More muscle at caloric maintenance?

ukulele2010

Hmm - this really does not seem skinny to me - my BMI is 23 and certainly not stick-like as someone said... And it does not seem particularly skinny-fat to me either. I clearly don't have a belly but I do have love handles. I do think I could add some muscle. Here are the gratuitous shots. And, anyone? Does 12% to 15% bodyfat seem about right? So, the recommendations are bulk at this point for some time than cut later? We're talking basically about adding 10 lbs at .5 lbs per week caloric surplus before cutting ?

SideSteel

Start bulking. TDEE + 15% to start, IMO.

1g/lb LBM in protein MINIMUM
.35g/lb bw in fat minimum
remainder in carbs to hit TDEE+15%

Lift heavy.

DopeItUp

You look good - 12-15% is dead on I would say. Definitely pretty skinny. I would definitely look to add on some muscle at this point and you will look great. SideSteel's macros suggestion is dead on.

mmapags

Start bulking. TDEE + 15% to start, IMO.

1g/lb LBM in protein MINIMUM
.35g/lb bw in fat minimum
remainder in carbs to hit TDEE+15%

Lift heavy.

This. And get BMI out of your head. It's a pretty useless measurement that is about 100 years old. If you have a good BMI it says to me that you are probably underweight, thus the recommedations you are seeing.

love4fitnesslove4food_wechange

Start bulking. TDEE + 15% to start, IMO.

1g/lb LBM in protein MINIMUM
.35g/lb bw in fat minimum
remainder in carbs to hit TDEE+15%

Lift heavy.

This. And get BMI out of your head. It's a pretty useless measurement that is about 100 years old. If you have a good BMI it says to me that you are probably underweight, thus the recommedations you are seeing.

ditto. any man of mine needs to be close to overweight or OVERWEIGHT. haha. not enough muscle if he's "healthy."

ukulele2010

Well, I can say this, at 182 lbs I was no sight for sore eyes - I was fat - er, overweight according to the height/weight charts not obese - and certainly my bodyfat was higher probably closer to the 20% level (again based on visualization). No doubt when I lost the fat I lost a good amount of muscle also - but I probably lost a good deal more fat. So I definitely look healthier at this weight. And given the prescription to diet down to 10% bodyfat I thought that was a reasonable goal to loose weight before bulking. But, then again, I think that at my body weight at 10% bodyfat was going to be about 155 lbs or less and this was something my wife did not like in the past (again, half-ironman training took a lot off - I really struggled to maintain 155 lbs during the half-ironmen training - I ate an enormous amount of ice cream). I stopped losing weight this time at 165 lbs and started strength training - but maintaining caloric balance.

Yeah, so as some have remarked 2100 calories might seem a bit low - I'm not sure (considering what my lean mass is, this is the target from MFP). I also probably underestimate some of my caloric intake but since I do this consistently I am meeting my targets.

But I think some of the women here have different ideals for men. Love4fitnessl and kiachu might like men who are HUGE and I may be skinny in comparison.

love4fitnesslove4food_wechange

Well, I can say this, at 182 lbs I was no sight for sore eyes - I was fat - er, overweight according to the height/weight charts not obese - and certainly my bodyfat was higher probably closer to the 20% level (again based on visualization). No doubt when I lost the fat I lost a good amount of muscle also - but I probably lost a good deal more fat. So I definitely look healthier at this weight. And given the prescription to diet down to 10% bodyfat I thought that was a reasonable goal to loose weight before bulking. But, then again, I think that at my body weight at 10% bodyfat was going to be about 155 lbs or less and this was something my wife did not like in the past (again, half-ironman training took a lot off - I really struggled to maintain 155 lbs during the half-ironmen training - I ate an enormous amount of ice cream). I stopped losing weight this time at 165 lbs and started strength training - but maintaining caloric balance.

Yeah, so as some have remarked 2100 calories might seem a bit low - I'm not sure (considering what my lean mass is, this is the target from MFP). I also probably underestimate some of my caloric intake but since I do this consistently I am meeting my targets.

But I think some of the women here have different ideals for men. Love4fitnessl and kiachu might like men who are HUGE and I may be skinny in comparison.

not at all actually. you're just rather thin.

love4fitnesslove4food_wechange

Well, I can say this, at 182 lbs I was no sight for sore eyes - I was fat - er, overweight according to the height/weight charts not obese - and certainly my bodyfat was higher probably closer to the 20% level (again based on visualization). No doubt when I lost the fat I lost a good amount of muscle also - but I probably lost a good deal more fat. So I definitely look healthier at this weight. And given the prescription to diet down to 10% bodyfat I thought that was a reasonable goal to loose weight before bulking. But, then again, I think that at my body weight at 10% bodyfat was going to be about 155 lbs or less and this was something my wife did not like in the past (again, half-ironman training took a lot off - I really struggled to maintain 155 lbs during the half-ironmen training - I ate an enormous amount of ice cream). I stopped losing weight this time at 165 lbs and started strength training - but maintaining caloric balance.

Yeah, so as some have remarked 2100 calories might seem a bit low - I'm not sure (considering what my lean mass is, this is the target from MFP). I also probably underestimate some of my caloric intake but since I do this consistently I am meeting my targets.

But I think some of the women here have different ideals for men. Love4fitnessl and kiachu might like men who are HUGE and I may be skinny in comparison.

also..EVERYONE is saying you need to gain NOT just me and kiachu. Also, like you said...your wife didn't like it when you were thinner either. You are too thin, period. Bulk, cut and reassess. Also 2100 calories is ridiculous--you're maintaining on that? Seriously? I'm like less than 2/3 your size and eat that. Not cool.

mmapags

Well, I can say this, at 182 lbs I was no sight for sore eyes - I was fat - er, overweight according to the height/weight charts not obese - and certainly my bodyfat was higher probably closer to the 20% level (again based on visualization). No doubt when I lost the fat I lost a good amount of muscle also - but I probably lost a good deal more fat. So I definitely look healthier at this weight. And given the prescription to diet down to 10% bodyfat I thought that was a reasonable goal to loose weight before bulking. But, then again, I think that at my body weight at 10% bodyfat was going to be about 155 lbs or less and this was something my wife did not like in the past (again, half-ironman training took a lot off - I really struggled to maintain 155 lbs during the half-ironmen training - I ate an enormous amount of ice cream). I stopped losing weight this time at 165 lbs and started strength training - but maintaining caloric balance.

Yeah, so as some have remarked 2100 calories might seem a bit low - I'm not sure (considering what my lean mass is, this is the target from MFP). I also probably underestimate some of my caloric intake but since I do this consistently I am meeting my targets.

But I think some of the women here have different ideals for men. Love4fitnessl and kiachu might like men who are HUGE and I may be skinny in comparison.

not at all actually. you're just rather thin.

What she said!! Your eyes see a very thin body as being ideal and you are backing into that with the rationalization. Most who have responded here are looking it from an optimum objective standard. The concensus is that you are very thin and that you could use more mass. That doesn't mean that others like people who are HUGE. You could stand a little lean muscle meat on those bones. Accept that and take action or decide you like how you are.

kiachu

Well, I can say this, at 182 lbs I was no sight for sore eyes - I was fat - er, overweight according to the height/weight charts not obese - and certainly my bodyfat was higher probably closer to the 20% level (again based on visualization). No doubt when I lost the fat I lost a good amount of muscle also - but I probably lost a good deal more fat. So I definitely look healthier at this weight. And given the prescription to diet down to 10% bodyfat I thought that was a reasonable goal to loose weight before bulking. But, then again, I think that at my body weight at 10% bodyfat was going to be about 155 lbs or less and this was something my wife did not like in the past (again, half-ironman training took a lot off - I really struggled to maintain 155 lbs during the half-ironmen training - I ate an enormous amount of ice cream). I stopped losing weight this time at 165 lbs and started strength training - but maintaining caloric balance.

Yeah, so as some have remarked 2100 calories might seem a bit low - I'm not sure (considering what my lean mass is, this is the target from MFP). I also probably underestimate some of my caloric intake but since I do this consistently I am meeting my targets.

But I think some of the women here have different ideals for men. Love4fitnessl and kiachu might like men who are HUGE and I may be skinny in comparison.

also..EVERYONE is saying you need to gain NOT just me and kiachu. Also, like you said...your wife didn't like it when you were thinner either. You are too thin, period. Bulk, cut and reassess. Also 2100 calories is ridiculous--you're maintaining on that? Seriously? I'm like less than 2/3 your size and eat that. Not cool.

*L* My maintenance is 2100. And I'm a 5'4 130lb female haha.

ukulele2010

*L* My maintenance is 2100. And I'm a 5'4 130lb female haha.

Ha, as far as I know this isn't a competition. We might have the same overall muscle mass - whatever - it's not a competition there either. My guess is kiachu works at her physique for her own reasons.

I also don't understand why it isn't "cool" that my calorie maintenance is where it is. I suspect that MFP calculated the maintenance level about correctly as I am maintaining my weight for 90 days using the target. And, again, I am likely underestimating my calories in as I try to estimate the calories in roughly (I mean, it is based on the food I am eating but I eat a lot of home made meals so there are a lot of estimates). But I am probably underestimating consistently enough that it does not matter for the overall goal.

I did mean the whole HUGE/SKINNY ideal as a joke. It is likely that we have different ideals. I might have to find a picture of my goals - but lets say I'm not looking to be action star large.

And, well, my wife has her own issues - basically she would like me not to weigh less than she does for her own psychological reasons - I believe that is the main driver in her wanting me not to weigh less than I do today. Sure, there might be other issues as well - psychology is complicated.

Thanks all for the help - it is off to eating more and lifting more.

kiachu

For the record I don't like hyuuuge, per sae, SideSteel would be what is ideal to me. Fit.

BTW nice Adonis belt SideSteel lol.

kiachu

*L* My maintenance is 2100. And I'm a 5'4 130lb female haha.

Ha, as far as I know this isn't a competition. We might have the same overall muscle mass - whatever - it's not a competition there either. My guess is kiachu works at her physique for her own reasons.

I also don't understand why it isn't "cool" that my calorie maintenance is where it is. I suspect that MFP calculated the maintenance level about correctly as I am maintaining my weight for 90 days using the target.

I guess it hard to believe that a grown, 5'11 165 lb man who says he has started a lifting program amongst whatever else you're doing is maintaining on that amount of calories. Unless something isn't square.

But whatever works for you.

Also keep in mind muscle makes you appear full/round/harder and bigger than you really are.

love4fitnesslove4food_wechange

*L* My maintenance is 2100. And I'm a 5'4 130lb female haha.

Ha, as far as I know this isn't a competition. We might have the same overall muscle mass - whatever - it's not a competition there either. My guess is kiachu works at her physique for her own reasons.

I also don't understand why it isn't "cool" that my calorie maintenance is where it is. I suspect that MFP calculated the maintenance level about correctly as I am maintaining my weight for 90 days using the target. And, again, I am likely underestimating my calories in as I try to estimate the calories in roughly (I mean, it is based on the food I am eating but I eat a lot of home made meals so there are a lot of estimates). But I am probably underestimating consistently enough that it does not matter for the overall goal.

I did mean the whole HUGE/SKINNY ideal as a joke. It is likely that we have different ideals. I might have to find a picture of my goals - but lets say I'm not looking to be action star large.

And, well, my wife has her own issues - basically she would like me not to weigh less than she does for her own psychological reasons - I believe that is the main driver in her wanting me not to weigh less than I do today. Sure, there might be other issues as well - psychology is complicated.

Thanks all for the help - it is off to eating more and lifting more.

Glad you've made that decision. 2100 is NOT maintenance for you--maybe 2100 NET but I am 100% confident that with your activity level you would need more to maintain.