Yet Another "I'm Stuck" Thread New and Improved with data!

iAMsmiling

I've been around for almost 2 months now.
Since January, I've been doing mixed cardio/weights, with emphasis on cardio, about 5 days a week.
According to my HRM, that's 178 workouts for 193 hours of exercise and 166,500 calories burned.
I started here out of frustration at my lack of weight loss. Seemed obvious I must have been eating up at least all of my exercise and I wanted to track my food intake and fix that.
So here I am, 60 days later, still unable to break below the 220 lb barrier.
I've even had a couple of excursions back up to 225, but I think I've determined that is water weight gain due to some weekend salty (yummy) eating.

Even more data:
I've been tracking my consumption, exercise and net calories for the last 4 weeks, and calculating a 2 week moving average all along. Here's what I find:
For the last 4 weeks I have averaged less than 2200 calories consumed per day.
I have averaged about 750 calories a day burned (non work out days included in the averages)
My average daily net is less than 1450 calories.

My thoughts...

1) If numbers were all there were, you would all be bowing before my magnificence.
2) I've got to be under counting calories, over counting exercise or a combination of both.
3) I don't feel like I can eat a whole lot less than I am eating right now. Maybe I could trim another 200/day.
4) I don't feel like I can add a lot of exercise. Maybe I could add another 200 calories...maybe.
5) I'm working entirely too dang hard to be "maintaining."
6) I know I've added muscle and my measurements are likely improved, but not nearly enough to account for all of this effort=lack of scale results.

That seems pretty exhaustive. Can any of the fitness brainiacs around here tell me where I'm going wrong or what I need to try to get the heck off of this spot and move in the right direction?

My diary is open, and so am I.


If you've taken the time to read this far, congratulations on your patience and willingness to help.

Thanks,

Jenada79

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/654536-in-place-of-a-road-map-2-0-revised-7-2-12

read this link it makes the most sense to me.

heatherloveslifting

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/654536-in-place-of-a-road-map-2-0-revised-7-2-12

read this link it makes the most sense to me.

I agree. You are netting about the same as I do and I am about 80 lbs smaller! I think eating more would be good.

kellicci

I'm no fitness brainiac but 1450 net calories for a guy who weighs 220 seems low.

You have HRM so your calculated burn should be about right. How do you track food do you eyeball portions, use measuring cups or a scale?

Edit: Looked at your diary it looks like most days you struggle to get all your protein in. Have you thought about protein shakes?

vim_n_vigor

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/654536-in-place-of-a-road-map-2-0-revised-7-2-12

read this link it makes the most sense to me.

I agree. You are netting about the same as I do and I am about 80 lbs smaller! I think eating more would be good.

Go here.
I am 36, female, 220 lbs, 5'4'' and I eat 1800-2000 a day. You should be eating more.

kellicci

So just to clarify if you check his diary he is eating more like 2000+ he's just exercsiing a lot and netting 1450.

californiagirl2012

I've been around for almost 2 months now.
Since January, I've been doing mixed cardio/weights, with emphasis on cardio, about 5 days a week.
According to my HRM, that's 178 workouts for 193 hours of exercise and 166,500 calories burned.
I started here out of frustration at my lack of weight loss. Seemed obvious I must have been eating up at least all of my exercise and I wanted to track my food intake and fix that.
So here I am, 60 days later, still unable to break below the 220 lb barrier.
I've even had a couple of excursions back up to 225, but I think I've determined that is water weight gain due to some weekend salty (yummy) eating.

Even more data:
I've been tracking my consumption, exercise and net calories for the last 4 weeks, and calculating a 2 week moving average all along. Here's what I find:
For the last 4 weeks I have averaged less than 2200 calories consumed per day.
I have averaged about 750 calories a day burned (non work out days included in the averages)
My average daily net is less than 1450 calories.

My thoughts...

1) If numbers were all there were, you would all be bowing before my magnificence.
2) I've got to be under counting calories, over counting exercise or a combination of both.
3) I don't feel like I can eat a whole lot less than I am eating right now. Maybe I could trim another 200/day.
4) I don't feel like I can add a lot of exercise. Maybe I could add another 200 calories...maybe.
5) I'm working entirely too dang hard to be "maintaining."
6) I know I've added muscle and my measurements are likely improved, but not nearly enough to account for all of this effort=lack of scale results.

That seems pretty exhaustive. Can any of the fitness brainiacs around here tell me where I'm going wrong or what I need to try to get the heck off of this spot and move in the right direction?

My diary is open, and so am I.


If you've taken the time to read this far, congratulations on your patience and willingness to help.

Thanks,

This sounds so much like me for 15 years. You can't over exercise too many calories. The exercise burn is highly over rated, of course you burn calories. I didn't think I ate too much and I lifted and ran marathon after marathon and the weight just would not come off. I was super strong and fit with a thick layer of fat and it got worse each decade. I finally got it off at age 50 --> http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/740340-i-lost-60-lbs-at-age-51-anyone-can-any-workout

And I have some pretty exciting things happening in my life now due to my success --> http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/752246-i-m-afraid-to-try-an-new-weight-lifting-program-now

Anyway, even now in maintenance I don't count exercise calories. I just listen to my body and if I worked extra hard and need a few more calories in the evening I eat a bit more, whatever makes me feel good and sleep good. But I'm walking the fine line now at under 12% body fat. And I fee great and I'm strong and fit, not skinny.

I found the following quote helped me:

What is the exact number of calories for you?

We’ve been trying to figure out an exact NUMBER of calories that everyone should be eating, without recognizing that everyone is slightly different. In truth, the calories aren’t the end game. Your body is. So the EXACT amount of Calories that are right for you is the EXACT amount that will allow you to maintain your ideal bodyweight no matter what some calculator or chart says.

In other words, an online calculator might tell you that you need to eat 2,500 calories
per day to maintain your ideal bodyweight. But the only way to know for sure if this is
the right amount for you is to test it out. If you gain weight or can’t lose weight eating
that much, then you know you need to eat less to lose weight no matter how many
calculators and text books say otherwise.

This doesn’t mean your metabolism is broken, it just means the estimate of your needs
was just a bit off.

-John Barban (The Body Centric Calorie Guide from the Venus Index and Adonis Index Manuals)

Greenrun99

So I took a look at your diary and also at what you mentioned and here are just some of my thoughts..

First and probably one of the biggest ones, time to start netting above your BMR.. I know its alot of food but I think that is really not helping.. I was stuck for along time til I started eating those exercise calories. (guy, weight less than you, net more than you)
Next I would probably start tracking your sodium as well.. Everyone says it doesn't matter but hey might as well track it and try to stay around 2500.
Last and the one we all have a problem with, try to start eating a bit better and maybe some more homemade items.. I see you went out for sushi a few times, lot of packaged foods, store bought soups.. not saying all those are bad but they could add up since some of the ingredients aren't 100%.. Try to limit them and make more of your meals I guess.

Mostly though, you should get that net calories up, macro's all look good.

iAMsmiling

First of all, I certainly am a "special snowflake."

I should clarify that I stopped tracking my exercise on MFP some time ago. What you see here is strictly calories in.
I track my exercise on a separate spreadsheet just to catch all the numbers and educate myself.

I am actually eating around 2200 calories a day. Are those recommending it saying I need to eat more than 2200 calories??

myfitnessval

i already kind of posted on your page but you simply need to net more cals. yes you could eat cleaner but you've seen my diary and i'm not a clean eater by any means lately and i've managed to consistently lose by making sure i net my BMR.

iAMsmiling

I'm no fitness brainiac but 1450 net calories for a guy who weighs 220 seems low.

You have HRM so your calculated burn should be about right. How do you track food do you eyeball portions, use measuring cups or a scale?

Edit: Looked at your diary it looks like most days you struggle to get all your protein in. Have you thought about protein shakes?

I eat a lot of packaged foods, so the MFP app makes tracking those pretty easy. When I cook, I try to keep the ingredients simple so calculating calories is easier.

I think I hit my protein at least half the time and when I miss, it's USUALLY not by too much. The last couple of weekends I was up on carbs, so my proteins suffered.
No problem using protein drinks. I drink several a week at 32 grams each.

morah29

you are drinking and eating all those protein bars and drinks.. maybe eat some veggies or fruit instead..... also... it says you worked out for 73 mins and only burned 1 cal...... just glanced but those are some things I noticed..... also you are not tracking water.. you getting enough water?

GauchoMark

My thoughts:

1) Why are you working so hard? Averaging 750 calories per day, 5 days a week and netting 1450 calories is not a real sustainable way to live. Seems like you are trying to rush things. As you can see, it gets really frustrating and you are more likely to quit. Slow down, eat a little more, and realize that weight loss takes time.

2) Do you have daily weight data for maybe the last month or two? If so, go here and do steps 4-6 and see if the trend is downward. http://scoobysworkshop.com/calorie-calculator-calibration/ A 2 week moving average is not very useful. A scatterplot with a linear trendline shows your progress - negative slope = weight loss. You need really good data to do this though.

The scatterplot is invaluable. I don't do it exactly like the link shows, but he already has it explained and a spreadsheet for download. I have had times when I was sure I was plateauing and ran the plot and saw that I actually lost weight. I'd say a VERY large number of plateaus reported on this site are not plateaus at all.

natalie412

Unless your calorie counting is way underestimated, you probably do need to eat more. Try a higher protein ratio. I am a 42 year old, 5' 5.5" inch woman, and currently weigh 128, and net at least 1600 every day. I eat back all my exercise calories, which means I am eating 1800 to 2200 (over 2500 on very long run days) everyday, and I have actually lost 7 pounds in the last 4 months without even trying. I am supposed to be maintaining. My calorie counting is pretty accurate - I weigh and measure still. When I was actively trying to lose I was netting around 1400. So, yeah, you are much heavier than me, plus you are a man, so you have a lot more muscle mass - you definitely need more food in my opinion.

iAMsmiling

This sounds so much like me for 15 years. You can't over exercise too many calories. The exercise burn is highly over rated, of course you burn calories. I didn't think I ate too much and I lifted and ran marathon after marathon and the weight just would not come off. I was super strong and fit with a thick layer of fat and it got worse each decade. I finally got it off at age 50 --> http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/740340-i-lost-60-lbs-at-age-51-anyone-can-any-workout

And I have some pretty exciting things happening in my life now due to my success --> http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/752246-i-m-afraid-to-try-an-new-weight-lifting-program-now

Anyway, even now in maintenance I don't count exercise calories. I just listen to my body and if I worked extra hard and need a few more calories in the evening I eat a bit more, whatever makes me feel good and sleep good. But I'm walking the fine line now at under 12% body fat. And I fee great and I'm strong and fit, not skinny.

I found the following quote helped me:

What is the exact number of calories for you?

We’ve been trying to figure out an exact NUMBER of calories that everyone should be eating, without recognizing that everyone is slightly different. In truth, the calories aren’t the end game. Your body is. So the EXACT amount of Calories that are right for you is the EXACT amount that will allow you to maintain your ideal bodyweight no matter what some calculator or chart says.

In other words, an online calculator might tell you that you need to eat 2,500 calories
per day to maintain your ideal bodyweight. But the only way to know for sure if this is
the right amount for you is to test it out. If you gain weight or can’t lose weight eating
that much, then you know you need to eat less to lose weight no matter how many
calculators and text books say otherwise.

This doesn’t mean your metabolism is broken, it just means the estimate of your needs
was just a bit off.

-John Barban (The Body Centric Calorie Guide from the Venus Index and Adonis Index Manuals)

You've described how I feel about me exactly. I'm strong. I've got excellent endurance. My resting heart rate is below 60 and my blood pressure is low (w/o meds). I can work most of the young dudes at my gym in to the ground.
I feel like a horse...with a 2 inch layer of fat all over!

Your quote tells me to lower calories, but you seem to be saying that your experience is that you can't exercise weight off (lower net calories).
I'm confused.

daviddarragh

I'm kind of in the same boat. Stuck at 223.5 (yes, I'm counting half pounds because even a little success is success). One thing I can say is that it is easy to over-count calories burned. I use an elliptical and input all of my particulars to get as accurate a reading as possible. I do not count calories burned during strength training; I chalk this up to lagniappe (or gravy if you need a food reference). I spoke to a nutritionist recently and he actually said to increase calorie in-take for one week and then go back to your target level. I suppose the thinking is that your body is not giving anything away because it has been conditioned to think no more food may come its way. Just a thought.

natalie412

BTW - fat2fitradio.com's BMR calculator says you should be eating around 2200 per day - and that is at sedentary without exercise. I put put you in as 6' since I have no idea how tall you are, but it shouldn't change it alot.

kellicci

I'm no fitness brainiac but 1450 net calories for a guy who weighs 220 seems low.

You have HRM so your calculated burn should be about right. How do you track food do you eyeball portions, use measuring cups or a scale?

Edit: Looked at your diary it looks like most days you struggle to get all your protein in. Have you thought about protein shakes?

I eat a lot of packaged foods, so the MFP app makes tracking those pretty easy. When I cook, I try to keep the ingredients simple so calculating calories is easier.

I think I hit my protein at least half the time and when I miss, it's USUALLY not by too much. The last couple of weekends I was up on carbs, so my proteins suffered.
No problem using protein drinks. I drink several a week at 32 grams each.

Oh, okay so I just didn't find a day with a protein shake and I did see a couple days where you were much closer than others to your protien goals. I do agree that cutting back on prepackaged and tracking sodium might help a little. I helped me.

Okay so I did a quick BMR check guessing you were 6' and your BMR is 1891! Many days a week you eat 2200 total then exercise away 750 leaving you at 1450. That means you are actually getting less in your body on those days than what it needs to survive.

If you have no interst in lowering your cardio or alories burned then yes I suggest you eat even more. I say make your goal on MFP 1890 or heck evena nive round 1900 NET! which measn if you exercise 750 calories away that day you'll eat 2650. maybe a little under not eating bacl all your exercise calories...but a lot more tahn you eat now.

iAMsmiling

My thoughts:

1) Why are you working so hard? Averaging 750 calories per day, 5 days a week and netting 1450 calories is not a real sustainable way to live. Seems like you are trying to rush things. As you can see, it gets really frustrating and you are more likely to quit. Slow down, eat a little more, and realize that weight loss takes time.

2) Do you have daily weight data for maybe the last month or two? If so, go here and do steps 4-6 and see if the trend is downward. http://scoobysworkshop.com/calorie-calculator-calibration/ A 2 week moving average is not very useful. A scatterplot with a linear trendline shows your progress - negative slope = weight loss. You need really good data to do this though.

The scatterplot is invaluable. I don't do it exactly like the link shows, but he already has it explained and a spreadsheet for download. I have had times when I was sure I was plateauing and ran the plot and saw that I actually lost weight. I'd say a VERY large number of plateaus reported on this site are not plateaus at all.

Since January, I've been getting up at about 3:00 AM and hitting the gym 5 days a week. I've had off a week or 2 here and there for vacations. Overall, it's a pace I seem to be able to sustain, as long as I mix up my routines and don't wear any particular part out.
Frankly, I like it. It's my only time away from my family (special needs kid) and I need the break. Great stress reliever.

Unfortunately, I only started collecting daily weight data fairly recently. I do know that 30 days ago, I weight what I weigh today.

iAMsmiling

I'm kind of in the same boat. Stuck at 223.5 (yes, I'm counting half pounds because even a little success is success). One thing I can say is that it is easy to over-count calories burned. I use an elliptical and input all of my particulars to get as accurate a reading as possible. I do not count calories burned during strength training; I chalk this up to lagniappe (or gravy if you need a food reference). I spoke to a nutritionist recently and he actually said to increase calorie in-take for one week and then go back to your target level. I suppose the thinking is that your body is not giving anything away because it has been conditioned to think no more food may come its way. Just a thought.

I grew up in Louisiana, so I understand lagniappe very well. Nice to read that term again.

firstsip

Just to pipe up since I saw you say, "So you're saying I should eat more than 2200 calories?" If you're netting low, the OTHER option is to exercise less. I know, it sucks (I was burning over 1000 calories a day over the summer from aerobics, lifting, AND swimming), but your body's not getting a chance to repair, and ultimately not netting enough to sustain the muscle you're wanting to replace fat.

I guess I'd also ask, since I don't recall seeing your height, what your body fat % is since you have a smaller weight loss goal.

deksgrl

Find out what your BMR is (basal metabolic rate, the amount of calories they would feed you in a coma).

Find out what your TDEE is (total daily energy expenditure.... that is BMR plus the amount you need to fuel all of your daily activities and exercise).

Eat between those two numbers.

iAMsmiling

BTW - fat2fitradio.com's BMR calculator says you should be eating around 2200 per day - and that is at sedentary without exercise. I put put you in as 6' since I have no idea how tall you are, but it shouldn't change it alot.

Okay so I did a quick BMR check guessing you were 6' and your BMR is 1891! Many days a week you eat 2200 total then exercise away 750 leaving you at 1450. That means you are actually getting less in your body on those days than what it needs to survive.

i already kind of posted on your page but you simply need to net more cals. yes you could eat cleaner but you've seen my diary and i'm not a clean eater by any means lately and i've managed to consistently lose by making sure i net my BMR.

I'm 5'10
I don't know my BF%, but I'm guessing around 28%.

I used a bunch of different BMI calculators and came up with about 2200 as my sedentary BMR. So, I decided to eat my BMR and not eat my exercise. That's how I came up with what I am currently doing.

The idea of eating more scares the crap out of me. Pounds are so damn hard to get off, the idea of risking putting more on is tough.
On the other hand, I've been failing doing things this way for some time...so, maybe I need to try it.
Maybe just another couple of hundred calories at first?

harlychic

Just a thought from my own experience....Double check your settings on your Heart rate monitor. I changed the battery and it defaulted to factory setting of a 600 lb person 10 years younger than me and I dont know what the height defaulted to . By the way the by I am 5'3" @150. My calorie burns were way off.

3laine75

3 out of your 5 days try to concentrate on the weights side of things - don't cut your cardio drastically just try to do at least 30 - 60 mins weights. I've been in the same boat as you for months now - my problem (i think) is that i stick to weights as i hate cardio - but i've started running this week so hopefully that will make a difference.

you could try being really anal and weighing absolutely everything for a week just to make sure you aren't underestimating.

deksgrl

BMR is enough to fuel your organs, breathing, brain function, just laying in a bed not moving. Doesn't it make sense that you need more than that when you get out of bed, move around, think, work, exercise?

Goal_Line

Given your exercise calculations are off site, I can't say for sure, but i wouldn't be at all surprised that your estimates of cals burned is high.

iAMsmiling

3 out of your 5 days try to concentrate on the weights side of things - don't cut your cardio drastically just try to do at least 30 - 60 mins weights. I've been in the same boat as you for months now - my problem (i think) is that i stick to weights as i hate cardio - but i've started running this week so hopefully that will make a difference.

you could try being really anal and weighing absolutely everything for a week just to make sure you aren't underestimating.

I wish I could. I've always preferred weights to cardio. Unfortunately, I've got bursitis in my shoulders. I can do light (20+ reps) but if I try to up the weights till I'm down to fewer than 10 reps, I get knocked out for weeks.

GauchoMark

Since January, I've been getting up at about 3:00 AM and hitting the gym 5 days a week. I've had off a week or 2 here and there for vacations. Overall, it's a pace I seem to be able to sustain, as long as I mix up my routines and don't wear any particular part out.
Frankly, I like it. It's my only time away from my family (special needs kid) and I need the break. Great stress reliever.

If you're happy with that pace, then so be it. Your original post implied that you were pretty much at your max for exercise, which is where that came from.

However, I kind of look at exercise this way - exercise doesn't make you lose weight. More exercise doesn't make you lose more weight. A PROPER calorie deficit makes you lose weight. The reason you want to exercise while you lose weight is to maintain your lean body mass. Keeping your lean body mass high helps you burn more calories and you look better. You need to be eating back your exercise calories to be sure that you are not losing LBM. If your calorie deficit is too high, then even though you are grossing more than your bmr, you are still likely to be losing quite a bit of LBM, which makes weight loss more difficult. Pick a moderate calorie deficit (I use 500) and stick to it no matter how much you exercise - you'll be much happier and your weight will start coming off.

Unfortunately, I only started collecting daily weight data fairly recently. I do know that 30 days ago, I weight what I weigh today.

Well, that's kind of my point. What data were you doing a 2 week moving average on? Here is a personal example of mine (real data):

Date Weight %BF LBM
9/3/2012 194.3 17.80% 164.9405772
9/4/2012 193.3 18.10% 163.6748518
9/5/2012 194.2 17.80% 164.8556876
9/6/2012 194.5 17.60% 165.3911565
9/7/2012 193.0 17.50% 164.2553191
9/8/2012 194.4 17.50% 165.4468085
9/9/2012 193.5 17.40% 164.8211244
9/10/2012 195.0 17.20% 166.3822526
9/11/2012 195.4 17.00% 167.008547
9/12/2012 193.2 17.10% 164.9871904
9/13/2012 194.5 16.70% 166.6666667
9/13/2012 194.9 17.10% 166.4389411
9/14/2012 194.3 17.10% 165.9265585
9/16/2012 193.1 17.10% 164.9017933
9/17/2012 194.9 16.80% 166.8664384
9/17/2012 194.9 16.80% 166.8664384
9/17/2012 194.9 16.80% 166.8664384
9/17/2012 194.9 16.80% 166.8664384
9/18/2012 194.2 16.60% 166.5523156
9/19/2012 195.1 16.70% 167.1808055
9/20/2012 194.7 16.10% 167.7002584
9/24/2012 193.5 16.00% 166.8103448
9/25/2012 192.6 16.30% 165.6061909
9/26/2012 193.0 15.90% 166.5228645
9/27/2012 193.4 16.10% 166.580534
9/28/2012 192.7 16.50% 165.4077253
9/29/2012 196.0 15.40% 169.8440208
10/1/2012 194.2 15.20% 168.5763889

Notice that my starting and ending weights are 0.1 lbs apart. If I do trendlines for the weight and lbm, I can calculate my starting and ending weights and not have to deal with the daily fluctuation. I get:

Date Weight LBM
9/3/2012 194.3 164.8
10/1/2012 194.0 167.9

So, a weight loss of 0.3 lbs in the month, but I gained 3.1 lbs LBM, so I lost 3.4 lbs of fat.

Obviously, all this is based on my bathroom scale, so take it or leave it, but its better than nothing. But, if I didn't collect the data and do the linear regression, I could think I was plateau'd right now...

phynyxfyre

Can't get your body fat % without waist measurement (at navel). I can tell you that if you were only moderately active, you would be burning 3066 calories a day. (exercising 3-5 days a week). Your base rate for organ function is 1978. So you have to eat at least that to survive. If you want to lose weight, you can knock 10% off your total daily energy expenditure (3066-306=2760 calories) and you should see some results there.

Related note: On your food diary, I looked solely at sodium intake. The highest recommended intake per day is 2500. There are a lot of days (not all, but quite a few in the last two weeks) where you are up around 3200. That will cause water retention. That can account for around seven pounds of weight.

I notice you eat a kashi bar and a greek yogurt and m&ms quite a few days during the week. I love Greek yogurt. It is awesome. I also love chocolate, but I really have to limit myself because it makes me so thirsty. So do kashi bars. Sodium... Drat. Maybe substitute another snack? More veggies? More whole grains?

Love the banana and proteins in the morning (like egg whites and lean meats). I need to take that page from your diary and try to copy it. I am horrible about not eating breakfast... Sigh. Oh, I am assuming your water intake is up there and just not recorded. I am short and drinking about a gallon a day.. your body regulates water intake based on the previous 24 hours, so if you aren't getting enough, you will get payback the entire next day for it...

Hope I am being helpful.

iAMsmiling

Just a thought from my own experience....Double check your settings on your Heart rate monitor. I changed the battery and it defaulted to factory setting of a 600 lb person 10 years younger than me and I dont know what the height defaulted to . By the way the by I am 5'3" @150. My calorie burns were way off.

Given your exercise calculations are off site, I can't say for sure, but i wouldn't be at all surprised that your estimates of cals burned is high.

Today's workout per my HRM and the Digifit app on my iPhone.

Mix of Stairmaster, treadmill and strider machines with stretching, abs and lower back work thrown in.

96 minutes
1,247 calories
Max HR 159 BPM
Avg HR 130 BPM
13 calories per minute avg burn