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Gym vs Own body strength excersises
Replies
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Planches are an impressive exercise BUT like the hand stand push up it no longer remains a chest press and just starts to incorporate other muscles. Mostly shoulders and back. It will not allow you to lift more weight. You will simply be able to do more of them.0
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I agree that it depends on your goals. Some people aren't trying to squat 400 pounds.0
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P.S.- I lmost always see freeweights/ bench weight sets at Goodwill/Thriftstores.0
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I agree that it depends on your goals. Some people aren't trying to squat 400 pounds.
Most people will never squat that much. The point is that a person can do body weight squats for a while and eventually will become so efficient at the them that they will not longer get the strength building benefit of the squat. You can modify the lift to a pistol squat and after mastering the technical aspect of it, will be able to do sets of large reps and will no longer see increased benefits of progressing resistance.
I agree if this is your goal then that is great but the question was are these the same as weights. The answer is that it is very hard to stay in the strength building rep ranges that weights easily allow you to accomplish.
That being said I know lots of guys (myself included) that can squat quite a bit of weight (relative to body weight) and cant do pistol squats easily. That is because it is different and that has benefits of its own. That is why you cannot compare the two and both should be incorporated into fitness programs.0 -
bump..0
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How is the workout on this site that different from 30 Day Shred? Not trying to open a can of worms, but just genuinely curious...
http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2009/12/09/beginner-body-weight-workout-burn-fat-build-muscle/
Are there any alternate DVDs people would recommend for strength training? I'm not the OP but also am curious. I do go to the gym but like to have good options at home as well (and have 3, 5, 10, and 15 lb free weights.. open to buying some other equipment as well, though).0 -
P.S.- I lmost always see freeweights/ bench weight sets at Goodwill/Thriftstores.
I wish I could find them at mine! Only old electronics, clothes, and furniture. I guess people where I live hand on to their weights. i am always looking!0 -
I agree that it depends on your goals. Some people aren't trying to squat 400 pounds.
Most people will never squat that much. The point is that a person can do body weight squats for a while and eventually will become so efficient at the them that they will not longer get the strength building benefit of the squat. You can modify the lift to a pistol squat and after mastering the technical aspect of it, will be able to do sets of large reps and will no longer see increased benefits of progressing resistance.
I agree if this is your goal then that is great but the question was are these the same as weights. The answer is that it is very hard to stay in the strength building rep ranges that weights easily allow you to accomplish.
That being said I know lots of guys (myself included) that can squat quite a bit of weight (relative to body weight) and cant do pistol squats easily. That is because it is different and that has benefits of its own. That is why you cannot compare the two and both should be incorporated into fitness programs.
Valid point. From what I have seen, I think it's a good idea to switch things up every so often anyway.0 -
Planches are an impressive exercise BUT like the hand stand push up it no longer remains a chest press and just starts to incorporate other muscles. Mostly shoulders and back. It will not allow you to lift more weight. You will simply be able to do more of them.
It is a dynamic-static exercise. (you have to hold a heavy isometric with the same prime movers simultaneous with using the muscles to do the reps)
The load on your chest is exactly the same as if you unrack a 1x BW bench press, lock your elbows, and hold it above your belly button. Then do reps to your belly button instead of your chest and back up.
Due to the change in lever arm between the weight and your shoudler, there is a substantial multiplier added to the weight, yet the rotation of yor upper arm in your shoulder is almost exactly the same as a typical bench press. With external load this is ridiculously unsafe to do (don't try this on a bench). With no external load, using your bodyweight, it is very safe. Something goes wrong, you belly flop to the ground. The only real issue is if you are fairly strong yet have no straight arm isometric experience, chances are decent that you will tear your bicep tendon or seriously injure your elbow since you aren't strong at preventing elbow hyperextension having not gone through the progression to get that strength.0 -
Planches are an impressive exercise BUT like the hand stand push up it no longer remains a chest press and just starts to incorporate other muscles. Mostly shoulders and back. It will not allow you to lift more weight. You will simply be able to do more of them.
It is a dynamic-static exercise. (you have to hold a heavy isometric with the same prime movers simultaneous with using the muscles to do the reps)
The load on your chest is exactly the same as if you unrack a 1x BW bench press, lock your elbows, and hold it above your belly button. Then do reps to your belly button instead of your chest and back up.
Due to the change in lever arm between the weight and your shoudler, there is a substantial multiplier added to the weight, yet the rotation of yor upper arm in your shoulder is almost exactly the same as a typical bench press. With external load this is ridiculously unsafe to do (don't try this on a bench). With no external load, using your bodyweight, it is very safe. Something goes wrong, you belly flop to the ground. The only real issue is if you are fairly strong yet have no straight arm isometric experience, chances are decent that you will tear your bicep tendon or seriously injure your elbow since you aren't strong at preventing elbow hyperextension having not gone through the progression to get that strength.
Thats what I said...no longer a chest press.0 -
Thats website you posted is for weight training...
The website I posted is a calculator that can give a reasonably good estimate of your maximum drug-free measurements. That is, your genetic growth potential from strength training.0 -
I do a combo from: nerdfitness.com and scoobysworkshop.com
For 100 bucks you can get all the weight equipment you need. I don't think the gym is worth it.0 -
Planches are an impressive exercise BUT like the hand stand push up it no longer remains a chest press and just starts to incorporate other muscles. Mostly shoulders and back. It will not allow you to lift more weight. You will simply be able to do more of them.
It is a dynamic-static exercise. (you have to hold a heavy isometric with the same prime movers simultaneous with using the muscles to do the reps)
The load on your chest is exactly the same as if you unrack a 1x BW bench press, lock your elbows, and hold it above your belly button. Then do reps to your belly button instead of your chest and back up.
Due to the change in lever arm between the weight and your shoudler, there is a substantial multiplier added to the weight, yet the rotation of yor upper arm in your shoulder is almost exactly the same as a typical bench press. With external load this is ridiculously unsafe to do (don't try this on a bench). With no external load, using your bodyweight, it is very safe. Something goes wrong, you belly flop to the ground. The only real issue is if you are fairly strong yet have no straight arm isometric experience, chances are decent that you will tear your bicep tendon or seriously injure your elbow since you aren't strong at preventing elbow hyperextension having not gone through the progression to get that strength.
Thats what I said...no longer a chest press.
How is it not a chest press? Your chest, triceps, and deltoids are still the prime movers, it is a horizontal plane pressing exercise same as the bench. Your shoulder (hence chest) doesn't know where the weight is located, it only knows how much torque is applied to the shoudler. Whether you increase the weight or move the weight further from the rotational point, there is no difference, the net effect of increasing the rotational force applied to the joint is the same.
The standard bench press to the chest is similar to doing preacher curls with the bar resting in your elbows instead of in your hands. Provided your can stand the pain on your forearms, you should be able to curl a ridiculous amount of weight this way. Move the bar to your hands, you increase the lever arm and increase the difficulty of moving the weight. Whether the bar is in yoru hands or in your elbows, it is still a curl.0 -
How is the workout on this site that different from 30 Day Shred? Not trying to open a can of worms, but just genuinely curious...
http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2009/12/09/beginner-body-weight-workout-burn-fat-build-muscle/
Are there any alternate DVDs people would recommend for strength training? I'm not the OP but also am curious. I do go to the gym but like to have good options at home as well (and have 3, 5, 10, and 15 lb free weights.. open to buying some other equipment as well, though).
I dont know much about the 30DS but the nerdfitness.com workout gets lots of great reviews. You could get in really great shape with both. Building muscle has a lot to do with diet and working in a hypertrophy rep range. You can do that for quite awhile with a lot of body weight exercise and even more with minimal equipment.0 -
How is the workout on this site that different from 30 Day Shred? Not trying to open a can of worms, but just genuinely curious...
http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2009/12/09/beginner-body-weight-workout-burn-fat-build-muscle/
Are there any alternate DVDs people would recommend for strength training? I'm not the OP but also am curious. I do go to the gym but like to have good options at home as well (and have 3, 5, 10, and 15 lb free weights.. open to buying some other equipment as well, though).
I dont know much about the 30DS but the nerdfitness.com workout gets lots of great reviews. You could get in really great shape with both. Building muscle has a lot to do with diet and working in a hypertrophy rep range. You can do that for quite awhile with a lot of body weight exercise and even more with minimal equipment.
Here is an actual advanced bodyweight workout (also at Nerdfitness):
http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2012/08/23/batman-bodyweight-workout/
If you aren't well past the linear gains period of strength training, chances are you aren't strong enough to do the advanced levels of this workout. And that is still really only low-intermediate level stuff. You can still make BW movements much harder than these.0 -
It is a dynamic-static exercise. (you have to hold a heavy isometric with the same prime movers simultaneous with using the muscles to do the reps)
The load on your chest is exactly the same as if you unrack a 1x BW bench press, lock your elbows, and hold it above your belly button. Then do reps to your belly button instead of your chest and back up.
Due to the change in lever arm between the weight and your shoudler, there is a substantial multiplier added to the weight, yet the rotation of yor upper arm in your shoulder is almost exactly the same as a typical bench press. With external load this is ridiculously unsafe to do (don't try this on a bench). With no external load, using your bodyweight, it is very safe. Something goes wrong, you belly flop to the ground.
You know what is even safer? Using less weight that you can actually handle and progressing up to body weight.The only real issue is if you are fairly strong yet have no straight arm isometric experience, chances are decent that you will tear your bicep tendon or seriously injure your elbow since you aren't strong at preventing elbow hyperextension having not gone through the progression to get that strength.
Thats what I said...no longer a chest press.
How is it not a chest press? Your chest, triceps, and deltoids are still the prime movers, it is a horizontal plane pressing exercise same as the bench. Your shoulder (hence chest) doesn't know where the weight is located, it only knows how much torque is applied to the shoudler. Whether you increase the weight or move the weight further from the rotational point, there is no difference, the net effect of increasing the rotational force applied to the joint is the same.
? The difference would be in which muscle perform the majority of the work. If I chest press to my nipples on a flat bench I am engaging a majority of chest and tri. As I incline the bench angle and/or change the bar path it changes the muscles that are used. A push up is a push up until it is a shoulder press. As you change the angle you will engage more of the one muscle and LESSEN the load on the other.0 -
The standard bench press to the chest is similar to doing preacher curls with the bar resting in your elbows instead of in your hands. Provided your can stand the pain on your forearms, you should be able to curl a ridiculous amount of weight this way. Move the bar to your hands, you increase the lever arm and increase the difficulty of moving the weight. Whether the bar is in yoru hands or in your elbows, it is still a curl.
If the bar is in your elbows, to lift the bar you would be using more should and back, not as much biceps. as opposed to in your hands and leaving your arms still. Then it is almost all biceps0 -
What are your goals? If you want to get bigger muscles (not just stronger muscles, but bigger ones) then a structured free weights routine (either at home or at the gym) is probably your best bet for that. Aside from that, I think it boils down to what you might enjoy more. Being able to do pull-ups and push-ups is a good measure of fitness, you don't necessarily have to lift heavy objects. And remember there's gymnastics, once you get into the higher level of bodyweight training. If you're interested in that at all, go for the functionality of bodyweight exercises. If you're not overly interested in that (and that's okay!) then maybe you'll enjoy lifting more. You should do whatever you'll enjoy most. Jillian Michaels DVDs aren't a bad place for a beginner to start, though they are more cardio than weight work. Still - there's some beginner weight work in there that you may find useful for starting out with, and it's entertaining.
^^^
It really depends on what you want from it. If you want to tone up and have lean muscles you don't need heavy lifting. You could get some light hand weights (which are cheap at walmart) and add those to your work outs. Or even get some weighted wrist/ankle bands for it. Those will keep you strong, but not give you BIG muscles.
BUT if you want bigger in appearance muscles, and even defined like some of the pics you see here, you will need heavier weights.0 -
How is the workout on this site that different from 30 Day Shred? Not trying to open a can of worms, but just genuinely curious...
http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2009/12/09/beginner-body-weight-workout-burn-fat-build-muscle/
Are there any alternate DVDs people would recommend for strength training? I'm not the OP but also am curious. I do go to the gym but like to have good options at home as well (and have 3, 5, 10, and 15 lb free weights.. open to buying some other equipment as well, though).
there's no use for weights under 10#0 -
It is a dynamic-static exercise. (you have to hold a heavy isometric with the same prime movers simultaneous with using the muscles to do the reps)
The load on your chest is exactly the same as if you unrack a 1x BW bench press, lock your elbows, and hold it above your belly button. Then do reps to your belly button instead of your chest and back up.
Due to the change in lever arm between the weight and your shoudler, there is a substantial multiplier added to the weight, yet the rotation of yor upper arm in your shoulder is almost exactly the same as a typical bench press. With external load this is ridiculously unsafe to do (don't try this on a bench). With no external load, using your bodyweight, it is very safe. Something goes wrong, you belly flop to the ground.
You know what is even safer? Using less weight that you can actually handle and progressing up to body weight.The only real issue is if you are fairly strong yet have no straight arm isometric experience, chances are decent that you will tear your bicep tendon or seriously injure your elbow since you aren't strong at preventing elbow hyperextension having not gone through the progression to get that strength.
Thats what I said...no longer a chest press.
How is it not a chest press? Your chest, triceps, and deltoids are still the prime movers, it is a horizontal plane pressing exercise same as the bench. Your shoulder (hence chest) doesn't know where the weight is located, it only knows how much torque is applied to the shoudler. Whether you increase the weight or move the weight further from the rotational point, there is no difference, the net effect of increasing the rotational force applied to the joint is the same.
? The difference would be in which muscle perform the majority of the work. If I chest press to my nipples on a flat bench I am engaging a majority of chest and tri. As I incline the bench angle and/or change the bar path it changes the muscles that are used. A push up is a push up until it is a shoulder press. As you change the angle you will engage more of the one muscle and LESSEN the load on the other.
What muscle then performs the majority of the work in a planche pushup?
Another way to look at a planche pushup is that you are doing flat as a board, perfectly horizontal, pushups in a dip station. Simply holding the horizontal position take a huge amount of chest strength.0 -
The standard bench press to the chest is similar to doing preacher curls with the bar resting in your elbows instead of in your hands. Provided your can stand the pain on your forearms, you should be able to curl a ridiculous amount of weight this way. Move the bar to your hands, you increase the lever arm and increase the difficulty of moving the weight. Whether the bar is in yoru hands or in your elbows, it is still a curl.
Yes we all understand power of leverage. If I move the bar from the path close to my chest down to my navel I will effectively change the exercise to front delt raises and away from a chest press. Engaging totally different muscles.0 -
The standard bench press to the chest is similar to doing preacher curls with the bar resting in your elbows instead of in your hands. Provided your can stand the pain on your forearms, you should be able to curl a ridiculous amount of weight this way. Move the bar to your hands, you increase the lever arm and increase the difficulty of moving the weight. Whether the bar is in yoru hands or in your elbows, it is still a curl.
If the bar is in your elbows, to lift the bar you would be using more should and back, not as much biceps. as opposed to in your hands and leaving your arms still. Then it is almost all biceps
Preacher curls?
I fail to see how your back and shoulder would do anything. It is a bicep isolation exercise.0 -
How is the workout on this site that different from 30 Day Shred? Not trying to open a can of worms, but just genuinely curious...
http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2009/12/09/beginner-body-weight-workout-burn-fat-build-muscle/
Are there any alternate DVDs people would recommend for strength training? I'm not the OP but also am curious. I do go to the gym but like to have good options at home as well (and have 3, 5, 10, and 15 lb free weights.. open to buying some other equipment as well, though).
I dont know much about the 30DS but the nerdfitness.com workout gets lots of great reviews. You could get in really great shape with both. Building muscle has a lot to do with diet and working in a hypertrophy rep range. You can do that for quite awhile with a lot of body weight exercise and even more with minimal equipment.
Thanks for your response! The 30DS is set-up with three sets of 3 minutes strength, 2 minutes cardio, and 1 minute abs (the exact workouts vary by level.. the DVD has three different levels). Some of the things listed on that site reminded me of the 30DS workout, so I just wanted to see if there was some inherent difference that I didn't know about. I guess I will just have to give the Nerd Fitness one a try and see how they compare
I am still learning about strength training and all kinds of other things.. but I find the 30DS to be a good workout (and feel that it does have some kind of strength component, though maybe not at the same level as other workouts mentioned).0 -
You can make weights very cheaply out of all kinds of household items. Milk jugs make great kettlebells for example.
Here are a couple of sites to get you started:
http://www.wikihow.com/Make-a-Homemade-Weight-Set <- how to make starter weights from household items
http://homemadestrength.blogspot.com/2012/04/concrete-weights.html <- how to make advanced heavier weights cheaply from concrete0 -
The standard bench press to the chest is similar to doing preacher curls with the bar resting in your elbows instead of in your hands. Provided your can stand the pain on your forearms, you should be able to curl a ridiculous amount of weight this way. Move the bar to your hands, you increase the lever arm and increase the difficulty of moving the weight. Whether the bar is in yoru hands or in your elbows, it is still a curl.
Yes we all understand power of leverage. If I move the bar from the path close to my chest down to my navel I will effectively change the exercise to front delt raises and away from a chest press. Engaging totally different muscles.
You've tried this, right?
Remember, the arms are only straight at the top of the rep, at lockout. Detoid involvement drops out every fast. It is much more like a chest dip during the moving part of the exercise. When I do pseudo planche pushups (I'm not near strong enough for the full version yet), the chest is quite literally the only place I feel them. A well performed pseudo planche pushup is every bit as hard as a good form one arm pushup.0 -
What muscle then performs the majority of the work in a planche pushup?
Another way to look at a planche pushup is that you are doing flat as a board, perfectly horizontal, pushups in a dip station. Simply holding the horizontal position take a huge amount of chest strength.
Put your hands together out in front of you and push them together as hard as you can. You will feel it in your chest. Lower your hands to your waist and do it again. Still in your chest, right? Now put a dumbbell between your hands and lift the weight from your waist to your chest level with your arms straight. You will be using more of your shoulders to raise the weight and little of your chest to keep the inward force that you had before.0 -
How is the workout on this site that different from 30 Day Shred? Not trying to open a can of worms, but just genuinely curious...
http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2009/12/09/beginner-body-weight-workout-burn-fat-build-muscle/
Are there any alternate DVDs people would recommend for strength training? I'm not the OP but also am curious. I do go to the gym but like to have good options at home as well (and have 3, 5, 10, and 15 lb free weights.. open to buying some other equipment as well, though).
there's no use for weights under 10#
Could you help me understand your comment? Why is there no use for weights under 10 lbs?0 -
The standard bench press to the chest is similar to doing preacher curls with the bar resting in your elbows instead of in your hands. Provided your can stand the pain on your forearms, you should be able to curl a ridiculous amount of weight this way. Move the bar to your hands, you increase the lever arm and increase the difficulty of moving the weight. Whether the bar is in yoru hands or in your elbows, it is still a curl.
Yes we all understand power of leverage. If I move the bar from the path close to my chest down to my navel I will effectively change the exercise to front delt raises and away from a chest press. Engaging totally different muscles.
You've tried this, right?
Remember, the arms are only straight at the top of the rep, at lockout. Detoid involvement drops out every fast. It is much more like a chest dip during the moving part of the exercise.
If you mean a planche push up no I cant do one. But I can change the path of barbell from chest level to navel level and feel a very big difference in which muscles are being activated.0 -
Thanks for your response! The 30DS is set-up with three sets of 3 minutes strength, 2 minutes cardio, and 1 minute abs (the exact workouts vary by level.. the DVD has three different levels). Some of the things listed on that site reminded me of the 30DS workout, so I just wanted to see if there was some inherent difference that I didn't know about. I guess I will just have to give the Nerd Fitness one a try and see how they compare
I am still learning about strength training and all kinds of other things.. but I find the 30DS to be a good workout (and feel that it does have some kind of strength component, though maybe not at the same level as other workouts mentioned).
The difference is mostly resistance training vs cardio. Strength training gets thrown around a lot for these mostly cardio/conditioning programs. At first this is kind of accurate as someone new to training can find some of these exercise very difficult and get a strength training benefit from them. That will quickly go away as the body adapts.
Resistance training is very beneficial to maintaining and growing muscle mass.
here is an article with attached study on the different effect each can have while in a calorie deficit.
http://fitnessblackbook.com/dieting_for_fat_loss/maintain-muscle-mass-on-800-calories-per-day/0 -
The standard bench press to the chest is similar to doing preacher curls with the bar resting in your elbows instead of in your hands. Provided your can stand the pain on your forearms, you should be able to curl a ridiculous amount of weight this way. Move the bar to your hands, you increase the lever arm and increase the difficulty of moving the weight. Whether the bar is in yoru hands or in your elbows, it is still a curl.
Yes we all understand power of leverage. If I move the bar from the path close to my chest down to my navel I will effectively change the exercise to front delt raises and away from a chest press. Engaging totally different muscles.
You've tried this, right?
Remember, the arms are only straight at the top of the rep, at lockout. Detoid involvement drops out every fast. It is much more like a chest dip during the moving part of the exercise.
If you mean a planche push up no I cant do one. But I can change the path of barbell from chest level to navel level and feel a very big difference in which muscles are being activated.
Get in a pushup position with straight arms, hands to the sides or backwards. Lean forward as far as you can over your hands, still able to hold without failure; something you could hold 15 seconds or so. Staying straight as a board, do elbows by your sides pushups (you have to stay straight as a board throughout the rep). Where do you feel them? Should be all chest.
You can further isolate the chest by doing the same thing, but with your hands away from your body, like an arrow when viewed from above. Pseudo maltese pushups. They are more or less a chest isolation exercise. The further toward your waist your hands are, the harder they are. Get stronge enough and you'll be able to lift your feet or do them with your feet on an elevated surface.0
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