Things I don't believe about nutrition...

cedarghost

Bet that thread title got your attention!!! There are so many people on many nutrition nforums just itching for a fight to prove that they know more than someone else.
So I am probably starting a thread that will get flamed all to hell. That's cool. I don't really care. The point of this thread is to encourage people to research this stuff, realize that what works for one person may not necessarily work for you, and learn, learn, learn as much as you can. Oh....and learn as much as you can!

I know, I repeated learn many times, but that's my point. Never take anything you read at face value. Don't even trust what I am writing now. Take it with a grain of salt, try it out and see how YOUR body reacts to it. Because at the end of the day, that is what matters. there are a million things that are debatable floating around on any nutrition forum you read. Here is a short list:

1. Never eat under 1200 calories.
2. Drink 8 glasses or more of water a day.
3. The body burns muscle before fat.
4. Don't eat after a certain time of day.
5. Always eat breakfast.
6. Cardio burns more fat than weight lifting.
And on, and on.....
I can give you my opinion on all of the above, based on what works for me but that doesn't mean it will work for you.
The best thing you can do is track the results of everything you try. Track how many calories you take in, how much exercise you do and be consistent with your approach to this lifestyle. Then compare the results of your efforts.
Don't be afraid to try different things. You are committed to this for the long haul right? If you are looking for overnight results, you are in for a lot of disappointment. I am not long into this journey myself, but I was looking for fast results when I started this change. I have since come to realize, this is something I will be doing for the rest of my life.
So don't be afraid. Want to see if you will lose weight eating more calories? Eat more calories and track the results!
Or eat less calories, or DON'T drink 8 glasses of water, or DON'T do cardio, or eat at 12 midnight.....
But most importantly, DON'T BE AFRAID TO GAIN A POUND OR TWO OR FIVE WHILE LEARNING YOUR BODY....
From reading these forums and others, it seems a lot of the questions are asked out of fear of gaining a few pounds. For example, the "Should I up my calories" threads. Hell I have posted this myself. Or another good example would be the "I'm stuck what do I do???" threads. I have seen people post this, and they already know the answer. TRY SOMETHING DIFFERENT!!! They are looking for confirmation from others out of fear of gaining a pound or two.
The point is, question everything and accept nothing for truth until you see how it affects YOUR body. Accept your body, know that it is going to be a struggle and that you will have ups and downs and move on. The sooner your accept that and lose the fear to make adjustments, the sooner you will be on your way to a true lifestyle change.
Good luck!!!

dave4d

I've read many different articles from different sites. I've read about many of the myths out there about nutrition, and fitness. Sometimes I think the more I read, the more confused I get. I came to the conclusion that there is either a lot of guess work going on, or some things work for certain body types, somethings work for others. I would love it if the professionals were able to come together on what are actually myths, and what science is correct.

Some questions I have are:

I read on one site that it doesn't matter how much you eat, or when you eat. On another site I read that your body can only process about 30 grams of protein at a time, so it is better to split your meals into smaller portions. Which is correct?

Which produces the greatest hypertrophy, compound lifts, or isolation work? Best rep range? I've read conflicting articles.

Keeping your heartrate in "fat burning Zone"? Strenuous cardio burns muscle? HIIT is best for fat loss?

Ab work will get you a six pack? Ab work is not necessary. Compound lifts will hit give you enough core work?

lykei

I'm almost there with you on this one...but what I do believe works is to eat within 1-2 hours of waking up...whatever it may be orange juice, crakcers, fruit...soemthing...and eat multiple times in the day like 4-6 3 of those being actual meals. I don't think I could stand eating less than 1200 calories a day on purpose but when I have I found that I was more hungry that day and the day after! It comes down to...everyone is different and yes you need to know your own body and what it can tolerate.

unlocke

I have researched the heck out of fitness and nutrition!! I've read everything I can read and talked to nutritionists and trainers. Without fail, every single one of them (spoken or written) have a different opinion and even differing medical "facts" to back up their opinions. This causes so much confusion, therefore causing disappointment and hopelessness, which is why people (myself included) give up on their plans so easily.
The OP is absolutely correct in this statement: find out what works for YOU and do that. There are certain things that are no-brainers like eating enough to sustain yourself, not eating cookies and ice cream all day then wondering why you feel bad or can't lose weight, etc. But most of it is subjectable to the person's experience and body type.
However; I will say that there is a lot to be said for learning from other people's experience. That's why MFP is so great. You can take what someone else has had success with, tweak it a bit to fit your lifestyle, and move on.
Just don't drive yourself crazy trying to find that ONE thing that works for all people, cause it doesn't exist.

tonkabella

Yep it got my attention !!!! I'm not and never have been grossly over weight but ever since I had my first child I have always had to keep a close eye on my weight because I have discovered that it can get out of control far too easily. After years and years trying every conceivable diet on and off the market I have now found what works for me .... right now !!. 30 yrs ago WW worked for me with no exercise. 15 yrs ago running till I drop and counting calories worked. 4 yrs ago SW and Gym workouts worked. In between all of those I have done, Atkins, Gillian Mckeith, Rosemary Connoly and quite a few others all with some successat keeping my weight roughly where I wanted it. Last year after a couple of operations and being imobile for a good few months needed to sort my weight out ... Went back to WW, no good, SW, no good, . .. don't get me wrong the odd stone went and then re appeared as quickly as it went without me changing what I was eating. However I decided this year I would go back to basics... Calories in... Calories out... counting everything that I put in my mouth and staying off processed food as much as possible. After a few months of very slow loss I went back to the gym... and did as much cardio as possible..... not much improvement on what I was already loosing. Read an article on here about strength training so ... hey ho, give it a go !!! Presto !!!! this time around, calorie counting, some cardio but mainly strength training is working and the inches are disappearing at a good rate... scales not recording much of a loss but the clothes are definitely telling a different story.
Like you I agree there is a lot of of info on what not and what to do.... but in the end it is what works for you and in my experience this changes through out your life. What worked for me 30 yrs ago does not work now, what worked for me as recent as 4 yrs ago doesn't work now.
So as you say Listen to your Body and Hear what it is saying.

By the way... your post was a good interesting read. :0)

cedarghost

I've read many different articles from different sites. I've read about many of the myths out there about nutrition, and fitness. Sometimes I think the more I read, the more confused I get. I came to the conclusion that there is either a lot of guess work going on, or some things work for certain body types, somethings work for others. I would love it if the professionals were able to come together on what are actually myths, and what science is correct.

Some questions I have are:

I read on one site that it doesn't matter how much you eat, or when you eat. On another site I read that your body can only process about 30 grams of protein at a time, so it is better to split your meals into smaller portions. Which is correct?

Which produces the greatest hypertrophy, compound lifts, or isolation work? Best rep range? I've read conflicting articles.

Keeping your heartrate in "fat burning Zone"? Strenuous cardio burns muscle? HIIT is best for fat loss?

Ab work will get you a six pack? Ab work is not necessary. Compound lifts will hit give you enough core work?

Lol. Some of the same things I am working on finding out, using my own body as a tool to judge what is right. For me.
For example, I am currently doing HIIT and High Intensity Strength training and tracking body fat. It will be a while before I can compare it to regular lifting and cardio.And I just started making sure I was spreading my protein out!
The point being, it will take a while to see if this works FOR ME, but then I will know regardless of how adamant anyone else voices their opinion.

cedarghost

Like you I agree there is a lot of of info on what not and what to do.... but in the end it is what works for you and in my experience this changes through out your life. What worked for me 30 yrs ago does not work now, what worked for me as recent as 4 yrs ago doesn't work now.
So as you say Listen to your Body and Hear what it is saying.

By the way... your post was a good interesting read. :0)

That's a GREAT point. Even with our own bodies, what works now is subject to change without notice! We have to be comfortable/confident enough to make changes and see where they lead us.

waldo56

I feel that the entire concept of "health food" is a myth.

A diet can be healthy or unhealthy. Individual items cannot be. A McDonalds cheeseburger is just as healty as an apple; neither are healthy or unhealthy. The healthiness or lack thereof of food is utter nonsense.

TheSpicyMermaid

I hate breakfast and water. *grumbles*

SideSteel

First of all I agree that the individual absolutely needs to "find what works" for them.

However, I think that people tend to miss the mark when it comes to "my body is different" statements.

Physiologically, the processes that take place are very similar from person to person, medical conditions aside.
From a preferential standpoint, these things are going to differ greatly and those are the things that are very important to figure out.

I think this is a great article on it:
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/you-are-not-different.html

This doesn't take away from the fact that dietary adherence is at the top of the list, and individual preferences vary a great deal and should be learned/optimized.


I also believe that in the context of forum discussions, "what works for me" tends to get twisted into statements that basically turn into misinformation because someone (just as an example, and I'm possibly not being clear on this) may make a statement about a preferential feature of their diet or training and think that their success stems from that preferential item and not the other necessities that they are also doing.

For instance, someone may come along and say "I got fat because I ate 2 meals per day. When I came to MFP I started eating every 2 hours I started losing weight. Eating frequently boosted my metabolism". When in reality, they started creating an energy deficit by eating less. Eating frequently may make it easier for that individual to eat less, but they could easily mistake the cause of the weight loss as meal frequency when (I would like to think) it's well established that this just isn't true.

I don't mean to go off on a tangent here -- it's just that people can very quickly confuse aspects of dieting that are well within the personal preference category, and confuse them for the small list of things that fall under the "you need to do this" category.

crazyellybean

You really have to do what works for YOU not any one else.... take everything mix it into a bowl, and take out what does not work..

1. Never eat under 1200 calories. - There are many times I eat way less than 1200 calories especially if you include exercise calories

2. Drink 8 glasses or more of water a day. i rarely drink 64oz of water a day

3. The body burns muscle before fat. this I believe is true, they say to always eat something before a workout

4. Don't eat after a certain time of day. I eat when Im hungry

5. Always eat breakfast. Coffee please!

6. Cardio burns more fat than weight lifting. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!

TavistockToad

I feel that the entire concept of "health food" is a myth.

A diet can be healthy or unhealthy. Individual items cannot be. A McDonalds cheeseburger is just as healty as an apple; neither are healthy or unhealthy. The healthiness or lack thereof of food is utter nonsense.

i like it!

IronPlayground

First of all I agree that the individual absolutely needs to "find what works" for them.

However, I think that people tend to miss the mark when it comes to "my body is different" statements.

Physiologically, the processes that take place are very similar from person to person, medical conditions aside.
From a preferential standpoint, these things are going to differ greatly and those are the things that are very important to figure out.

I think this is a great article on it:
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/you-are-not-different.html

This doesn't take away from the fact that dietary adherence is at the top of the list, and individual preferences vary a great deal and should be learned/optimized.


I also believe that in the context of forum discussions, "what works for me" tends to get twisted into statements that basically turn into misinformation because someone (just as an example, and I'm possibly not being clear on this) may make a statement about a preferential feature of their diet or training and think that their success stems from that preferential item and not the other necessities that they are also doing.

For instance, someone may come along and say "I got fat because I ate 2 meals per day. When I came to MFP I started eating every 2 hours I started losing weight. Eating frequently boosted my metabolism". When in reality, they started creating an energy deficit by eating less. Eating frequently may make it easier for that individual to eat less, but they could easily mistake the cause of the weight loss as meal frequency when (I would like to think) it's well established that this just isn't true.

I don't mean to go off on a tangent here -- it's just that people can very quickly confuse aspects of dieting that are well within the personal preference category, and confuse them for the small list of things that fall under the "you need to do this" category.

^This! Very well stated!

LisaLouisiana

Excellent, excellent post! I am well into my weigh loss journey and I'll add one more for you.

7. You MUST eat your exercise calories back.

LoraF83

First of all I agree that the individual absolutely needs to "find what works" for them.

However, I think that people tend to miss the mark when it comes to "my body is different" statements.

Physiologically, the processes that take place are very similar from person to person, medical conditions aside.
From a preferential standpoint, these things are going to differ greatly and those are the things that are very important to figure out.

I think this is a great article on it:
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/you-are-not-different.html

This doesn't take away from the fact that dietary adherence is at the top of the list, and individual preferences vary a great deal and should be learned/optimized.


I also believe that in the context of forum discussions, "what works for me" tends to get twisted into statements that basically turn into misinformation because someone (just as an example, and I'm possibly not being clear on this) may make a statement about a preferential feature of their diet or training and think that their success stems from that preferential item and not the other necessities that they are also doing.

For instance, someone may come along and say "I got fat because I ate 2 meals per day. When I came to MFP I started eating every 2 hours I started losing weight. Eating frequently boosted my metabolism". When in reality, they started creating an energy deficit by eating less. Eating frequently may make it easier for that individual to eat less, but they could easily mistake the cause of the weight loss as meal frequency when (I would like to think) it's well established that this just isn't true.

I don't mean to go off on a tangent here -- it's just that people can very quickly confuse aspects of dieting that are well within the personal preference category, and confuse them for the small list of things that fall under the "you need to do this" category.

Thank you! Very well stated

DanaDark

A lot of it has to do with mathematics as well as generalities.

For example on generalities... its okay for anyone to eat under 1200 in a day here and there. It is not okay for everyone to ALWAYS eat under 1200. Someone that is 4'10" and 80 pounds needs significantly less energy per day than a 6'5" 250 pound body builder. The 1200 number originates here on MFP as a low ball number to ensure they are not actively suggesting someone engage in anorexia. If MFP suggested someone eat 300 calories a day to reach their goals and then developed a host of problems, they'd be able to sue MFP over it.

The fat burning zone for heart rate does indeed burn more fat (as a ratio). BUT, going higher will result in more fat burnt. Basically 60% of 100 is 60 while 50% of 150 is 75. The lower percentage combined with the higher number resulted in a higher result. So if you are working out for a set time period, then the higher intensity workout will be better, but if you work out till a set calorie expenditure is obtained no matter how long it takes, then the lower intensity is better.


These two things I mentioned above are 100% true. The issue is that since people VARY, they will conflict with people's experiences, and thus they experience the whole "don't trust what people say".

There are a lot of half-truths floating around based on other people's misunderstanding of numbers.

cmcorn26

WhEn I have a banana as part of my breakfast I crave sugar and diet pepsi All day, and if I cave in to the cravings it's a downhill spiral. No other fruit for breakfast does that to me. Just learning my body!! So no kore banana at breakfast, they are a supper fruit now!

LisaLouisiana

I feel that the entire concept of "health food" is a myth.

A diet can be healthy or unhealthy. Individual items cannot be. A McDonalds cheeseburger is just as healthy as an apple; neither are healthy or unhealthy. The healthiness or lack thereof of food is utter nonsense.

I'll choose to respectfully disagree with you on this point. While there is some nutritional value in a McDonalds cheeseburger and it will actually provide some nutrients that you can't get from an apple, the apple will do the same and provide some that you can't get from the cheeseburger. The difference, however, is that the apple, does not have additives that are unhealthy for you as that cheeseburger does.

Debbe2

Good thread! Agree, don't be afraid to change it up and vary. Stick with what you like. Be mindful when it comes to nutrition and what you choose to eat. But above all be consistent over time meaning stick with your resolve and drive. Remember why you want to be in better shape or health so that you can continue towards your personal goals.

rwhawkes

When I started on MFP a couple months ago I was overwhelmed by all the opinions and "knowledge" on nutrition as OP outlined in the original post. It became real clear to me real fast that the most opinionated were totally fanatic, usually about heavy lifting. Granted they looked awesome, but at this point that obsession is not for me.

So I've said, "F# it" here are my nutrition rules.
1) Exercise in some manner or another as many days as I can. This might be the gym or if I don't have time, it might be a walk.
2) Try to stay close to the daily calorie goal set by MFP.
3) Log (nearly) everything so I know more or less the calorie balance.
4) Stay away from sweet stuff (cookies, donuts, icecream) as a general rule.

Overarching rule, don't worry. If I stick to the above, it's going to work out. While I haven't lost weight at a rapid pace, it's slowly coming off and this new lifestyle is not too odious at all.

Dave198lbs

Some questions I have are:

I read on one site that it doesn't matter how much you eat, or when you eat. On another site I read that your body can only process about 30 grams of protein at a time, so it is better to split your meals into smaller portions. Which is correct?

Which produces the greatest hypertrophy, compound lifts, or isolation work? Best rep range? I've read conflicting articles.

Keeping your heartrate in "fat burning Zone"? Strenuous cardio burns muscle? HIIT is best for fat loss?

Ab work will get you a six pack? Ab work is not necessary. Compound lifts will hit give you enough core work?

public forums should not be the first choice to find answers for these type of questions....unless you are looking for opinions

SideSteel

I feel that the entire concept of "health food" is a myth.

A diet can be healthy or unhealthy. Individual items cannot be. A McDonalds cheeseburger is just as healthy as an apple; neither are healthy or unhealthy. The healthiness or lack thereof of food is utter nonsense.

I'll choose to respectfully disagree with you on this point. While there is some nutritional value in a McDonalds cheeseburger and it will actually provide some nutrients that you can't get from an apple, the apple will do the same and provide some that you can't get from the cheeseburger. The difference, however, is that the apple, does not have additives that are unhealthy for you as that cheeseburger does.

Unhealthy additives are still a matter of dosage and context. I'm not suggesting that McDonalds cheeseburgers are better than apples and I'm sure the person you are quoting isn't either. The point is that you have to consider the entire diet as a unit before making statements about individual food items.

If I were protein deficient, ate sufficient micros earlier during the day, and had the calorie space, and my only choice was the apple or the cheeseburger, I would take the cheeseburger.

I could paint another scenario in which I'd take the apple.

Context matters.

love4fitnesslove4food_wechange

good post--but not because i agree with your specific views. It's a good post because you're encouraging people to experiment even if it means gaining some weight--that's a trivial price to pay for the greater good.

Zomoniac

The one thing I don't believe:

There is a guaranteed method of anything for anyone.


People are weird. Have a goal. Try a thing to reach it. If it's not working, try another thing. Repeat ad infinitum.

ChitownFoodie

First of all I agree that the individual absolutely needs to "find what works" for them.

However, I think that people tend to miss the mark when it comes to "my body is different" statements.

Physiologically, the processes that take place are very similar from person to person, medical conditions aside.
From a preferential standpoint, these things are going to differ greatly and those are the things that are very important to figure out.

I think this is a great article on it:
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/you-are-not-different.html

This doesn't take away from the fact that dietary adherence is at the top of the list, and individual preferences vary a great deal and should be learned/optimized.


I also believe that in the context of forum discussions, "what works for me" tends to get twisted into statements that basically turn into misinformation because someone (just as an example, and I'm possibly not being clear on this) may make a statement about a preferential feature of their diet or training and think that their success stems from that preferential item and not the other necessities that they are also doing.

For instance, someone may come along and say "I got fat because I ate 2 meals per day. When I came to MFP I started eating every 2 hours I started losing weight. Eating frequently boosted my metabolism". When in reality, they started creating an energy deficit by eating less. Eating frequently may make it easier for that individual to eat less, but they could easily mistake the cause of the weight loss as meal frequency when (I would like to think) it's well established that this just isn't true.

I don't mean to go off on a tangent here -- it's just that people can very quickly confuse aspects of dieting that are well within the personal preference category, and confuse them for the small list of things that fall under the "you need to do this" category.

^^^THIS!! And this is exactly why I come to you with advice.

cedarghost

I don't mean to go off on a tangent here -- it's just that people can very quickly confuse aspects of dieting that are well within the personal preference category, and confuse them for the small list of things that fall under the "you need to do this" category.

Exactly.

WendyTerry420

I totally agree with you on ALL of these OP!

Great post! :flowerforyou:

1. Never eat under 1200 calories. (Netted under 1200 over the weekend, then went 400 over last night)
2. Drink 8 glasses or more of water a day. (I usually drink my water because I like to do it)
3. The body burns muscle before fat. (Not sure where this myth got started)
4. Don't eat after a certain time of day. (Our bodies don't really have internal clocks)
5. Always eat breakfast. (Unless it's the weekend, in which case it's MEGA-breakfast and skipping lunch)
6. Cardio burns more fat than weight lifting. (Seems clear that a decent mix of both is optimal for health; neither is required to burn fat)

djsupreme6

I feel that the entire concept of "health food" is a myth.

A diet can be healthy or unhealthy. Individual items cannot be. A McDonalds cheeseburger is just as healthy as an apple; neither are healthy or unhealthy. The healthiness or lack thereof of food is utter nonsense.

I'll choose to respectfully disagree with you on this point. While there is some nutritional value in a McDonalds cheeseburger and it will actually provide some nutrients that you can't get from an apple, the apple will do the same and provide some that you can't get from the cheeseburger. The difference, however, is that the apple, does not have additives that are unhealthy for you as that cheeseburger does.

Unhealthy additives are still a matter of dosage and context. I'm not suggesting that McDonalds cheeseburgers are better than apples and I'm sure the person you are quoting isn't either. The point is that you have to consider the entire diet as a unit before making statements about individual food items.

If I were protein deficient, ate sufficient micros earlier during the day, and had the calorie space, and my only choice was the apple or the cheeseburger, I would take the cheeseburger.

I could paint another scenario in which I'd take the apple.

Context matters.

yes...sidesteel..this right here..good point

Azdak

First of all I agree that the individual absolutely needs to "find what works" for them.

However, I think that people tend to miss the mark when it comes to "my body is different" statements.

Physiologically, the processes that take place are very similar from person to person, medical conditions aside.
From a preferential standpoint, these things are going to differ greatly and those are the things that are very important to figure out.

I think this is a great article on it:
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/you-are-not-different.html

This doesn't take away from the fact that dietary adherence is at the top of the list, and individual preferences vary a great deal and should be learned/optimized.


I also believe that in the context of forum discussions, "what works for me" tends to get twisted into statements that basically turn into misinformation because someone (just as an example, and I'm possibly not being clear on this) may make a statement about a preferential feature of their diet or training and think that their success stems from that preferential item and not the other necessities that they are also doing.

For instance, someone may come along and say "I got fat because I ate 2 meals per day. When I came to MFP I started eating every 2 hours I started losing weight. Eating frequently boosted my metabolism". When in reality, they started creating an energy deficit by eating less. Eating frequently may make it easier for that individual to eat less, but they could easily mistake the cause of the weight loss as meal frequency when (I would like to think) it's well established that this just isn't true.

I don't mean to go off on a tangent here -- it's just that people can very quickly confuse aspects of dieting that are well within the personal preference category, and confuse them for the small list of things that fall under the "you need to do this" category.

You are correct--science is science and physiology is physiology. "Finding out what works for you" should really just mean learning the facts about how the body works.

People confuse "opinions" with "facts", which is why is seems like there is so much "conflicting" information.

cedarghost

I totally agree with you on ALL of these OP!

Great post! :flowerforyou:

1. Never eat under 1200 calories. (Netted under 1200 over the weekend, then went 400 over last night)
2. Drink 8 glasses or more of water a day. (I usually drink my water because I like to do it)
3. The body burns muscle before fat. (Not sure where this myth got started)
4. Don't eat after a certain time of day. (Our bodies don't really have internal clocks)
5. Always eat breakfast. (Unless it's the weekend, in which case it's MEGA-breakfast and skipping lunch)
6. Cardio burns more fat than weight lifting. (Seems clear that a decent mix of both is optimal for health; neither is required to burn fat)

Hehe. Those were examples of things people may or may nor believe. The point was find out what works for YOU. I could tell which of the above I agree with and which I don't, but my opinion would be based on what works for ME.

WendyTerry420

I feel that the entire concept of "health food" is a myth.

A diet can be healthy or unhealthy. Individual items cannot be. A McDonalds cheeseburger is just as healty as an apple; neither are healthy or unhealthy. The healthiness or lack thereof of food is utter nonsense.