deficit

Total Cals burned for week = 18,932
Total Cals eaten for week = 13,739

Total deficit - 5,193 which means I should have lost 1.4/1.5 pounds


My point in this post is what do I do when cals in vs cals out is not working properly!? I do take my inches and I was up 8 inches overall last week, which my wellness coach said could be from water weight, but within these six weeks there has not been really any weight or inch loss of significance. I don't know how to try and break a stall if I am consistently eating at a deficit and it still isn't enough! Has anyone else been stuck and found something that worked for them?

By NO MEANS am I giving up or going to eat myself into oblivion but I can't help but get frustrated by this. I follow the rules, do what I am supposed to and it still doesn't work, I am at a loss and don't know how to get my body moving on the scale again. I had a steady loss for 4 months, lost the 42 pounds shown below and haven't been able to lose a damn pound since.

Is there something else I need to tweak? Any suggestions on how to get things moving again? I don't want to say this 6 weeks has been wasted time, but I feel like it is such a setback and if I just continue doing what I have been, when am I supposed to know if its not enough? How do I break a plateau when I consistently have a deficit and it still isn't good enough? GRRRRRR frustrated beyond belief, please help if you can

For weight loss nothing matters except calorie deficit. You can not out exercise too many calories. I learned this the hard way.

Exercise is for developing my lean body mass only, not for weight loss. This is what worked for me. Separating out the two thinning. I write more about this on my link below.

I don't see your height anywhere. I'm very short and I found that the "eat more" works for taller people but not for short people like me. Here is is my experience. I'm not telling anyone else what to do, this is just what worked for me. Maybe it will give you some ideas for yourself.

Your body loses weight in chunks, not linear. I have found that you can do everything right and your weight loss seems to plateau but if you are patient and keep exercising and eating at a deficit (however slight) you will lose it, it will suddenly "whoosh". There are so many variables for the scale; water retention, digestion, hormones, allergies, sodium, carbs, water intake, DOMS, inflammation, the list goes on. People mistakenly think they lose or gain weight when they eat more or less because of these fluctuations.

Losing weight requires tremendous patience. You will not lose it when you want it or where you want it. The body does its thing. Some apparent plateaus can last a month or so. You can not make it happen faster. You must focus on two things; calories and exercise. Nothing else matters. Scales and metrics don't matter. The day in and day out grind of exercise and calories are all that matters. It is not very exciting until things fall into place. You get your victories and you ride one victory to the next.

The scale is a trend tool. The scale is good but put it away and only check once a week and only use it as a trend tool. It will fluctuate, it does not matter. Take front side and back progress pictures at least once a month. You will see differences that the metrics won't tell you and it's that little bit of NSV that will keep you going until the next victory.

Some people will say you need to eat more. Some people will say you need to eat less. Only you can decide or check with your doctor. But what would make the most sense? Eating more or eating less, to lose weight? Hmmm..

Taller people have more room in their calorie budget to go up or down. Shorter people like me have less room and get frustrated with "eat more" because that typically does not work for us. If you are confused about it don't just listen to any of us, do some research and get approval from your doctor, then just do what you need to do and tune the rest of us out.

It really depends on your RMR. If you are short like I am then your RMR is really just above the 1200 limit so you really don't have much room for a calorie deficit and going up is less likely to work. If you are taller you will have a higher RMR and can go up or down and still be in a deficit so you can lose no matter what. All that matters is a calorie deficit. If you are short it can be hard to have a deficit at 1200 or above so your only option is to check with your doctor. I did and he agreed and had me go down. So I had to tune everyone out around here, as some of us short girls will say, the "eat more" bullies.

Once I got leaner I had to taper UP my calories. The leaner you get the less of a calorie deficit your body can handle. It needs to be a long slow shallow deficit. For me still under a doctor’s care, this is around 1000-1200 calories because I am so short, petite, and am under 12% body fat where I truly can go into starvation mode if I ate under 1000 calories. I have supporting documentation below. Again, you must seek your doctor’s advice. No one here can tell you how many calories to eat, either up or down.

Seek advice from your doctor. Myself or anyone else on here can’t tell you how much to eat, or to go up or down. If you have a lot of body fat reserves you would be surprised at how little you can eat (unless you have emotional eating issues or disorders). The leaner you get the less your body has to draw from and then you have to taper up your calories. There is no such thing as starvation mode for woman over 12% body fat or men over 6% body fat. I pretty much proved that for myself by staying strong and building muscle and doing what I did. I'm the leanest, most muscular, and most fit that I have ever been in my life at almost 52 years old. My doctor looked at my blood work throughout my journey and it remained fine even with “taking breaks from eating” for periods of time and eating less. Even now at less than 12% body fat everything is A-OKAY. I am healthy, active, and vibrant, muscular not skinny. I have never had eating disorders nor do I now. If you have eating disorders you should not be on a diet unless you are under a doctor’s care and/or get those issues resolved first. I do not advocate unhealthy eating or promote eating disorders.

While there is no one size fits all I listed the things that worked for me here --> http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/740340-i-lost-60-lbs-at-age-51-anyone-can-any-workout

I found the following quotes helpful for sorting through all the myths plastered all over the place

What is the exact number of calories for you?

We’ve been trying to figure out an exact NUMBER of calories that everyone should be eating, without recognizing that everyone is slightly different. In truth, the calories aren’t the end game. Your body is. So the EXACT amount of Calories that are right for you is the EXACT amount that will allow you to maintain your ideal bodyweight no matter what some calculator or chart says.

In other words, an online calculator might tell you that you need to eat 2,500 calories
per day to maintain your ideal bodyweight. But the only way to know for sure if this is
the right amount for you is to test it out. If you gain weight or can’t lose weight eating
that much, then you know you need to eat less to lose weight no matter how many
calculators and text books say otherwise.

This doesn’t mean your metabolism is broken, it just means the estimate of your needs
was just a bit off.

-John Barban (The Body Centric Calorie Guide from the Venus Index and Adonis Index Manuals)

The Theory of Fat Availability:
•There is a set amount of fat that can be released from a fat cell.
•The more fat you have, the more fat can be used as a fuel when dieting.
•The less fat you have, the less fat can be used as a fuel when dieting.
•Towards the end of a transformation, when body fat is extremely low you
may not have enough fat to handle a large caloric deficit anymore.

At the extreme low end, when your body fat cannot ‘keep up’ with the energy deficit
you've imposed on your body, the energy MUST come from SOMEWHERE. This is
when you are at risk of losing lean body mass during dieting (commonly referred to
as ‘starvation mode’). This happens at extremely low levels of body fat, under 6% in
men and 12% in women [Friedl K.E. J Appl Phsiol, 1994].

-Brad Pilon and John Barban (from The Reverse Taper Diet in The Adonis Index and Venus Index manuals)

Ever since I finally lost the 60lbs and went from Obese to super fit I've realized that tiny people like me simply need less calories than most other people. Even now as healthy and vibrant as I am, with 100's of people stalking my diary, I get questioned almost daily about my calories seeming to low. Why do people ask when they don't even know my height or RMR? Since I'm so small my RMR is only 1380 and that is based on my recent DXA scan which isn't nearly as accurate as going to a lab and blowing into the tube several times to fine out a more accurate number, but it is certainly more accurate than an online chart. I will never be able to eat the 2000 calorie diet everyone thinks is necessary, I'm just too small for it.

Never again will I let anyone tell me what to eat, when to eat, or how much to eat. I learned what works for me. I OWN IT. No one will ever pressure me to eat birthday cake at a party or anywhere else, I DECIDE. No one else decides for me. I eat when I want to eat and I don't eat when I don't want to eat.

My life has changed dramatically since my success. http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/752246-i-m-afraid-to-try-an-new-weight-lifting-program-now

Acg67

Calories in/Calories out do not work. It's the quality of the food you eat and the quality of the exercise that matters.

Yes I agree, there is tons of evidence that you can lose weight while eating in a caloric surplus of "good" foods. And that "good" exercises like kipping are awesome for fat burning while things like running are not

kiachu

Well how much faith do you have in your monitor and is it calibrated correctly for your new weight? Not sure what the quality and quantity of your exercises are.I know I conservatively bulk on 2300 calories and that is with cardio and pulling some heavy A** weight 5 days a week. Not sure what your weight and height are currently but 1900 - 2154 calories seems like a lot.

mearlie

I know one thing I can easily do is accidentally forget to log in things I add to a recipe. If you forget to add the olive oil, for instance, that can add up pretty quickly. I feel for you and I'm dreading it if I get stalled like this! BUT are you clothes fitting any better? If so, who cares what the scale says, you are getting leaner!

minizebu

I've had the problem for the last 5 years. Sometimes calories in/calories out doesn't make a difference if you have an underlying medical problem. I lost over 100 pounds and then plateaued for 5 YEARS! I stopped losing and eventually started gaining, WHILE EATING AT A DEFICIT. It seemed my body was doing the impossible. I was gaining weight while burning more than I was taking in. It took 5 years of frustration before I was diagnosed with Hashimotos. It is an autoimmune disease and it causes weight gain. I don't know how it allows your body to gain weight...fat actually...on a deficit of calories but it bloody well does and there are probably 100 other people on her with Hashimoto's that will tell you the same thing. I suggest getting your thyroid antibodies checked, as well as a saliva test for your hormone levels.

Hashimoto's didn't "allow your body to gain weight...on a deficit of calories". It CHANGED your metabolism. With an autoimmune thyroid disorder you have to understand that typical BMR/TDEE calculators may not work, because these formulas were devised using a healthy population. Autoimmune thyroid disorders can either REV UP or SLOOOW DOWN your metabolism.

MusicalMe

For what it's worth, I used to wear my BMF 24/7. It worked for a while, but eventually I hit a point where nothing was working. I increased my exercise, thus increasing my burn, increasing my deficit. Long story short, I stopped wearing it and have been focusing just on counting my calories and I'm losing! Maybe give it a break for a little while and see what happens?

Lozze

I don't understand that at all. If you didn't have a scale, and didn't know how much you weighed, wouldn't you be thrilled at looking smaller? I know find it a lot more satisfying to have to buy new clothes because my old ones are falling down than I am with changes on the scale.

Because it got to a point where it stopped even with losing inches. It's incredibly frustrating to not be losing weight and not be losing inches.

When you are still obese the best thing is to lose body weight. Weight lifting, while retaining lean body mass slows the down. I have yet to see one person say they've gone from obese to fit with weight lifting.

Kelene616

I've read a few people mention this already and I agree. Try carb- cycling. The best book I've read about this is called Choose to by Chris Powell. The recipes are ok, but he explains it in a way that is so easy to understand. Maybe check that out?

WendyTerry420

I have yet to see one person say they've gone from obese to fit with weight lifting.

Challenge accepted! :laugh:

laurwillbelovely

thank you for this post. It makes sense to me that's for sure!!

reneecrank

I have the same EXACT problem, accept that I am actually gaining! Body Media Link Arm Band says I need 1000 calorie deficit to loose two lbs a week and I am gaining. Where are all the professionals? Shouldn't these websites have actual dietitians available to answer questions?? I am so confused........