Okay, can we clear up this "moderation" thing?

angiechimpanzee

I feel like the argument about moderation is so vague. One side says that cutting out certain foods you have trouble with completely is your best bet, because they cause nothing but harm, addictive behavior & overeating. Then another side says that cutting out any food is absurd, and soon you'll just feel deprived and eat a huge load of the food you were trying to avoid so you have to eat it in "moderation".

Please, anyone, let me know, exactly WHAT do you mean by "moderation"? Once a week? Once a day? Once a month? How much? Is a whole packet of super addictive cookies okay to keep in the house as long as you swearrr only to have two of them a day, even though in the past you have a strong history of eating entire packages of that brand of cookie in one sitting? If someone feels like a slave to a certain type of food, as in once they start they usually can't stop, then is telling them "ok just try to have one" really going to work? Or is it better for that person to just steer clear from that food?

And also, if a person knows that a certain food is only causing them harm & episodic binges, and they make the decision to cut it out for the betterment of their sanity and health, then are they really "depriving" themselves? If they KNOW they can live without it and they're HAPPIER without it, how is that deprivation?

I'd really like to hear some opinions on this.

Mokey41

It's up to you to decide what you want to do. If you know that having those cookies in the house will lead to a binge then don't have them in the house. If you have enough willpower to have one cookie a day then by all means have a cookie. I love chocolate, I keep chocolate in my house but I know that it would be bad to eat all the chocolate right now so I make myself eat it in my budget.

You'll always have temptations and part of living as a thinner person is learning to deal with them and to view food in a healthy way. 90% of weight loss is between your ears!

LittleMissDover

The argument is vague because moderation is personal. For someone who used to drink a bottle of wine a night, a glass of wine a night is moderation, to someone who only drank a glass a night, a glass a week is.

I just finished a large box of luxury chocolates, I've had 3ish a day within my macros, that's moderation for me as previously the box would have been gone in a day or two.

If you know you can happily live without something then of course it's not deprivation, if you are going to spend your life thinking I really, really want 'X' then you're depriving yourself.

Do what's best for you, not what others say you should.

melsinct

It's up to you to decide what you want to do. If you know that having those cookies in the house will lead to a binge then don't have them in the house. If you have enough willpower to have one cookie a day then by all means have a cookie.

Exactly. This is why the people on MFP who are always yelling MY WAY IS THE ONLY RIGHT WAY drive me flippin' nuts. Everything about weight loss is subjective. I can completely control myself around sweets, so if I have cookies in the house, I can eat one per night, one every other night, or whatever. The sleeve of cookies isn't in danger. If I have a box of Cheez-Its in the house, game on! Those things are my kryptonite, I can't eat them in moderation, so I don't buy them. Again, we are all different.

KLo924

Figure out what works for you This whole diet thing is a process.

For me, I know having a bag of cookies or whatever around would be nothing but trouble, so I keep those sorts of things out of the house. However, if I'm at an amazing restaurant I may order whatever I feel like, including a dessert. My "in moderation" means not surrounding myself with temptation, and eating clean as much as possible because I know I feel better when I do; but it also means not depriving myself of an amazing splurge meal from time to time.

I think it boils down to how aware I am of what I'm doing - I'd mindlessly eat the cookies, but I savor the kickass meal if that makes sense

Moxie42

What everyone has said is entirely true. What works for one person might not work for another and the only way to know what works for you is by trial and error. There might even be something that works for a long time but then you could hit a plateau and need to change things up.

For me personally, moderation means it's okay to eat unhealthy things sometimes, like sugar, processed food, simple carbs, and alcohol...but I am most successful when I limit those things and stick to mostly clean eating (not having processed food or added sugar)...and when I DO have those "unhealthy" things it's in my best interest to fit them into my calorie budget (though the world won't end if I go over my cals one day). This works for me but I don't assume this is how everyone should think of it.

Heather_Rider

I personally feel like you need to try both options, and do what works for you.

"moderation" for me is using portion control in everything i eat.

For instance. I like fruit. Why not have it for breakfast, instead of pancakes full of sugar and tons of syrup? (save that for a cheat day! Not to mention, that will give you a major sugar crash. However.. if i want mash taters, mac & cheese and french fries for supper.. so? just have a serving size.. and as long as you can fit it into your calories.. go for it.

Typically, for me, if you make "better" choices in your life, you can fit in just about anything you want.

An example for a day for me will be fruit for breakfast.. and a light lunch, like lean meat, some cheese and more friut if i want it. (i am a very light "day eater" i prefer & like to eat in the evenings.

My supper is the same exact things i have always eaten & fed my family, with only slight changes..

For instance.. say we are having.. meatloaf, mash potatos, brown gravy, peas and dinner rolls.

in the meatloaf, add a veggie. (mash it if you want, just add it.) use half the bread crumbs by adding the veggie!) also, add egg whites, not the whole egg. eat A SERVING, not a pile.

in the mash. use light butter, and no salt. pepper them up!! want more flavor? add a teaspoon of sour cream!

gravy. one tablespoon (or just pass that up!)

veggie - light butter

bread.. pretty easy. eat it LAST, so you will be full. eat half, and very easy on the butter.

and the best part? MAKE YOURSELF A REALLY BIG SALAD AND EAT IT FIRST!! A cup of lettuce, tomato, cucumber, black olives and 1/4 cup mozzarella cheese is less than 100 calories. add 2 tablespoons Vermont farms balsamic vinegarette dressing TO THE LETTUCE) not to the top of the salad and its 115 calories total!

HUGE MEAL for 650 calories, and my daily goal is 800 calories. plenty left over for snacks, and thats just on a 1200 calorie diet!!

I have a blog on eating "real" foods on moderation, with recipes if you are interested!! Send me a friend request! The blog address is on my profile page.

You can sign up for email alerts on the blog. (only like 2 per month) A friend of mine made a folder in her email called "recipes" she saves the email there... then, when she is at the store, she can access my recipes on her email by phone, and has the ingredients with her!! (now i send all my recipes to my email! LOL!)


Good luck!

ErB56

I think that in most references, 'moderation' simply means that it fits into your numbers. If I have 250 calories of my favorite cookie (Oreos!) then I make modifications to today's intake so I hit my calorie goal. I think there is a difference between moderation and willpower/triggers. For me, I like coffee but with WAY too much sugar and creamer. When I get to work feeling tired and unmotivated, it is too easy for me to justify having that coffee. So I took my coffee cup home, knowing that I am no good with it. No matter how you slice it, that much refined sugar does not count as 'moderation'. Moderation is also a mechanism so people don't feel deprived in their diet. The occasional Oreo is a welcome treat and keeps me from feeling like I am being punished by the diet.

vtmoon

You need to have will power before you can achieve moderation. Everyone seems to have a food that makes them lose that will power, so eliminating that food when you start your new life style or dieting might be a positive step in the big picture. You can introduce that food back as you get a hold of your food intake, cause hopefully you have gotten a hold of the concept of moderation.

If you look at it from a "depriving" view point then you are looking at it wrong, since technically you are "depriving" your body from all the extra calories the body was use to getting whenever it wanted.

So Moderation can be achieved by removing an item from your diet for a little bit until you have control and the will power to eat that item in moderation.

For example for me that item was ketchup, I would eat ketchup with just bread. So when I started MFP I stopped Ketchup all together and then once I got control of my eating habits I started using Ketchup every now and then with burgers.

shadoewz

There are foods that I really need to avoid just like an alcoholic avoids drinking....because if I start in on it, I just won't stop. I am with you on the "depriving" thing.....I don't feel deprived when I avoid eating trigger foods like bread or potatoes because there really isn't anything in them that my body cannot live without. On the other hand, there are a couple things that I adore to eat, and in moderation they really aren't "bad" for me...for example, dark chocolate....If I go to the store and only buy ONE bar, I'm fine....but I don't dare buy more because I know I will eat them.
It's confusing because it's one of those "six of one, half a dozen of the other" things....just depends on what it is, and the individual person.

Molly_Maguire

I think it is entirely up to you. "Know thyself", they say. If you know a particular brand of cookie is like crack for you and you have a history of binging on them and you don't think you could ever be satisfied with just two or three, sadly I think it's time to say goodbye to them. (It is for this exact reason that I no longer allow Oreos in the house. )

As far as "moderation" goes, I interpret it as: if you have the calories to eat it, go for it! There is nothing I really cut out of my diet completely, but that is only because I am pretty good at keeping my consumption of unhealthy foods in check. I may not ever buy a certain food anymore, but to tell yourself "you can never have it again" is a surefire way to crack and stuff yourself full of devil forbidden food in a moment of weakness. I allow myself have Oreos and Cherry Coke on occasion, but it's so much easier to resist if I just don't have it in the house.

WendyTerry420

Ok, for me, it means eating only one or two slices of pizza (one if lunch, two if dinner) instead of a whole pizza plus breadsticks. It means measuring out one serving of ice cream instead of filling a cereal bowl full. It means drinking one beer with a meal rather than a six pack plus a pint of vodka. It means choosing between one dessert or another instead of "sampling" them all.

These are just some examples of how I have changed my lifestyle.

ash8184

You might want to try cutting out certain things completely and then adding them back in. I found that once I cut out everything but protein, veggies & fruit, I appreciated the taste of other things much more and smaller quantities was all I needed to be happy. However, I know this doesn't work for everyone so do what feels right to you. Just remember: eat to live, don't live to eat.

hellohappylisa

Like everyone else said, it's a personal thing. It's not half a cup or two tablespoons or anything! I have a handful of dark chocolate chunks almost every day because I would not be happy cutting it out.

I started getting potato chips just twice a month and now the amount of oil on them completely grosses me out, so I don't even eat them anymore. I used to eat a looot of them! So moderation with those actually made me cut them out forever haha.

Ice cream I let myself buy once a month. And it's just a pint with 4 servings. Though I usually eat two servings at a time because hey, it's ice cream time! Haha

It all depends on you.

LizFffff

Hi,

I truly recommend The Mindful Appetite or any book by Dr. Albers. Her book and philosophy center around eating in a slow and mindful way and staying present to gauge if you're eating for hunger or for emotions.

By the way, she does not advocate to cut anything out, just to be very aware when you're eating something that is a trigger for binging.

Good luck,

Liz

WendyTerry420

And also, if a person knows that a certain food is only causing them harm & episodic binges, and they make the decision to cut it out for the betterment of their sanity and health, then are they really "depriving" themselves? If they KNOW they can live without it and they're HAPPIER without it, how is that deprivation?

On this point, alcohol is a perfect example. I quit drinking hard liquor (and also beer) after a depression cycle + binge drinking. After about six months or so, I slowly let myself drink beer again. Now I can drink beer without drinking a gallon in one sitting. On the other hand, I still will not drink vodka. I know that I can't handle it, so it's gone from my life. You have to be able to learn from your own mistakes and know your limits.

MrDude_1

If you dont do exactly like I do, you're wrong.

vvanm

There are foods you eat for health and food you eat soley for taste. Don't fill up on food you just taste because your brain will want the nutrients it needs and will tell you to keep eating until they happen. This is where the signals get crossed. If it's a food you want more than one serving of, it's probably on the taste list. Don't have it in the house if you cannot stick to one serving a day or less and it is factored into your daily calorie count. 100 calorie bags may be helpful for portion control, vs. one big bag full of chips or cookies. Eat 80% healthfully, 20% anything = daily calories.

angiechimpanzee

It's up to you to decide what you want to do. If you know that having those cookies in the house will lead to a binge then don't have them in the house. If you have enough willpower to have one cookie a day then by all means have a cookie.

Exactly. This is why the people on MFP who are always yelling MY WAY IS THE ONLY RIGHT WAY drive me flippin' nuts. Everything about weight loss is subjective. I can completely control myself around sweets, so if I have cookies in the house, I can eat one per night, one every other night, or whatever. The sleeve of cookies isn't in danger. If I have a box of Cheez-Its in the house, game on! Those things are my kryptonite, I can't eat them in moderation, so I don't buy them. Again, we are all different.

True, I'm definitely agreeing with this.

I can TOTALLY have one cheeseburger & skip the fries. But cookies.. goodness.

Chief_Rocka

I would say that 80-90% of your diet should be whole or minimally processed food, and you get adequate daily macro and micro nutrients.

^^^If you can accomplish these goals while devouring a pint of ice cream or half a large pizza, have at it.

angiechimpanzee

There are foods you eat for health and food you eat soley for taste. Don't fill up on food you just taste because your brain will want the nutrients it needs and will tell you to keep eating until they happen. This is where the signals get crossed. If it's a food you want more than one serving of, it's probably on the taste list. Don't have it in the house if you cannot stick to one serving a day or less and it is factored into your daily calorie count. 100 calorie bags may be helpful for portion control, vs. one big bag full of chips or cookies. Eat 80% healthfully, 20% anything = daily calories.

I like this theory as well, the 80/20 thing.

wfte

Agree that it's very much a personal thing. I have some items I shouldn't eat too much of that I can have in the house and practise willpower to not over indulge. There's some items I can't so I practice the willpower in the supermarket by not buying them in the first place.