More muscle at caloric maintenance?
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Bump to read later. I've got the same question.0
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Uke - Similar situation here. 5'10" at 156 lbs. I started maintenance 27 August @ 157 lbs and have averaged 2200 NET calories since. Three weeks prior to that I started a heavy lifting routine while running twice weekly. Somehow I'm down a pound (weekly average of daily weighings) while slowly ramping up caloric intake (2300 in the past week). Using the Bailey method, I've dropped 2% BF (13 to 11) since starting maintenance.
My plan is to bulk/cut using the 15/10 method you've described for two cycles. My current issue seems to be adding on weight (which has never been a problem.) I'll likely bump up to 2500 calories and see if that helps. I can tell my strength gains are slowing and likely need to add weight to keep pace. My irrational fear is that I'll wake up one day and suddenly be overweight again.
Good luck.0 -
I am curious about a post in a different thread about caloric maintenance and increasing muscle fiber (hyperplasia). A bit of background, my start weight was 182 lbs, my current weight is 165 lbs - I'm 5'11 and probably about 12-15% bodyfat. Once I hit my goal weight (165) I started to do some strength training - mostly in the form of pullups and pushups (but some other exercises as well). I have maintained caloric balance for about 90 days (3 mos) and managed to increase my pullups from 3 to 10 (I do multiple sets throughout the day so I might do 35-50 in a workout day....) and pushups from 10 to 25 (I do about 150 every other day). So, I definitely have gotten stronger by any measure (10 pullups isn't so bad...). And, visually speaking, I have gained noticeable amounts of size (hypertrophy) in my chest, shoulders and back. I'll also say that I have not undertaken resistance training for quite some time - but I was able to do 12 pullups in the last three years and probably 40 pushups. I figure I will hit a plateau at some point and will have to eat more to gain more mass. Is it possible to know if these gains in size are simply hypertrophy (muscle cells getting bigger) or hyperplasia (more muscle cells)? In the other thread the post said that in caloric deficit it is likely that the person is simply "repair[ing] atrophied muscle [and causing] them to fill up with glycogen." This doesn't seem quite right to me - but I may be naive. Either way, the strength gains are real. Do I care (or should I care) whether the gains are hypertrophy or hyperplasia anyway? Any advice?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperplasia
5'11 and 165? I'd suggest eating MUCH MUCH MUCH more and gaining some more muscle! Not trying to be mean but I really think you would do yourself a favor to gain more mass.0 -
Uke - Similar situation here. 5'10" at 156 lbs. I started maintenance 27 August @ 157 lbs and have averaged 2200 NET calories since. Three weeks prior to that I started a heavy lifting routine while running twice weekly. Somehow I'm down a pound (weekly average of daily weighings) while slowly ramping up caloric intake (2300 in the past week). Using the Bailey method, I've dropped 2% BF (13 to 11) since starting maintenance.
My plan is to bulk/cut using the 15/10 method you've described for two cycles. My current issue seems to be adding on weight (which has never been a problem.) I'll likely bump up to 2500 calories and see if that helps. I can tell my strength gains are slowing and likely need to add weight to keep pace. My irrational fear is that I'll wake up one day and suddenly be overweight again.
Good luck.
being too skinny (from an aesthetic standpoint) is probably WORSE than having a bit too much fat. 2500 calories is not even really BULKING for most males. I have a friend here (sergeantsunshine) who is a small female and is eating 2200 calories TO LOSE just to give you an idea.0 -
Uke - Similar situation here. 5'10" at 156 lbs. I started maintenance 27 August @ 157 lbs and have averaged 2200 NET calories since. Three weeks prior to that I started a heavy lifting routine while running twice weekly. Somehow I'm down a pound (weekly average of daily weighings) while slowly ramping up caloric intake (2300 in the past week). Using the Bailey method, I've dropped 2% BF (13 to 11) since starting maintenance.
My plan is to bulk/cut using the 15/10 method you've described for two cycles. My current issue seems to be adding on weight (which has never been a problem.) I'll likely bump up to 2500 calories and see if that helps. I can tell my strength gains are slowing and likely need to add weight to keep pace. My irrational fear is that I'll wake up one day and suddenly be overweight again.
Good luck.
being too skinny (from an aesthetic standpoint) is probably WORSE than having a bit too much fat. 2500 calories is not even really BULKING for most males. I have a friend here (sergeantsunshine) who is a small female and is eating 2200 calories TO LOSE just to give you an idea.
Well I've certainly never been accused of being too skinny. That said, I have no desire to lose more weight which is why I'm increasing calories. 2300 net (current target) is TDEE+10% for me (or should be w/ a sedentary job at my advanced age of 41). 2500 is TDEE+20%. I suppose I'll just throw caution to the wind and set the target at 2500. I'll blame you if I wake up tomorrow with love handles again.0 -
Uke - Similar situation here. 5'10" at 156 lbs. I started maintenance 27 August @ 157 lbs and have averaged 2200 NET calories since. Three weeks prior to that I started a heavy lifting routine while running twice weekly. Somehow I'm down a pound (weekly average of daily weighings) while slowly ramping up caloric intake (2300 in the past week). Using the Bailey method, I've dropped 2% BF (13 to 11) since starting maintenance.
My plan is to bulk/cut using the 15/10 method you've described for two cycles. My current issue seems to be adding on weight (which has never been a problem.) I'll likely bump up to 2500 calories and see if that helps. I can tell my strength gains are slowing and likely need to add weight to keep pace. My irrational fear is that I'll wake up one day and suddenly be overweight again.
Good luck.
being too skinny (from an aesthetic standpoint) is probably WORSE than having a bit too much fat. 2500 calories is not even really BULKING for most males. I have a friend here (sergeantsunshine) who is a small female and is eating 2200 calories TO LOSE just to give you an idea.
Well I've certainly never been accused of being too skinny. That said, I have no desire to lose more weight which is why I'm increasing calories. 2300 net (current target) is TDEE+10% for me (or should be w/ a sedentary job at my advanced age of 41). 2500 is TDEE+20%. I suppose I'll just throw caution to the wind and set the target at 2500. I'll blame you if I wake up tomorrow with love handles again.
I'll gladly take the blame. Go for the 2500--you won't regret it! Keep protein to 1-1.5g/lb with 3 weight sessions per week. Unrefined carbs (sweet potatoes, brown rice, oatmeal, quinoa, etc) and healthy fats (avocado, olive oil, nuts, seeds) should make up the rest of your diet.0 -
5'11 and 165? I'd suggest eating MUCH MUCH MUCH more and gaining some more muscle! Not trying to be mean but I really think you would do yourself a favor to gain more mass.
^^ THIS. I was reading this thread and the whole time thinking 165 at 5'11? omg..you must be a stick. I am 5'8 and 188 and look healthy...I have muscle mass and I'm still on a defecit to hit 170...but at 170 I'll be around 12.5% BF or so.
So 5'8 170lbs 12.5% BF
and you are at 5'11 165lbs? I find it hard to believe you aren't sub 10% BF with those kind of numbers unless you truly have nearly 0 muscle.0 -
All right, here are some pics. They aren't the best but they are recent. There is a bit of shadow in some of the pictures...
But I'm hardly a stick - well, I don't think I'm a stick...
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All right, here are some pics. They aren't the best but they are recent. There is a bit of shadow in some of the pictures...
But I'm hardly a stick - well, I don't think I'm a stick...
you are skinny--the arms up pic shows it. you've got this--EAT!! LIFT!! EAT SOME MORE!0 -
yeah, you need to lift heavy, lift often, and put some more food down your throat *L*0
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Hmm - this really does not seem skinny to me - my BMI is 23 and certainly not stick-like as someone said... And it does not seem particularly skinny-fat to me either. I clearly don't have a belly but I do have love handles. I do think I could add some muscle. Here are the gratuitous shots. And, anyone? Does 12% to 15% bodyfat seem about right? So, the recommendations are bulk at this point for some time than cut later? We're talking basically about adding 10 lbs at .5 lbs per week caloric surplus before cutting ?
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Start bulking. TDEE + 15% to start, IMO.
1g/lb LBM in protein MINIMUM
.35g/lb bw in fat minimum
remainder in carbs to hit TDEE+15%
Lift heavy.0 -
You look good - 12-15% is dead on I would say. Definitely pretty skinny. I would definitely look to add on some muscle at this point and you will look great. SideSteel's macros suggestion is dead on.0
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Start bulking. TDEE + 15% to start, IMO.
1g/lb LBM in protein MINIMUM
.35g/lb bw in fat minimum
remainder in carbs to hit TDEE+15%
Lift heavy.
This. And get BMI out of your head. It's a pretty useless measurement that is about 100 years old. If you have a good BMI it says to me that you are probably underweight, thus the recommedations you are seeing.0 -
Start bulking. TDEE + 15% to start, IMO.
1g/lb LBM in protein MINIMUM
.35g/lb bw in fat minimum
remainder in carbs to hit TDEE+15%
Lift heavy.
This. And get BMI out of your head. It's a pretty useless measurement that is about 100 years old. If you have a good BMI it says to me that you are probably underweight, thus the recommedations you are seeing.
ditto. any man of mine needs to be close to overweight or OVERWEIGHT. haha. not enough muscle if he's "healthy."0 -
Well, I can say this, at 182 lbs I was no sight for sore eyes - I was fat - er, overweight according to the height/weight charts not obese - and certainly my bodyfat was higher probably closer to the 20% level (again based on visualization). No doubt when I lost the fat I lost a good amount of muscle also - but I probably lost a good deal more fat. So I definitely look healthier at this weight. And given the prescription to diet down to 10% bodyfat I thought that was a reasonable goal to loose weight before bulking. But, then again, I think that at my body weight at 10% bodyfat was going to be about 155 lbs or less and this was something my wife did not like in the past (again, half-ironman training took a lot off - I really struggled to maintain 155 lbs during the half-ironmen training - I ate an enormous amount of ice cream). I stopped losing weight this time at 165 lbs and started strength training - but maintaining caloric balance.
Yeah, so as some have remarked 2100 calories might seem a bit low - I'm not sure (considering what my lean mass is, this is the target from MFP). I also probably underestimate some of my caloric intake but since I do this consistently I am meeting my targets.
But I think some of the women here have different ideals for men. Love4fitnessl and kiachu might like men who are HUGE and I may be skinny in comparison.0 -
Well, I can say this, at 182 lbs I was no sight for sore eyes - I was fat - er, overweight according to the height/weight charts not obese - and certainly my bodyfat was higher probably closer to the 20% level (again based on visualization). No doubt when I lost the fat I lost a good amount of muscle also - but I probably lost a good deal more fat. So I definitely look healthier at this weight. And given the prescription to diet down to 10% bodyfat I thought that was a reasonable goal to loose weight before bulking. But, then again, I think that at my body weight at 10% bodyfat was going to be about 155 lbs or less and this was something my wife did not like in the past (again, half-ironman training took a lot off - I really struggled to maintain 155 lbs during the half-ironmen training - I ate an enormous amount of ice cream). I stopped losing weight this time at 165 lbs and started strength training - but maintaining caloric balance.
Yeah, so as some have remarked 2100 calories might seem a bit low - I'm not sure (considering what my lean mass is, this is the target from MFP). I also probably underestimate some of my caloric intake but since I do this consistently I am meeting my targets.
But I think some of the women here have different ideals for men. Love4fitnessl and kiachu might like men who are HUGE and I may be skinny in comparison.
not at all actually. you're just rather thin.0 -
Well, I can say this, at 182 lbs I was no sight for sore eyes - I was fat - er, overweight according to the height/weight charts not obese - and certainly my bodyfat was higher probably closer to the 20% level (again based on visualization). No doubt when I lost the fat I lost a good amount of muscle also - but I probably lost a good deal more fat. So I definitely look healthier at this weight. And given the prescription to diet down to 10% bodyfat I thought that was a reasonable goal to loose weight before bulking. But, then again, I think that at my body weight at 10% bodyfat was going to be about 155 lbs or less and this was something my wife did not like in the past (again, half-ironman training took a lot off - I really struggled to maintain 155 lbs during the half-ironmen training - I ate an enormous amount of ice cream). I stopped losing weight this time at 165 lbs and started strength training - but maintaining caloric balance.
Yeah, so as some have remarked 2100 calories might seem a bit low - I'm not sure (considering what my lean mass is, this is the target from MFP). I also probably underestimate some of my caloric intake but since I do this consistently I am meeting my targets.
But I think some of the women here have different ideals for men. Love4fitnessl and kiachu might like men who are HUGE and I may be skinny in comparison.
also..EVERYONE is saying you need to gain NOT just me and kiachu. Also, like you said...your wife didn't like it when you were thinner either. You are too thin, period. Bulk, cut and reassess. Also 2100 calories is ridiculous--you're maintaining on that? Seriously? I'm like less than 2/3 your size and eat that. Not cool.0 -
Well, I can say this, at 182 lbs I was no sight for sore eyes - I was fat - er, overweight according to the height/weight charts not obese - and certainly my bodyfat was higher probably closer to the 20% level (again based on visualization). No doubt when I lost the fat I lost a good amount of muscle also - but I probably lost a good deal more fat. So I definitely look healthier at this weight. And given the prescription to diet down to 10% bodyfat I thought that was a reasonable goal to loose weight before bulking. But, then again, I think that at my body weight at 10% bodyfat was going to be about 155 lbs or less and this was something my wife did not like in the past (again, half-ironman training took a lot off - I really struggled to maintain 155 lbs during the half-ironmen training - I ate an enormous amount of ice cream). I stopped losing weight this time at 165 lbs and started strength training - but maintaining caloric balance.
Yeah, so as some have remarked 2100 calories might seem a bit low - I'm not sure (considering what my lean mass is, this is the target from MFP). I also probably underestimate some of my caloric intake but since I do this consistently I am meeting my targets.
But I think some of the women here have different ideals for men. Love4fitnessl and kiachu might like men who are HUGE and I may be skinny in comparison.
not at all actually. you're just rather thin.
What she said!! Your eyes see a very thin body as being ideal and you are backing into that with the rationalization. Most who have responded here are looking it from an optimum objective standard. The concensus is that you are very thin and that you could use more mass. That doesn't mean that others like people who are HUGE. You could stand a little lean muscle meat on those bones. Accept that and take action or decide you like how you are.0 -
Well, I can say this, at 182 lbs I was no sight for sore eyes - I was fat - er, overweight according to the height/weight charts not obese - and certainly my bodyfat was higher probably closer to the 20% level (again based on visualization). No doubt when I lost the fat I lost a good amount of muscle also - but I probably lost a good deal more fat. So I definitely look healthier at this weight. And given the prescription to diet down to 10% bodyfat I thought that was a reasonable goal to loose weight before bulking. But, then again, I think that at my body weight at 10% bodyfat was going to be about 155 lbs or less and this was something my wife did not like in the past (again, half-ironman training took a lot off - I really struggled to maintain 155 lbs during the half-ironmen training - I ate an enormous amount of ice cream). I stopped losing weight this time at 165 lbs and started strength training - but maintaining caloric balance.
Yeah, so as some have remarked 2100 calories might seem a bit low - I'm not sure (considering what my lean mass is, this is the target from MFP). I also probably underestimate some of my caloric intake but since I do this consistently I am meeting my targets.
But I think some of the women here have different ideals for men. Love4fitnessl and kiachu might like men who are HUGE and I may be skinny in comparison.
also..EVERYONE is saying you need to gain NOT just me and kiachu. Also, like you said...your wife didn't like it when you were thinner either. You are too thin, period. Bulk, cut and reassess. Also 2100 calories is ridiculous--you're maintaining on that? Seriously? I'm like less than 2/3 your size and eat that. Not cool.
*L* My maintenance is 2100. And I'm a 5'4 130lb female haha.0
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